micmichd Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 I've been in Pattaya for 2 years now. The reputation of Pattaya is well known, they say it's full of old men that have sex with young girls. That's perhaps what many old Farangs dream of, but reality tells a different story. Most old expats are simply too old for sex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lahgon29 Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 <script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script> However, on some occasions and in some places I have definitely felt a resentment and unfriendliness towards me, which took me by surprise since I travel in Asia and have never experienced this in other countries.In addition Thailand was the place where I felt like everyone is trying to rip me off cutthroat because I'm just another stupid farang.So my overall opinion about Thailand is extremely ambivalent. Where abouts in Thailand were you ? I've experienced this in different places, once by a girl selling chicken in Chiang Mai, another time in Phuket when I just wanted to sit down at for a beer at a girlie bar, another time at a hotel in Bangkok. Travelling throughout Southern Thailand literally everywhere the price wasn't displayed they tried to overcharge me to pay 2-10 times what the local price was. The rudeness was relatively rare, but it did happen and not once, and these people were downright rude to me for no reason. If you add all my trips together I've probably spent a month in Thailand and clearly recall three seperate instances of suprising rudeness, in contrast I've spent over a year and a half in Cambodia and cannot recall a single instance. Others tell me the same. A guy who lived in Chiang Mai for 5 years and speaks Thai just told me he no longer speaks Thai when he goes there, because he feels the Thais resent him speaking their language. Another guy I met, just left Thailand because the police harrassment targeting foreigners in downtown Bangkok, making them take public urine test etc, was the last straw for him. What you are saying is certainly highly exaggerated and mostly incorrect. I have been living in Chiang Mai for 6 years and I would be a liar if I said that anybody here, including Police and Immigration, have been rude or arrogant to me. I have always been treated in a proper manner. I can hardly speak for Phuket, as I have only spent a week or so there in the last 2 years, but I have never had any difficulties in Bangkok, where I am quite often. It is true that particularly in Bangkok if one is taken for a tourist, prices are by far higher than for Thais, but as soon as one speaks Thai the prices drop to "a Thai price". But isn't it like this in most tourists areas worldwide, particularly in Mideastern and Asian countries? Overall, I really believe that provided we foreigners (or to be more polite, or socially correct "Expatriates") are welcome here in Thailand, PROVIDED we show Thais the respect due to them and their culture. Quite frankly, looking around in Chiang Mai and some other locations, like Khon Kaen, Roiet, Pattaya and others, some of us, expatriates behave and appear in a way they wouldn't dare doing at home. No wonder then that such expatriates are not always treated as welcome...and unfortunately it does happen that in some smaller towns they seem to present a picture of all "Farangs", which is natural. Let us not forget, outside our own countries, all of us are ambassadors of our culture and countries as a whole. I'm not really sure how you put KK and Roi et into the Pattaya basket..Not many farang in either place...if you'd said Udon, then ok..I've lived in Udon for over 2 years in a nice housing estate, with a wife, car and now a baby girl..Never noticed any angst towards me here..People talk a little English due to the 11000 farang living here or near..Always smile and try to joke sometimes with vendors and other Thais I regularly come across.. A couple of attempts to rip me off, with smiles and an apology from the Thai side when pointed out, and a smile and Mai pen rai from me. Police always seem polite here as well when I get pulled over..Even saying goodbye and saluting when the check ups are complete.. Maybe I'm one incident away from writing anti Thai stuff on here..But not yet. Try spending a year in Oz battling bad attitudes from police, bureaucrats, salesman, customs,et al...Maybe change anybodies mind about Thai attitudes to foreigners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khunPer Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 An American friend once told me, when I asked questions about all the bad I heard about New York: »All you hear is true, but it depends on where you stay or walk, and what you do...« Being resident in Thailand for about 10 years and coming regular since 2001 – although my first visit was back in 1987 – I think I will say the same, based on my experience here. I believe all of us farangs have experienced some level of “tourist rip off” with a taxi driver in Bangkok or elsewhere that want to drive without meter only – farang can pay – or overpriced stuff in souvenir boutiques, and overpriced something else; but having said that I also think it’s very much up to how you behave: a smile and being polite can help a lot. I’m extremely happy staying in LoS and do not regret my move, feeling only good together with the “native”, and feel I’m traded (almost) equal. And yes, Thailand has changed in many ways just in the few years I’ve been here, and in other ways it fells like the same as my first visit more than 25 years ago. I think everywhere in the World you will notice changes over a generation, perhaps even a decade. Comparing with my good old Scandinavia home country I feel safer here, and I also feel that the service level is a lot better, including my contact needed with government offices. And also yes, some prices have changed – mostly gone up – but that may also be the same elsewhere if you compare to 10 or 25 years ago. Don’t really know if Thailand is better compared to Cambodia, the same, or worse – presume Cambodia also change a lot at the moment; I’ve not been there since 2007. Just had some friends coming back from Cambodia saying the prices were the same or little higher than in Thailand and that there seems to be more corruption; but again that may depend on the eyes looking. Some Thai Visa posters talks about Visa (extension) for staying long term is easier in Cambodia, and some says that Cambodia today is more like Thailand once was. It may well depend on where in Thailand you settle, what you want; and your age, personal status, and financial situation when it comes to Visa extension or kind of residency. Here in this forum, we also read lots of complaining about Thailand, as well as lots of positive remarks... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micmichd Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 As for Pattaya, there's something else which is not true: Pattaya is *not* a very criminal place. Compare Pattaya to Hamburg, I think it's a fair comparison. Then look at Reeperbahn or Grosse Freiheit, and compare that to South Pattaya or even Walking Street. Yes, sometimes you get ripped off in Pattaya. But in Hamburg St. Pauli, you will always get ripped off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 I think lot of it is due to understanding more about your surroundings. When you jump off the plane for the first time you think wow everything is so cheap, beautiful girls want to talk to me and Somchai just spoke to me in Thai with a big smile on his face. Fast forward five years and you realise that you were paying double what the locals were paying when you first arrived, the beautiful Thai girl who wants to talk to you has three Western boyfriend's that visit at different times and Somchai was insulting you with a big smile on his face. Thailand is a great country but far from perfect, Thai visa is a good place to vent but some think its solely for Thai bashing. If the positives stop outweighing the negatives then move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berkshire Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 The reputation is well deserved. Every interaction is threaded with the Thai's intent to part me from my money. I've met very few Thais that did not lie to me, or try to borrow money. Most of the men steal and lie. Most of the women cheat and lie. Usually, both are bad parents. If I did not have a significan other, I would leave. However, I'm determined to make a good future for someone that I love. If this relationship were to end, i'd quite likely leave as soon as I could do so. Let's not be politically correct or stupidly polite. Most of us came here short-time for the party. We stayed because we found someone for whom we developed deep affection. Not a love of Thai cullture. Geez, man, go the freak home already. This thread (and posts like this) doesn't really much bother me anymore. If it will keep the whining/whinging, depressing, miserable gits out of Thailand, more power to you guys! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tassie Norm Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Like everything in this world "tuonsai" nothing is absolute. IMO, what you say here... "The general consensus I hear is as follows: Thailand is no longer what it used to be, the Thais have grown up and the tourist industry has gotten out of hand. Many Thais are simply fed up with foreigners, in fact a lot of them don't want us there. All they want is our money, and that's why they put up with us. In truth they don't respect us. They don't want us learning their language, taking their jobs, etc." Is absolutely true in tourist cities and probably the strongest in BKK and Pattaya and Phuket. But of course this does not apply to all Thai people in these cities. The tourist industry is certainly out-of-hand with respect to the Chinese. Many Thais do not like falang and yes they love our money and often think we are stupid if giving a large tip. No they do not respect us and many think we are slow and stupid. I see that attitude directly at me everyday. Even my GF, whom I have a great relationship with, is reluctant to help me learn Thai, but mostly that's just because she has no patience with anything. I will be happy to return to the US early 2016...goodbye Thailand after 6 years. I sincerely hope you enjoy a happy and fulfilling life back in the USA - One day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suradit69 Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 So let's face it, Thailand has a bad reputation going around now. It mostly "goes around" on forums like TV populated by old, cranky, perpetually whining farang. Some people who chose to live here were wearing the fabled rose colored glasses when they made the decision and now, like small children who want a bunch of toys, they quickly become bored and disillusioned and become petulant. Of course, there are some problems in Thailand, just like everywhere else in the world. Try to make an adult, informed decision about shifting here for the long term. Give it a trial for a year or so. If your expectations are realistic and you enjoy yourself during the trial period, you can be happy here long term. If not, then maybe Thailand isn't for you, but don't blame that on Thailand. Thailand is what it is and long may it remain so. Been here around 15 years, the last 8 full-time and I'm still as content as I would be if I had settled anywhere. The most annoying aspect of life here is the constantly whining farang ... but with a little effort they can be avoided most of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nithisa78 Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 In my case, 18 years of living here could be turned on it's head because of a 2 second angry glance or a 20 second confrontation with some teenager gangster wannabe. If i was weak willed enough for this to happen. Which I'm not. If i believed all that the global media stated about Thailand, mostly through second or third party accounts, that also could change my viewpoint. But it won't. OP, some advice. Forget about asking questions such as in this thread because very few of the replies are going to concur (dependent on where the posters live in Thailand) and you will end up more confused than you apparently are at the moment. Spend an extended holiday here and find out for yourself. Oh, i would also change the group of people that you are currently listening to at the minute as well........................ Your life could be turned around just as easily in some parts of the UK, US, Aussie, Eastern Europe etc etc. In any place , any where. The world is not a gated community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBill Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 I don't think Thai attitudes have changed as much as westerners are starting to see it for what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willyumiii Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 So many things to comment on in the OPs post. Here are a few random comments... Thailand has changes and isn't what it use to be. Yes, every place on earth has changed and keeps changing... Most changes are for the better..change is good. Isn't what it use to be....implying that it isn't as good now... Memory is very selective..the older memories get the better they seem... especially for "older folks" who live mostly in the past. How you are treated by Thai people depends a lot on where you are and how you present yourself. If you live in the tourist areas or the "westernized" Thailand, you meet thais who make their living squeezing every baht thay can out of anyone foolish enough to be squeezed. Get away from the hustle and bustle and people are very kicked back and rarely predatory Also keep in mind that the Thai culture expects and enjoys bartering. They enjoy haggling over prices and often ask much more than they expect.. Some fools from non bartering cultures pay the asking price and get skinned! It's recommended that out start by offering half of the asking price and work your way to a reasonable price for there. It's fun for both you and the Thais when you get good at it! Thailand is not for everyone! The "Mai pen rai" or "it doesn't matter" attitude that attracts so many to Thailand can drive you crazy when you learn it applies to safety and responsibility as well. I love i there, but sometimes find myself beating my head against the wall in frustration as well. There are times when I think about checking out Cambodia or Laos to avoid some of the 'Thainess" that is sometimes hard to swallow. No matter where you are, the grass just might be greener over the horizon! Best advice I can give..come to Thailand and try to last a year before making any firm commitments..then decide. It may be your personal hell, heaven, or purgatory Right now..it's purgatory for me..and that's o.k. with me.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapeCobra Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 It is an ancient phenomenon that youth today is worse than it used to be a generation ago. This is caused by aging. Nothing can beat your glorified memories. My formula for Thai-Farang relationship is this: 1. Thais respect Farangs but don't love them. 2. Farangs love Thais but don't respect them. ---------- 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggt Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 You have read the first person accounts from TV posters...you have spoken to numerous people who have told you much the same thing...and you are still not convinced? Please...do come to Thailand and experience the Thai love of foreigners for yourself... Are you from Missouri ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiangraiTony Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Thailand has many friendly people. Those same friendly people would not act friendly if you acted and treated them poorly and with no respect. If you are a joy to be around and you smile you will get back a wonderful experience from most people. Try and avoid the known bad spots, for there are many. If you choose to visit those troubled areas then understand the associated risks that you potentially place on yourself. Many of the things you hear about negativity in Thailand is someone else's experience coupled with their individual perception. I've been coming to Thailand for 3-decades and I can talk to you all day about changes that have taken place. But the reality is that if I did that to you, I would be only living in my own mind. I would in some way be trying to influence your thinking or opinion. So, I will just say this... If you believe you are a decent person and try to understand the Thai people and their culture, always being respectful, you will do well. On the flip side, if you don't have much regard for others, like to get drunk and rowdy, don't adhere to basic rules, dress like a messy person, look for trouble, then I think you will have problems here in Thailand. Good luck and stay positive about your own life. Thailand can sometime be a reminder of how fortunate we as foreigner's really are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaalle Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 (edited) I have done my fare share of complaining on this board, mostly about immigration, but I honestly don't see what is so terrible about Thailand. Some people are killed on some island? There are murders in my safe and cozy home country too, every single week I can read about them if I choose too. And this supposed animosity and hostility Thais feel towards us? Where is it? I have never faced it unless I instigated it by behaving badly in some way (as we all have at some point). I don't speak thai fluently but I can understand enough to be able to hear whats being said about me and its never really been anything even resembling bad. "Thats a big falang!" is not really an insult. Why would the typical Thai, being humble and usually very laid back waste energy "hating" on farangs for no apparent reason, unless of course you have given him/her a reason? I face more animosity and hostility during a week back home just minding my own business on trains and buses than during my whole 6 years here in Thailand. And where are all these thousands of scammers and people out for my money? I haven't met them yet, are they avoiding me perhaps? I dont know. Of course there are bad stuff and bad people, but just make sure you avoid them, seems like people immerse themselves almost willingly in the specific stuff that's bound to have a bad and tragic outcome. Edited February 19, 2015 by Kaalle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balo Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 (edited) Also a lot of foreigners visiting Thailand thinks that Thai people needs money from the tourism to survive , which of course is not true at all . If you look at the industry outside of the tourism , it's really huge and the unemployment rate is low , Thailand don't have to suffer as much as other countries in SEA. Life is good for most Thais , even if the income can be low. As a foreigner you're welcome to visit as lomg as you show respect and try to understand the culture, Edited February 19, 2015 by balo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elVagabundo Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 "The general consensus I hear is as follows: Thailand is no longer what it used to be, the Thais have grown up and the tourist industry has gotten out of hand. Many Thais are simply fed up with foreigners, in fact a lot of them don't want us there. All they want is our money, and that's why they put up with us. In truth they don't respect us. They don't want us learning their language, taking their jobs, etc." I haven't been here too long, but I've been here longer than some. Here's my $0.02. Thailand ain't a third world country mate. It's middle income and the people act as such. I remember on my first night here, I was taken out to a restaurant for dinner. We sat down and had just got our drinks, when I saw a REALLY nice new American SUV pullup with tinted windows. I nearly choked on my beer. My friends asked me what was wrong and I motioned over to the SUV worriedly. Oh boy, they just laughed and laughed. You see, all my experience prior to here was in the "third world". The only people driving SUV's like the one described in the places I've been are corrupt politicians and/or Narcos. I know this is definite generalization, but most/many Thais have nice cars and homes. Even out in the Isaan. People have nice new tract homes, a motorbike and a car/truck in the driveway and there are Big Cs and Tescos galore. Heck, out where I am currently most people don't even have kitchens in their houses. They don't cook. They just get takeout. They do just fine on their own without needing foreigners' money and you can be sure, just as in the USA or Europe, that some Thais won't take too kindly to foreigners taking their jobs. Now, I'm not a huge fan of Thais, but I don't find them all that unfriendly. Just think of their attitude towards you as being the same as that of an American towards a foreign tourist in the USA. They know that tourists bring in money, but they aren't particularly interested in them. They have their own lives to be concerned with. Just because cities like New York bring in TONS of money from tourism doesn't mean that New Yorker's lives revolve around tourist. At the worst, they'll heckle them or try to rip them off, but most of the time they just "nothing" them (ignoring them completely) or they'll just give a friendly hello/make small talk. If you are looking to live life cheaply, at a slightly slower pace, and not to have to give up much of any modern amenities, than this is the place for you. If you are looking for the "place lost in time" sort of feel, you've arrived about 30 years too late. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tocquinio Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 2 places in all of Thailand that I have experienced rude and unfriendly thai people- Phuket and Ban Chiang (Udon Thani).. apart from that I would say that 80%+ are decent people going about their lives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScarpoFongness4U Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Outside looking in from USA I tell people I just returned from Thailand and they mention ladyboys and underage hookers It doesn't matter what I say about the music scene, the restaurants, the mammoth shopping malls, 2 hour massage for $10.00, or 45 minute taxi rides for $7.00 All they reply with is, Ladyboys and Underage sex This image is permanent as it is all ages, male and female Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gk10002000 Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Bad stuff was and is and will be there. Definitely has gotten measurably worse since 2006. But it is far from being the majority thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benalibina Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Outside looking in from USA I tell people I just returned from Thailand and they mention ladyboys and underage hookers It doesn't matter what I say about the music scene, the restaurants, the mammoth shopping malls, 2 hour massage for $10.00, or 45 minute taxi rides for $7.00 All they reply with is, Ladyboys and Underage sex This image is permanent as it is all ages, male and female 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micmichd Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Exactly the same in Germany. Whatever you say, they return this endless loop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatty123 Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 how serious is this resentment of foreigners On a day to day basis the vast, vast majority of Thais don't give us a second thought. They're too busy getting on with their own lives. On occasion I've met some foreigners who say stuff like "Thais hate us" etc. and after 5 minutes in their company I have to commend the locals for their astuteness. They don't hate us mate. They hate you. Over the course of my long time here naturally I've encountered Thais who obviously don't like westerners but on the whole they've either treated me pretty well or with complete indifference. Spot on. There is a 'nob head' factor in every country. Most Thais I've met have been good people. Polite, helpful etc. A few don't even notice you're there (and why should they) and a very small number are nasty pieces of work who can't stand foreigners . My own country (UK) has a higher percantage of 'nob heads' in my opinion than Thailand. Although the comments about 'it ain't what it used to be' ring true. It's more built up in the resorts and visa abuse and right wing policies have made staying in Thailand for lengthy periods a little more unpredictable than it used to be. The politcal situation is still the same as it's always been. An election gets won and the army null and void it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyJazz Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 There must be some truth in the saying "birds of a feather flock together". I have only been in Thailand 3 years but all of my friends are positive and so pleased they are here, and like me feel better treated and happier than they were in their various homelands. The few that expected to live as they did in their homelands are gone - but some just enjoy living in their self inflicted misery. Would another Asian country be better to live - as the Thai say -"up to you" I've been living in Thailand full time for about a year and half and so far it has been a positive experience. I live in a middle class area, similar to the place i would live in my home country. People are mostly nice and helpful. I stopped reading all these horror stories here on TV because first they never ever happen to people I know and then I now tend to believe that people involve in these stories were somehow looking for trouble. I agree that "birds of a feather flock together". I now realized that I've been "vetted" before being allowed in certains circles, people too intimately associated with the bar scene are not welcomed. To be honest mostly because the wives wouldn't allow but as usual with all women decision there is also some common sense invovled. I hope this will help people who intend to settle in Thailand in the near future. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berkshire Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 There must be some truth in the saying "birds of a feather flock together". I have only been in Thailand 3 years but all of my friends are positive and so pleased they are here, and like me feel better treated and happier than they were in their various homelands. The few that expected to live as they did in their homelands are gone - but some just enjoy living in their self inflicted misery. Would another Asian country be better to live - as the Thai say -"up to you" I've been living in Thailand full time for about a year and half and so far it has been a positive experience. I live in a middle class area, similar to the place i would live in my home country. People are mostly nice and helpful. I stopped reading all these horror stories here on TV because first they never ever happen to people I know and then I now tend to believe that people involve in these stories were somehow looking for trouble. I agree that "birds of a feather flock together". I now realized that I've been "vetted" before being allowed in certains circles, people too intimately associated with the bar scene are not welcomed. To be honest mostly because the wives wouldn't allow but as usual with all women decision there is also some common sense invovled. I hope this will help people who intend to settle in Thailand in the near future. You two nailed it. There are plenty of well-adjusted expats in Thailand and they're doing just fine. But the vocal minority (read miserable gits) tend to dominate discussions such as this. I say let them drown in their misery...or leave. Either one is fine by me. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micmichd Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Yes, the majority of Thai people don't llinke the bar girl scenes in tourist centers too much. Maybe even the girls that work there are not really happy with this. The bar girl scene is changing, though, Pattaya is now a place for elder Farangs. The myth of 'Sin City' still remains, though. ScarpoFongness4U has pointed out the problem perfectly: The myth of a place full of ladyboys and teenie sex is perpetuaed in Western Countries. Guess it needs some real hard work and courage to change this Western prejudice about Thailand. Farangs that try will face bashing their intimacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berkshire Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Outside looking in from USA I tell people I just returned from Thailand and they mention ladyboys and underage hookers It doesn't matter what I say about the music scene, the restaurants, the mammoth shopping malls, 2 hour massage for $10.00, or 45 minute taxi rides for $7.00 All they reply with is, Ladyboys and Underage sex This image is permanent as it is all ages, male and female So you're saying that "most" people in the US believes this way? If so, would that include you? What I mean is if you are one of those folks that believes Thailand is about ladyboys and underage hookers, why did you come to Thailand in the first place? Not having a dig at you, but it would seem to me that you yourself did not have this image of Thailand, otherwise you may not have come. I find this sort of attitude to be more prevalent in Euro folks. Most Americans couldn't tell the difference between Thailand and Taiwan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Somtam Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Exactly the same in Germany. Whatever you say, they return this endless loop. Same in Holland : Thailand Naailand 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stradavarius37 Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 The truth is always somewhere in the middle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micmichd Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 The truth is: Thailand is developing, but the myth about Thailand remains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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