Video of CM Immigration Presentation at Expats Club now on-line

[NancyL]

At long-last the complete video of the presentation by Chiang Mai Immigration senior officials at the CM Expats Club meeting on 22 October 2014 at Le Meridien Hotel is now available on the CEC website:

http://www.chiangmaiexpatsclub.com/immigration-2014/

The entire presentation is offered, edited only to remove transitions and pauses. Also, the video has been divided into nine parts, or chapters for ease of replay and study of specific topics of interest.

Immigration officials requested no changes from what was presented at the meeting. However, they do wish to point out that that as of 1 December 2014 it is no longer possible to apply for an "O" visa or change a tourist visa in Chiang Mai as part of the so-called "two-step process" toward obtaining a retirement extension. Details are on the CEC website.

Special thanks are due to Mike and Sid of the CEC Video Club for their professional-quality work in filming and editing the video.

Edited February 23, 2015 by NancyL

[masuk]

Thanks Nancy. The video is well-made and is a good addition to the video library.

I've sent the video on CM to many friends overseas.

[NancyL]

Bumping this up.

Surprised there aren't any comments yet.

[colinneil]

Nancy maybe the Thai bashers do not have some thing bad to say for once.

Thanks for posting, i have viewed it and found it ok.

[uptheos]

Bumping this up.

Surprised there aren't any comments yet.

What sort of comments were you expecting?

[NancyL]

Oh, I don't know.

Maybe questions that were not answered in the video.

Surprise that the news media mis-reported the comment about 90-day reporting at the 7/11 -- saying the "Head of CM Immigration" promised that when clearly it wasn't him making the promise but one of his staff members. And he didn't "promise" anything. He said he was working on the idea as part of his PhD thesis.

Surprise that it was reported that the Head of Immigration promised a new office in two years, but -- if you listen carefully -- he said maybe approval for the budget for a new office in two years.

It's amazing how things get mis-reported in the media and hashed out over and over on Thai Visa and then when we get a chance to actually watch and listen to what is said (and to replay it over and over) there is absolute silence!

Regrettably it could be because of the long time lag in filming the talk and actually being able to post it on the internet. But, I had access to this video from the beginning and kept trying to tell everyone on Thai Visa that what the media was reporting wasn't correct. Instead the idea of 90 day report at the 7/11 managed to become the lead story out of this event, when it clearly it shouldn't have been.

Edited February 24, 2015 by NancyL

[cheeryble]

Thanks Nancy and to those who put this together

Nice to see the human side of those poor folks working at Immigration I didn't imagine they work into the evening each day.

"Nicky" was always a pleasant chap to deal with.

Edited February 24, 2015 by cheeryble

[onthedarkside]

Post removed - no need to inflame other members.

[uptheos]

Oh, I don't know.

Maybe questions that were not answered in the video.

Surprise that the news media mis-reported the comment about 90-day reporting at the 7/11 -- saying the "Head of CM Immigration" promised that when clearly it wasn't him making the promise but one of his staff members. And he didn't "promise" anything. He said he was working on the idea as part of his PhD thesis.

Surprise that it was reported that the Head of Immigration promised a new office in two years, but -- if you listen carefully -- he said maybe approval for the budget for a new office in two years.

It's amazing how things get mis-reported in the media and hashed out over and over on Thai Visa and then when we get a chance to actually watch and listen to what is said (and to replay it over and over) there is absolute silence!

Regrettably it could be because of the long time lag in filming the talk and actually being able to post it on the internet. But, I had access to this video from the beginning and kept trying to tell everyone on Thai Visa that what the media was reporting wasn't correct. Instead the idea of 90 day report at the 7/11 managed to become the lead story out of this event, when it clearly it shouldn't have been.

Maybe there are no comments because there really is nothing of substance to comment on?

You described it quite rightly in another post as 'Visa 101'.

I suppose regular readers of this forum were looking for something they didn't already know about, but all they got was a long talk about things that have been hashed over on TVF time and again. But as you said it was mainly given for members of the CEC not for this forum. It seems like a missed opportunity to get something meaningful from immigration.

Yes it was nice to see a human side of immigration, I'm sorry they work long hours but so do many people, without a fraction of the salary, benefits and power. However, their humanity and working hours really wasn't the purpose of making this video I'm sure.

As for the 7/11 threads, they will always have mileage simply because they are different and if it's in someone's thesis who knows what the future holds, so why not throw it out for discussion if there is speculation?

The video I'm afraid was same old same and much less. The camera and audio work was very good and I'm sure certain members of the CEC, who once knew nothing about visas are now more enlightened.

[evenstevens]

seeing that 4 months has passed since the meeting and now followed by a video recording audited by the authorietys in charge

absoulately nuffing has been acheived in benefitting aliens, in receiving a fair go ,from the poor services provided by the immgr dept

its business as usual at the zoo,plastic chairs and all ...a nice afternoon to all

[NancyL]

The morning prequeue lines and the plastic chairs are an enhancement that came after the Immigration visit to CEC. When the Head of Immigration walked into the meeting room at Le Meridien and saw the audience of a couple hundred people, he looked around in astonishment and said "all so old! Do they come to the office themselves?" I assured him, yes and when he saw how everyone was so attentive, took notes, listened carefully that helped to convince him that these "old people" are indeed an important part of his customer base. After the meeting, he and the two senior Sargents had lunch with the CEC Board and we talked about safety concerns with the early morning scrum.

The annual retirement extension process can be quite stressful, especially for elderly people of limited means who are starting to have memory problems and long wait times and physical nature of the morning check-in doesn't help.

Thus, I'm gratified to see them continue to work on improving the morning prequeue process. I think some good came from their meeting with CEC.

Not everyone has the means to afford to hire a visa agent to do the work for him.

[uptheos]

The morning prequeue lines and the plastic chairs are an enhancement that came after the Immigration visit to CEC. When the Head of Immigration walked into the meeting room at Le Meridien and saw the audience of a couple hundred people, he looked around in astonishment and said "all so old! Do they come to the office themselves?" I assured him, yes and when he saw how everyone was so attentive, took notes, listened carefully that helped to convince him that these "old people" are indeed an important part of his customer base. After the meeting, he and the two senior Sargents had lunch with the CEC Board and we talked about safety concerns with the early morning scrum.

The annual retirement extension process can be quite stressful, especially for elderly people of limited means who are starting to have memory problems and long wait times and physical nature of the morning check-in doesn't help.

Thus, I'm gratified to see them continue to work on improving the morning prequeue process. I think some good came from their meeting with CEC.

Not everyone has the means to afford to hire a visa agent to do the work for him.

1. Agree 100% and some thinking out of the box is required by immigration to help these people.

2. What work is currently going on to improve the morning pre-queue process?

[northernjohn]

The morning prequeue lines and the plastic chairs are an enhancement that came after the Immigration visit to CEC. When the Head of Immigration walked into the meeting room at Le Meridien and saw the audience of a couple hundred people, he looked around in astonishment and said "all so old! Do they come to the office themselves?" I assured him, yes and when he saw how everyone was so attentive, took notes, listened carefully that helped to convince him that these "old people" are indeed an important part of his customer base. After the meeting, he and the two senior Sargents had lunch with the CEC Board and we talked about safety concerns with the early morning scrum.

The annual retirement extension process can be quite stressful, especially for elderly people of limited means who are starting to have memory problems and long wait times and physical nature of the morning check-in doesn't help.

Thus, I'm gratified to see them continue to work on improving the morning prequeue process. I think some good came from their meeting with CEC.

Not everyone has the means to afford to hire a visa agent to do the work for him.

It would get a lot more attention if it had come out prior to the news on the 90 day internet coming along as well as it is. Hope to see it iron clad soon.

It was mostly common knowledge stuff to most people. The changes in other than straight out yearly extensions was probably news to many who like me ignored it because it did not apply to me. The Video was well done and even though much of it was known it was presented in a way to preclude the Thai bashers with there continual on going rant of what about this or that. It was also an eye-opener to people who think that they can do volunteer work on an extension visa.

As you say it did give the powers that be in the local office of immigration a little bit of a look at the other side of the fence.

Very well done Thank you for it.

[uptheos]

The morning prequeue lines and the plastic chairs are an enhancement that came after the Immigration visit to CEC. When the Head of Immigration walked into the meeting room at Le Meridien and saw the audience of a couple hundred people, he looked around in astonishment and said "all so old! Do they come to the office themselves?" I assured him, yes and when he saw how everyone was so attentive, took notes, listened carefully that helped to convince him that these "old people" are indeed an important part of his customer base. After the meeting, he and the two senior Sargents had lunch with the CEC Board and we talked about safety concerns with the early morning scrum.

The annual retirement extension process can be quite stressful, especially for elderly people of limited means who are starting to have memory problems and long wait times and physical nature of the morning check-in doesn't help.

Thus, I'm gratified to see them continue to work on improving the morning prequeue process. I think some good came from their meeting with CEC.

Not everyone has the means to afford to hire a visa agent to do the work for him.

It would get a lot more attention if it had come out prior to the news on the 90 day internet coming along as well as it is. Hope to see it iron clad soon.

It was mostly common knowledge stuff to most people. The changes in other than straight out yearly extensions was probably news to many who like me ignored it because it did not apply to me. The Video was well done and even though much of it was known it was presented in a way to preclude the Thai bashers with there continual on going rant of what about this or that. It was also an eye-opener to people who think that they can do volunteer work on an extension visa.

As you say it did give the powers that be in the local office of immigration a little bit of a look at the other side of the fence.

Very well done Thank you for it.

Yes, it clarified the volunteer thing once and for all.

I'm not sure looking at people sitting at tables with white linen cloth in The Meridian is exactly the other side of the fence. Much better they turn up at 5/6am and observe from there onward just how the vulnerable are doing battle in the scrum.

[Beng]

Nothing new in this video, exept for this 3-5 year extension that is being mentioned.

That would be great and I hope it doesn't require to have 800K multiplied by 5 years = 4 Mio in the bank.

The english of the bloke is awful. Why not use a proper interpreter ?

[NancyL]

1. Agree 100% and some thinking out of the box is required by immigration to help these people.

2. What work is currently going on to improve the morning pre-queue process?

Actually, they've done quite a lot to improve the morning pre-queue process in the past few months. I haven't seen a major scrum -- just a few minor dust-ups the last three times I've been there in the last six weeks or so.

For starters, they've segmented the pre-queue into four lines -- not just one. People sit in chairs in the lines. This keeps them from bunching up and crowding each other. And senior Immigration officers come on the scene at first light to pass out the large laminated pre-queue cards. The waiting room door is opened by 7 am and the senior officers start to process the pre-queue at that point. For some tasks -- like 90 day reports or changing stamps from old to new passports -- the real paper queue tickets are distributed outside in the parking lot at first light and people are told the approximate time they'll be served.

A year ago everyone waited outside the door, standing in a big herd. (The idea of writing names on a clipboard had long been abandoned) The door wasn't opened until 8 am and then it was pushing and shoving to get thru the door. The laminated prequeue cards were passed out once you got inside the waiting room room door. It was survival of the fittest to get thru the door and get a prequeue card. Now, if you get there early and sit in a chair you're fairly well assured of a fair and safe process for being seen in order.

[uptheos]

1. Agree 100% and some thinking out of the box is required by immigration to help these people.

2. What work is currently going on to improve the morning pre-queue process?

Actually, they've done quite a lot to improve the morning pre-queue process in the past few months. I haven't seen a major scrum -- just a few minor dust-ups the last three times I've been there in the last six weeks or so.

For starters, they've segmented the pre-queue into four lines -- not just one. People sit in chairs in the lines. This keeps them from bunching up and crowding each other. And senior Immigration officers come on the scene at first light to pass out the large laminated pre-queue cards. The waiting room door is opened by 7 am and the senior officers start to process the pre-queue at that point. For some tasks -- like 90 day reports or changing stamps from old to new passports -- the real paper queue tickets are distributed outside in the parking lot at first light and people are told the approximate time they'll be served.

A year ago everyone waited outside the door, standing in a big herd. (The idea of writing names on a clipboard had long been abandoned) The door wasn't opened until 8 am and then it was pushing and shoving to get thru the door. The laminated prequeue cards were passed out once you got inside the waiting room room door. It was survival of the fittest to get thru the door and get a prequeue card. Now, if you get there early and sit in a chair you're fairly well assured of a fair and safe process for being seen in order.

I'm never there in the morning, so thank you for clarifying that the situation isn't bad at all.

[masuk]

I thought the Chiang Mai head of Immigration did a good job. We had been warned that he could not speak English, and I only wish my Thai was as good as his English.

This country has got a long way to go before its English is up to the standard of former British and US colonies, and it's a pity we can't be of more assistance, but they don't want volunteers, so there's nothing we can do.

So many of us 'oldies' would be more than happy to help, as they do in other ASEAN countries, but this is what the Thais want, like it or not.

[uptheos]

I thought the Chiang Mai head of Immigration did a good job. We had been warned that he could not speak English, and I only wish my Thai was as good as his English.

This country has got a long way to go before its English is up to the standard of former British and US colonies, and it's a pity we can't be of more assistance, but they don't want volunteers, so there's nothing we can do.

So many of us 'oldies' would be more than happy to help, as they do in other ASEAN countries, but this is what the Thais want, like it or not.

Yes it's a strange concept they have regarding volunteers, it's not as if teaching English you're taking a job away from a Thai.

[true blue]

many thanks to nancy for her efforts and tireless work in trying to improve the lot for some of the older expats in chiang mai.nice to see some one caring for the less agile in the community.keep up the good work love,

[uptheos]

many thanks to nancy for her efforts and tireless work in trying to improve the lot for some of the older expats in chiang mai.nice to see some one caring for the less agile in the community.keep up the good work love,

Any comments regarding immigration's presentation?

What did you learn from it?

[true blue]

many thanks to nancy for her efforts and tireless work in trying to improve the lot for some of the older expats in chiang mai.nice to see some one caring for the less agile in the community.keep up the good work love,

Any comments regarding immigration's presentation?

What did you learn from it?

never read it not really of interest to me,but im sure it was of benefit to the expat community of a whole,tv comments on a large varity of subjects suffice for me,or the answers by some of the very knowledgeable members do.

[Mapguy]

1. Agree 100% and some thinking out of the box is required by immigration to help these people.

2. What work is currently going on to improve the morning pre-queue process?

Actually, they've done quite a lot to improve the morning pre-queue process in the past few months. I haven't seen a major scrum -- just a few minor dust-ups the last three times I've been there in the last six weeks or so.

For starters, they've segmented the pre-queue into four lines -- not just one. People sit in chairs in the lines. This keeps them from bunching up and crowding each other. And senior Immigration officers come on the scene at first light to pass out the large laminated pre-queue cards. The waiting room door is opened by 7 am and the senior officers start to process the pre-queue at that point. For some tasks -- like 90 day reports or changing stamps from old to new passports -- the real paper queue tickets are distributed outside in the parking lot at first light and people are told the approximate time they'll be served.

A year ago everyone waited outside the door, standing in a big herd. (The idea of writing names on a clipboard had long been abandoned) The door wasn't opened until 8 am and then it was pushing and shoving to get thru the door. The laminated prequeue cards were passed out once you got inside the waiting room room door. It was survival of the fittest to get thru the door and get a prequeue card. Now, if you get there early and sit in a chair you're fairly well assured of a fair and safe process for being seen in order.

It is true that Immigration has improved the way the morning crush is handled, but this seems more a comment, really, about the behavior of foreigners (and not Chinese!, for a change!)

[uptheos]

I'll throw out an idea for NancyL to comment on and anyone else who fancies, I think there will be a few takers

Another line, which is a 'priority' line for people over 70 (can be 75) or those obviously disabled.

Whoever is in that line before 7-30 am gets priority for a retirement extension ticket that day, regardless of what time the queuing started.

Or something like that I think you get the gist.

Able bodied people under 70 can come back another time

OK start throwing eggs.

[Mapguy]

No eggs! Not a bad idea at all to consider one variation of this approach or other, especially for those who can demonstrate marked lack of mobility --- not just lower back pain from too much Loy Kroh or too much golf.

"Showing your face" at Immigration is important to Immigration. I recall that an officer will come out of the office to the parking lot to interview someone physically unable to enter the building.

A problem arises with people who still would take "unfair" advantage; you know, the sorts who put disabled stickers on their autos even though they are perfectly able.

A physician's statement about physical inability might also be helpful, but again one can imagine some dodginess. Wasn't there once something about a physician's statement from a government hospital (not a private one)?

Policing certain aspects of a permissive policy might be problematic since the Thai approach is to hesitate to challenge people. Think of the egregious "cheating" by foreigners on other aspects of Immigration law and regulations that is generally ignored although the situation does seem to be tightening up. Haven't seen much posted about visa runs lately, have we?

Then --- here come the eggs ---there will no doubt be a howl heard from some among those who do not qualify for special consideration.

Edited February 24, 2015 by Mapguy

[masuk]

I'll throw out an idea for NancyL to comment on and anyone else who fancies, I think there will be a few takers

Another line, which is a 'priority' line for people over 70 (can be 75) or those obviously disabled.

Whoever is in that line before 7-30 am gets priority for a retirement extension ticket that day, regardless of what time the queuing started.

Or something like that I think you get the gist.

Able bodied people under 70 can come back another time

OK start throwing eggs.

YES! All of us oldies to be issued with over-ripe eggs for throwing at the young'uns under 70! Way to go!

To be a tad serious, I admired the Chinese Immigration for their 'over 65' queues. When you arrive at the Macau/China border, there are 41 queues, each with about 100+ people. Go to the 'oldies' queue and a policeman immediately checks your age on your passport, and off you go. Also their great discounts to exhibits, parks, beaches, for over-65s, or totally free entry to many places, cheaper bus fares. Just show your passport and you get waved in! I like it!!!

none of this 'you're white so you pay treble'!

I had been told there was an 'over 65' queue at Thai airports, but have yet to see one. Is there one at CNX?

[uptheos]

No eggs! Not a bad idea at all to consider one variation of this approach or other, especially for those who can demonstrate marked lack of mobility --- not just lower back pain from too much Loy Kroh or too much golf.

"Showing your face" at Immigration is important to Immigration. I recall that an officer will come out of the office to the parking lot to interview someone physically unable to enter the building.

A problem arises with people who still would take "unfair" advantage; you know, the sorts who put disabled stickers on their autos even though they are perfectly able.

A physician's statement about physical inability might also be helpful, but again one can imagine some dodginess. Wasn't there once something about a physician's statement from a government hospital (not a private one)?

Policing certain aspects of a permissive policy might be problematic since the Thai approach is to hesitate to challenge people. Think of the egregious "cheating" by foreigners on other aspects of Immigration law and regulations that is generally ignored although the situation does seem to be tightening up. Haven't seen much posted about visa runs lately, have we?

Then --- here come the eggs ---there will no doubt be a howl heard from some among those who do not qualify for special consideration.

Good post Mapguy and yes there would be teething problems, BUT it seems there's always teething problems of one kind or another at CM immigration.

Maybe just an age related line and re-think the disability.

There has to be an easier way for the elderly and infirm.

One line for 50+ one for 60+ and a priority line 70+

[Thailand]

No eggs! Not a bad idea at all to consider one variation of this approach or other, especially for those who can demonstrate marked lack of mobility --- not just lower back pain from too much Loy Kroh or too much golf.

"Showing your face" at Immigration is important to Immigration. I recall that an officer will come out of the office to the parking lot to interview someone physically unable to enter the building.

A problem arises with people who still would take "unfair" advantage; you know, the sorts who put disabled stickers on their autos even though they are perfectly able.

A physician's statement about physical inability might also be helpful, but again one can imagine some dodginess. Wasn't there once something about a physician's statement from a government hospital (not a private one)?

Policing certain aspects of a permissive policy might be problematic since the Thai approach is to hesitate to challenge people. Think of the egregious "cheating" by foreigners on other aspects of Immigration law and regulations that is generally ignored although the situation does seem to be tightening up. Haven't seen much posted about visa runs lately, have we?

Then --- here come the eggs ---there will no doubt be a howl heard from some among those who do not qualify for special consideration.

Good post Mapguy and yes there would be teething problems, BUT it seems there's always teething problems of one kind or another at CM immigration.

Maybe just an age related line and re-think the disability.

There has to be an easier way for the elderly and infirm.

One line for 50+ one for 60+ and a priority line 70+

And one line for 69?

[Thailand]

I'll throw out an idea for NancyL to comment on and anyone else who fancies, I think there will be a few takers

Another line, which is a 'priority' line for people over 70 (can be 75) or those obviously disabled.

Whoever is in that line before 7-30 am gets priority for a retirement extension ticket that day, regardless of what time the queuing started.

Or something like that I think you get the gist.

Able bodied people under 70 can come back another time

OK start throwing eggs.

YES! All of us oldies to be issued with over-ripe eggs for throwing at the young'uns under 70! Way to go!

To be a tad serious, I admired the Chinese Immigration for their 'over 65' queues. When you arrive at the Macau/China border, there are 41 queues, each with about 100+ people. Go to the 'oldies' queue and a policeman immediately checks your age on your passport, and off you go. Also their great discounts to exhibits, parks, beaches, for over-65s, or totally free entry to many places, cheaper bus fares. Just show your passport and you get waved in! I like it!!!

none of this 'you're white so you pay treble'!

I had been told there was an 'over 65' queue at Thai airports, but have yet to see one. Is there one at CNX?

Used that over 65 queue a few times, and cheap/ free access to museums etc on many occasions. The behaviour of some travelling idiots may be in question but they have certainly got it right for the seniors!

[NancyL]

There are special queues at Nakorn Ping hospital for over age 65 and seniors get discounts at some Thai movie theaters, so yes, there is a precedence for such a queue elsewhere in Chiang Mai and at a gov't facility (NKP hospital) During the short-lived time that they issued the 30 baht insurance card to foreigners, the staff there was very good about leading the older foreigners over to that line at the cashiers because most foreigners were clueless about its existences because the signs were in Thai.

I don't know how much help such a queue would be for for the morning process however, because the longest queue is the one for retirement extensions and I suspect many of the customers are over age 65.