Obama aims to show Islam, Western communities can coexist

[webfact]

Obama aims to show Islam, Western communities can coexist
By JOSH LEDERMAN

WASHINGTON (AP) — In the fight against violent extremism, President Barack Obama argues the U.S. has one thing going for it that Europe doesn't: a long tradition of warmly embracing its immigrants, including Muslims.

With the Islamic State group spreading and terrorists gaining strength in the Mideast and Africa, Obama has sought to use this week's White House summit on violent extremism to urge the world to broaden its response far beyond military interventions. U.S. airstrikes have managed to blunt some of the militants' gains in Iraq and Syria, but they don't address the extreme ideologies that underpin deadly groups such as IS, al-Shabab and Boko Haram.

During the summit's closing session Thursday at the State Department, Obama urged delegates from 65 countries to "confront the warped ideology" espoused by terror groups, particularly efforts to use Islam to justify violence.

"These terrorists are desperate for legitimacy and all us have a responsibility to refute the notion that groups like ISIL somehow represent Islam, because that is a falsehood that embraces the terrorist narrative," Obama said, using an acronym to refer to the Islamic State.

The president urged Arab nations in particular to take steps to quell sectarian violence and boost economic and educational opportunities that could provide young people in particular options beyond joining terror groups.

But even in the U.S., not all Muslim-Americans feel like full members of American society, and security experts warned against assuming that the U.S. is impervious to those who seek to recruit and radicalize.

Since the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, the U.S. has largely been spared the terrorist assaults that have hit cities in Denmark, Belgium and France, growing out of radical interpretations of Islam. In the weeks since the Charlie Hebdo newspaper shootings in Paris, Obama and other U.S. figures have portrayed the U.S. as being at a lower risk. After all, America is known as the "Great Melting Pot," where minorities of all stripes are made to feel at home.

"In the U.S., you can be 100 percent American and 100 percent anything else. In Europe, you have to reduce the percentage of anything else to be more European," said Ahmed Younis, a prominent Muslim-American leader participating in the summit. "People burn and destroy what they perceive to not be their own. They do not burn and destroy what they perceive to own."

Speaking Thursday morning, Secretary of State John Kerry told participants: "There's been a silly debate in the media in the last days about what you have to do. You have to do everything. You have to take the people off the battlefield, who are there today."

"But you're kind of stupid if all you do is do that and you don't prevent more people from going to the battlefield," he said.

Ample evidence suggests that Muslims in America do feel more integrated into society than those living in Europe. Often marginalized and relegated to poorer neighborhoods in European cities, many Muslim immigrants to the U.S. have flourished as doctors and scientists and in other white-collar professions. Middle-class, predominantly Muslim or Arab-American enclaves have cropped up in places such as Dearborn, Michigan, and Minneapolis, allowing immigrants to carve out their own stories.

"That's the story extremists and terrorists don't want the world to know: Muslims succeeding and thriving in America," Obama said during separate remarks at the summit Wednesday.

There's also reason to believe that sense of successful assimilation has offered a degree of protection against the allure of extremism. In 2011, a Pew Research Center survey of American Muslims found that just 2 in 10 Muslims in the U.S. thought there was a great deal or a fair amount of support for extremism among Muslim Americans. Roughly 80 percent said suicide bombings and other violence against civilians was never justified to defend Islam from its enemies, compared to just 8 percent who said it was sometimes or often justified.

Europe, where many Muslims or their ancestors emigrated from former colonies, is host to a much larger Muslim population. There were about 1,350,000 self-identified Muslims in the U.S. in 2008, the last date for which Census data is available. France, by comparison, has an estimated 5 million Muslims — about 8 percent of the total population. In the U.K., 2011 census data counted about 2.7 million Muslims out of a population of 63.1 million.

But within America's smaller Muslim population, not everyone feels they've been fully embraced by society.

Jamila Nasser, a high school junior, said she rarely sees good news about Muslims in the American media. She doesn't expect a positive reception once she ventures outside of Dearborn, which has elected Arabs and Muslims to many local offices and has one of the largest concentrations of Muslims in North America.

"For being a Muslim American growing up in America, I really don't feel a part of it," she said.

As Islamic State militants have seized control of a major swath of Iraq and Syria, the global community has taken alarm at how alluring the group's brutal ideology has proven for individuals outside the Middle East. U.S. officials have said roughly 20,000 volunteers from around the world have joined IS or other extremist groups fighting in Syria. Of those, about 150 are believed to be Americans, according to the National Counterterrorism Center.
___

Associated Press writers Emily Swanson and Jesse Holland in Washington, Jeff Karoub in Detroit, Steve Karnowski in Minneapolis, Lori Hinnant in Paris and Greg Katz in London contributed to this report.


-- (c) Associated Press 2015-02-20

[NeverSure]

"For being a Muslim American growing up in America, I really don't feel a part of it," she said.

Of course you don't. You stay in your own enclaves, refuse American food, dress like 17th century nomads (lacking the camels) and don't really try to fit in. Even within America, you are separatists.

Take a hard look at other cultures which have immigrated. Other than some identifying skin colors, they have taken up American culture. The Chinese were one of the first (for the 1800's gold mine work) and they excell.

Any ethnic or racial group which stays to itself and has its own culture always feels left out. Imagine that.

[Paulc01]

Muslims thriving in America? I guess so. After all, they seem to be running around all over the White House.

[Steely Dan]

Any deluded opinion that U.S Muslims are more integrated due to the treatment they receive vis Europe is pure baloney. Look at how Sweden bends over backwards to try and placate its Muslims. The explanation is the percentage of Muslims and the Stage of jihad the Muslim minority finds itself in. The 300,000 Muslim immigrants to the U.S last year are a sign the U.S will soon enough reach stage two of 'defensive' jihad from the whining and claims of victimization that characterize stage one.

You have to give high marks for infiltration from the top though. As Emmet Scott remarked about the Persian Empire, there is compelling evidence it was islamicized from the top down.

[canuckamuck]

When are they going to give up the phrase Islamist extremism? The correct term when talking about groups like ISIS would be Islamic purists, or perhaps orthodox Muslims, Maybe even fundamentalist Muslims. Only ISIS is pursuing the full literal interpretation of the Koran. The setting up of a caliphate is a key. Real Islam was dead until the caliphate returned.

ISIS is following the Koran and emulating their prophet as accurately as they are able.

This is a medieval civilization at war with western civilization.

[JockPieandBeans]

Obama aims to show Islam, Western communities can coexist

I think that there is plenty of evidence around the world, that shows Obama is talking out his @rse.

Edited February 20, 2015 by JockPieandBeans

[ezzra]

Obama and the US has it good, when it comes to the Muslim population in the state,

only 0.5% of the US population are Muslims, not the same with many European and

Scandinavian counties with 10-20 % Muslims new comers, most are sympathizes

of the sharia laws and would want to see Islam dominate the world again like back

in the glory days of the Othman empire a 1,000 years ago,

Simply put, most Muslim will not and do not assimilate well, sticking to their ways of

life and frown at anybody free will to live the way they like to live, for them, all non

Muslim are all infidels and thus death is becoming of the non believers....

[sdanielmcev]

Well, Obama needs a new career soon. I guess he's trying out some stand up material.

[Choctastic]

Simply put, most Muslim will not and do not assimilate well, sticking to their ways of

life and frown at anybody free will to live the way they like to live, for them, all non

Muslim are all infidels and thus death is becoming of the non believers....

'Most'? Funnily enough I lived many years near a Muslim Community and no-one called me a non-believer or sought my death. Unless it was the local orchard owner who objected to me scrumping his apples.

[Johnny S]

B. Hussein Obama is a fool and would do anything to please muslims - be careful of your legazy potus...

[i claudius]

Simply put, most Muslim will not and do not assimilate well, sticking to their ways of

life and frown at anybody free will to live the way they like to live, for them, all non

Muslim are all infidels and thus death is becoming of the non believers....

'Most'? Funnily enough I lived many years near a Muslim Community and no-one called me a non-believer or sought my death. Unless it was the local orchard owner who objected to me scrumping his apples.

Just carry on living in your little bubble ,and thinking what you want ,my young nephew still believes there is a father christmas because he gave him a toy when he was in the store last xmas ,but the grown ups know the truth ,it was just a man pretending ,but then most muslims just go their own way and dont even pretend any more.

[ggt]

We have co-exited in the world for years...but in countries where someone other than Muslims dominate the culture and government...there are almost always terrorists to disrupt the peace...killing innocents...in the most despicable manner...

The President means well...but the proof is in recent history...Islamic dissidents all over the world are trying to carvel out their own territories and expel other peoples...

[Mosha]

Now he's perverting America's history.

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/susan-jones/obama-islam-has-been-woven-fabric-our-country-its-founding

[Scott]

I was involved in helping to resettle a large number of refugees from Iraq after the Second Gulf War and the re-invasion of Northern Iraq by Saddam Hussein. This is from the OP and I would have to agree:

Ample evidence suggests that Muslims in America do feel more integrated into society than those living in Europe. Often marginalized and relegated to poorer neighborhoods in European cities, many Muslim immigrants to the U.S. have flourished as doctors and scientists and in other white-collar professions. Middle-class, predominantly Muslim or Arab-American enclaves have cropped up in places such as Dearborn, Michigan, and Minneapolis, allowing immigrants to carve out their own stories.

Of the people resettled the vast majority were settled in the US, with a small number in Europe. I visited many of them (both officially and unofficially) after resettlement. The ones in the US were doing well. At the time, nearly all were employed. With the exception of a few with advanced degrees, most were in low end factory type work. A whole group of them worked at a hog butchering plant in Iowa. Not one family was on welfare or public assistance.

Within a matter of 5 years most had or were in the process of purchasing a home. Very few of them lived even in the same neighborhood, and they were resettled all over the US. I was often treated to dinner at their homes and quite a few had alcohol in the home. A few drank, but sparingly.

The families that I visited in Europe (the two main places were in France and Switzerland) had not fared as well. Even though they had family connections, all of them were on welfare or public assistance. None of them had managed to buy a home or a car and were living in gov't furnished housing. There was little signs of integration.

Such comparisons are anecdotal but noteworthy.

None of the people resettled were very fundamental in their religious views, they were mixed Shia and Sunni, but predominantly Sunni. (There were a few Christians in the mix). They were mostly Kurdish and they were mostly members of large families (I believe the largest family resettled included a father, mother and 22 children -- of which about 8 were young adults). They had good family support and plenty of young people who were anxious and willing to work, even at very low paying jobs.

I am still in contact with many and they continue to do better in the US in general.

[Scott]

An inflammatory post has been removed.

[daveAustin]

President Barack Obama argues the U.S. has one thing going for it that Europe doesn't: a long tradition of warmly embracing its immigrants, including Muslims.

I find that hard to believe when US immigration can't even draw a smile on their face and welcome genuine visitors.

Never been a fan of this wet flower and dross like this just enforces my weary perception of the man. He'll pander and bend over to whoever it suits at any given moment. Do yourselves a favour and get someone in with a pair of stones and with half a brain. But before you go, Mr Obama, if you're that proud of your Muslims, why not do the right thing and invite over your fair share of those from that sh*thole you so easily deride called Europe, we have millions to spare? You see, great swathes were displaced and are pissed at getting turfed out of their homeland from the wars you lot created!

[rgs2001uk]

I was involved in helping to resettle a large number of refugees from Iraq after the Second Gulf War and the re-invasion of Northern Iraq by Saddam Hussein. This is from the OP and I would have to agree:

Ample evidence suggests that Muslims in America do feel more integrated into society than those living in Europe. Often marginalized and relegated to poorer neighborhoods in European cities, many Muslim immigrants to the U.S. have flourished as doctors and scientists and in other white-collar professions. Middle-class, predominantly Muslim or Arab-American enclaves have cropped up in places such as Dearborn, Michigan, and Minneapolis, allowing immigrants to carve out their own stories.

Of the people resettled the vast majority were settled in the US, with a small number in Europe. I visited many of them (both officially and unofficially) after resettlement. The ones in the US were doing well. At the time, nearly all were employed. With the exception of a few with advanced degrees, most were in low end factory type work. A whole group of them worked at a hog butchering plant in Iowa. Not one family was on welfare or public assistance.

Within a matter of 5 years most had or were in the process of purchasing a home. Very few of them lived even in the same neighborhood, and they were resettled all over the US. I was often treated to dinner at their homes and quite a few had alcohol in the home. A few drank, but sparingly.

The families that I visited in Europe (the two main places were in France and Switzerland) had not fared as well. Even though they had family connections, all of them were on welfare or public assistance. None of them had managed to buy a home or a car and were living in gov't furnished housing. There was little signs of integration.

Such comparisons are anecdotal but noteworthy.

None of the people resettled were very fundamental in their religious views, they were mixed Shia and Sunni, but predominantly Sunni. (There were a few Christians in the mix). They were mostly Kurdish and they were mostly members of large families (I believe the largest family resettled included a father, mother and 22 children -- of which about 8 were young adults). They had good family support and plenty of young people who were anxious and willing to work, even at very low paying jobs.

I am still in contact with many and they continue to do better in the US in general.

Sounds like America cherry picked the educated ones with something to contribute (nothing wrong with that) and the dross were sent to Europe, hence the reason they are uneployed and fail to fit in.

Wouldnt imagine there are too many openings for goat herders in Europe

[Scott]

No, there was no cherry picking. All were allowed entry to the US. A few had family and relatives in Europe and they were presented to the countries where they had family. Those countries could say no and in some instances the countries did say no and they were resettled in the US.

How well people do is dependent on a number of factors. All of these refugees were good candidates for resettlement -- all had education and work experience of some sort, at least for the heads-of-household.

Transitioning still has to be done in an orderly fashion.

[arjunadawn]

Any deluded opinion that U.S Muslims are more integrated due to the treatment they receive vis Europe is pure baloney. Look at how Sweden bends over backwards to try and placate its Muslims. The explanation is the percentage of Muslims and the Stage of jihad the Muslim minority finds itself in. The 300,000 Muslim immigrants to the U.S last year are a sign the U.S will soon enough reach stage two of 'defensive' jihad from the whining and claims of victimization that characterize stage one.

You have to give high marks for infiltration from the top though. As Emmet Scott remarked about the Persian Empire, there is compelling evidence it was islamicized from the top down.

This is one of the best posts I have read in a while; right on target. Thank you.

[Publicus]

I was involved in helping to resettle a large number of refugees from Iraq after the Second Gulf War and the re-invasion of Northern Iraq by Saddam Hussein. This is from the OP and I would have to agree:

Ample evidence suggests that Muslims in America do feel more integrated into society than those living in Europe. Often marginalized and relegated to poorer neighborhoods in European cities, many Muslim immigrants to the U.S. have flourished as doctors and scientists and in other white-collar professions. Middle-class, predominantly Muslim or Arab-American enclaves have cropped up in places such as Dearborn, Michigan, and Minneapolis, allowing immigrants to carve out their own stories.

Of the people resettled the vast majority were settled in the US, with a small number in Europe. I visited many of them (both officially and unofficially) after resettlement. The ones in the US were doing well. At the time, nearly all were employed. With the exception of a few with advanced degrees, most were in low end factory type work. A whole group of them worked at a hog butchering plant in Iowa. Not one family was on welfare or public assistance.

Within a matter of 5 years most had or were in the process of purchasing a home. Very few of them lived even in the same neighborhood, and they were resettled all over the US. I was often treated to dinner at their homes and quite a few had alcohol in the home. A few drank, but sparingly.

The families that I visited in Europe (the two main places were in France and Switzerland) had not fared as well. Even though they had family connections, all of them were on welfare or public assistance. None of them had managed to buy a home or a car and were living in gov't furnished housing. There was little signs of integration.

Such comparisons are anecdotal but noteworthy.

None of the people resettled were very fundamental in their religious views, they were mixed Shia and Sunni, but predominantly Sunni. (There were a few Christians in the mix). They were mostly Kurdish and they were mostly members of large families (I believe the largest family resettled included a father, mother and 22 children -- of which about 8 were young adults). They had good family support and plenty of young people who were anxious and willing to work, even at very low paying jobs.

I am still in contact with many and they continue to do better in the US in general.

Sounds like America cherry picked the educated ones with something to contribute (nothing wrong with that) and the dross were sent to Europe, hence the reason they are uneployed and fail to fit in.

Wouldnt imagine there are too many openings for goat herders in Europe

So much of western Europe is so much of a cradle to grave welfare state that immigrants from very different civilizations and societies that relocate to there often get put into dependency because there isn't much opportunity for individual upward mobility and self-advancement.

It's often the case in such societies that the dominance of the public sector of the country creates a socio-economics that stifles creativity, initiative, self-fulfillment. From Greece to Spain to Scandinavia the dependency on government at the cost of the private sector could be considered oppressive, especially and in particular to the foreigner to the near south of Europe.

There are a lot of people in government departments and agencies in western Europe especially who depend on the population being dependent on government hand outs such as housing and welfare support.

[Publicus]

Any deluded opinion that U.S Muslims are more integrated due to the treatment they receive vis Europe is pure baloney. Look at how Sweden bends over backwards to try and placate its Muslims. The explanation is the percentage of Muslims and the Stage of jihad the Muslim minority finds itself in. The 300,000 Muslim immigrants to the U.S last year are a sign the U.S will soon enough reach stage two of 'defensive' jihad from the whining and claims of victimization that characterize stage one.

You have to give high marks for infiltration from the top though. As Emmet Scott remarked about the Persian Empire, there is compelling evidence it was islamicized from the top down.

This is one of the best posts I have read in a while; right on target. Thank you.

Aw, but you say that about almost everyone

[JockPieandBeans]

I was involved in helping to resettle a large number of refugees from Iraq after the Second Gulf War and the re-invasion of Northern Iraq by Saddam Hussein. This is from the OP and I would have to agree:

Ample evidence suggests that Muslims in America do feel more integrated into society than those living in Europe. Often marginalized and relegated to poorer neighborhoods in European cities, many Muslim immigrants to the U.S. have flourished as doctors and scientists and in other white-collar professions. Middle-class, predominantly Muslim or Arab-American enclaves have cropped up in places such as Dearborn, Michigan, and Minneapolis, allowing immigrants to carve out their own stories.

Of the people resettled the vast majority were settled in the US, with a small number in Europe. I visited many of them (both officially and unofficially) after resettlement. The ones in the US were doing well. At the time, nearly all were employed. With the exception of a few with advanced degrees, most were in low end factory type work. A whole group of them worked at a hog butchering plant in Iowa. Not one family was on welfare or public assistance.

Within a matter of 5 years most had or were in the process of purchasing a home. Very few of them lived even in the same neighborhood, and they were resettled all over the US. I was often treated to dinner at their homes and quite a few had alcohol in the home. A few drank, but sparingly.

The families that I visited in Europe (the two main places were in France and Switzerland) had not fared as well. Even though they had family connections, all of them were on welfare or public assistance. None of them had managed to buy a home or a car and were living in gov't furnished housing. There was little signs of integration.

Such comparisons are anecdotal but noteworthy.

None of the people resettled were very fundamental in their religious views, they were mixed Shia and Sunni, but predominantly Sunni. (There were a few Christians in the mix). They were mostly Kurdish and they were mostly members of large families (I believe the largest family resettled included a father, mother and 22 children -- of which about 8 were young adults). They had good family support and plenty of young people who were anxious and willing to work, even at very low paying jobs.

I am still in contact with many and they continue to do better in the US in general.

Sounds like America cherry picked the educated ones with something to contribute (nothing wrong with that) and the dross were sent to Europe, hence the reason they are uneployed and fail to fit in.

Wouldnt imagine there are too many openings for goat herders in Europe

So much of western Europe is so much of a cradle to grave welfare state that immigrants from very different civilizations and societies that relocate to there often get put into dependency because there isn't much opportunity for individual upward mobility and self-advancement.

It's often the case in such societies that the dominance of the public sector of the country creates a socio-economics that stifles creativity, initiative, self-fulfillment. From Greece to Spain to Scandinavia the dependency on government at the cost of the private sector could be considered oppressive, especially and in particular to the foreigner to the near south of Europe.

There are a lot of people in government departments and agencies in western Europe especially who depend on the population being dependent on government hand outs such as housing and welfare support.

7x7 should be along shortly to correct your assumption, especially concerning the UK.

Apparently immigrants in the UK do not qualify for benefits

[Publicus]

I was involved in helping to resettle a large number of refugees from Iraq after the Second Gulf War and the re-invasion of Northern Iraq by Saddam Hussein. This is from the OP and I would have to agree:

Ample evidence suggests that Muslims in America do feel more integrated into society than those living in Europe. Often marginalized and relegated to poorer neighborhoods in European cities, many Muslim immigrants to the U.S. have flourished as doctors and scientists and in other white-collar professions. Middle-class, predominantly Muslim or Arab-American enclaves have cropped up in places such as Dearborn, Michigan, and Minneapolis, allowing immigrants to carve out their own stories.

Of the people resettled the vast majority were settled in the US, with a small number in Europe. I visited many of them (both officially and unofficially) after resettlement. The ones in the US were doing well. At the time, nearly all were employed. With the exception of a few with advanced degrees, most were in low end factory type work. A whole group of them worked at a hog butchering plant in Iowa. Not one family was on welfare or public assistance.

Within a matter of 5 years most had or were in the process of purchasing a home. Very few of them lived even in the same neighborhood, and they were resettled all over the US. I was often treated to dinner at their homes and quite a few had alcohol in the home. A few drank, but sparingly.

The families that I visited in Europe (the two main places were in France and Switzerland) had not fared as well. Even though they had family connections, all of them were on welfare or public assistance. None of them had managed to buy a home or a car and were living in gov't furnished housing. There was little signs of integration.

Such comparisons are anecdotal but noteworthy.

None of the people resettled were very fundamental in their religious views, they were mixed Shia and Sunni, but predominantly Sunni. (There were a few Christians in the mix). They were mostly Kurdish and they were mostly members of large families (I believe the largest family resettled included a father, mother and 22 children -- of which about 8 were young adults). They had good family support and plenty of young people who were anxious and willing to work, even at very low paying jobs.

I am still in contact with many and they continue to do better in the US in general.

Sounds like America cherry picked the educated ones with something to contribute (nothing wrong with that) and the dross were sent to Europe, hence the reason they are uneployed and fail to fit in.

Wouldnt imagine there are too many openings for goat herders in Europe

So much of western Europe is so much of a cradle to grave welfare state that immigrants from very different civilizations and societies that relocate to there often get put into dependency because there isn't much opportunity for individual upward mobility and self-advancement.

It's often the case in such societies that the dominance of the public sector of the country creates a socio-economics that stifles creativity, initiative, self-fulfillment. From Greece to Spain to Scandinavia the dependency on government at the cost of the private sector could be considered oppressive, especially and in particular to the foreigner to the near south of Europe.

There are a lot of people in government departments and agencies in western Europe especially who depend on the population being dependent on government hand outs such as housing and welfare support.

7x7 should be along shortly to correct your assumption, especially concerning the UK.

Apparently immigrants in the UK do not qualify for benefits

You obviously reference one country.

You'd need more so you might want to get up off the floor, straighten up, brush yourself off and get seriously to work not to mention be more careful next time not to fall out of the clown car..

If there are more like Britain you'd have to document it.

[sambum]

Obama aims to show Islam, Western communities can coexist

I think that there is plenty of evidence around the world, that shows Obama is talking out his @rse.

Religion has been the cause of much violence over a few centuries, but one thing stands out like a sore thumb today - Protestants, Catholics, Jews, Buddhists all manage to co - exist (for the most part) without the need bomb and burn each other's houses or churches down. Fire a few Muslims into the mix and bingo! Instant Bonfire Night! And Obama is obviously doing his best to secure votes from all religions! P.S. I'm neither a Democrat or a Republican!

[JockPieandBeans]

Sounds like America cherry picked the educated ones with something to contribute (nothing wrong with that) and the dross were sent to Europe, hence the reason they are uneployed and fail to fit in.

Wouldnt imagine there are too many openings for goat herders in Europe

So much of western Europe is so much of a cradle to grave welfare state that immigrants from very different civilizations and societies that relocate to there often get put into dependency because there isn't much opportunity for individual upward mobility and self-advancement.

It's often the case in such societies that the dominance of the public sector of the country creates a socio-economics that stifles creativity, initiative, self-fulfillment. From Greece to Spain to Scandinavia the dependency on government at the cost of the private sector could be considered oppressive, especially and in particular to the foreigner to the near south of Europe.

There are a lot of people in government departments and agencies in western Europe especially who depend on the population being dependent on government hand outs such as housing and welfare support.

7x7 should be along shortly to correct your assumption, especially concerning the UK.

Apparently immigrants in the UK do not qualify for benefits

You obviously reference one country.

You'd need more so you might want to get up off the floor, straighten up, brush yourself off and get seriously to work not to mention be more careful next time not to fall out of the clown car..

If there are more like Britain you'd have to document it.

That irony bypass that you had, clearly worked.

Well done.

[Publicus]

So much of western Europe is so much of a cradle to grave welfare state that immigrants from very different civilizations and societies that relocate to there often get put into dependency because there isn't much opportunity for individual upward mobility and self-advancement.

It's often the case in such societies that the dominance of the public sector of the country creates a socio-economics that stifles creativity, initiative, self-fulfillment. From Greece to Spain to Scandinavia the dependency on government at the cost of the private sector could be considered oppressive, especially and in particular to the foreigner to the near south of Europe.

There are a lot of people in government departments and agencies in western Europe especially who depend on the population being dependent on government hand outs such as housing and welfare support.

7x7 should be along shortly to correct your assumption, especially concerning the UK.

Apparently immigrants in the UK do not qualify for benefits

You obviously reference one country.

You'd need more so you might want to get up off the floor, straighten up, brush yourself off and get seriously to work not to mention be more careful next time not to fall out of the clown car..

If there are more like Britain you'd have to document it.

That irony bypass that you had, clearly worked.

Well done.

Brits especially have this ongoing thing about irony and Americans.

It's ironic if you know what I mean

We call it unintended consequences which is no less a way to state it than Shakespeare did.

You know, fiction and non fiction might be another way to think of it.

Now that is the real irony of it for sure.

[Steely Dan]

I was involved in helping to resettle a large number of refugees from Iraq after the Second Gulf War and the re-invasion of Northern Iraq by Saddam Hussein. This is from the OP and I would have to agree:

Ample evidence suggests that Muslims in America do feel more integrated into society than those living in Europe. Often marginalized and relegated to poorer neighborhoods in European cities, many Muslim immigrants to the U.S. have flourished as doctors and scientists and in other white-collar professions. Middle-class, predominantly Muslim or Arab-American enclaves have cropped up in places such as Dearborn, Michigan, and Minneapolis, allowing immigrants to carve out their own stories.

Of the people resettled the vast majority were settled in the US, with a small number in Europe. I visited many of them (both officially and unofficially) after resettlement. The ones in the US were doing well. At the time, nearly all were employed. With the exception of a few with advanced degrees, most were in low end factory type work. A whole group of them worked at a hog butchering plant in Iowa. Not one family was on welfare or public assistance.

Within a matter of 5 years most had or were in the process of purchasing a home. Very few of them lived even in the same neighborhood, and they were resettled all over the US. I was often treated to dinner at their homes and quite a few had alcohol in the home. A few drank, but sparingly.

The families that I visited in Europe (the two main places were in France and Switzerland) had not fared as well. Even though they had family connections, all of them were on welfare or public assistance. None of them had managed to buy a home or a car and were living in gov't furnished housing. There was little signs of integration.

Such comparisons are anecdotal but noteworthy.

None of the people resettled were very fundamental in their religious views, they were mixed Shia and Sunni, but predominantly Sunni. (There were a few Christians in the mix). They were mostly Kurdish and they were mostly members of large families (I believe the largest family resettled included a father, mother and 22 children -- of which about 8 were young adults). They had good family support and plenty of young people who were anxious and willing to work, even at very low paying jobs.

I am still in contact with many and they continue to do better in the US in general.

Sounds like America cherry picked the educated ones with something to contribute (nothing wrong with that) and the dross were sent to Europe, hence the reason they are uneployed and fail to fit in.

Wouldnt imagine there are too many openings for goat herders in Europe

So much of western Europe is so much of a cradle to grave welfare state that immigrants from very different civilizations and societies that relocate to there often get put into dependency because there isn't much opportunity for individual upward mobility and self-advancement.

It's often the case in such societies that the dominance of the public sector of the country creates a socio-economics that stifles creativity, initiative, self-fulfillment. From Greece to Spain to Scandinavia the dependency on government at the cost of the private sector could be considered oppressive, especially and in particular to the foreigner to the near south of Europe.

There are a lot of people in government departments and agencies in western Europe especially who depend on the population being dependent on government hand outs such as housing and welfare support.

You do have a point, the Socialist, federalist European state serves its own bureaucracy and appears not to give a damn about its people. Taking the UK as an,example Muslim immigrants seem to do less well than Hindus Sikhs, Chinese, Polish or whatever minority group you would care to mention. This surely filters out the structural problems of the host state leaving the cultural baggage of the immigrants as the main determining factor relating to successful integration.

[Publicus]

I was involved in helping to resettle a large number of refugees from Iraq after the Second Gulf War and the re-invasion of Northern Iraq by Saddam Hussein. This is from the OP and I would have to agree:

Ample evidence suggests that Muslims in America do feel more integrated into society than those living in Europe. Often marginalized and relegated to poorer neighborhoods in European cities, many Muslim immigrants to the U.S. have flourished as doctors and scientists and in other white-collar professions. Middle-class, predominantly Muslim or Arab-American enclaves have cropped up in places such as Dearborn, Michigan, and Minneapolis, allowing immigrants to carve out their own stories.

Of the people resettled the vast majority were settled in the US, with a small number in Europe. I visited many of them (both officially and unofficially) after resettlement. The ones in the US were doing well. At the time, nearly all were employed. With the exception of a few with advanced degrees, most were in low end factory type work. A whole group of them worked at a hog butchering plant in Iowa. Not one family was on welfare or public assistance.

Within a matter of 5 years most had or were in the process of purchasing a home. Very few of them lived even in the same neighborhood, and they were resettled all over the US. I was often treated to dinner at their homes and quite a few had alcohol in the home. A few drank, but sparingly.

The families that I visited in Europe (the two main places were in France and Switzerland) had not fared as well. Even though they had family connections, all of them were on welfare or public assistance. None of them had managed to buy a home or a car and were living in gov't furnished housing. There was little signs of integration.

Such comparisons are anecdotal but noteworthy.

None of the people resettled were very fundamental in their religious views, they were mixed Shia and Sunni, but predominantly Sunni. (There were a few Christians in the mix). They were mostly Kurdish and they were mostly members of large families (I believe the largest family resettled included a father, mother and 22 children -- of which about 8 were young adults). They had good family support and plenty of young people who were anxious and willing to work, even at very low paying jobs.

I am still in contact with many and they continue to do better in the US in general.

Sounds like America cherry picked the educated ones with something to contribute (nothing wrong with that) and the dross were sent to Europe, hence the reason they are uneployed and fail to fit in.

Wouldnt imagine there are too many openings for goat herders in Europe

So much of western Europe is so much of a cradle to grave welfare state that immigrants from very different civilizations and societies that relocate to there often get put into dependency because there isn't much opportunity for individual upward mobility and self-advancement.

It's often the case in such societies that the dominance of the public sector of the country creates a socio-economics that stifles creativity, initiative, self-fulfillment. From Greece to Spain to Scandinavia the dependency on government at the cost of the private sector could be considered oppressive, especially and in particular to the foreigner to the near south of Europe.

There are a lot of people in government departments and agencies in western Europe especially who depend on the population being dependent on government hand outs such as housing and welfare support.

You do have a point, the Socialist, federalist European state serves its own bureaucracy and appears not to give a damn about its people. Taking the UK as an,example Muslim immigrants seem to do less well than Hindus Sikhs, Chinese, Polish or whatever minority group you would care to mention. This surely filters out the structural problems of the host state leaving the cultural baggage of the immigrants as the main determining factor relating to successful integration.

Indeed, and I should say I did overlook the exceptionalism of the UK to the continentals in these respects. While the UK still lives the legacy of Fabian socialism and currently even worse direct influences, it still has a reasonable Anglo-Saxon and Magna Carta culture and tradition and has for the better and for worse always taken more seriously continentals such as John Calvin than those on the continent have themselves done.

So to some certain extent I am not in a position to quantify, Muslim immigrants walk into a structural framework of socio-economics that is inherently limiting to and of them. Western Europe is indeed a truly radical world that contrasts significantly from the lands of North Africa and the ME. The evidence is convincing that even Turkey and the EU are not a viable matchup.

[Wat dee]

Obama aims to show Islam, Western communities can coexist

I think that there is plenty of evidence around the world, that shows Obama is talking out his @rse.

So what is the other option??

[JockPieandBeans]

Obama aims to show Islam, Western communities can coexist

I think that there is plenty of evidence around the world, that shows Obama is talking out his @rse.

So what is the other option??

Other option ?

If you think that there is only one other option available.

I would be wasting my time trying to explain it to you.