How much truth to Thailand's bad reputation?

[tuonsai]

I'd like to hear the opinions of expats living in Thailand at least half a year on this, so please only respond if you fit that category.

So let's face it, Thailand has a bad reputation going around now. Everyone who I talk to, and this has been numerous people over the last 5 years has basically told me the same things, as if all of them were reading from the same script. In fact I have never met a single person, who has told me Thailand is an unqualified awsome place, which they will say about much poorer countries in a second.

So if you wish to deny this, don't bother because I can't believe you.

The general consensus I hear is as follows: Thailand is no longer what it used to be, the Thais have grown up and the tourist industry has gotten out of hand. Many Thais are simply fed up with foreigners, in fact a lot of them don't want us there. All they want is our money, and that's why they put up with us. In truth they don't respect us. They don't want us learning their language, taking their jobs, etc.

I personally don't buy this in its entirety, I've been to Thailand on many short visits, which I always enjoy, and the overwhelming experience was positive. I've had many genuine friendly encounters.

However, on some occasions and in some places I have definitely felt a resentment and unfriendliness towards me, which took me by surprise since I travel in Asia and have never experienced this in other countries.
In addition Thailand was the place where I felt like everyone is trying to rip me off cutthroat because I'm just another stupid farang.So my overall opinion about Thailand is extremely ambivalent.

I'm considering a move there from Cambodia, so my question is,
for those of you living there, what's your opinion, how serious is this resentment of foreigners,
and has it stabilized? Does it affect your daily lives, do you sometimes feel like you're not wanted there?
Do you see a backlash against foreigners coming in the future or do you see thai-foreigner relations improving ?
And finally, if you've lived in more than one city, did you find one city or the other worse or better in this regard.

Thanks

[ukrules]

However, on some occasions and in some places I have definitely felt a resentment and unfriendliness towards me, which took me by surprise since I travel in Asia and have never experienced this in other countries.
In addition Thailand was the place where I felt like everyone is trying to rip me off cutthroat because I'm just another stupid farang.So my overall opinion about Thailand is extremely ambivalent.

Where abouts in Thailand were you ?

Edited February 18, 2015 by ukrules

[tuonsai]

However, on some occasions and in some places I have definitely felt a resentment and unfriendliness towards me, which took me by surprise since I travel in Asia and have never experienced this in other countries.

In addition Thailand was the place where I felt like everyone is trying to rip me off cutthroat because I'm just another stupid farang.So my overall opinion about Thailand is extremely ambivalent.

Where abouts in Thailand were you ?

I've experienced this in different places, once by a girl selling chicken in Chiang Mai, another time in Phuket when I just wanted to sit down at for a beer at a girlie bar,

another time at a hotel in Bangkok. Travelling throughout Southern Thailand literally everywhere the price wasn't displayed they tried to overcharge me to pay 2-10 times what the local price was. The rudeness was relatively rare, but it did happen and not once, and these people were downright rude to me for no reason. If you add all my trips together I've probably spent a month in Thailand and clearly recall three seperate instances of suprising rudeness, in contrast I've spent over a year and a half in Cambodia and cannot recall a single instance.

Others tell me the same. A guy who lived in Chiang Mai for 5 years and speaks Thai just told me he no longer speaks Thai when he goes there, because he feels the Thais resent him speaking their language. Another guy I met, just left Thailand because the police harrassment targeting foreigners in downtown Bangkok, making them take public urine test etc, was the last straw for him.

Edited February 18, 2015 by tuonsai

[koo wallety tourist]

take it more as a reflection of yourself and the places you chose to visit and shop.

Edited February 18, 2015 by koo wallety tourist

[richard_smith237]

It mostly depends on your exposure... i.e. where and with whom you have contact with and how you behave.

Sometimes the moaning on ThaiVisa.com is a little over the top and I wonder why those posters visit or live here. Sometimes people come online to vent, but in doing so fail to apply balance in their posts (which of course is only natural when someone is annoyed or been hard done by).

Someone can live here for 10 years without issue, but the one day they face a negative experience its written about and discussed - this is out of balance for if these issues commonly discussed were encountered regularly by everyone there would be far fewer foreigners and expats living here.

That said, some of the negative topics outline area's where we can be a little more observant and vigilant to protect ourselves - this could be said of any country we choose to visit or live in.

When balancing the pros and cons - the positive aspects of Thailand outweigh the negative.

This forum would fail to exist if the negative aspects were strong enough to prevent foreigners living here and visiting.

I've never felt unfriendliness or resentfulness towards me, but then I'm neither unfriendly or resentful of those around me.. again its about attitude.

[benalibina]

Seeing through the veneer....yes I know not all/everybody...

[ExPratt]

I think there is a mutual lack of respect. made worse by TATs habit of combining Tourist numbers with sums of Money. In my opinion giving the impression that they are only interested in Tourists for one reason , Money.

I live in a quiet part of Thailand and we sometimes go to Pattaya to see old friends and I play 7s football in Phuket once a year. I really notice the different attitude of Thai's in the tourist areas. Where possibly because of Farang behavior the Thais seem to look at tourist with a kind of contempt and only tolerate their presence for the money they make from them

People who come here just to get shit faced and pull women don't do the farangs image much good , but that's what many come for and I'm sure we've all had our day

I have no problem living here apart from the normal annoyances when trying to get things done , but I find the Tourist areas awful

[balo]

It's mostly the impression you get through the media that will stick to you , in my neighborhood there's not much change, life is normal if you're a Thai and not working in the tourist industry . And they like foreigners , if not just for a laugh.

So my impression is the same as it was 5 years ago , except when you visit the tourist places like Pattaya or Phuket, the friendliness is not what it used to be.

Edited February 18, 2015 by balo

[MJP]

When I'm in Thailand I tend to live on TVF from the comfort of my (actually the kids own it) veranda . . . in the morning . . . and then the rear patio in the afternoon.

I feel no ambivalence towards me in Makro or Home Shop which are the only other two places I ever visit apart from the garden centre where I'm made most welcome.

No idea about the rest of the place, not interested.

[mca]

how serious is this resentment of foreigners

On a day to day basis the vast, vast majority of Thais don't give us a second thought. They're too busy getting on with their own lives.

On occasion I've met some foreigners who say stuff like "Thais hate us" etc. and after 5 minutes in their company I have to commend the locals for their astuteness. They don't hate us mate. They hate you.

Over the course of my long time here naturally I've encountered Thais who obviously don't like westerners but on the whole they've either treated me pretty well or with complete indifference.

[BKKdreaming]

If you only watch TV , read the scandal papers ,listen to talk radio and read Thai Visa

you would never go to........USA , UK , OZ , NZ, France and lots of other places......

play the odds , 2-3 people get killed on the Thai islands , but 100k plus people went there.....

increase your safety odds , Do not be the drunken idiots you see on YouTube etc ,

Do not walk around with gold and that knock-off Rolex to impress the thiefs in any country

If you could not get away with the BS you do at home why do you think its OK in Thailand , or Spain , or Mexico etc

Shit happens everywhere , TV and the newspapers need to fill in the space between adverts , PREFECT MATCH

and look both ways before crossing the street

[shirtless]

I think attitudes to westerners have changed , its not all bad yet it could be much better, its a pretty accurate assessment from the OP.

[Thian]

Overcahrging is very common, they also do it to other Thai. Just walk to the back/top floor/basement of any market or mall and there things are cheaper and vendors more kind.

If not then go to another mall/market.

Looks are very very important, also if you can speak thai or not. If you got a big camera around your neck, bottle of water in hand, backpack, sandals then sure you will pay extra.

[kinmaew]

I lived in LOS for a year and been going there for 20 years.

Last trip I think I have about had it, been everywhere had a great time, but now prices are really up and I just cant be bothered any more with the place. I might need a break for a while but have no intention of going back anytime soon. I find Thais rude towards foreigners quite unlike the Indonesians and Filipinos who are very polite. I would not dream of setting up shop there with the military dictatorship they have now things would have to drastically change.

[bluebluewater]

"So if you wish to deny this, don't bother as I can't believe you"

Dude, you just wanna hear what you wanna hear!

Have a nice life.

[sdanielmcev]

I live in Sedate City, so I may not be a good example. As a rule, I don't find Thais rude. I have been told on more than one occasion that they do not like being seen as a sex tourist destination. And the joking that goes with it. From the internet and such.

[chrisinth]

In my case, 18 years of living here could be turned on it's head because of a 2 second angry glance or a 20 second confrontation with some teenager gangster wannabe.

If i was weak willed enough for this to happen. Which I'm not.

If i believed all that the global media stated about Thailand, mostly through second or third party accounts, that also could change my viewpoint. But it won't.

OP, some advice. Forget about asking questions such as in this thread because very few of the replies are going to concur (dependent on where the posters live in Thailand) and you will end up more confused than you apparently are at the moment. Spend an extended holiday here and find out for yourself.

Oh, i would also change the group of people that you are currently listening to at the minute as well........................

[Baerboxer]

I lived in LOS for a year and been going there for 20 years.

Last trip I think I have about had it, been everywhere had a great time, but now prices are really up and I just cant be bothered any more with the place. I might need a break for a while but have no intention of going back anytime soon. I find Thais rude towards foreigners quite unlike the Indonesians and Filipinos who are very polite. I would not dream of setting up shop there with the military dictatorship they have now things would have to drastically change.

Prices have risen in the past too - as they do in all countries.

It's not a haven for cheap 5 star service, booze and women that some seem to fondly go on about. Nor was it ever really. Costs and prices were lower in the past, and the exchange rates often more favorable. 25 years ago I was a regular business visitor to Thailand. When I compare my salary levels, cost of living rises in my own country, Thailand compares favorably. The halcyon days of 10 or so years ago when the GBP was 71-73 to the baht are gone. But I can still have a lovely meal out with my wife, at a good class restaurant of Asian or Western cuisine for considerably less than the UK.

I've been to the Philippines many times over the same period and staff in hotels are really friendly. Not so for all those out on the streets, the ones looking for prey to rob, untrustworthy taxi drivers, etc. Far more dangerous than Thailand IME. Most expat Filipinos I know were always concerned for your safety if you said you were visiting their home country.

Nothing has really changed much for me since the caretaker PTP regime was removed; other than the random bombings and shootings of those protesting against that regime have stopped and the streets are clear of protesters. Pray tell, what do you think has changed so drastically?

[Baerboxer]

In my case, 18 years of living here could be turned on it's head because of a 2 second angry glance or a 20 second confrontation with some teenager gangster wannabe.

If i was weak willed enough for this to happen. Which I'm not.

If i believed all that the global media stated about Thailand, mostly through second or third party accounts, that also could change my viewpoint. But it won't.

OP, some advice. Forget about asking questions such as in this thread because very few of the replies are going to concur (dependent on where the posters live in Thailand) and you will end up more confused than you apparently are at the moment. Spend an extended holiday here and find out for yourself.

Oh, i would also change the group of people that you are currently listening to at the minute as well........................

Your life could be turned around just as easily in some parts of the UK, US, Aussie, Eastern Europe etc etc.

[DLock]

Your post answers your own question.

"Thailand is no longer what it used to be, the Thais have grown up and the tourist industry has gotten out of hand. Many Thais are simply fed up with foreigners, in fact a lot of them don't want us there. All they want is our money, and that's why they put up with us. In truth they don't respect us. They don't want us learning their language, taking their jobs, etc."

The tourist areas are awash with money and walking ATM's. There is zero unemployment and the Thai's don't have to try to hard to make money, so why bother with the niceties. Simply move on to the next chump that just arrived with a wide eyed stare and slack jaw agape at the "awesomeness".

People who live away from these areas will have a very different opinion to the ones that do.

I lived in Phuket for 6 years, and no doubt it changed for the worse and continues to go down hill fast...Chiang Mai suffers few of these problems.

Edited February 19, 2015 by DLock

[oneday]

Like everything in this world "tuonsai" nothing is absolute. IMO, what you say here...

"The general consensus I hear is as follows: Thailand is no longer what it used to be, the Thais have grown up and the tourist industry has gotten out of hand. Many Thais are simply fed up with foreigners, in fact a lot of them don't want us there. All they want is our money, and that's why they put up with us. In truth they don't respect us. They don't want us learning their language, taking their jobs, etc."

Is absolutely true in tourist cities and probably the strongest in BKK and Pattaya and Phuket. But of course this does not apply to all Thai people in these cities. The tourist industry is certainly out-of-hand with respect to the Chinese. Many Thais do not like falang and yes they love our money and often think we are stupid if giving a large tip. No they do not respect us and many think we are slow and stupid. I see that attitude directly at me everyday. Even my GF, whom I have a great relationship with, is reluctant to help me learn Thai, but mostly that's just because she has no patience with anything.

I will be happy to return to the US early 2016...goodbye Thailand after 6 years.

[thrilled]

Been coming or living in Thailand since 1971. Maybe some Thai's aren't happy with farangs.And farangs can't get average Thai jobs.I could go on and on and on.Over all Thailand is as good A place as any to put yourself.

[pluto_manibo]

Yes, attitudes have changed for the worse. If you live a secluded life and limit interaction with the outside world or through your significant other, then you might not see it. If you immerse yourself in daily local living and interact with your environment, you will definitely see the changes. However, I find that most incidents happened from people who didn't know I spoke Thai and judged me by physical appearances only(white/European). Speaking the language moderately well, after twenty years here, has been a double edged sword. Thais are not shy in sharing their contempt and prejudices, when they assume you will not understand anything. But, it has smoothed out many difficult situations as well.

In the last week I have been the victim of drug fuelled road rage. Had my life threatened, insulted and car damaged for no apparent reason by two young men who were dead set on maiming a foreigner. There was a motorcycle parked in the middle of a small alley and we could not get through, the perpetrators behind us and from an ajoining building came to the open window threateningly, insulted me and then rammed their rusted up sidecar into my vehicle, damaging it. They then proceeded to insult and comeforth violently to pull me out the vehicle. They didn't take time to notice that some people where moving the parked motorbike from the road in front of us and we could not get through..this shocked the people witnessing the incident and traumatised my wife. I have been victim of this before and the only thing to do is to step/drive away from the situation calmly, reassuring them in Thai( this put them off guard and they retreated) that they misunderstood the situation( meanwhile swallowing your pride, the injustice, aggression and damages). Other incidents in the last weeks, have been riding a motorbike from/to the Chonburi Dept. of Motor Vehicles from Pattaya. It seems people deliberately want to push you off the road and knock you off your bike on several occasions, when they realise it is a foreigner riding.

Maybe this is due to the mass influx of tourists coming into the country. We are all seen as one entity, regardless of where we are from and how long we stay here. We must all suffer for the transgressions of others maybe? I have respect and courtesy to all people around me, regardless of their social or economical background. I wish the same could be extended reciprocally. We are all just spacedust!

Edited February 19, 2015 by pluto_manibo

[yellowboat]

The current government is not helping the situation and they will probably make things worse before they get better. Lived all over Bangkok and was very happy. Being ripped off all depends how much you need to trust people in Thailand. If you are smart and independent, you will do fine.

Cambodia offers far easier visa regulations, and the people are less jaded than Thais. Many people play Cambodia off of Thailand and reside in both. It is possible to find two apartments, on in each country for around US$300 a month TOTAL. Now with all the foreigners being shown the door in Thailand, short term residences are cheaper than ever, so you may not even bother with a lease and pay as you go. Friend found a place in Siem Reap for US$70 a month. It is a great town too.

Just do not allow yourself to be seduced in Thailand or else where for that matter, Good luck !

[kennyro]

There must be some truth in the saying "birds of a feather flock together". I have only been in Thailand 3 years but all of my friends are positive and so pleased they are here, and like me feel better treated and happier than they were in their various homelands. The few that expected to live as they did in their homelands are gone - but some just enjoy living in their self inflicted misery.

Would another Asian country be better to live - as the Thai say -"up to you"

[blazes]

No matter where you live, attitudes to immigrants (or foreigners) are always mixed. In UK, one tends to be anti-Bulgarian/Romanian/Polish (depending on which nationality has recently invaded), or if you are living in Paris, you probably resent all those North Africans from the former colonies. If you live on the west coast of USA or Canada you probably don't have too many nice things to say about all those HK Chinese who got out in the 1990s.

And so it goes....

[KhnomKhnom]

I am in my eleventh year CONTINUOUS living in Thailand. American, married legally and proudly to good Thai woman.

I discount immediately:

-grumpy Brits/Aussies burned out alcoholics.

-people who drop in and become instant expurts.

-men who were too ignorant to evaluate relationships early on.

-kneejerk opinions that take standards somewhere else and falsely and ignorantly apply them to Thailand.

Beyond that, OF COURSE, Thailand has changed, got Internet, etc. Too many people have formulated an idealized paradise image of Thailand as a place where they can come and be excused of any behavior and be coddled by friendly Thai people who will drag their drunken bodies from under the palm tree near the beach on to their homes and leave their wallets in their pants. This overly idealized image draws foreigners to come to what they think is a land of no responsibilities nor consequences for their dumb foreigner activities and attitudes.

If Thailand were ever that, it is not now. Now foreigners are expected to BEHAVE and pay fair prices instead of walking off with poverty level purchases. So you can expect foreigners to slag on Thailand from their persona thoughtlessl disappointments.

Heck, I resent foreigners here because they are such cultural imperialist snobs related to Thai. I saw the resentment of tourists in Hawaii from people working three crap jobs keeping the hotel pool clean and mopping up vomit. Thai must feel the same sometimes... I think everyone would.

To the questioner, I say, stay in Cambodia and pollute that place with your off balance attitudes. Your type just mucks up a great living situation we who live here and like it as it is and as it evolves realistically.

[Aussieroaming]

If your perspective is that Thailand is bad then that will be your reality. It isn't my reality nor many others

[pmarlowe]

I am in my eleventh year CONTINUOUS living in Thailand. American, married legally and proudly to good Thai woman.

I discount immediately:

-grumpy Brits/Aussies burned out alcoholics.

-people who drop in and become instant expurts.

-men who were too ignorant to evaluate relationships early on.

-kneejerk opinions that take standards somewhere else and falsely and ignorantly apply them to Thailand.

Beyond that, OF COURSE, Thailand has changed, got Internet, etc. Too many people have formulated an idealized paradise image of Thailand as a place where they can come and be excused of any behavior and be coddled by friendly Thai people who will drag their drunken bodies from under the palm tree near the beach on to their homes and leave their wallets in their pants. This overly idealized image draws foreigners to come to what they think is a land of no responsibilities nor consequences for their dumb foreigner activities and attitudes.

If Thailand were ever that, it is not now. Now foreigners are expected to BEHAVE and pay fair prices instead of walking off with poverty level purchases. So you can expect foreigners to slag on Thailand from their persona thoughtlessl disappointments.

Heck, I resent foreigners here because they are such cultural imperialist snobs related to Thai. I saw the resentment of tourists in Hawaii from people working three crap jobs keeping the hotel pool clean and mopping up vomit. Thai must feel the same sometimes... I think everyone would.

To the questioner, I say, stay in Cambodia and pollute that place with your off balance attitudes. Your type just mucks up a great living situation we who live here and like it as it is and as it evolves realistically.

This is the good balanced response in my view for someone who lives and works in Thailand as I have the past 7 years. I have lived and worked on every continent other than South America for the past 40 years and so can make comparisons. On the smaller daily scale, the malcontents are usually those mentioned above. If you are friendly, adaptable and can bring your chi down when things don't go your way, you'll find this a great place to live. On the macro scale you will find nationalism, ultra haters and stupid politics in every other country in the world. So depending on who YOU are, the post above gives good guidance.

[Altalake]

RichardSmith 237 says it all. Agree 100%.