Jakarta court dismisses death row Australians' legal challenge

[webfact]

Jakarta court dismisses death row Australians' legal challenge

JAKARTA (AFP) - An Indonesian court on Tuesday dismissed a bid by two Australian drug traffickers on death row to avoid execution by challenging the president's rejection of their pleas for clemency.

Myuran Sukumaran and Andrew Chan, the ringleaders of the so-called "Bali Nine" drug smuggling gang, were arrested for trying to traffic heroin out of Indonesia in 2005 and sentenced to death the following year.

Their appeals for presidential clemency, typically a death row convict’s final chance of avoiding the firing squad, were rejected by new Indonesian President Joko Widodo in recent months.

On Tuesday, the Administrative Court in Jakarta dismissed the men’s application to challenge Widodo’s refusal to grant them clemency, a rare move that was seen as having little chance of success.

Rejecting Sukumaran’s application, presiding Judge Hendro Puspito said: "Clemency is the prerogative of the president... the state administrative court has no right to rule on the challenge."

He also rejected Chan’s application. The judge said that the pair had 14 days to lodge an appeal, and their lawyers said they would.

The pair’s legal team had earlier applied for a second judicial review of their cases, but judges also rejected that application.

Later, Widodo, who has been a vocal supporter of the death penalty for drug traffickers, insisted that Jakarta would push ahead with the executions of the Australians and other foreigners on death row.

He said that the Brazilian and French presidents, whose citizens on death row have also lost appeals for presidential clemency, had recently made calls to him.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/Jakarta-court-dismisses-death-row-Australians-lega-30254741.html


-- The Nation 2015-02-24

[Just1Voice]

It's real simple. You know drugs are illegal. If you deal in drugs, you know you're breaking the law. As a result, you have zero rights when you get caught.

No sympathy from me.

[Neurath]

It's real simple. You know converting from Islam is illegal. If you convert from Islam, you know you're breaking the law. As a result, you have zero rights when you get caught.

No sympathy from me.

Point is that the statement is only going to work in so far as the law is just.

Also, knowing in advance that the breaking of an unjust law brings with it the death penalty, doesn't entail that the person so breaking it deserves to die. Stupid perhaps, but deserving to die I don't think so. There would be no population pressure anywhere in the world if stupidity had that consequence.

Drunk drivers cause far more deaths, but there's no clamor to have those law breakers put to death. Perhaps we should?

[bobmac10]

Yeah right, Indonesian justice at its finest.

Meanwhile the majority of the Bali bombing gang which killed 202 innocent people are serving life sentences or less.

Abu Bakar Bashir
He is considered the spiritual leader of radical Islamic group Jemaah Islamiah. In December 2010 Bashir was charged in relation to the discovery of a paramilitary camp in Aceh in 2010, which he is accused of funding. On June 15, 2011 he was found guilty of using violence, or the threat of violence, to incite terrorism and was handed a 15-year prison sentence. His lawyers say he will appeal. In 2005 Bashir was found guilty of conspiracy over the 2002 Bali bombings and sentenced to two and a half years in prison. He was released in June 2006 after being cleared of any involvement in an appeal hearing.

Sarjiyo (Sawad)

Aided and abetted main conspiritors, helped pack and mix chemicals for the bombs. Is serving a life sentance in prison.

Ali Imron

The brother of Mukhlas and Amrozi, he cooperated with police after being caught and is serving a life sentance for helping build the bombs.

Mubarok

Currently serving a life sentance for heping transport the explosives to Bali.

[nycjoe]

The president of Indonesia made a point of how many people die from heroin on a daily basis in his country, He equates heroin smuggling with murder.

[LuckyLew]

It's real simple. You know converting from Islam is illegal. If you convert from Islam, you know you're breaking the law. As a result, you have zero rights when you get caught.

No sympathy from me.

Point is that the statement is only going to work in so far as the law is just.

Also, knowing in advance that the breaking of an unjust law brings with it the death penalty, doesn't entail that the person so breaking it deserves to die. Stupid perhaps, but deserving to die I don't think so. There would be no population pressure anywhere in the world if stupidity had that consequence.

Drunk drivers cause far more deaths, but there's no clamor to have those law breakers put to death. Perhaps we should?

They are drug dealers who got caught, tried and convicted

Before they were caught how many lives did the drugs they smuggled / sold ruin?

No sympathy from me either

If a countries law stated the death penalty for a drunk driver who causes death I would not argue

nor would I be sympathetic, as I feel drunk driving is one of the stupidest things a person can do

[rethaier]

It's real simple. You know converting from Islam is illegal. If you convert from Islam, you know you're breaking the law. As a result, you have zero rights when you get caught.

No sympathy from me.

Point is that the statement is only going to work in so far as the law is just.

Also, knowing in advance that the breaking of an unjust law brings with it the death penalty, doesn't entail that the person so breaking it deserves to die. Stupid perhaps, but deserving to die I don't think so. There would be no population pressure anywhere in the world if stupidity had that consequence.

Drunk drivers cause far more deaths, but there's no clamor to have those law breakers put to death. Perhaps we should?

Nothing to do with stupidity. They are not being executed because they are stupid. The signs at Bali airport are clear. The penalty for drug smuggling is death. I don't think these two were stupid, they simply thought they'd take the risk and if they succeeded make a lot of easy money. And bear in mind that they had a simultaneous group of their accomplices/mules arrested in Hong Kong so it was not even a one-off.

[rotary]

Well at least a bit of good news today.

[malcoml]

To throw a cat in with the pigeons I believe these two guys may have been the king pins of this operation but neither of them was actually found with any drugs on them or in their possession.

The other people on the plane had drugs in their possession and they have been given lesser sentences.

[ALLSEEINGEYE]

I think the death penalty is far too harsh a penalty for trafficking in drugs. That being said, these clowns knew what the penalty was when trafficking drugs in the country. They gambled and they lost. No sympathy from me either. They weren't the first and unfortunately they won't be the last. Stupid is as stupid does. these are the real winners of the Darwin awards.

[arjunadawn]

It's real simple. You know drugs are illegal. If you deal in drugs, you know you're breaking the law. As a result, you have zero rights when you get caught.

No sympathy from me.

x2

I agree but they did have more; they had legal rights relative to the country where the crime was committed and exhausted them. A big problem in the world today is non accountablility or mitigating bad choices.

[bannork]

I thought the kingpin was living the high life back in Australia, won a lot of money on the lottery and went clean.The police know who he is but can't touch him, no evidence to nail him. These 2 were the foremen of the outfit as it were from what I've read. Young and stupid the whole lot at the time, just in their early 20s

Heroin is a terrible drug but jeez the Indonesians are sure dragging this out, flying the condemned men in helicopters with a fighter escort to another island, then leaving them 3 days in solitary before shooting them!

Why don't they just shoot them at a wall in the prison they're in instead of all this palaver? Must be costing the Indonesians quite a penny. From what I've read the 2 have reformed themselves well, helping to improve the prison and prisoners, if I was the Indonesian President i'd commute their sentence to 20 years and warn any potential drug smuggler that's the mandatory minimum sentence for smuggling heroin.

Execution should be reserved for psychotic monsters deprived of any conscience, not young men who just got greedy.

[Nayet]

It's real simple. You know converting from Islam is illegal. If you convert from Islam, you know you're breaking the law. As a result, you have zero rights when you get caught.

No sympathy from me.

Point is that the statement is only going to work in so far as the law is just.

Also, knowing in advance that the breaking of an unjust law brings with it the death penalty, doesn't entail that the person so breaking it deserves to die. Stupid perhaps, but deserving to die I don't think so. There would be no population pressure anywhere in the world if stupidity had that consequence.

Drunk drivers cause far more deaths, but there's no clamor to have those law breakers put to death. Perhaps we should?

They are drug dealers who got caught, tried and convicted

Before they were caught how many lives did the drugs they smuggled / sold ruin?

No sympathy from me either

If a countries law stated the death penalty for a drunk driver who causes death I would not argue

nor would I be sympathetic, as I feel drunk driving is one of the stupidest things a person can do

So consequently you have no sympathy for criminals in Islamic countries who get their arms amputated for stealing?

[Yann55]

It's real simple. You know converting from Islam is illegal. If you convert from Islam, you know you're breaking the law. As a result, you have zero rights when you get caught.

No sympathy from me.

Point is that the statement is only going to work in so far as the law is just.

Also, knowing in advance that the breaking of an unjust law brings with it the death penalty, doesn't entail that the person so breaking it deserves to die. Stupid perhaps, but deserving to die I don't think so. There would be no population pressure anywhere in the world if stupidity had that consequence.

Drunk drivers cause far more deaths, but there's no clamor to have those law breakers put to death. Perhaps we should?

Your arguments are interesting and challenging.

I remember having a similar conversation some 20 years ago with a French doctor who came to Bangkok prisons regularly on behalf of a NGO that helped French citizens imprisoned abroad. I assumed that he would be totally against the death penalty, and he didn't say that he supported it but he said this, which has remained in the back of my mind every since :

"Many people are shocked when drug smugglers are put to death because 'they are not murderers'. However there is a very well-known ratio which states that for every kilo of heroin there is one death by overdose. The guys who smuggle drugs 'professionally' are totally aware of that. They are also aware of the fact that most drug addicts are made to become addicts by cunning and experienced drug dealers who know how to exploit personality weaknesses or a person's momentary state of distress".

[Asiantravel]

It's real simple. You know converting from Islam is illegal. If you convert from Islam, you know you're breaking the law. As a result, you have zero rights when you get caught.

No sympathy from me.

Point is that the statement is only going to work in so far as the law is just.

Also, knowing in advance that the breaking of an unjust law brings with it the death penalty, doesn't entail that the person so breaking it deserves to die. Stupid perhaps, but deserving to die I don't think so. There would be no population pressure anywhere in the world if stupidity had that consequence.

Drunk drivers cause far more deaths, but there's no clamor to have those law breakers put to death. Perhaps we should?

Nothing to do with stupidity. They are not being executed because they are stupid. The signs at Bali airport are clear. The penalty for drug smuggling is death. I don't think these two were stupid, they simply thought they'd take the risk and if they succeeded make a lot of easy money. And bear in mind that they had a simultaneous group of their accomplices/mules arrested in Hong Kong so it was not even a one-off.

"The signs at Bali airport are clear. "

it's even stated clearly on the arrivals card that you fill in on the plane before landing. " DEATH PENALTY FOR DRUG TRAFFICKERS UNDER INDONESIAN LAW ".

[chooka]

Just execute the vermin and then move on.

[gchurch259]

Yeah right, Indonesian justice at its finest.

Meanwhile the majority of the Bali bombing gang which killed 202 innocent people are serving life sentences or less.

Abu Bakar Bashir

He is considered the spiritual leader of radical Islamic group Jemaah Islamiah. In December 2010 Bashir was charged in relation to the discovery of a paramilitary camp in Aceh in 2010, which he is accused of funding. On June 15, 2011 he was found guilty of using violence, or the threat of violence, to incite terrorism and was handed a 15-year prison sentence. His lawyers say he will appeal. In 2005 Bashir was found guilty of conspiracy over the 2002 Bali bombings and sentenced to two and a half years in prison. He was released in June 2006 after being cleared of any involvement in an appeal hearing.

Sarjiyo (Sawad)

Aided and abetted main conspiritors, helped pack and mix chemicals for the bombs. Is serving a life sentance in prison.

Ali Imron

The brother of Mukhlas and Amrozi, he cooperated with police after being caught and is serving a life sentance for helping build the bombs.

Mubarok

Currently serving a life sentance for heping transport the explosives to Bali.

I believe they should all be executed they killed or helped kill 202 people !! As for Drug Dealers, I do not care where they are from they should be executed and the third time a drug user is convicted they too should die!! People need to understand the need for "Self Discipline"..

[daveAustin]

So consequently you have no sympathy for criminals in Islamic countries who get their arms amputated for stealing?

I certainly don't. Thieves are right up there with drug smugglers in my book. Scum.

[cookee68]

Well with that all said I guess that's it. no sympathy from me, if you know the score then don't do it, simple

[ebonykap]

Just hurry up and flick the switch. Then we can discuss some important issues.

[cookee68]

Yeah right, Indonesian justice at its finest.

Meanwhile the majority of the Bali bombing gang which killed 202 innocent people are serving life sentences or less.

Abu Bakar Bashir

He is considered the spiritual leader of radical Islamic group Jemaah Islamiah. In December 2010 Bashir was charged in relation to the discovery of a paramilitary camp in Aceh in 2010, which he is accused of funding. On June 15, 2011 he was found guilty of using violence, or the threat of violence, to incite terrorism and was handed a 15-year prison sentence. His lawyers say he will appeal. In 2005 Bashir was found guilty of conspiracy over the 2002 Bali bombings and sentenced to two and a half years in prison. He was released in June 2006 after being cleared of any involvement in an appeal hearing.

Sarjiyo (Sawad)

Aided and abetted main conspiritors, helped pack and mix chemicals for the bombs. Is serving a life sentance in prison.

Ali Imron

The brother of Mukhlas and Amrozi, he cooperated with police after being caught and is serving a life sentance for helping build the bombs.

Mubarok

Currently serving a life sentance for heping transport the explosives to Bali.

So what is your point, they too would have been sentenced to death too, had they smuggled drugs in with their bombing equipment, the law says death for drug dealers, it is in black and white, that is their law, whether people like it or not, like some countries allow marriage to girls as young as 9 years old, in my eyes they are Pedo's, but to them they are allowed and see no wrong in it, Laws are different in every country, and every one should be aware of them before they break them simple, just like many Muslim factors don't care either with their laws, It is what it is

[ChiangmaiRob]

It's real simple. You know converting from Islam is illegal. If you convert from Islam, you know you're breaking the law. As a result, you have zero rights when you get caught.

No sympathy from me.

Point is that the statement is only going to work in so far as the law is just.

Also, knowing in advance that the breaking of an unjust law brings with it the death penalty, doesn't entail that the person so breaking it deserves to die. Stupid perhaps, but deserving to die I don't think so. There would be no population pressure anywhere in the world if stupidity had that consequence.

Drunk drivers cause far more deaths, but there's no clamor to have those law breakers put to death. Perhaps we should?

If they know the possible penalty is death but they still choose to flout the law and take the chance, then yes they certainly do deserve to die, on two counts, one, being a drug dealer and two, being stupid enough to gamble your life for the sake of a few thousand dollars. I totally agree with you on the DD issue, but as far as I know, no country has the death penalty for that offence, regardless of the results of the drunk drivers actions, so your argument simply is not valid!

[Dannyboy666]

Yeah right, Indonesian justice at its finest.

Meanwhile the majority of the Bali bombing gang which killed 202 innocent people are serving life sentences or less.

Abu Bakar Bashir

He is considered the spiritual leader of radical Islamic group Jemaah Islamiah. In December 2010 Bashir was charged in relation to the discovery of a paramilitary camp in Aceh in 2010, which he is accused of funding. On June 15, 2011 he was found guilty of using violence, or the threat of violence, to incite terrorism . and was handed a 15-year prison sentence. His lawyers say he will appeal. In 2005 Bashir was found guilty of conspiracy over the 2002 Bali bombings and sentenced to two and a half years in prison. He was released in June 2006 after being cleared of any involvement in an appeal hearing.

Sarjiyo (Sawad)

Aided and abetted main conspiritors, helped pack and mix chemicals for the bombs. Is serving a life sentance in prison.

Ali Imron

The brother of Mukhlas and Amrozi, he cooperated with police after being caught and is serving a life sentance for helping build the bombs.

Mubarok

Currently serving a life sentance for heping transport the explosives to Bali.

I believe they should all be executed they killed or helped kill 202 people !! As for Drug Dealers, I do not care where they are from they should be executed and the third time a drug user is convicted they too should die!! People need to understand the need for "Self Discipline"..

. Get Over Yourself...

[Neurath]

It’s a shame that these two men don’t have 3 lives each so that they can each be executed three times. This situation would at least have the virtue of providing additional opportunity to appear uncompromisingly tough on crime whilst displaying the manly and un-Christian virtue of showing no mercy or sympathy.

3 Reasons given suggesting that these three deserve to be shot dead by firing squad:

1. Drug smugglers deserve to die and they’re drug smugglers

2. Law breakers deserve to die and they’re law breakers

3. If you know a possible consequence of an action and you’re action brings with it that consequence then that consequence is justified, i.e., you deserve it. For example, you know that a possible consequence of playing cricket is that you might be hit on the head by the ball and die. If you are hit on the head by a ball and die, then you have deserved it. RIP Phil Hughes. Another example: every woman knows that it’s dangerous to walk home drunk and alone late at night but no-one would say that the woman deserves to be raped or beaten.

Number 2 above is plain nonsense. Nobody believes that all law breakers deserve to die. After all, prostitution is illegal in Thailand.

Number 3 is also nonsense – foreknowledge of a consequence does not justify that consequence.

So that leaves number 1. They deserve to die to because they’re convicted drug smugglers and convicted drug smugglers deserve to die and should not be shown any sympathy. This has the virtue of not being nonsense, but is it just? I suppose the principle here comes down to this: heroin smugglers knowingly or unknowing cause so much pain and death that they deserve to die for the pain and death they have caused in the past and might cause in the future.

[tonypace02]

Yes, it is a terrible thing drug dealers do to people, holding guns to their heads and telling them, "You're going to take this gram of heroin or I am pulling the trigger."

[Prbkk]

The president of Indonesia made a point of how many people die from heroin on a daily basis in his country, He equates heroin smuggling with murder.

What he doesn't say though is that the drug trade is controlled by the military. It is known by EVERYONE who has ever had dealings with that cesspit of a country. He also doesn't acknowledge that one of his own senior advisers has admitted culpability in the murder of the human rights lawyer who exposed military involvement in drugs and extra-judicial killings ( Munir, murdered on a Garuda flight to Amsterdam).

The hypocrisy of Indonesia , including its slimy president, knows no bounds. Indonesia pays 'blood money' to stop the execution of their citizens in Saudi Arabia and lobbies for clemency for those sentenced to death for drugs.

It might well be too late for Chan and Sukamaran but just wait to see the Indonesians crawl when it comes to executing the Brit on death row...because they know that the UK will involve the EU. There is nothing like the prospect of losing money to see these cretins change their attitude to capital punishment.

At least one good thing will come out of this: Australia will simply give up on attempts to engage Indonesia.

[boomerangutang]

Indonesian officials are painting themselves as cruel and ignorant.

What is it about SE Asian leaders? In Brunei, they want to instate Sharia for everyone (tourists included?). In Malaysia, there's a continuing 17 yr old political witch hunt against Anwar. Burma and Thailand are run by self-appointed old men in military uniforms. The list goes on......

[Yann55]

The president of Indonesia made a point of how many people die from heroin on a daily basis in his country, He equates heroin smuggling with murder.

What he doesn't say though is that the drug trade is controlled by the military. It is known by EVERYONE who has ever had dealings with that cesspit of a country. He also doesn't acknowledge that one of his own senior advisers has admitted culpability in the murder of the human rights lawyer who exposed military involvement in drugs and extra-judicial killings ( Munir, murdered on a Garuda flight to Amsterdam).

The hypocrisy of Indonesia , including its slimy president, knows no bounds. Indonesia pays 'blood money' to stop the execution of their citizens in Saudi Arabia and lobbies for clemency for those sentenced to death for drugs.

It might well be too late for Chan and Sukamaran but just wait to see the Indonesians crawl when it comes to executing the Brit on death row...because they know that the UK will involve the EU. There is nothing like the prospect of losing money to see these cretins change their attitude to capital punishment.

At least one good thing will come out of this: Australia will simply give up on attempts to engage Indonesia.

Well... there's a hate post in all its glory.

Is that Slobodan Milosevic on your avatar ? Sure looks like him. Your hero perhaps ?

Edited February 25, 2015 by Yann55

[samran]

The president of Indonesia made a point of how many people die from heroin on a daily basis in his country, He equates heroin smuggling with murder.

What he doesn't say though is that the drug trade is controlled by the military. It is known by EVERYONE who has ever had dealings with that cesspit of a country. He also doesn't acknowledge that one of his own senior advisers has admitted culpability in the murder of the human rights lawyer who exposed military involvement in drugs and extra-judicial killings ( Munir, murdered on a Garuda flight to Amsterdam).

The hypocrisy of Indonesia , including its slimy president, knows no bounds. Indonesia pays 'blood money' to stop the execution of their citizens in Saudi Arabia and lobbies for clemency for those sentenced to death for drugs.

It might well be too late for Chan and Sukamaran but just wait to see the Indonesians crawl when it comes to executing the Brit on death row...because they know that the UK will involve the EU. There is nothing like the prospect of losing money to see these cretins change their attitude to capital punishment.

At least one good thing will come out of this: Australia will simply give up on attempts to engage Indonesia.

Well... there's a hate post in all its glory.

Is that Slobodan Milosevic on your avatar ? Sure looks like him.

Apart from his last two of three sentences, which is best guess speculation, what is factually wrong with his post?

[ABCer]

The whole thrust of this 'International Reaction' to this particular death penalty is misdirected.

Australia should know its place.

The attempted Legal action was STUPID. And it is really a shame.

As to the lives of the smugglers - it is of value only to them.

Not to me.

Not to the posters here.

Not to Australia.