PGCEi qualification ..... could I work in an International school?

[davidst01]

Numerous institutions in the Uk offer a PGCEi qualification by distance education. Will completing this qualification assist me in working at an International school or a govt school if I want to teach teenagers (in the future).

I've been in contact with an admin rep at one of the uni's in the Uk who informed me that:

''The general aim of the course is to improve teaching practice by building on new ideas and strategies, through critical reflection and action research, and then testing out these new theories in your own classroom. The course is not a practical teaching qualification and so it isn’t designed to give basic teacher training and it won’t provide any professional registration such as Qualified Teacher Status. ''

Currently I work at a govt uni and hold a Bachelor degree (non teaching related) and a Tesol cert. I thus don't have the credentials to work in an International school- and assume that I would not be able to get a teachers licence? If I did the PGCEi would this mean I could work at an International school and get a licence?

If the answer is no then I presume that I should alternatively do an MA in Education?

many thanks

[aidenai]

It's believed that a PGCEi makes you eligible for a TCT teacher license. International Schools often want you to have a PGCE as that one includes QTS.

[claffey]

Your best option is to go to the UK and do a PGCE there. You then need a couple of years experience after that in the UK...I went back to do it in 2012/13. I then did my NQT year and received QTS. I returned to Thailand in August and got my old job back teaching ESL. I have applied to over 30 international schools in the last six months. I got offered two interviews and received two job offers. However, these were not in my subject, History. They were both EAL positions. I was lucky enough to be offered full benefits with one of them and so I will start there in August. International Schools are looking for experience in the UK Curriculum from UK schools. They also prefer experience from private schools in the UK. They will not consider any ESL experience, prior to your PGCE, as experience. They also don't care that you are familiar with Thailand and familiar with its culture. Essentially these schools are run by people who are class conscious. Many of the principals and Recruiters were probably educated in private schools themselves and are part of the 'priveleged' class.In other words they are snobs! ESL and indeed EAL teachers are at the bottom of their hierarchical way of thinking.. I seem to have been very kucky and found a mid Tier school who seem to value my prior experiences. This is not normal. A masters in education from a UK university will not enable you to get QTS..

I went back to do my PGCE and brought my wife and 3 year old son too. I don't know how we survived financially but we did. I only managed one year experience and don't regret coming back a year too soon. We missed Bangkok so we gambled and came back. I guess that gamble has paid off..However, if I was single I wouldve stayed there to gain 2 or 3 years experience....Hopw this helps and good luck!!!

PS I know one teacher with a PGCEi and they are teaching EAL at one of the top int schools in Bangkok.He doesn't recieve any benefits and his salary is not much better than your average ESL job. He's worked there 4 years and the school have said he will never get any benefits..He's probably a better teacher than some of the qualified teachers. (judging how he speaks about teaching and lessons.)

[casualbiker]

On the other hand there are reports of teachers with PGCEi who have got good jobs in Upper tier EP programs on circa 80k a month. If you just want a Thai teaching license then your better off with a 1 year teaching diploma. Online about 30k, face to face in Thailand from 80k. Both accepted by khurusapha (as far as I've been told)

[stevo2]

On the other hand there are reports of teachers with PGCEi who have got good jobs in Upper tier EP programs on circa 80k a month. If you just want a Thai teaching license then your better off with a 1 year teaching diploma. Online about 30k, face to face in Thailand from 80k. Both accepted by khurusapha (as far as I've been told)

Would you be kind enough to post a link to that, please.

[davidst01]

Your best option is to go to the UK and do a PGCE there. You then need a couple of years experience after that in the UK...I went back to do it in 2012/13. I then did my NQT year and received QTS. I returned to Thailand in August and got my old job back teaching ESL. I have applied to over 30 international schools in the last six months. I got offered two interviews and received two job offers. However, these were not in my subject, History. They were both EAL positions. I was lucky enough to be offered full benefits with one of them and so I will start there in August. International Schools are looking for experience in the UK Curriculum from UK schools. They also prefer experience from private schools in the UK. They will not consider any ESL experience, prior to your PGCE, as experience. They also don't care that you are familiar with Thailand and familiar with its culture. Essentially these schools are run by people who are class conscious. Many of the principals and Recruiters were probably educated in private schools themselves and are part of the 'priveleged' class.In other words they are snobs! ESL and indeed EAL teachers are at the bottom of their hierarchical way of thinking.. I seem to have been very kucky and found a mid Tier school who seem to value my prior experiences. This is not normal. A masters in education from a UK university will not enable you to get QTS..

I went back to do my PGCE and brought my wife and 3 year old son too. I don't know how we survived financially but we did. I only managed one year experience and don't regret coming back a year too soon. We missed Bangkok so we gambled and came back. I guess that gamble has paid off..However, if I was single I wouldve stayed there to gain 2 or 3 years experience....Hopw this helps and good luck!!!

PS I know one teacher with a PGCEi and they are teaching EAL at one of the top int schools in Bangkok.He doesn't recieve any benefits and his salary is not much better than your average ESL job. He's worked there 4 years and the school have said he will never get any benefits..He's probably a better teacher than some of the qualified teachers. (judging how he speaks about teaching and lessons.)

This is really useful information thanks. What does NQT and QTS stand for.

It would be interesting to see if any other esteemed members can confirm if getting the PGCEi means that one can obtain a teaching licence in Thailand

[casualbiker]

On the other hand there are reports of teachers with PGCEi who have got good jobs in Upper tier EP programs on circa 80k a month. If you just want a Thai teaching license then your better off with a 1 year teaching diploma. Online about 30k, face to face in Thailand from 80k. Both accepted by khurusapha (as far as I've been told)

Would you be kind enough to post a link to that, please.

To the teaching diploma? Or the teachers getting job's with PGCEi?

Here's the Thai one : http://www.stic.ac.th/inter/main/en/images/home/graduate-diploma-1.gif

Here's the Filipino online one : http://www.trecemartirescitycollege.com.ph

[marty147]

"This is really useful information thanks. What does NQT and QTS stand for."

A Newly Qualified Teacher has completed a PGCE which includes a year of supervised teaching practice.

They then possess all of the academic qualification necessary to teach in a UK government school.

They must then complete a further year of teaching to gain Qualified Teacher Status.

All good international schools will insist on multiple years of experience post QTS.

Therefore, don't expect to be able to walk into a real teaching job at a real international school with just a PGCEi.

The university's website that you quoted explicitly states that you will not achieve QTS from doing their distance course.

[claffey]

NQT means Newly Qualified Teacher. This is your first year of teaching after obtaining your PGCE.When you complete your NQT year you receive QTS which is Qualified Teacher Status...

If you are serious about teaching I suggest you take this route. You will have a much more secure future and will have better job prospects, salary etc...Two or three years sounds like a long time but it flies.You'll be back before you know it!Good Luck...

[orpheus7876]

Hi, some useful information given here.

I just wanted to clarify a couple of things about what you said Claffey:

Did you spend in total two years in the UK (one doing your PGCE and one doing your NQT year)? Or did you just spend the one PGCE year there?

Also, you said that you are given QTS after you have completed your NQT year (this is what I had thought for a while) but I'm pretty sure that your PGCE year gives you Qualified Teacher Status and then the NQT year is the induction period you must complete by law if you are to work in a state-maintained school in England. Hence why it is called "newly qualifed teacher" (you are already qualified). I've heard you are given "a recommendation for QTS" upon completion of the PGCE year, but I think this still means that you are then qualified, not that you will only become qualified at the end of the NQT induction.

Have a look at the wording in the following government legislation, found at:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/458233/Statutory_induction_guidance_for_newly_qualified_teachers.pdf

It does not say anything about becoming qualified after the induction period:

Requirement to complete an induction period

1.6

Subject to the exemptions listed in Annex B (see Schedule 1 of the Regulations), a qualified teacher cannot be employed as a teacher in a relevant school in England unless they have satisfactorily completed an induction period in accordance with the Regulations and this guidance. While NQTs are encouraged to start their

induction as soon as possible after gaining qualified teacher status (QTS), there is no set time limit for starting or completing an induction period.

1.7

There is no legal requirement to satisfactorily complete an induction period if an NQT intends to work solely in the independent sector, including an academy, a free school, a BSO, an independent nursery school or an FE institution. However, it may be possible for an NQT to serve a statutory induction period in such settings

as set out in this guidance.

Did you actually recieve a certificate of some kinf at the end of your PGCE that states you have a PGCE and QTS? If not, then perhaps I'm wrong.

The reason I ask is that the above legislation also seems to suggest that you don't have to do an NQT year in England if you had plans to work in an international school abroad (since all international schools are private and not state-run, I'm assuming). I'm in a similar situation as you were but I'm hoping to only spend a year completing my PGCE year and then find employment in an international school abroad. However, I suppose most international schools wouldn't be interested in someone with one year's UK curriculum experience right?

And that's another question: do international schools care whether the UK curriculum experience is gained in a UK school, or can it be in any school including international schools?

Cheers

[simon43]

You do not need to work in the UK school to get your QTS - the above makes that clear. But if you intend to return to teach in the UK in the future, then you must go through the NQT induction period before being allowed to teach in the UK school.

As an aside, you do not need to study in the UK or study for a PGCE to obtain QTS, (or I should say equivalent of QTS under UK law). You can obtain QTLS without returning to the UK by studying for an online Level 5 certificate in lifelong learning. The stipulation is that you should be teaching (anywhere in the world), and that a QTS teaching colleague can observe some of your classes.

I investigated this route to QTS equivalency before and corresponded with the Institute of Teachers in the UK who confirmed that it was a valid and legal route to obtaining QTLS without setting foot or studying in the UK.

Of course, having QTS/QTLS and never having studied/taught in the UK may not get you that dream job overseas...

[orpheus7876]

Yes that's a good point.

I was mainly thinking about this idea I've often heard from people, that "one must do two years in the UK because only then will you get QTS, and henceforth be able to get a job in an international school" - this idea is true to the extent that international school employers will want to see 2 years UK curriculum experience, however there is no necessity that one must do two years in the UK. What I'm sayin is, an international school that only recruited qualified teachers, could in theory hire someone with only one year's UK curriculum experience - that person doesn't need to have done an NQT induction. It's just a case of the improbability of it as a result of the int schools wanting more experienced candidates.

I'm guessing you can't really take short cuts though, because it will come back to bite you! But then again, I met someone who went off to teach in an international school after completing his pgce, though he had done a year as an unqualified teacher in the UK too.

[gerryBScot]

There's no rhyme or reason to any of this. You can have a good bachelors degree from a top university, PGCE, QTS but it doesn't guarantee you a job; they certainly enhance your opportunities but there are no guarantees. Likewise you can have the PGCEi without QTS and get into top schools. Depends on how you present yourself and an element of luck. If I were you I would get the home based PGCE with observed teaching practice, secure Qualified Teacher Status and then put yourself into the international schools sector and go for it. It's a slower boat but in the long run it should lead you to the promised land of milk and honey!

[eldragon]

A good answer depends on your goals, mainly desired salary and what kind of school (level of quality) you want to work at, as well as how long you plan on working in Thailand. I know several teachers- some without a BA, and some with degrees from Thai universities- that work at private schools and international schools with zero training in education beyond a TEFL certificate. Not sure why youd want to work at a gov school with a PGCE. The salary will almost always be under/cap out at 50K.

[SomeoneinPhuket]

I'm sort of having the same issue. I've been teaching in Phuket for about 3 years and I'm about to do my PGCEi. I've heard about people being hired at "International schools" with only a PGCEi degree, but I was wondering how you could get a QTS in Thailand (I'm not British btw).

[George Bowman]

All the top international schools generally require a teacher with some experience in their homeland.

[simon43]

 but I was wondering how you could get a QTS in Thailand (I'm not British btw).

 

See my post #11.  You can obtain QTLS (which under UK law is now considered equivalent to QTS, and allows you to work in UK state schools).  You do not need to be British, nor visit the UK to obtain QTLS.

[ozmeldo]

Its appears on a few school sites that there are teachers hired with pgce. Id venture to say the elite if them would be a tertiary position at least initially but not always. Mid tier would be dependant on other qualifications. If you are a brand new teacher, no. Youd need 2-3 years at some recognized school. Bottom tier possible but why? Better to wirk at a good public, private, its half the work for 80% of the pay.

 

Pgce should get you a licence but i think you'll still need a year plus at a school plus all the supporting docs.

 

Online schools are still worthless and everyone knows it. It should not be this way, but it is.

[BobbyL]

On 8/21/2017 at 8:50 PM, SomeoneinPhuket said:

I'm sort of having the same issue. I've been teaching in Phuket for about 3 years and I'm about to do my PGCEi. I've heard about people being hired at "International schools" with only a PGCEi degree, but I was wondering how you could get a QTS in Thailand (I'm not British btw).

You can't get QTS through a PGCEi. I know two people who have done the Nottingham one and are in International schools in Bangkok. Not the higher level ones but still decent, they're both on 75k+. 

[jenny2017]

On 2/20/2015 at 1:22 PM, aidenai said:

It's believed that a PGCEi makes you eligible for a TCT teacher license. International Schools often want you to have a PGCE as that one includes QTS.

Always short and precise answers. Thank you very much, Merry X- Mas and a good New 2018 in best health. 

[somchaismith]

Wow! You're so clever.