Another Surprise That Didn't Even Surprise Me Anymore......

[lostinisaan]

Hello and Sawasdee Khrap,

Just wanted to share a funny story with you folks. I rewrote the Thesis for one of our Thai English teacher's Master degree not too long ago, which was already approved by her "adviser" and she'll receive her degree by the end of this month.

Unfortunately, does she not understand most of the words I was using, so would anybody ask her a question about "her Thesis", she couldn't answer them.

But maybe I was just too stupid to do such a task which can take quite a long time, when you have to look things up, related to the topic which was the use of common nouns and proper nouns in English news of an online English learning website.

She had a Google translated version of it, whenever I couldn't "read between the lines" and had to ask her what she meant with a particular word, or sentence, she tried to explain it to me in Thai. Okay, got it, and some more research on my own.

But to get to the point. The same highly intelligent linguist had sent me an e-mail with an attached file in office word format, but all pages written in Thai.

When I got back to her, because I thought she'd sent me the wrong file, it turned out that she wanted me to translate a whole English project work about the cleanliness at Thai schools, etc. pp into English. I really had to hold back not to start laughing right into her face, but decided to give it a go.

Asking my wife, son and some neighbors wasn't helpful at all, so some more researches were necessary. All Thais I was asking only told me “yeaah this is about bathrooms”. But no way to find somebody who could do that.

One translated a sentence into: "En schol no have no much there”/ But it was about ensuite bathrooms.at Thai schools.

This time I had to find a program which translates a sort of okay, that not too many parts have to be rewritten/re researched. Lol.

I finally found a pretty good and even free program that does a pretty good job. So I set down, translated part by part, using the right fond, then at the end I cleaned the English up, that it a sort of makes sense now.

I have to be honest that it's not exactly a masterpiece, but considering the given information in Thai, pretty good.

Here's the $ one million question for you.

How can a teacher of the English language and holder of a Master's degree in English, with Thai as her first language not be able to translate a relatively easy 12 page English project from Thai into English?

I will ask our monk later, he always has the right answers. Or maybe some knowledgeable posters here on TVF know the answer to it.

.

Not English.docx

[cooked]

Well take what you have just learned, and apply it to all the rest of the Brilliant Stuff you read, hear and see in Thailand.

[Briggsy]

You are still at quite a low level of discovery. Your title suggests you are over halfway, perhaps nearing the end of the onion-peeling exercise that is living in Thailand for a long time. Believe me, if you are even slightly surprised by what you related, you have a very long path to travel.

I may come across as condescending here. But I do not mean to. I genuinely believe you have a tremendous amount to discover that you currently have no idea of and will cause you to completely review what you previously took for granted.

[konying]

Met a few thai nationals , English teachers who wrote and spelled worst than bar girls and yet they were teaching English to thai students at school .

Dated a computer teacher who could not install McAfee anti virus and graded tests on "prettiness " instead of quality or correctness of work.

[lostinisaan]

Met a few thai nationals , English teachers who wrote and spelled worst than bar girls and yet they were teaching English to thai students at school .

Dated a computer teacher who could not install McAfee anti virus and graded tests on "prettiness " instead of quality or correctness of work.

I know a 21 year old "NES computer teacher", who couldn't even buy an online ticket for an inland flight, right before the time he "became a real teacher", because his mom "did all that stuff" for him before.'

He was really asking me how to book a ticket to Bangkok, using Air Asia's website.

Please do not blame any Thai teachers here. I know quite a lot of outstanding Thai English teachers, no NES teacher could even come close to them.

Edited February 21, 2015 by lostinisaan

[lostinisaan]

You are still at quite a low level of discovery. Your title suggests you are over halfway, perhaps nearing the end of the onion-peeling exercise that is living in Thailand for a long time. Believe me, if you are even slightly surprised by what you related, you have a very long path to travel.

I may come across as condescending here. But I do not mean to. I genuinely believe you have a tremendous amount to discover that you currently have no idea of and will cause you to completely review what you previously took for granted.

Briggsy, you might be wrong on this one. What an "onion peeling exercise" for you is, doesn't have to be one for me, right?

I thought this is a forum and anybody can write his/her thoughts down? Your allover opinion seems to be completely wrong.

But please. Jay Jenn.

[HeijoshinCool]

.

Based first on your OP, then on your replies, you still have a long row to hoe.

[jbauer]

I honestly don't want to be rude, but why did you agree to do this, or help with the Master's degree? Sorry to sound holier than thou, but it does make the general problem worse, allowing these types of lazy morons to prosper as teachers, thus setting a bad example to other teachers and students.

I admit, I don't know what situation you were in, whether they made you an offer you couldn't refuse etc. However, unless they were paying you (and not peanuts either), why would you do it if, as is implied from your posts, you obviously don't agree with the practice?

Edited February 21, 2015 by jbauer

[culicine]

No surprises here. Most of the competent speakers of english are not english teachers in schools - most progress much further and work in high levels in either the private of public sector. many have done post graduate studies overseas. Unfortunately, most of the top school graduates never want to become school teachers these days. Salaries are too low and conditions are too poor. The grass is greener just about everywhere else outside of the school gates.

[cooked]

My wife had two years of schoolong, which is probably why she was able to self teach herself Thai literacy and English, both of which she has mastered better than most Lao speakers around here, including the local school teacher.

[SheungWan]

There is a simple rule in plagiarism which is that those who allow their work to be plagiarised are as guilty as the one who plagiarises. The OP here seems to want his cake and eat it too, which is to criticise someone for passing themselves off as capable of doing something they are not and yet at the same time facilitating that deception. Posing on the right side of the ethical fault line but actually taking a selfie on the other side.

[lostinisaan]

I honestly don't want to be rude, but why did you agree to do this, or help with the Master's degree? Sorry to sound holier than thou, but it does make the general problem worse, allowing these types of lazy morons to prosper as teachers, thus setting a bad example to other teachers and students.

I admit, I don't know what situation you were in, whether they made you an offer you couldn't refuse etc. However, unless they were paying you (and not peanuts either), why would you do it if, as is implied from your posts, you obviously don't agree with the practice?

In the beginning I had no idea what the Google translated stuff was meant for. One day when I came to school the woman was asking me if I couldn't just "take a look" at something, written in English and make it "look better."

I agreed, thought I'd only have to correct some mistakes and had no idea how much work had to be done.

She'd already sent me mentioned document to my email account. Then I found out through my Filipino colleague that he had written one chapter for her "Master's degree" already a year ago, but regarding her, she wasn't satisfied with it. ( But it was her adviser, who complaint.)

Considering the fact that we are working together and I'd already started and spent quite a few hours to change it, made it difficult to tell her that I couldn't, or won't do it for her.

All I wanted was to help her out as her colleague. It's sometimes very difficult to say no under similar circumstances.

Edited February 22, 2015 by lostinisaan

[jbauer]

I understand it is an awkward situation, but I would have done one of three things, depending on how brave/evil I was feeling that day:

1) say yes, in exchange for a very good rate of pay;

2) say no, because they should be doing it themselves (makes me less popular, but I retain my ethics), or

3) say yes, then not do it, and give some weak excuse to get me off the hook when questioned about my progress (the Thai way [sorry]).

However, I do tend to take the high road on this; let them earn their own progress (actually, I would be willing to bet that your colleague had actually done next to no real, substantial, Master Degree level work at any time herself, and we really shouldn't enable these sorts of people).

[lostinisaan]

I understand it is an awkward situation, but I would have done one of three things, depending on how brave/evil I was feeling that day:

1) say yes, in exchange for a very good rate of pay;

2) say no, because they should be doing it themselves (makes me less popular, but I retain my ethics), or

3) say yes, then not do it, and give some weak excuse to get me off the hook when questioned about my progress (the Thai way [sorry]).

However, I do tend to take the high road on this; let them earn their own progress (actually, I would be willing to bet that your colleague had actually done next to no real, substantial, Master Degree level work at any time herself, and we really shouldn't enable these sorts of people).

I did tell her that I wouldn't do it for free. When I found out that she paid my Asian colleague 400 baht for one chapter a year ago, that was even worse than the Google translated version, I've told her that it won't be cheap.

Stupid me, I was asking for 7 K, finally received 2 K. Of course did she not have sufficient funds for a foreigner. Not worth the time I'd spent and not even considering that she'll soon make more money a month, once she's got "her Master's."

She is one of them who can hardly communicate with you, but I won't go down and speak baby English with her.

I totally agree with your final statement that we shouldn't be part of the "cheating team" and will think about it twice, if somebody approaches me next time.

Her excuse that she couldn't do the second translation from Thai into English, which seems to be for her daughter, was that she'd be so busy this week, in preparation for "her Master's" which she'll receive by the end of this week.

I made up my mind not to spend many hours to give them advice how to pass a TOEIC with a score over 600, which the director wants for all of his Thai employees, who're teaching English. They can be so nice when they need you............

Never heard of Thai teachers failing, when already that far.....let's end it with your last words. We shouldn't enable these sorts of people.

Edited February 22, 2015 by lostinisaan

[Briggsy]

You are still at quite a low level of discovery. Your title suggests you are over halfway, perhaps nearing the end of the onion-peeling exercise that is living in Thailand for a long time. Believe me, if you are even slightly surprised by what you related, you have a very long path to travel.

I may come across as condescending here. But I do not mean to. I genuinely believe you have a tremendous amount to discover that you currently have no idea of and will cause you to completely review what you previously took for granted.

Briggsy, you might be wrong on this one. What an "onion peeling exercise" for you is, doesn't have to be one for me, right?

I thought this is a forum and anybody can write his/her thoughts down? Your allover opinion seems to be completely wrong.

But please. Jay Jenn.

You have totally misunderstood my post. I probably was not clear.

I will rephrase more clearly.

As you discover more and more about Thailand, you will look back at your earlier discoveries and be surprised at how surprised you were at that earlier time.

In your example, you are now genuinely surprised that most Thai degrees are little more than toilet paper, including master's degrees (in fact this is particularly so, but that may be a discovery you have yet to make) and most Thai graduates have little more than a smattering of knowledge about their subject and no applicable skills. Perhaps 5 years from now, you will be so normalised to this, you will hardly think about it.

I don't understand your comment about opinions. Of course, everyone can state their opinion. I don't understand why you thought I thought your opinion was not allowed to be stated.

Please re-read my post in the cool light of day. You have misunderstood it.

[lostinisaan]

You are still at quite a low level of discovery. Your title suggests you are over halfway, perhaps nearing the end of the onion-peeling exercise that is living in Thailand for a long time. Believe me, if you are even slightly surprised by what you related, you have a very long path to travel.

I may come across as condescending here. But I do not mean to. I genuinely believe you have a tremendous amount to discover that you currently have no idea of and will cause you to completely review what you previously took for granted.

Briggsy, you might be wrong on this one. What an "onion peeling exercise" for you is, doesn't have to be one for me, right?

I thought this is a forum and anybody can write his/her thoughts down? Your allover opinion seems to be completely wrong.

But please. Jay Jenn.

You have totally misunderstood my post. I probably was not clear.

I will rephrase more clearly.

As you discover more and more about Thailand, you will look back at your earlier discoveries and be surprised at how surprised you were at that earlier time.

In your example, you are now genuinely surprised that most Thai degrees are little more than toilet paper, including master's degrees (in fact this is particularly so, but that may be a discovery you have yet to make) and most Thai graduates have little more than a smattering of knowledge about their subject and no applicable skills. Perhaps 5 years from now, you will be so normalised to this, you will hardly think about it.

I don't understand your comment about opinions. Of course, everyone can state their opinion. I don't understand why you thought I thought your opinion was not allowed to be stated.

Please re-read my post in the cool light of day. You have misunderstood it.

I assume that I've already discovered quite a lot of things in my thirteen years of constantly living here, being in the teaching circus, ( excuse my language, please) for ten.

I’m pretty much used to things relatives in Europe don’t even believe me that they exist, so basically I am aware of quite a lot of things that occur here.

My point regarding “opinions” was only mentioned, because we’re all different. So what’s appreciated in my opinion doesn't have to be your opinion. And Vice Versa…….

I might have experienced certain things in this country you've never heard of, which works the way around as well. But that doesn't make me, or you more, or less knowledgeable about circumstances foreigners living here encounter day by day.

I’m pretty much an easy going guy, thus the situation at this particular school did seem to affect my common sense in a way that I sometimes think I have lost my sense of humor. But I found my own way to smile about things, others couldn't deal with.

I’m aware about the teachers’ degrees, was even told by a befriended lawyer that I could “buy” a Doctorate degree for the sum of 500 K from an accredited university in the center of the northeast. "Approved" by all the important guys at this institution.

I know quite a lot about the usual cheating at any sorts of competitions, plus the window dressing that’s going on at most “World Class Standard Schools.The "free education on paper", which turns out to be not free, just considering the education of our 16 year old son, plus many other facts made me a sort of immune to all the existing rules that are not written on paper.......

I’m sometimes posting some sentences that are barely understood by others, who didn't go through a similar life here. Thus, I’m most of the time using this as a sort of a “valve” to deal with some for many foreigners, including me hard to understand circumstances.

So please forgive me when I’m trying to express my opinion about certain completely different cultural and ethical circumstances many foreigners encounter here. No matter how long they've been living here.

[uptheos]

You are still at quite a low level of discovery. Your title suggests you are over halfway, perhaps nearing the end of the onion-peeling exercise that is living in Thailand for a long time. Believe me, if you are even slightly surprised by what you related, you have a very long path to travel.

I may come across as condescending here. But I do not mean to. I genuinely believe you have a tremendous amount to discover that you currently have no idea of and will cause you to completely review what you previously took for granted.

Briggsy, you might be wrong on this one. What an "onion peeling exercise" for you is, doesn't have to be one for me, right?

I thought this is a forum and anybody can write his/her thoughts down? Your allover opinion seems to be completely wrong.

But please. Jay Jenn.

Indeed Jai Yen

[Kf6vci]

I honestly don't want to be rude, but why did you agree to do this, or help with the Master's degree? Sorry to sound holier than thou, but it does make the general problem worse, allowing these types of lazy morons to prosper as teachers, thus setting a bad example to other teachers and students.

I admit, I don't know what situation you were in, whether they made you an offer you couldn't refuse etc. However, unless they were paying you (and not peanuts either), why would you do it if, as is implied from your posts, you obviously don't agree with the practice?

There are excellent Thai teachers of English who could handle such a task brilliantly. No need for Google Translate or even a Thai-English dictionary.

TBH, when I was in 8th grade, I thought it a brilliant idea to plagiarize. (We went to some museum and the fool I was, I copied the art historian's essay on some famous painting).

Don't they have a mentor who reads such work? Surely, someone will know what's going on?

By not learning herself, this lady is cheating herself, the school, her students and her university. Nothing good will come of this!!

(In the past, some senior teachers a) relied on gibberish from Google Translate or asked a top M4 student to do their work. (I would have been ashamed, but these ladies near retirement weren't).

Which begs the question how and when the Thai system checks their teachers' ability?!? I know a teacher of English and she has real issues connecting 3 sentences for small talk.

[rott]

OP are you a NES yourself?

[lostinisaan]

OP are you a NES yourself?

I grew up in a bilingual environment, using English and German from earliest childhood on.

One of my longer lasting jobs in Europe was being a language translator for the Armed Forces Europe for many moons and still do translations from English into German and vice versa for a high tech website, of course on a work permit.

I also teach the German language.

But a translation from Thai into English was new for me.

[Rogergreybeard]

What was the name of the program for translation you found please

[Somtamnication]

I don't know who needs their head examined: the OP or the Thai teacher. Why would the OP put themselves in such a position to help someone who is incapable of translating a 12 page doc?

[aarontendo]

Works cited page has entries from wikipedia and other garbage sources (I assume those are works cited)...barf.

[lostinisaan]

I don't know who needs their head examined: the OP or the Thai teacher. Why would the OP put themselves in such a position to help someone who is incapable of translating a 12 page doc?

One of the reasons might be that I just bought new tires, then an expensive part of the steering had to be replaced and so on.

But what she gave me was only good for a pair of shoes and wasn't even enough for one "shoe" for my pick up...

But what goes around comes around. Just found an envelope on my desk this morning, written by the director's daughter, who's seeking a tutor, offering relatively good money.

And even if I don't have much to say at my school, I'm the head of everything that's related to Tinglish at my school. So I might need my head examined sooner,or later.....

Even when I was a sort of pissed writing this stuff for her, I finally learned quite a few new things about grammar, found a good translation program and made some extra money, I really needed this month.

The "incapable teacher's" excuse was that she would be too busy to do this translation for her own daughter.I'd feel very ashamed to ask somebody else when helping my own child. Of course does her daughter think, her mom did it for her.

She'll receive "her" Master's on Thursday, but isn't even capable to "master" a simple TOEIC. She tried it thrice and failed at the local Rajabhat, where Thais seem to be able to do such an assignment.

Thailand, the hub of surprises that don't even surprise anymore?

Finally, everybody's happy and things got back to normal. I know that I know nothing. A.E. -

.

Edited February 24, 2015 by lostinisaan

[lostinisaan]

What was the name of the program for translation you found please

Please see: http://imtranslator.net/translation/thai/to-english/translation/

You can choose which translator you want to use. Babylon seems to be the best. You can also download a version from Babylon's website.

Cheers-

[Scott]

Off-topic posts removed.

[WonnabeBiker]

Whoa. A 12 pages long document and all in Thai. With her not even making an effort to have a go at translating or - as important - condensing the text?!? Academic writing is not about churning out long-winded bla bla.

This is intriguing, as at my school, Thai teachers had to take the TOEIC test. Doesn't this apply to each and every Thai teacher of English? Or are some more equal than others and can enjoy their promotion and Masters degrees without getting tested?!?

OP, do you think Thailand needs another "English teacher" who can't / won't make an effort at doing some of the work herself?

Apply this to the medical field and the consequences might be lethal.

The whole process stinks - including that unknown "advisor's" role. How dare such a person ("professor? lecturer?") pass students he or she must know cannot even handle their own thesis?!??

The Emperor is naked. It's time to face reality and do something for the poor kids who won't be learning English because another incompetent and lazy person poses as "English teacher".

Errm, is the PACC looking into such cases, or would that destroy the fabric of society?

Does Thailand want phonies who are waied and respected?