Thai editorial: Where to draw the line for foreign visitors

[claffey]

You'd think that tourist revenue and 30 years of doing it would leave Thailand with some understanding and knowledge of how to look after its guests so they come back.

Guess the new generation in charge are even dumber than the last..... if thats possible

Thai people are very good at looking after the majority of tourists, which just happen to be...Thai.. Don't underestimate the importance of domestic tourism. There are 64 million Thais and they all love to go bai Tiaw!! Many posters here arrogantly assume that Western Tourists are the most important and that Tourism, itself, is the main industry in Thailand. Rubber, Rice, concrete , electrical goods, clothes etc are the main industries. Tourism is more important in terms of global reputation...

[madmitch]

You'd think that tourist revenue and 30 years of doing it would leave Thailand with some understanding and knowledge of how to look after its guests so they come back.

Guess the new generation in charge are even dumber than the last..... if thats possible

Thai people are very good at looking after the majority of tourists, which just happen to be...Thai.. Don't underestimate the importance of domestic tourism. There are 64 million Thais and they all love to go bai Tiaw!! Many posters here arrogantly assume that Western Tourists are the most important and that Tourism, itself, is the main industry in Thailand. Rubber, Rice, concrete , electrical goods, clothes etc are the main industries. Tourism is more important in terms of global reputation...

By banning eating on the beaches in Phuket they have automatically alienated themselves from the majority of domestic tourists!

[micmichd]

Be able to make yourself understandable to at least one Thai, better: a Thai family or community.

[kovaltech]

I wish they would remove the beach chairs at more places.

In general most tourists would be happy about that.

Because right now there are 10 times more chairs than tourists and the whole place looks like a garbage belt and it's impossible to walk on the beach.

It looks very much like a fabricated story to me - fabricated by those in the beach chair business.

in case of the beach chair struggle, the tourist where not allowed to bring their own chairs to the beach and there where no chairs at all...

[micmichd]

In TVF, tourists complained about the "beach chair Mafia", and police stopped it.

Now they complain again.

Farangs should at least be able to make a precise statement about what they actually want, and don't misuse Thai police as their nannies.

I read the "private beach chair issue" was already solved, so what's this all about again?

[Christie Paul]

It’s a very interesting article, not because it contains anything substantive, but because it is indicative of a view, a perspective that foreigners are a negative influence.

Serious propagandists know that the kindling which augments a raging fire of lies must contain some truth. The truth is that there are many tourists that behave badly on all kinds of levels. It doesn’t matter where you go on this planet, a certain percentage of visitors to any place behaved badly and don’t respect local customs.

To give the appearance of some balance, the article does mention the fact that tourism is important. So there’s the balance in place. Really?

Then we are treated the minutia of detail of how disgusting tourists are. Filthy toilet habits, the airing of women’s unmentionables and the beach chair fiasco!

Thailand’s international reputation has been hit very hard. As a destination it used to evoke images of fun loving charming people, beautiful scenery, business opportunities and the emergence of a Southeast Asian hub of modernity.

But too many murders, scams, bureaucratic red tape, scams, corruption, scams, the cigarette police, scams, the urine test police, scams, dual pricing and did I mention the general proliferation of scams, are now what too many people associate with Thailand.

Instead of a drive to urgently clean the place up and make it more attractive - they have decided to double down on policies and practices that further augment its fall from international perceptions of being a place worth investing time and money.

Instead it seems they are going to troll out the customs and etiquette superiority card. And that will work for a while, particularly as the place attracts lower quality visitors. And as economic reality bites, they will then begin to eat each other - but in a very well behaved and superior way.

Edited February 18, 2015 by Christie Paul

[marko kok prong]

So if they want the tourists to behave more like Thai's,maybe the tourists could start by tossing garbage everywhere.

[micmichd]

The problem is, that many tourists do this anyway, and mostly expect Thai people to pick up their garbage.

[Cats4ever]

When in Rome is out of fashion, but should it be? Wise visitprs should adapt reasonably. I think Thais are generally pretty adaptable also. With enough non Romans, even the Romans change over time.

Beach chairs; are they a European thing? My memory of the beach is stretching out on your towel on the sand, when you are not in the water.

[wow64]

I can smell a tourist crackdown perhaps a ban.

Tourist cause so much trouble.

Yesterday I read that one foreigner had bombed Siam Paragon.

[micmichd]

Beach chairs are an international habit now, Thais also use them.

The hypocrisy of many Farangs is simply that they tend to treat the natives as stupid slaves.

[BeforeTigers]

True, but that O.W. Holmes quote was about violence,
not getting your panties in a bunch at the mere sight of someone elses'.

Edited February 18, 2015 by BeforeTigers

[micmichd]

O.W. Holmes' statement was about the limits of privacy, I guess.

From Farang point of view he's right.

Implication:

you have to do everything yourself within the reach of your hands, eg pick up your own litter. If you're too lazy for this, then you give up the privacy of your panties.

[Balance]

It has been my observation that Thais beleive very strongly that the way they do things is the correct way, and the only way. Anyone who wants something else, outside of what is "right" is labeled as fussy. The ice in the beer is a trite example, but illustrates the point. I would guess that 95% of Americans and Europeans do not put ice in a glass of beer. But for some reason, wait staff almost anywhere automatically puts ice in the beer. You have to be paying close attention and tell them not to, and the further proplem, very few understand, "no ice, please, therefore no one asks either. One of the first phrases I learned was, "mai nam kang, khrap." It seems that no one is paying attention nor is any training being done. I have found that the upscale resorts (e.g. Rai Lai), these problems do not exist.

It is also true that in all of the major tourist areas of the world the industry pays close attention to their customers and they conform to their customers' expectations. Western businesses live by the rule, "the customer is always right." This way of thinking is simply foreign to Thai culture. Signs on toilets, illustrations on how the toilet is used, largel signs about noise. Oh, by the way, the signs have to be in the languages spoken by the cusotmers, not Thai. Recorded messages on trains, etc in those languages would also help.

O.K. I have stopped pissing in the wind. Good luck everyone.

Edited February 18, 2015 by Balance

[bassman]

I agree with the article, when in a foreign country respect local customs. A lot of tourist these days are coming from countries that were not part of the world that could afford to travel on vacation before and are not "worldly". Added to this are folks from all nations that lack good manners. Good on Thailand and travel agents to give a pamphlet or brief on customs and traditions before people arrive here on what might be their first trip outside their home country.

[micmichd]

Guess it would be a horror to many Farang tourists to Thailand:

1. Keep away from Thai ladies' underwear.

[jaywalker]

"However, each country has its own unique rules and customs, some of which seem alien to foreigners."

The problem with Thailand is that the rules:

-1- Are not enforced, maybe enforced, sometimes only enforced during a "Crackdown".

-2- The rules change more often than most folks change their underwear.

I'd say lack of any consistency of the rules is what is alien to foreigners who come from countries that don't require a coup every half a decade or so.

[IAMHERE]

Farang should pay for a day license to place a chair on the beach, similiar to a day ticket to ride the BTS.

[Thai at Heart]

Its a very interesting article, not because it contains anything substantive, but because it is indicative of a view, a perspective that foreigners are a negative influence.

Serious propagandists know that the kindling which augments a raging fire of lies must contain some truth. The truth is that there are many tourists that behave badly on all kinds of levels. It doesnt matter where you go on this planet, a certain percentage of visitors to any place behaved badly and dont respect local customs.

To give the appearance of some balance, the article does mention the fact that tourism is important. So theres the balance in place. Really?

Then we are treated the minutia of detail of how disgusting tourists are. Filthy toilet habits, the airing of womens unmentionables and the beach chair fiasco!

Thailands international reputation has been hit very hard. As a destination it used to evoke images of fun loving charming people, beautiful scenery, business opportunities and the emergence of a Southeast Asian hub of modernity.

But too many murders, scams, bureaucratic red tape, scams, corruption, scams, the cigarette police, scams, the urine test police, scams, dual pricing and did I mention the general proliferation of scams, are now what too many people associate with Thailand.

Instead of a drive to urgently clean the place up and make it more attractive - they have decided to double down on policies and practices that further augment its fall from international perceptions of being a place worth investing time and money.

Instead it seems they are going to troll out the customs and etiquette superiority card. And that will work for a while, particularly as the place attracts lower quality visitors. And as economic reality bites, they will then begin to eat each other - but in a very well behaved and superior way.

I agree.

Someone made a loo dirty and someone hung out their smalls to dry. And this makes the bizarro headline?

Its nothing. They want tourists in their house for the money but expect them to conform.

Well, this is a bit like going to visit grumpy auntie May in half term. After a few visits people stop going because its just too much like hard work.

25 mn tourists and 2 headlines. Hardly a horrendous issue and yes you are right. More aimed at moaning about cultural superiority and a refusal to conform to stupidity than anything else.

Why can't a person carry their own chair to a beach? Why? Why must there be zero chairs?

This is not the same as having 10k empty chairs sitting permenantly.

[cup-O-coffee]

Dear Nation...

Water attracts its own level. Period!

C.O.C.

[Thai at Heart]

I agree with the article, when in a foreign country respect local customs. A lot of tourist these days are coming from countries that were not part of the world that could afford to travel on vacation before and are not "worldly". Added to this are folks from all nations that lack good manners. Good on Thailand and travel agents to give a pamphlet or brief on customs and traditions before people arrive here on what might be their first trip outside their home country.

A chair on a beach represents disrespecting Thai culture. Right ho.

[mathias67]

I wish they would remove the beach chairs at more places.

In general most tourists would be happy about that.

Because right now there are 10 times more chairs than tourists and the whole place looks like a garbage belt and it's impossible to walk on the beach.

It looks very much like a fabricated story to me - fabricated by those in the beach chair business.

I am against the removal of beach chairs completely but as I said to a Thai friend who operates a beach chair area the number of operators should be reduced. If you have a block chairs they should be back a minimum of 5m from the sea and a gap of at least 20m between one operator and the next as this would give people plenty of area to walk along the beach and a nice big gap between operators for those who do not want the services of the beach chair operators. For me I want a beach chair and umbrella to stop me from burning to a crisp and also if I stay for the day I can get a drink and something to each. The problem for me is not having people operating on the beach but the high number of those doing. Cut the number of operators by half and there will be plenty of room for all.

[spidermike007]

"High-profile cases of tourist misbehaviour pose a dilemma for Thailand...More and more travellers are ignoring the admonishment to fit in "

Yes. Where does Thailand draw the line for foreign tourists, and how can they fit in better?

A bit difficult to behave properly as the Thais do, since foreigners can't do business in Thailand. Thus preventing them from being like Thais and unable to run Jet Ski shops that charge for damages not caused by the user. They can't drive taxis and rip off customers on the fares. Can't enslave people to work on fishing vessels. Can't murder Canadian tourists and be let off until they kill their Thai wife. Can't get away with having their sons kill English couples and blame it on Burmese.

Yes, it is quite a dilemma I'd say.

Might i suggest you take a break and leave the country for a while? Nothing like a little fresh perspective to make you feel good about where you live!

[mathias67]

I have a hard time imagining that a protest over beach chairs in any way, shape, or form is equivalent to the trail of destruction, dirt, filth, disorder, and chaos left from Chinese tourists.

Yet the Thai tourism authority is now actively promoting tourist from China and these are people who add very liitle to the Thai economy. They come on package tours which included hotel full board,coach trips around the area and spend little or nothing in the local shop and bars. The only people earning money out of them are the hotels and tour operators.

But where ever you come from respect the country you are visiting and try your very best to observe that countries way of life. Those who come to get drunk every night and feel having a punch up makes for a good time then arrest them, stamp there passport with a two year ban on entering the country and send them back on the next plane home. The airlines will oblige by changing their flight departure from that on their return ticket

[MRH1959]

Just like back home where I would love to see a graph graph table drawn up over who caused an accident I.E. Age, sex, nationality.

I wonder which 'people' are complaining the most in these 'tourist' issues. Can we get a table that shows, Age, Sex, Nationality of complainants.

Bets are in for ............. at the top!

[RigPig]

Ahhhh the beach chair fiasco.

The original intention was to get rid of the illegal businesses operating on public land and taking over. Fair enough. The original consensus after that was people could bring their own if that´s what they wished, fair enough.

Then the police decided no one could use chairs or umbrellas, why? (nothing in it for them?).

Then because the beach chair mafia cried foul they decided to regulate it with 10% of the beach being used by approved vendors, oh well I guess if we have to.

Now it has become no none can use a chair or umbrella unless it´s in the 10% area, whether you will have to use one rented by a vendor in that area or not know one seems to know as they haven´t / don´t know what to do themselves.

It is slowly going back to square one !!!

[ExPratt]

"No one can deny that tourism makes a huge contribution to the economies of countries like Thailand, which do their best to draw as many visitors as they can"

Spending as little as possible in Tourist resorts/areas on infrastructure and the environment

[micmichd]

Maybe they make experimental rules and regulations now sometimes, but I can see a clear line in it. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Thailand's not only got a problem with Farangs in this country, Thailand's also got an image problem in Farang mass media, at least in the "Yellow Press"

Pattaya's top for that, there's still that image in Europe that Pattaya's the biggest brothel in the world. No use to deny it, this myth is still there. And many young women from the Issan suffer from that. If they want to visit their boyfriends in a country like Germany, they get hustled by German bureaucrats with so much hidden suspicion that some of them yell at the counter of German embassy "I am NOT a prostitute!"

Then you have these Farangs in Thailand that treat Thai women like sex monkeys. And when back home, they tell everyone that ALL massage and bar girls in Pattsya are in fact prostitutes who rip off the poor innocent Farangs.

It would be a good idea to refuse passports from Farangs that live on welfare and perhaps never worked in their lives.

[SoFarAndNear]

Okay.. when in Rome, do as Romans do. Then maybe charge foreigners the same as they charge Thais....maybe tourists would be more willing to adapt.

[Laughing Gravy]

After going on and on about quality tourists such as the Chinese Thailand has had a reality check. First the TAT has to gets its own house in order, stop two tier pricing and scams.

They should also realise that not everyone comes to see every temple in the cities and often you have 'sexy bars' you get sex pests.

Then a little bit of training for the Thais who are involved in the tourism industry like customer service, cultural differences. As an example bringing all the food out together and now one plate at a time every 5 minutes.

As for the tourists themselves , yes I agree information should be available to them on certain things. Whilst it may be cool to walk around showing your beer belly off it maybe inappropriate to do so, lets say at Chatujak Market (which I have seen often)

But I do think Thais often 'want their cake and eat it'. As an example the ludicrous law of not getting a beer or alcohol from 2pm-5pm (unless in large quantities) Start treating tourist like responsible adults and they hopefully will behave like one.

There is not one person I know who has come here to Thailand and said that's a great idea stopping people having a drink (buying from the shop) from 2pm to 5pm. The TAT need to be more accommodating if they expect the tourists who spend money to come back to Thailand. They can always announce like they do, how many more tourists have come each year. But they don't mention that many are Korean, Chinese, Indians who are hardly big spenders and often stay together, eat the food from their country and contribute little to the economy but the TAT don't tell you that bit.