Leaving Thailand for good

[NeverSure]

Maybe if I was skint Thailand would be cheaper due to housing and utilities. I have no debts so no house payment and my property taxes are about $2k per year if that's like rent from the government. Those taxes do give me first world amenities and cleanliness though. I'd be happy to pay a couple of hundred bucks per month in Thailand is someone would clean the place up, sweep the streets, stop littering and provide quality garbage and recycle pickup every week. How about safe water and roads...

I also have a Ford F150 supercrew 4X4 and I'd probably choke on the price in LOS. I could probably buy a house (for some woman) for the price of that pickup in LOS which is a really strange concept.

I really don't have all that many expenses and consumer items are cheap.

I can't live in LOS as I do in the US because LOS lacks so much in cleanliness and safety. But I really believe I can choose the same lifestyle and do it just as cheaply in the US as in LOS.

Edited March 29, 2015 by NeverSure

[thehelmsman]

Thank You for sharing, seems your favorite hobby is posting on TV about how much better the US is than Thailand. It's not that what you write isn't true but why keep on about it. For some Thailand works,

[SpokaneAl]

I have looked at this extensively,

I love Thailand, love the energy, adventure of new discoveries, smells, sights, love the people

Love my wife's family. and miss them very much when I am not there

but I have come to the conclusion that a full retirement there will not be a option for me,

It is not a decision strictly made on economics, though economics do play a large part in my decision

Thailand is less expensive in some of the things produced there, and labor costs are lower, but other things are imported there as are imported in the US, but because of the scale of economies it is less expensive and in greater quantity and quality in the US

Also the truth of the matter is that, after I retire old age will inevitable bring old age medical issues, and my medical coverage and social support is in the US

So a smaller house in KKC than originally planed is in the works, and plans to maintain a paid for residence in Florida

have not decided yet if we will rent the Florida home , and stay in Thailand until such day as health or other issues cause me to return, or spend six months in Thailand and six in the US

The truth of the matter is that most of us will return, the question is whether it will be standing up or feet first

We are in pretty much identical circumstances, although we are currently retired. We downsized to a townhouse in the states and built a nice home in Thailand.

We spend six months in each and throughly enjoy our lives. At some point in the future old age or perhaps medical issues will require us to make a decision and at this point we feel that when that happens we will finish up life in the US.

Edited March 29, 2015 by SpokaneAl

[Gumballl]

USA has 100 millions unemployed. over 50 %

who want go back there? Europe is not much better.

Wow, do you just make this stuff up?

VIPinThailand is also counting the children under the age of 16.

P.S. For the average TVF forum member... what I have written above is my stab at being sarcastic.

Edited March 29, 2015 by Gumballl

[puukao]

Lasted seven years, came back last fall.

Cost of living is cheaper here,

Huh????

.

Please don't edit my posts. Forum rules require you quote them in their entirety.

You know, this particular misperception is an ongoing argument on TV. And it is usually made by people with mediocre job histories, and/or a miserable existence in their homeland, making retiring to Asia and "enjoying" forty baht meals out, 150 baht massages, and 1000 baht "girlfriends," a good deal.

All the foods I like are available here at no up charge. In Thailand they carry a 300% up charge---even before Villa or Foodland grab their own take.

On Friday, I bought a very nice Chilean Malbec, on sale, for $4.19. That's 125 baht. IN LOS, the same wine was close to 700 baht. I bought an excellent cheese on special, thick smoked bacon for a dollar a pound, and a steelhead trout filet for $4 (fresh, not farmed). That's far less than what I paid at Villa.

My gym does not require a membership, and so has no pesky salesman. It has a flat rate of $15 per month. I, like all members, have a key, making it available 24/7.

When I use UPS or FedEx here, they are reliable and reasonable. Nothing gets stolen, or nailed for extra fees.

When I pay a serviceman here to do work on my vehicle, or my lawnmower, or my plumbing or electric, it is almost always done expeditiously, safely and right, the first time. This, as opposed to going through a series of workers who not only don't get it right, but often make a problem worse.

In LOS, I never had my '65 Honda motorbike running correctly, because the mechanics were incompetent or dishonest. Or both. This increases a tradesman's "bargain" rates considerably, making them no longer a bargain.

One time when I went to pick up my bike after some work, I noticed the original Honda seat was replaced by junk, and my seat was on the bike of the mechanic's buddy. When I pointed this out, they did this: . When I insisted they put it back on my bike, they became confrontational. I had to pay a cop to get my seat back. I don't think I have never had that experience at a Honda bike shop in the USA.

I bought a new gas BBQ last week at Home Depot. Regular cost was $99. On sale for $69. What's a gas BBQ in Thailand? I know the answer: about 10,000 baht for junk. The price goes up from there. The dumbbells I bought in LOS? One there cost as much as six here.

If I buy something at most stores here, there is a no-questions-asked return policy. I have returned to the local Smith's Supermarket, a number of items I found unsatisfactory. Always a smile when handing back my money. As such, I am a loyal customer. In November after returning to the States, I was checking out some groceries, and the bill was fifty-some dollars. I jokingly asked the checker if he had any coupons. He reached in his apron pocket, and swiped one across the scanner, and my bill dropped to $32. This is now a regular occurrence.

Gas where I live is almost half the price it is in Thailand. It is lower in other states.

In Thailand used vehicles carry a ridiculous price. Last week, I bought a '66 Chevy Bel Air. It had sat in an old lady's garage for years, and has 38,000 original miles. I paid $3700 for it. Now I have my eye on a '65, fully restored Chev pickup. $7000. Far less than a used pickup in average condition in Thailand. Both are investments that will never lose me money.

The Asian market I shop in Salt Lake City, actually has lower prices than back at Rhek Thum's "fresh market." And they are the same brands.

Here the tennis courts are free, and in good condition.

Here, cops don't stop me when I'm driving legally, unlike Thailand where they attempt to extort money. And here, Avis doesn't even think of extorting me for a pre-existing scratch, when I return a rental to the airport, just because I speak English.

My dentist here does not try to drill out non-existent cavities, nor pull a cracked tooth that can be repaired (if you have good training), nor spends a mere 15 minutes "cleaning" my teeth. Here it takes a solid hour,and is done right, so I only have to go twice a year rather than every couple of months.

This summer I'm out to buy a piece of land and build a vacation home. It's mine when I'm done, though my wife's name will also be on it. And where we are building, land is cheaper per acre than the rubber tree land where I lived in Rhek Thum. Don't believe me? Do your due diligence and research it, and you'll find my claim holds water.

Most of the nutritional products I take that keep me free of those expensive American doctor bills, are not available in Thailand. The few that are, are substantially lower in price here than in LOS. After feeling like crap the past few years, I am once again healthy and have my vitality back. That has great economic value.

The firearms I buy to go hunting and target shooting are at the very least, 1/3 the price they are in Thailand. The books I read are cheaper when new at the store, and a once-read paperback bought at a garage sale is 10 baht.

The tools I will use to build my house, Makita, Ryobi, and Milwaukee, are much less expensive here in the States. And if they break, the warranty work is done locally and in days. Usually they just hand over a new tool. The building material selection is far more diverse here, enabling both short-term and long-term savings.

Are there exceptions? Are there things cheaper in LOS?

Sure. Instant water heaters, air conditioners, unhygienic meals out, short-time"girlfriends," and massages. There are others, such as contact lenses, but as a whole do not measure up to a genuine savings.

Many items may be cheaper, but are built so cheaply they have a crap service life. Water pumps, clothing, and electrical items are a good example. Speaking of clothing, I bought new Levis last month. On sale, plus a coupon, $22 a pair. Good luck with that in LOS.

Want to retire to a warm climate that has reasonable prices? Try Port Charlotte, Florida. Check out the land and housing prices, and all the free services and discounts for seniors. Thailand does not even come close.

Do not worry, I have quoted everything you said. Salt Lake City does have its share of pollution, and the mormons require about 10% of your salary per week.

http://www.mormon.org/faq/church-tithing

"not so much a matter of dollars as it is a matter of faith..." LOL....LOL.....LOL

There is a membership to join if you want to go to a bar, and everyone there complains about the bad drivers.

The grass may appear to be greener, but remember Brigham Young first went to SLC as they were running from the authorities!!! This is not a good history, and I am concerned about your safety. More so than in Thailand, the LOS.

Mormom versus Buddhism.

Pollution versus Pollution

Bad drivers versus bad drivers

298347389047324982 wives versus 3 bar girls.

mormom culture versus thai culture

english versus thai

stories to tell nobody versus world traveler!!! lol

fake church smiles versus fake smiles

creepy creepy versus expat creepy creepy

Sure, maybe you can get a car fixed "better" in SLC, but only if you are part of the mormon church!!!! Free tennis.....yes, after the kool-aid!!!! LOL

I'm in Park City.....see you Tuesday for bible study!!!!!

Edited March 29, 2015 by puukao

[MJP]

Lasted seven years, came back last fall.

Cost of living is cheaper here, better quality of life, and:

People smile without hoping for anything other than a smile back;

Haven't heard a single dog bark in three months, let alone been attacked by a pack of them;

No burning of plastic;

No loud music, caterwauling as the moon sets, or unbridled exhaust;

Haven't seen one person pick their nose. Nope, not even the person preparing my food ...

Were there good things about my time in Thailand? Sure, but no where near enough to consider living there any longer, let alone dying there.

My wife is joining me in April. We have a bucket list in the first month that includes:

The Grand Canyon- camping and rafting;

Las Vegas- attending a Cirque de Sol show, and, in the casinos, losing money;

Driving north from San Diego through Malibu, sailing to and about Catalina, then taking Hwy 1 up the coast into Washington State and eventually Victoria, B.C. We'll stop at wineries and cheese farms along the way, detouring for camping in Sequoia National Park, and Redwood National Forest. Then Yosemite and back over to the coast ….

Absolutely no way I would consider wasting another precious day of life in LOS.

I couldn't have said it better. Good choice for trips. I have a system for beating the casinos in Lost Wages. Don't gamble, just take advantage of their cheap restaurants and buffets.

On the looong drive up 101 along the Pacific Coast it gets tempting to cut over to Interstate 5 to get really "rolling," but I wouldn't do it. I'd keep going right on up through the Olympic Rain Forest all the way to Port Angeles and catch a ferry to Victoria, Canada.

But that's just me...

I came up 101 from San Clamente (Hearst Castle) to just about Portland and gave in to the temptation. After the sea lions cave it was no different than 5. Don't know about The Olympic peninsula.

The big problem with the Californian part north of Frisco was I was alone and it is not an easy road to drive and sight see at the same time.

As for the cost of living I find it far cheaper here.

By far my favorite part of the World, from SF up Highway 1 and the 101. No where else comes close.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

For those who are talking about dividing your time between Thailand and the U.S., how are you handling your residence in either place for the 6 months or so you're in the other country?

It's kind of hard to rent out most places for short terms usually, and especially to do so on a recurring year after year basis. And, if I have a real home, I'm probably not feeling great about having rental strangers living there for six months, and then coming back to occupy someplace others have been, again and again.

Likewise, not sure I'd like the idea of leaving a home in either the U.S. or Thailand unattended for 6 months or so at a time.

How are you handling those kinds of issues?

[BKKSnowBird]

Seems most guys that are happy returning the US are now married. Thailand is a much better choice than the US if single IMO.

[NeverSure]

For those who are talking about dividing your time between Thailand and the U.S., how are you handling your residence in either place for the 6 months or so you're in the other country?

It's kind of hard to rent out most places for short terms usually, and especially to do so on a recurring year after year basis. And, if I have a real home, I'm probably not feeling great about having rental strangers living there for six months, and then coming back to occupy someplace others have been, again and again.

Likewise, not sure I'd like the idea of leaving a home in either the U.S. or Thailand unattended for 6 months or so at a time.

How are you handling those kinds of issues?

The last time I did a retirement extension I had a live in house sitter who I've known for many years. I always know someone who'd like the house for awhile. I have landscapers and a housekeeper and would leave the utilities on anyway so...

Right now I know a really nice college kid who's studying to be a dentist. He loves to get out of the dorm and stay at my house. There's always someone.

I have a mail forwarding service that I use all of the time. Right now I use them like a mailbox but when I'm out of town they scan the envelopes and I tell them what to open, scan, and email as a .jpg to me. I have every bill I possible can either auto pay or emailing me so I can pay online. I use gmail which follows me.

I want to be free to leave for anywhere, any time so I do my best to keep that possible.

[SpokaneAl]

For those who are talking about dividing your time between Thailand and the U.S., how are you handling your residence in either place for the 6 months or so you're in the other country?

It's kind of hard to rent out most places for short terms usually, and especially to do so on a recurring year after year basis. And, if I have a real home, I'm probably not feeling great about having rental strangers living there for six months, and then coming back to occupy someplace others have been, again and again.

Likewise, not sure I'd like the idea of leaving a home in either the U.S. or Thailand unattended for 6 months or so at a time.

How are you handling those kinds of issues?

Ours was pretty much a three year process. We decided where we wanted to build in Thailand, found a home plan we liked with my sister-in-law doing the negotiating, finding a builder and serving as general contractor.

At that time we also decided to sell our large US house with the yard in the suburbs. We spent some time fixing and painting and sprucing things up. Then we came to Thailand for our first extended stay in our new house.

We bought furniture, a car and a scooter, and extended the Thai house out to create a real kitchen.

When we returned to the states we immediately put our house up for sale and it sold in two days, closing in a month and a half. We purchased a yet to be built townhouse in a new local community within walking distance of downtown. We then moved into an apartment until the fall when we returned to our Thailand home.

We returned to the states the following spring and, within a week of returning, closed on our new home and had our stuff (greatly reduced in quantity) delivered to our new home and settled in.

Our US home has home owners dues which take care of water, sewer, garbage, snow removal and yard maintenance - just the way we like it as part timers.

We had a security system installed and when we leave we turn off the water and disconnect power to the hot water heater. The home heating system remains on, albeit at a lower temperature. We cover the car in the garage and put it on a long term trickle charger.

Our mail is forwarded to our son, and he also becomes the prime contact if the security system is set off. With virtually all bills paid automatically and after opting out of junk mail, it is really amazing how little mail we get. If anything important comes via snail mail he saves it as a pdf and emails the document to us.

Our neighbors are aware of our schedule and have our email address as well as our home phone number, which, when a message is left on it, will generate an email to us.

We used our new Thai home to help resolve some estate planning issues. The home, car and scooter are in our relatives' names and when we eventually stop coming, the stuff will all go to them.

When we leave in the spring to head back to the U.S., my sister-in-law keeps a close eye on our Thai home and we pay my brother-in-law to keep the yard and gardens up - i.e. watering, weed pulling and cutting the grass now and then.

Each year, after I have reserved the round trip plane tickets, I obtain a multi entry non imm o-a visa for the purpose of retirement via the Los Angeles Thai Consulate. While many will say that there are better, cheaper ways, I like the idea that once we get to our Thai winter home, the only thing I need to deal with the local immigration office is over the 90 day reporting. And that takes about five minutes.

We are just finishing up our third winter here and life is good. And while life between the two worlds will continue to be a work in progress, for the most part we are confident that we got things right.

Edited April 10, 2015 by Rooo

[JLCrab]

Lasted seven years, came back last fall.

Cost of living is cheaper here, better quality of life, and:

People smile without hoping for anything other than a smile back;

Haven't heard a single dog bark in three months, let alone been attacked by a pack of them;

No burning of plastic;

No loud music, caterwauling as the moon sets, or unbridled exhaust;

Haven't seen one person pick their nose. Nope, not even the person preparing my food ...

Were there good things about my time in Thailand? Sure, but no where near enough to consider living there any longer, let alone dying there.

My wife is joining me in April. We have a bucket list in the first month that includes:

The Grand Canyon- camping and rafting;

Las Vegas- attending a Cirque de Sol show, and, in the casinos, losing money;

Driving north from San Diego through Malibu, sailing to and about Catalina, then taking Hwy 1 up the coast into Washington State and eventually Victoria, B.C. We'll stop at wineries and cheese farms along the way, detouring for camping in Sequoia National Park, and Redwood National Forest. Then Yosemite and back over to the coast ….

Absolutely no way I would consider wasting another precious day of life in LOS.

I couldn't have said it better. Good choice for trips. I have a system for beating the casinos in Lost Wages. Don't gamble, just take advantage of their cheap restaurants and buffets.

On the looong drive up 101 along the Pacific Coast it gets tempting to cut over to Interstate 5 to get really "rolling," but I wouldn't do it. I'd keep going right on up through the Olympic Rain Forest all the way to Port Angeles and catch a ferry to Victoria, Canada.

But that's just me...

I came up 101 from San Clamente (Hearst Castle) to just about Portland and gave in to the temptation. After the sea lions cave it was no different than 5. Don't know about The Olympic peninsula.

The big problem with the Californian part north of Frisco was I was alone and it is not an easy road to drive and sight see at the same time.

As for the cost of living I find it far cheaper here.

By far my favorite part of the World, from SF up Highway 1 and the 101. No where else comes close.

I lived for almost 2 years outside of Pt Reyes Station off Route 1 where Black Mountain was part of the 1800 acre property I lived on -- an 1840 Spanish land grant (then) still held by the same family.

Now I'm happy to live outside Khon Kaen -- the Iowa of Thailand.

[NeverSure]

By far my favorite part of the World, from SF up Highway 1 and the 101. No where else comes close.

I lived for almost 2 years outside of Pt Reyes Station off Route 1 where Black Mountain was part of the 1800 acre property I lived on -- an 1840 Spanish land grant (then) still held by the same family.

Now I'm happy to live outside Khon Kaen -- the Iowa of Thailand.

That would have been an awesome place to live. Just beautiful.

As for KK being the Iowa of something -

[VIPinthailand]

I go to hotel. I decided to not own anything and be free like a bird. in the USA you can have long term accommodation, hotel with kitchen. problem is the car. USA cost really too much.

I will teach you something today , if materialism is happiness, monk will drive Mercedes and live in a 5 bed rooms house.

they don't, my advice to you is to keep it simple and spend time with people than with materialism.

less you have more you get in return.

keep your cash, stay away from these houses in several countries, it s just more problems, more tax, more maintenance, more travel and you always end up at the same place that is at the end really boring.

Edited March 30, 2015 by VIPinthailand

[SpokaneAl]

I go to hotel. I decided to not own anything and be free like a bird. in the USA you can have long term accommodation, hotel with kitchen. problem is the car. USA cost really too much.

I will teach you something today , if materialism is happiness, monk will drive Mercedes and live in a 5 bed rooms house.

they don't, my advice to you is to keep it simple and spend time with people than with materialism.

less you have more you get in return.

keep your cash, stay away from these houses in several countries, it s just more problems, more tax, more maintenance, more travel and you always end up at the same place that is at the end really boring.

I know of no one, Falang or Thai, who aspires to live the life of a monk. However, if that works for you congratulations, although I have yet to see a monk living in one hotel room after another. Edited March 30, 2015 by SpokaneAl

[BKKBobby]

I can't understand those that say the cost of living is cheaper in the US than in Thailand.

Perhaps if you compare living somewhere in Arkansas, Alabama or thereabouts compared to Bangkok, then perhaps.

But if you compare the cost of living of San Francisco/SF Bay Area compared to a city like Chiang Mai, the cost of living is far, far less in CM

Numbeo is a great resource for COL comparisons.

Numbeo Cost Of Living

I think it goes for nearly all western countries.

About 7000 kr is minimum existence income per month in Sweden.

That is about 26250 Thai Baht.

Thats enough money to have a comfortable lifestyle (not rich) in Thailand. Nothing fancy.

But in Sweden: with 7000kr and no other income or partner that brings income to the household its almost unsustainable and if you rent a condo you most likely need government aid to pay for some part of the rent.

[phutoie2]

Some have left for good, every year at our golf club we have the "absent friends" tournament.

Buried in the Chinese temple grounds or cremated in one of the many wats around here.

They are all fondly remembered on the day.

Apologies for derailing another "cost of living thread"

[VIPinthailand]

I go to hotel. I decided to not own anything and be free like a bird. in the USA you can have long term accommodation, hotel with kitchen. problem is the car. USA cost really too much.

I will teach you something today , if materialism is happiness, monk will drive Mercedes and live in a 5 bed rooms house.

they don't, my advice to you is to keep it simple and spend time with people than with materialism.

less you have more you get in return.

keep your cash, stay away from these houses in several countries, it s just more problems, more tax, more maintenance, more travel and you always end up at the same place that is at the end really boring.

I know of no one, Falang or Thai, who aspires to live the life of a monk. However, if that works for you congratulations, although I have yet to see a monk living in one hotel room after another.

it can take several lives for people to understand that. I know it s not for every body. most people still have an animal thinking and they will need to come back to evoluate spiritually. this is why so many people are attracted by materialism.

if you don't understand that, it 's ok.... not your fault. enjoy your Mercedes and your big house.!

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

When I head back to the U.S. for occasional visits, I don't have family whom I can stay with. So, I end up staying in a modest hotel in a big city that runs around $60 per night. And that's a bargain, considering that common hotel rates in the big city that was my home typically start at around $100 a night and go upward from there.

So, at my bargain place, if I stay for just one week, I'm spending almost as much on the hotel alone as I'd spend on a full month of renting my home in BKK. That (the U.S. hotel tab) is not something I'd be interested in extending for weeks or months at a time, thanks very much.

BTW, monks DO drive Mercedes and live in 5 bedroom (or more) houses. Recent news accounts here on TV tell those stories all too well.

[ramrod45]

People comparing San Francisco to Chiang Mai are not being realistic, and actually rather stupid. You can find a decent apartment in Boise, Idaho for $500 or less, only about 300,000 in the city, fresh clean air, temperate climate. If you buy a small scooter (same as in Thailand), you COL can be approximately the same. (Boise is just one example of many cities). Too many people try to compare their more frugal living in Thailand with a more expensive lifestyle in the US, which is not apples to oranges. I get tired of the generalizations that people in the US (or Europe) are not friendly, but in Thailand they are, and that type of comment often comes from farangs that never even integrate with Thai people besides ordering a beer at a farang oriented pub.

You can live pretty equally in the US these days, and benefit from a far better infrastructure, police that actually "police", quick responses to emergency calls, hospitals that will give you care and not turn you away so you can die in the back of someone's pickup because there isn't an ambulatory system, and you can eat food that wasn't doused with pesticides banned in most of the world.

Thailand is just a place to live....for some, they like it, for others, they might want to expand their horizons. It really doesn't matter if you think someone leaving Thailand is good or bad...it's their decision, not yours, so leave it alone.

[fey]

CLOSED

[rgs2001uk]

Boise, Idaho for $500 or less

Boise Idaho, heck even my American friends cant say anything good about the place.

Must rank up there alongside Gary Indiana, or Ferguson, they tell me Detroit has some cheap property.

Sorry, no thanx not for me.

[MrWorldwide]

Technically, as an Australian I can enter the US for 90-days without a visa - somehow I think that setting myself up in San Diego and crossing to Tijuana and back every 90 days wouldn't have been greeted too warmly by US immigration. Throw in the third largest homeless population in the US - no doubt attracted by the mild climate - and there goes my dream of living life large in the land of the free

(as for fantasies of anything that includes a real Winter, you can keep that all to yourself - that's one of the main reasons I live here)

[VIPinthailand]

Technically, as an Australian I can enter the US for 90-days without a visa - somehow I think that setting myself up in San Diego and crossing to Tijuana and back every 90 days wouldn't have been greeted too warmly by US immigration. Throw in the third largest homeless population in the US - no doubt attracted by the mild climate - and there goes my dream of living life large in the land of the free

(as for fantasies of anything that includes a real Winter, you can keep that all to yourself - that's one of the main reasons I live here)

You can not legally just cross to Mexico and get a new 90 days visa waiver or 6 months under a b1-b2 visa , you need to go back to Europe or back to your country.

USA has no retirement visa, old people are simply unwelcome in the USA, and you need to pay taxes to IRS on your worldwide income if you stay more than 6 months in the US. USA is a no go for many retired "aliens" . Thailand is easier on tourism and retired people. you can even retire at 50 and stay in Thailand the whole year with no question asked.

Edited March 30, 2015 by VIPinthailand

[MJP]

People comparing San Francisco to Chiang Mai are not being realistic, and actually rather stupid. You can find a decent apartment in Boise, Idaho for $500 or less, only about 300,000 in the city, fresh clean air, temperate climate. If you buy a small scooter (same as in Thailand), you COL can be approximately the same. (Boise is just one example of many cities). Too many people try to compare their more frugal living in Thailand with a more expensive lifestyle in the US, which is not apples to oranges. I get tired of the generalizations that people in the US (or Europe) are not friendly, but in Thailand they are, and that type of comment often comes from farangs that never even integrate with Thai people besides ordering a beer at a farang oriented pub.

You can live pretty equally in the US these days, and benefit from a far better infrastructure, police that actually "police", quick responses to emergency calls, hospitals that will give you care and not turn you away so you can die in the back of someone's pickup because there isn't an ambulatory system, and you can eat food that wasn't doused with pesticides banned in most of the world.

Thailand is just a place to live....for some, they like it, for others, they might want to expand their horizons. It really doesn't matter if you think someone leaving Thailand is good or bad...it's their decision, not yours, so leave it alone.

This is how I do it.

I spend perhaps a year in Thailand and when I get sick of it I spend a couple of years in Blighty and get sick of it and then spend a year or two in Thailand until I get sick of it and . . .

So, really the grass is also greener and I never learn. You get the idea.

Right now the Blighty period is on the wane, could use some sunshine, although the crocuses and daffs are out this week so probably hang it out a while longer.

[HeijoshinCool]

Lasted seven years, came back last fall.

Cost of living is cheaper here,

Huh????

.

Please don't edit my posts. Forum rules require you quote them in their entirety.

You know, this particular misperception is an ongoing argument on TV. And it is usually made by people with mediocre job histories, and/or a miserable existence in their homeland, making retiring to Asia and "enjoying" forty baht meals out, 150 baht massages, and 1000 baht "girlfriends," a good deal.

All the foods I like are available here at no up charge. In Thailand they carry a 300% up charge---even before Villa or Foodland grab their own take.

On Friday, I bought a very nice Chilean Malbec, on sale, for $4.19. That's 125 baht. IN LOS, the same wine was close to 700 baht. I bought an excellent cheese on special, thick smoked bacon for a dollar a pound, and a steelhead trout filet for $4 (fresh, not farmed). That's far less than what I paid at Villa.

My gym does not require a membership, and so has no pesky salesman. It has a flat rate of $15 per month. I, like all members, have a key, making it available 24/7.

When I use UPS or FedEx here, they are reliable and reasonable. Nothing gets stolen, or nailed for extra fees.

When I pay a serviceman here to do work on my vehicle, or my lawnmower, or my plumbing or electric, it is almost always done expeditiously, safely and right, the first time. This, as opposed to going through a series of workers who not only don't get it right, but often make a problem worse.

In LOS, I never had my '65 Honda motorbike running correctly, because the mechanics were incompetent or dishonest. Or both. This increases a tradesman's "bargain" rates considerably, making them no longer a bargain.

One time when I went to pick up my bike after some work, I noticed the original Honda seat was replaced by junk, and my seat was on the bike of the mechanic's buddy. When I pointed this out, they did this: . When I insisted they put it back on my bike, they became confrontational. I had to pay a cop to get my seat back. I don't think I have never had that experience at a Honda bike shop in the USA.

I bought a new gas BBQ last week at Home Depot. Regular cost was $99. On sale for $69. What's a gas BBQ in Thailand? I know the answer: about 10,000 baht for junk. The price goes up from there. The dumbbells I bought in LOS? One there cost as much as six here.

If I buy something at most stores here, there is a no-questions-asked return policy. I have returned to the local Smith's Supermarket, a number of items I found unsatisfactory. Always a smile when handing back my money. As such, I am a loyal customer. In November after returning to the States, I was checking out some groceries, and the bill was fifty-some dollars. I jokingly asked the checker if he had any coupons. He reached in his apron pocket, and swiped one across the scanner, and my bill dropped to $32. This is now a regular occurrence.

Gas where I live is almost half the price it is in Thailand. It is lower in other states.

In Thailand used vehicles carry a ridiculous price. Last week, I bought a '66 Chevy Bel Air. It had sat in an old lady's garage for years, and has 38,000 original miles. I paid $3700 for it. Now I have my eye on a '65, fully restored Chev pickup. $7000. Far less than a used pickup in average condition in Thailand. Both are investments that will never lose me money.

The Asian market I shop in Salt Lake City, actually has lower prices than back at Rhek Thum's "fresh market." And they are the same brands.

Here the tennis courts are free, and in good condition.

Here, cops don't stop me when I'm driving legally, unlike Thailand where they attempt to extort money. And here, Avis doesn't even think of extorting me for a pre-existing scratch, when I return a rental to the airport, just because I speak English.

My dentist here does not try to drill out non-existent cavities, nor pull a cracked tooth that can be repaired (if you have good training), nor spends a mere 15 minutes "cleaning" my teeth. Here it takes a solid hour,and is done right, so I only have to go twice a year rather than every couple of months.

This summer I'm out to buy a piece of land and build a vacation home. It's mine when I'm done, though my wife's name will also be on it. And where we are building, land is cheaper per acre than the rubber tree land where I lived in Rhek Thum. Don't believe me? Do your due diligence and research it, and you'll find my claim holds water.

Most of the nutritional products I take that keep me free of those expensive American doctor bills, are not available in Thailand. The few that are, are substantially lower in price here than in LOS. After feeling like crap the past few years, I am once again healthy and have my vitality back. That has great economic value.

The firearms I buy to go hunting and target shooting are at the very least, 1/3 the price they are in Thailand. The books I read are cheaper when new at the store, and a once-read paperback bought at a garage sale is 10 baht.

The tools I will use to build my house, Makita, Ryobi, and Milwaukee, are much less expensive here in the States. And if they break, the warranty work is done locally and in days. Usually they just hand over a new tool. The building material selection is far more diverse here, enabling both short-term and long-term savings.

Are there exceptions? Are there things cheaper in LOS?

Sure. Instant water heaters, air conditioners, unhygienic meals out, short-time"girlfriends," and massages. There are others, such as contact lenses, but as a whole do not measure up to a genuine savings.

Many items may be cheaper, but are built so cheaply they have a crap service life. Water pumps, clothing, and electrical items are a good example. Speaking of clothing, I bought new Levis last month. On sale, plus a coupon, $22 a pair. Good luck with that in LOS.

Want to retire to a warm climate that has reasonable prices? Try Port Charlotte, Florida. Check out the land and housing prices, and all the free services and discounts for seniors. Thailand does not even come close.

Do not worry, I have quoted everything you said. Salt Lake City does have its share of pollution, and the mormons require about 10% of your salary per week.

http://www.mormon.org/faq/church-tithing

"not so much a matter of dollars as it is a matter of faith..." LOL....LOL.....LOL

There is a membership to join if you want to go to a bar, and everyone there complains about the bad drivers.

The grass may appear to be greener, but remember Brigham Young first went to SLC as they were running from the authorities!!! This is not a good history, and I am concerned about your safety. More so than in Thailand, the LOS.

Mormom versus Buddhism.

Pollution versus Pollution

Bad drivers versus bad drivers

298347389047324982 wives versus 3 bar girls.

mormom culture versus thai culture

english versus thai

stories to tell nobody versus world traveler!!! lol

fake church smiles versus fake smiles

creepy creepy versus expat creepy creepy

Sure, maybe you can get a car fixed "better" in SLC, but only if you are part of the mormon church!!!! Free tennis.....yes, after the kool-aid!!!! LOL

I'm in Park City.....see you Tuesday for bible study!!!!!

.

the mormons require about 10% of your salary per week.

There is a membership to join if you want to go to a bar

mormom culture versus thai culture

I'm in Park City.....see you Tuesday for bible study!!!!!

Ahhh, just like that Crabby guy, Gecko123, and Jungle Jim, someone else who has either never even been to Salt Lake City, or was here 30 years ago. Your ignorance precedes you.

Are you serious? You are claiming that non-believers must pay the church a tithe? That we can't get our cars repaired?

Take a look at the March edition of Utah Stories. Here it is online:

http://www.utahstories.com

Park City, for those of you unfamiliar with Utah, is twenty-five minutes up the mountain from SLC. It is widely recognized as a world-class ski resort and Olympic venue, Hollywood celebrity haunt, and home of Robert Redford's Sundance Film Festival. It has less than 8000 inhabitants. There are less than 600 Mormons counted in that population.

It is also home to no less than eight (8), count 'em, eight microbreweries/craft beer pubs (making their own beer) in their small town. And, no, you do not have to pay membership to enjoy a freshly-made ale or lager. Just walk in and take a seat. I was just there this lunchtime, where I met a client, enjoyed some fresh salmon, and a glass of something named Polygamy Porter.

There are even more brew pubs in Salt Lake City proper, none of which require membership. That's from over 30 years ago, Sherlock.

Enjoy your fried rice and Chang tonight, Bud.

P.S. The drivers do indeed suck, but are stills heads above Thai drivers, the second worst in the world.

[NeverSure]

Boise, Idaho for $500 or less

Boise Idaho, heck even my American friends cant say anything good about the place.

Must rank up there alongside Gary Indiana, or Ferguson, they tell me Detroit has some cheap property.

Sorry, no thanx not for me.

Boise is absolutely beautiful, clean and safe. It's in the middle of massive amounts of farmland. Wonderful people there.

Take a look, farmland

City

Edit. Drive around a bit with google earth. It's not fancy, but pristine.

Edited March 31, 2015 by NeverSure

[SpokaneAl]

Lasted seven years, came back last fall.

Cost of living is cheaper here,

Huh????

.

Please don't edit my posts. Forum rules require you quote them in their entirety.

You know, this particular misperception is an ongoing argument on TV. And it is usually made by people with mediocre job histories, and/or a miserable existence in their homeland, making retiring to Asia and "enjoying" forty baht meals out, 150 baht massages, and 1000 baht "girlfriends," a good deal.

All the foods I like are available here at no up charge. In Thailand they carry a 300% up charge---even before Villa or Foodland grab their own take.

On Friday, I bought a very nice Chilean Malbec, on sale, for $4.19. That's 125 baht. IN LOS, the same wine was close to 700 baht. I bought an excellent cheese on special, thick smoked bacon for a dollar a pound, and a steelhead trout filet for $4 (fresh, not farmed). That's far less than what I paid at Villa.

My gym does not require a membership, and so has no pesky salesman. It has a flat rate of $15 per month. I, like all members, have a key, making it available 24/7.

When I use UPS or FedEx here, they are reliable and reasonable. Nothing gets stolen, or nailed for extra fees.

When I pay a serviceman here to do work on my vehicle, or my lawnmower, or my plumbing or electric, it is almost always done expeditiously, safely and right, the first time. This, as opposed to going through a series of workers who not only don't get it right, but often make a problem worse.

In LOS, I never had my '65 Honda motorbike running correctly, because the mechanics were incompetent or dishonest. Or both. This increases a tradesman's "bargain" rates considerably, making them no longer a bargain.

One time when I went to pick up my bike after some work, I noticed the original Honda seat was replaced by junk, and my seat was on the bike of the mechanic's buddy. When I pointed this out, they did this: . When I insisted they put it back on my bike, they became confrontational. I had to pay a cop to get my seat back. I don't think I have never had that experience at a Honda bike shop in the USA.

I bought a new gas BBQ last week at Home Depot. Regular cost was $99. On sale for $69. What's a gas BBQ in Thailand? I know the answer: about 10,000 baht for junk. The price goes up from there. The dumbbells I bought in LOS? One there cost as much as six here.

If I buy something at most stores here, there is a no-questions-asked return policy. I have returned to the local Smith's Supermarket, a number of items I found unsatisfactory. Always a smile when handing back my money. As such, I am a loyal customer. In November after returning to the States, I was checking out some groceries, and the bill was fifty-some dollars. I jokingly asked the checker if he had any coupons. He reached in his apron pocket, and swiped one across the scanner, and my bill dropped to $32. This is now a regular occurrence.

Gas where I live is almost half the price it is in Thailand. It is lower in other states.

In Thailand used vehicles carry a ridiculous price. Last week, I bought a '66 Chevy Bel Air. It had sat in an old lady's garage for years, and has 38,000 original miles. I paid $3700 for it. Now I have my eye on a '65, fully restored Chev pickup. $7000. Far less than a used pickup in average condition in Thailand. Both are investments that will never lose me money.

The Asian market I shop in Salt Lake City, actually has lower prices than back at Rhek Thum's "fresh market." And they are the same brands.

Here the tennis courts are free, and in good condition.

Here, cops don't stop me when I'm driving legally, unlike Thailand where they attempt to extort money. And here, Avis doesn't even think of extorting me for a pre-existing scratch, when I return a rental to the airport, just because I speak English.

My dentist here does not try to drill out non-existent cavities, nor pull a cracked tooth that can be repaired (if you have good training), nor spends a mere 15 minutes "cleaning" my teeth. Here it takes a solid hour,and is done right, so I only have to go twice a year rather than every couple of months.

This summer I'm out to buy a piece of land and build a vacation home. It's mine when I'm done, though my wife's name will also be on it. And where we are building, land is cheaper per acre than the rubber tree land where I lived in Rhek Thum. Don't believe me? Do your due diligence and research it, and you'll find my claim holds water.

Most of the nutritional products I take that keep me free of those expensive American doctor bills, are not available in Thailand. The few that are, are substantially lower in price here than in LOS. After feeling like crap the past few years, I am once again healthy and have my vitality back. That has great economic value.

The firearms I buy to go hunting and target shooting are at the very least, 1/3 the price they are in Thailand. The books I read are cheaper when new at the store, and a once-read paperback bought at a garage sale is 10 baht.

The tools I will use to build my house, Makita, Ryobi, and Milwaukee, are much less expensive here in the States. And if they break, the warranty work is done locally and in days. Usually they just hand over a new tool. The building material selection is far more diverse here, enabling both short-term and long-term savings.

Are there exceptions? Are there things cheaper in LOS?

Sure. Instant water heaters, air conditioners, unhygienic meals out, short-time"girlfriends," and massages. There are others, such as contact lenses, but as a whole do not measure up to a genuine savings.

Many items may be cheaper, but are built so cheaply they have a crap service life. Water pumps, clothing, and electrical items are a good example. Speaking of clothing, I bought new Levis last month. On sale, plus a coupon, $22 a pair. Good luck with that in LOS.

Want to retire to a warm climate that has reasonable prices? Try Port Charlotte, Florida. Check out the land and housing prices, and all the free services and discounts for seniors. Thailand does not even come close.

Do not worry, I have quoted everything you said. Salt Lake City does have its share of pollution, and the mormons require about 10% of your salary per week.

http://www.mormon.org/faq/church-tithing

"not so much a matter of dollars as it is a matter of faith..." LOL....LOL.....LOL

There is a membership to join if you want to go to a bar, and everyone there complains about the bad drivers.

The grass may appear to be greener, but remember Brigham Young first went to SLC as they were running from the authorities!!! This is not a good history, and I am concerned about your safety. More so than in Thailand, the LOS.

Mormom versus Buddhism.

Pollution versus Pollution

Bad drivers versus bad drivers

298347389047324982 wives versus 3 bar girls.

mormom culture versus thai culture

english versus thai

stories to tell nobody versus world traveler!!! lol

fake church smiles versus fake smiles

creepy creepy versus expat creepy creepy

Sure, maybe you can get a car fixed "better" in SLC, but only if you are part of the mormon church!!!! Free tennis.....yes, after the kool-aid!!!! LOL

I'm in Park City.....see you Tuesday for bible study!!!!!

.

the mormons require about 10% of your salary per week.

There is a membership to join if you want to go to a bar

mormom culture versus thai culture

I'm in Park City.....see you Tuesday for bible study!!!!!

Ahhh, just like that Crabby guy, Gecko123, and Jungle Jim, someone else who has either never even been to Salt Lake City, or was here 30 years ago. Your ignorance precedes you.

Are you serious? You are claiming that non-believers must pay the church a tithe? That we can't get our cars repaired?

Take a look at the March edition of Utah Stories. Here it is online:

http://www.utahstories.com

Park City, for those of you unfamiliar with Utah, is twenty-five minutes up the mountain from SLC. It is widely recognized as a world-class ski resort and Olympic venue, Hollywood celebrity haunt, and home of Robert Redford's Sundance Film Festival. It has less than 8000 inhabitants. There are less than 600 Mormons counted in that population.

It is also home to no less than eight (8), count 'em, eight microbreweries/craft beer pubs (making their own beer) in their small town. And, no, you do not have to pay membership to enjoy a freshly-made ale or lager. Just walk in and take a seat. I was just there this lunchtime, where I met a client, enjoyed some fresh salmon, and a glass of something named Polygamy Porter.

There are even more brew pubs in Salt Lake City proper, none of which require membership. That's from over 30 years ago, Sherlock.

Enjoy your fried rice and Chang tonight, Bud.

P.S. The drivers do indeed suck, but are stills heads above Thai drivers, the second worst in the world.

I always enjoyed driving in SLC. Once one has figured out the signage/directional system, it is really easy to get around in the city and to give/receive directions.

I have known, worked and been friends with a number of Mormons and found them to be some of the nicest, most honest, trustworthy people I have ever met. Better, kinder people are hard to find.

[SpokaneAl]

Boise, Idaho for $500 or less

Boise Idaho, heck even my American friends cant say anything good about the place.

Must rank up there alongside Gary Indiana, or Ferguson, they tell me Detroit has some cheap property.

Sorry, no thanx not for me.

Boise is absolutely beautiful, clean and safe. It's in the middle of massive amounts of farmland. Wonderful people there.

Take a look, farmland

City

Edit. Drive around a bit with google earth. It's not fancy, but pristine.

Boise is very nice, as is Coeur d'Alene, ID, which is further north and sits on the magnificent Lake Coeur d'Alene, in the heart of spectacular forests. We swim, run and ride bikes there whenever possible. Edited March 31, 2015 by SpokaneAl

[HeijoshinCool]

Boise, Idaho for $500 or less

Boise Idaho, heck even my American friends cant say anything good about the place.

Must rank up there alongside Gary Indiana, or Ferguson, they tell me Detroit has some cheap property.

Sorry, no thanx not for me.

Boise is absolutely beautiful, clean and safe. It's in the middle of massive amounts of farmland. Wonderful people there.

Take a look, farmland

City

Edit. Drive around a bit with google earth. It's not fancy, but pristine.

Boise is very nice, as is Coeur d'Alene, ID, which is further north and sits on the magnificent Lake Coeur d'Alene, in the heart of spectacular forests. We swim, run and ride bikes there whenever possible.

ImageUploadedByThaivisa Connect1427768267.352413.jpg

.

And the lake fishing in the mountain meadows is pristine and plentiful. The hiking and camping are fantastic, and still uncrowded.

[luk AJ]

Lasted seven years, came back last fall.

Cost of living is cheaper here,

Huh????

.

Please don't edit my posts. Forum rules require you quote them in their entirety.

You know, this particular misperception is an ongoing argument on TV. And it is usually made by people with mediocre job histories, and/or a miserable existence in their homeland, making retiring to Asia and "enjoying" forty baht meals out, 150 baht massages, and 1000 baht "girlfriends," a good deal.

All the foods I like are available here at no up charge. In Thailand they carry a 300% up charge---even before Villa or Foodland grab their own take.

On Friday, I bought a very nice Chilean Malbec, on sale, for $4.19. That's 125 baht. IN LOS, the same wine was close to 700 baht. I bought an excellent cheese on special, thick smoked bacon for a dollar a pound, and a steelhead trout filet for $4 (fresh, not farmed). That's far less than what I paid at Villa.

My gym does not require a membership, and so has no pesky salesman. It has a flat rate of $15 per month. I, like all members, have a key, making it available 24/7.

When I use UPS or FedEx here, they are reliable and reasonable. Nothing gets stolen, or nailed for extra fees.

When I pay a serviceman here to do work on my vehicle, or my lawnmower, or my plumbing or electric, it is almost always done expeditiously, safely and right, the first time. This, as opposed to going through a series of workers who not only don't get it right, but often make a problem worse.

In LOS, I never had my '65 Honda motorbike running correctly, because the mechanics were incompetent or dishonest. Or both. This increases a tradesman's "bargain" rates considerably, making them no longer a bargain.

One time when I went to pick up my bike after some work, I noticed the original Honda seat was replaced by junk, and my seat was on the bike of the mechanic's buddy. When I pointed this out, they did this: . When I insisted they put it back on my bike, they became confrontational. I had to pay a cop to get my seat back. I don't think I have never had that experience at a Honda bike shop in the USA.

I bought a new gas BBQ last week at Home Depot. Regular cost was $99. On sale for $69. What's a gas BBQ in Thailand? I know the answer: about 10,000 baht for junk. The price goes up from there. The dumbbells I bought in LOS? One there cost as much as six here.

If I buy something at most stores here, there is a no-questions-asked return policy. I have returned to the local Smith's Supermarket, a number of items I found unsatisfactory. Always a smile when handing back my money. As such, I am a loyal customer. In November after returning to the States, I was checking out some groceries, and the bill was fifty-some dollars. I jokingly asked the checker if he had any coupons. He reached in his apron pocket, and swiped one across the scanner, and my bill dropped to $32. This is now a regular occurrence.

Gas where I live is almost half the price it is in Thailand. It is lower in other states.

In Thailand used vehicles carry a ridiculous price. Last week, I bought a '66 Chevy Bel Air. It had sat in an old lady's garage for years, and has 38,000 original miles. I paid $3700 for it. Now I have my eye on a '65, fully restored Chev pickup. $7000. Far less than a used pickup in average condition in Thailand. Both are investments that will never lose me money.

The Asian market I shop in Salt Lake City, actually has lower prices than back at Rhek Thum's "fresh market." And they are the same brands.

Here the tennis courts are free, and in good condition.

Here, cops don't stop me when I'm driving legally, unlike Thailand where they attempt to extort money. And here, Avis doesn't even think of extorting me for a pre-existing scratch, when I return a rental to the airport, just because I speak English.

My dentist here does not try to drill out non-existent cavities, nor pull a cracked tooth that can be repaired (if you have good training), nor spends a mere 15 minutes "cleaning" my teeth. Here it takes a solid hour,and is done right, so I only have to go twice a year rather than every couple of months.

This summer I'm out to buy a piece of land and build a vacation home. It's mine when I'm done, though my wife's name will also be on it. And where we are building, land is cheaper per acre than the rubber tree land where I lived in Rhek Thum. Don't believe me? Do your due diligence and research it, and you'll find my claim holds water.

Most of the nutritional products I take that keep me free of those expensive American doctor bills, are not available in Thailand. The few that are, are substantially lower in price here than in LOS. After feeling like crap the past few years, I am once again healthy and have my vitality back. That has great economic value.

The firearms I buy to go hunting and target shooting are at the very least, 1/3 the price they are in Thailand. The books I read are cheaper when new at the store, and a once-read paperback bought at a garage sale is 10 baht.

The tools I will use to build my house, Makita, Ryobi, and Milwaukee, are much less expensive here in the States. And if they break, the warranty work is done locally and in days. Usually they just hand over a new tool. The building material selection is far more diverse here, enabling both short-term and long-term savings.

Are there exceptions? Are there things cheaper in LOS?

Sure. Instant water heaters, air conditioners, unhygienic meals out, short-time"girlfriends," and massages. There are others, such as contact lenses, but as a whole do not measure up to a genuine savings.

Many items may be cheaper, but are built so cheaply they have a crap service life. Water pumps, clothing, and electrical items are a good example. Speaking of clothing, I bought new Levis last month. On sale, plus a coupon, $22 a pair. Good luck with that in LOS.

Want to retire to a warm climate that has reasonable prices? Try Port Charlotte, Florida. Check out the land and housing prices, and all the free services and discounts for seniors. Thailand does not even come close.

Do not worry, I have quoted everything you said. Salt Lake City does have its share of pollution, and the mormons require about 10% of your salary per week.

http://www.mormon.org/faq/church-tithing

"not so much a matter of dollars as it is a matter of faith..." LOL....LOL.....LOL

There is a membership to join if you want to go to a bar, and everyone there complains about the bad drivers.

The grass may appear to be greener, but remember Brigham Young first went to SLC as they were running from the authorities!!! This is not a good history, and I am concerned about your safety. More so than in Thailand, the LOS.

Mormom versus Buddhism.

Pollution versus Pollution

Bad drivers versus bad drivers

298347389047324982 wives versus 3 bar girls.

mormom culture versus thai culture

english versus thai

stories to tell nobody versus world traveler!!! lol

fake church smiles versus fake smiles

creepy creepy versus expat creepy creepy

Sure, maybe you can get a car fixed "better" in SLC, but only if you are part of the mormon church!!!! Free tennis.....yes, after the kool-aid!!!! LOL

I'm in Park City.....see you Tuesday for bible study!!!!!

.

the mormons require about 10% of your salary per week.

There is a membership to join if you want to go to a bar

mormom culture versus thai culture

I'm in Park City.....see you Tuesday for bible study!!!!!

Ahhh, just like that Crabby guy, Gecko123, and Jungle Jim, someone else who has either never even been to Salt Lake City, or was here 30 years ago. Your ignorance precedes you.

Are you serious? You are claiming that non-believers must pay the church a tithe? That we can't get our cars repaired?

Take a look at the March edition of Utah Stories. Here it is online:

http://www.utahstories.com

Park City, for those of you unfamiliar with Utah, is twenty-five minutes up the mountain from SLC. It is widely recognized as a world-class ski resort and Olympic venue, Hollywood celebrity haunt, and home of Robert Redford's Sundance Film Festival. It has less than 8000 inhabitants. There are less than 600 Mormons counted in that population.

It is also home to no less than eight (8), count 'em, eight microbreweries/craft beer pubs (making their own beer) in their small town. And, no, you do not have to pay membership to enjoy a freshly-made ale or lager. Just walk in and take a seat. I was just there this lunchtime, where I met a client, enjoyed some fresh salmon, and a glass of something named Polygamy Porter.

There are even more brew pubs in Salt Lake City proper, none of which require membership. That's from over 30 years ago, Sherlock.

Enjoy your fried rice and Chang tonight, Bud.

P.S. The drivers do indeed suck, but are stills heads above Thai drivers, the second worst in the world.

yeah Polygamy Porter is from Epic Brewery, i know the owner, great guy, it is also partly thanks to me he launched a beer called " Brainless Belgian" later changed to just "brainless" Was many times in SLC as every place there are some +++ but living there iso Thailand? Not for me.