Thai opinion: Hitler does not live here, nor does Mao or Mussolini

[webfact]

TELL IT AS IT IS
Hitler does not live here, nor does Mao or Mussolini
Pornpimol Kanchanalak
Special to The Nation

BANGKOK: -- And J Edgar Hoover does not reside at the Hoover Institute, continuing his habit of collecting secret files, at its base in Stanford University - the alma mater of Doug Bandow, who writes for Forbes Magazine, and of myself.

Bandow's latest article in Forbes, on the death of liberty in Thailand, is a difficult piece to read. That's not because of his point of view, to which he is completely entitled, but because it is devoid of fact and logic. He quoted four "primary" sources - they are Freedom House, Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International and the Economist. But citing "primary" sources is hardly the same as using facts obtained from thorough investigation and information gathering.

The rest of his article seems to rely on the accounts fed to him by unnamed, unsubstantiated sources - except one. He quoted Yingluck Shinawatra from her Facebook post on the day of her conviction: "Today democracy in Thailand died, and so did the rule of law." He went on to say that her conviction was a political charade, and that her rice scheme might have been foolish, but it was not a crime.

Time to pause for a Fact Check.

Granted that Ms Yingluck, as an elected government official, "symbolised" democracy, no matter how shallow the word had become in that context, but her conviction was by no means equivalent to the death of democracy. Democracy in Thailand has been terminally ill for more than a decade, and one of its afflictions is corruption of epidemic proportions. Money politics, ignorance caused by a dysfunctional education system and deep-rooted fraud in its ministry, self-serving insidious propaganda, cronyism and culture of impunity have for years incubated the country's political malaise. With it, democracy in Thailand has turned slowly into kleptocracy and mob rule. If democracy has died in Thailand, it did not die on the day of Yingluck's conviction, it did not die on May 22 with the military coup; it died a long time ago. Yes, we have had elections, but they meant little more to democracy than a ventilator does to a body that is clinically dead, its chest being pumped up and down by the machine, though there's no brain activity and all other vital organs have failed.

And if any of the Western media and NGOs so keen on human rights practised what they preached, their hearts would go out to the many Thais - and not just the "urban elite, but the downtrodden citizens in the heartland whose lands were stolen at gun point by politicians who think they are above the law. These individuals had no wherewithal to protest because surviving was already hard. Villagers kept voting for candidates they knew were rotten to the core, because, if they didn't, they knew they would get into trouble down the road with canvassers and local politicians who they were and where they lived. To them, human rights were a luxury they neither had nor knew not how to acquire. Every year, with little or no money left, they had to buy new seeds for the planting season, because the GMO seeds they bought last year from large conglomerates with deep pockets and tight political ties were made not to reproduce. Money was paid to government officials to look the other way. Human rights, anyone?

Bandow quoted The Economist's view that the Shinawatras offended the old elites who "liked to think of the King traditionally atop an ordered hierarchy with deferential peasants at the bottom of the grateful for royal charity". The implication here is that those old elites conspired to bring the downfall of the Shinawatras.

Nothing could be farther from the truth.

While it is true that former prime minister Thaksin was big on populist programmes for the rural poor, the reason for his downfall was not the Palace elites' jealousy, but the runaway corruption of his government and hubris of powerful politicians whose ruinous policies brought massive street demonstrations to topple his government. Think Ferdinand Marcos, who looted the country once perceived as the jewel of Southeast Asia to the point where millions of Filipinos are now living on dumpsites. Thailand followed in the same footsteps in the last decade and a half.

In his article, Bandow placed General Prayut Chan-o-cha on a par with Hitler and Mao Tse Tung in terms of repression. He also put Suthep Thaugsuban on a level with Mussolini. It is hard to believe he was serious. Hitler, Mao and Mussolini killed millions of innocent people for no other reasons than political expediency, personal hang-ups and hatred. That's not what happened in Thailand. Bandow talked about Thai citizens being incarcerated, beaten, mistreated, but he produced no evidence, only offered innuendo in an attempt to make valid his assumptions. But his arguments have too many holes to hold water.

As for the "accusations" of corruption that he said were one of the injustices levied against the Shinawatras, Bandow should spend some time reading the legal accounts of the National Anti-Corruption Commission and the courts. Then he would understand that the verdicts against the Shinawatras were not haphazard or politically motivated. The rule of law in Thailand did not die because of the convictions, it prevailed.

It is laudable for the West to tout democracy, freedom of speech and liberty from its bully pulpit - a superb platform to advocate an agenda. These are things of virtue and worthy ideals. But facts and truths should not be sacrificed for the sake of the attempt to push such agenda. Doing so is an injustice, a faulty means to an end.

I learned about brutal injustice from the book "Uncle Tom's Cabin" by Harriet Stowe, given to me by my father. But I did not understand it fully until I witnessed racial discrimination firsthand in the US. The book "Without Sanctuary", which details lynching, gave me a stark picture of the injustice done to black Americans. I do not blame the Western media or even Mr Bandow for not being able to fully comprehend what actually happened in Thailand and to its people. I only ask them to leave room for doubt in their perceptions and conclusions about this country. To paraphrase the abolitionist Harriet Tubman, "I've heard 'Uncle Tom's Cabin' read, and I tell you Mrs Stowe's pen hasn't begun to paint what slavery is as I have seen it in the far South. I've seen de real thing, and I don't want to see it on no stage or in no theatre."

Many of us in Thailand know what actually happened here, and the story from the Western bully pulpit is not quite a "bully" story for us.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/opinion/Hitler-does-not-live-here-nor-does-Mao-or-Mussolin-30254885.html


-- The Nation 2015-02-26

[BSJ]

I just skimmed this article which appears to be yet another page filler......maybe half a page!

[tbthailand]

Junta apologists have it too easy beating up the foreigners when the foreigners hold the mirror up to Thailand's elite.

Unfortunately, this article is just a full-court press of yellow propaganda points...

Congratulations on another meaningless editorial...

[NeverSure]

I have a friend who likes to say "Those who can, do. Those who can't either teach, work for the government, or write editorials.

[zaphod reborn]

Mr. Bandow and Mr. Pornpimol are completely devoid of credibility.

Signed,

A Cal Alumni

[tbthailand]

Bandow is a fellow at the Cato Institute which puts him about as far to the political right in the USA as is possible to be and still maintain some semblance of respect.

The political right in the USA has been deafeningly quiet on Thailand - maybe it's not that important to them? But Bandow, to his credit, speaks out. And he does the relatively simple job of pointing out the problems which the 'NCPO' exemplifes. He believes in freedom, democracy and self-governance and he makes his case with (at the end) recommended steps for Thailand.

He makes the following point about half-way through:

There are plenty of apologists for dictatorship, many of whom take support for democracy as shilling for Thaksin.

which, not surprisingly, reflects the attitude of many posters here. But he doesn't give Thaksin a free ride, he simply points out the rampant corruption exists on all sides of the political spectrum and that it is not limited to politicians.

Over the last decade, and certainly over the last 9 months, the elite/military alliance have done so many things to eliminate freedom, liberty, self-governance, and human rights in Thailand, that Bandow had a wide palette of examples to use in his article. He did a reasonable job of pulling together the most obvious among those and comes to the conclusion which is the title of his article.

[trogers]

Hitler has fled to Dubai.

[ExPratt]

I think the article hits the Nail on the Head about what is going on here.

[noitom]

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Bandow is a fellow at the Cato Institute which puts him about as far to the political right in the USA as is possible to be and still maintain some semblance of respect.

The political right in the USA has been deafeningly quiet on Thailand - maybe it's not that important to them? But Bandow, to his credit, speaks out. And he does the relatively simple job of pointing out the problems which the 'NCPO' exemplifes. He believes in freedom, democracy and self-governance and he makes his case with (at the end) recommended steps for Thailand.

He makes the following point about half-way through:

There are plenty of apologists for dictatorship, many of whom take support for democracy as shilling for Thaksin.

which, not surprisingly, reflects the attitude of many posters here. But he doesn't give Thaksin a free ride, he simply points out the rampant corruption exists on all sides of the political spectrum and that it is not limited to politicians. alt=whistling.gif>

Over the last decade, and certainly over the last 9 months, the elite/military alliance have done so many things to eliminate freedom, liberty, self-governance, and human rights in Thailand, that Bandow had a wide palette of examples to use in his article. He did a reasonable job of pulling together the most obvious among those and comes to the conclusion which is the title of his article.

Great post and review.

[bkkgooner]

The article poking at the organizations such as Human Rights Watch is insulting nonsense considering the outstanding report that was carried out in regards to the 2010 crackdown.

The Thais inability to look after their own affairs and their their outstanding sensitivity when they are criticized externally is annoying in the extreme.

Does the writer somehow think that NGO people don't already understand how the voting system works in Thailand? The sad fact is that there are a group of posters on this forum that have a more extensive knowledge of Thai politics that the majority of Thais - now how sad is that?

[noitom]

Doug Bandow's article seems to support his contentions with obvious facts on Thailand. Such as Suthep's commandeering government institutions much like another elite establishment campaigner Sondhi did by marshaling his followers, yellow shirts, to close the Bangkok international airport. Much thanks to this Thai writer for making me aware of the Doug Bandow article. I found it very insightful.

[geriatrickid]

The Nation has an odd choice of writers. Isn't this woman a convicted US felon?

United States of America,

Appellant
v.
Pornpimol Kanchanalak a/k/a Pornpimol Parichattkal, and Duangnet Georgie Kronenberg,Appellees

Consolidated with No. 99-3034

Appeals from the United States District Court for the District of Columbia (No. 98cr00241)
Jonathan Biran, Attorney, United States Department of Justice, argued the cause and was on the briefs for appellant. Eric L. Yaffe, Attorney, entered an appearance. Reid H. Weingarten argued the cause for appellees. Withchim on the brief were Erik L. Kitchen, Brian M. Heberlig, and James Hamilton. Michael Spafford entered an appearance.

Before: Wald, Silberman and Tatel, Circuit Judges.

Opinion for the Court filed by Circuit Judge Wald.

Wald, Circuit Judge: The government charged Pornpimolc"Pauline" Kanchanalak (aka Pornpimol Parichattkal) and Duangnet "Georgie" Kronenberg with a scheme to disguise illegal hard money contributions and soft money donations from foreign nationals and corporations to national and state political committees. Defendants were also alleged to have caused political committees to file reports with the Federal Election Commission ("FEC") falsely identifying lawful permanent residents as the source of funds that actually originated with foreign nationals and corporations in violation of 18 U.S.C. ss 2 (, 1001. The government argued that s 441e of the Federal Election Campaign Act ("FECA") prohibits any infusion of money from foreign nationals into federal, state, and local elections and that section 104.8 of the FEC regulations requires that political committees report the true source of their contributions and donations. Defendants asserted that as to both hard and soft money, political committees were not required to report the true sources of their receipts, and as to soft money, FECA did not restrict such donations by foreign nationals

Interesting.

[FangFerang]

The Nation has an odd choice of writers. Isn't this woman a convicted US felon?

United States of America,

Appellant

v.

Pornpimol Kanchanalak a/k/a Pornpimol Parichattkal, and Duangnet Georgie Kronenberg,Appellees

Consolidated with No. 99-3034

Appeals from the United States District Court for the District of Columbia (No. 98cr00241)

Jonathan Biran, Attorney, United States Department of Justice, argued the cause and was on the briefs for appellant. Eric L. Yaffe, Attorney, entered an appearance. Reid H. Weingarten argued the cause for appellees. Withchim on the brief were Erik L. Kitchen, Brian M. Heberlig, and James Hamilton. Michael Spafford entered an appearance.

Before: Wald, Silberman and Tatel, Circuit Judges.

Opinion for the Court filed by Circuit Judge Wald.

Wald, Circuit Judge: The government charged Pornpimolc"Pauline" Kanchanalak (aka Pornpimol Parichattkal) and Duangnet "Georgie" Kronenberg with a scheme to disguise illegal hard money contributions and soft money donations from foreign nationals and corporations to national and state political committees. Defendants were also alleged to have caused political committees to file reports with the Federal Election Commission ("FEC") falsely identifying lawful permanent residents as the source of funds that actually originated with foreign nationals and corporations in violation of 18 U.S.C. ss 2 (, 1001. The government argued that s 441e of the Federal Election Campaign Act ("FECA") prohibits any infusion of money from foreign nationals into federal, state, and local elections and that section 104.8 of the FEC regulations requires that political committees report the true source of their contributions and donations. Defendants asserted that as to both hard and soft money, political committees were not required to report the true sources of their receipts, and as to soft money, FECA did not restrict such donations by foreign nationals

Interesting.

Wow -- excellent research. My new hero!

[Rykbanlor]

Good work Geriatrickid.

[Mot Dang]

Bandow's latest article in Forbes, ................ is a difficult piece to read.

So is this !

[theslime]

Duang Kroneberg, sounds like a Hitler in Thailand alias, ring the yanks.

[docshock13]

The Nation has an odd choice of writers. Isn't this woman a convicted US felon?

United States of America,

Appellant

v.

Pornpimol Kanchanalak a/k/a Pornpimol Parichattkal, and Duangnet Georgie Kronenberg,Appellees

Consolidated with No. 99-3034

Appeals from the United States District Court for the District of Columbia (No. 98cr00241)

Jonathan Biran, Attorney, United States Department of Justice, argued the cause and was on the briefs for appellant. Eric L. Yaffe, Attorney, entered an appearance. Reid H. Weingarten argued the cause for appellees. Withchim on the brief were Erik L. Kitchen, Brian M. Heberlig, and James Hamilton. Michael Spafford entered an appearance.

Before: Wald, Silberman and Tatel, Circuit Judges.

Opinion for the Court filed by Circuit Judge Wald.

Wald, Circuit Judge: The government charged Pornpimolc"Pauline" Kanchanalak (aka Pornpimol Parichattkal) and Duangnet "Georgie" Kronenberg with a scheme to disguise illegal hard money contributions and soft money donations from foreign nationals and corporations to national and state political committees. Defendants were also alleged to have caused political committees to file reports with the Federal Election Commission ("FEC") falsely identifying lawful permanent residents as the source of funds that actually originated with foreign nationals and corporations in violation of 18 U.S.C. ss 2 (, 1001. The government argued that s 441e of the Federal Election Campaign Act ("FECA") prohibits any infusion of money from foreign nationals into federal, state, and local elections and that section 104.8 of the FEC regulations requires that political committees report the true source of their contributions and donations. Defendants asserted that as to both hard and soft money, political committees were not required to report the true sources of their receipts, and as to soft money, FECA did not restrict such donations by foreign nationals

Interesting.

Yep. Interesting indeed. Thanks for posting this info. When I saw the author, I just shook my head. When I read the shameless boasting about her ivy league education, I nearly puked. This woman is a self-aggrandizing mouthpiece for the amart.

[klauskunkel]

Thai opinion: Hitler does not live here, nor does Mao or Mussolini

Farang opinion: They are all dead

which opinion is more correct?

[RKASA]

Is this the same person?

April 21, 2001 | From Associated Press

A Thai businesswoman charged with campaign finance violations was sentenced Friday to three years of probation and six months of house arrest and was ordered to pay a $3,000 fine, the Justice Department said. Pauline Kanchanalak pleaded guilty in June to making illegal contributions of more than $690,000 to Democrats in return for access to former President Clinton and other officials.

[paddyjenkins]

What is it about Thais that make them so pathetically sensitive to criticism? Its like their whole perception of themselves just rests on a flimsy house of cards whereupon they collapse into an insecure mess at the tiniest external perturbation.

[IMA_FARANG]

I have a friend who likes to say "Those who can, do. Those who can't either teach, work for the government, or write editorials.

---------------------------

The correct quote should be:

Those that can do, do.

Those that can not do run for office as politicians, get elected, and only promise to do.

Those that can neither do, or promise to do, become diplomats or write editorials.

[Bluespunk]

" the downtrodden citizens in the heartland whose lands were stolen at gun point by politicians who think they are above the law."

Mostly they are.

[DaddyWarbucks]

Hitler has fled to Dubai.

...yes, but the clan are still here and constitute a clear and present danger.

Bandow doesn't know his ass from his elbow.

[Bluespunk]

"I learned about brutal injustice from the book "Uncle Tom's Cabin" by Harriet Stowe, given to me by my father. But I did not understand it fully until I witnessed racial discrimination firsthand in the US."

Weren't paying too much attention at home then.

[A1Str8]

Of course they don't live here. They are dead.

[mrtoad]

I thought Hitler was selling fried chicken in Thailand

[ianf]

I think the article hits the Nail on the Head about what is going on here.

Absolutely. There was a letter in the Tribune a few weeks ago from an American who described the torture and so on the the junta was responsible for here in Thailand. Pure fantasy. He also said how the population opposed the junta and were living in fear. Must have been a different country. And once again the Americans quote Freedom House, an organisation closely linked to Thaksin and his advisers and Human Rights Watch also have dubious connections with people associated with Thaksin. As for Amnesty? I used to work for Amnesty during the 70s and have always respected their research. But their report on Thailand was pure speculation and drivel. I just wonder who nobbled Amnesty because there is 'a whole lot of nobblin' going' on' - due to the influence that billions of baht can have on the world stage. I did have some correspondece with Amnesty about their report but off course they believed their own lies. Sad really, that's one organisation that no longer has my support.

[SheungWan]

Yesterday, the guys in bed with Thaksin were oh so against the metropolitan elites and today they are oh so keen supporters of Forbes Magazine. Well fancy that!

[Strangebrew]

Ok We all the know stated Guys don't live here cause for the most part have been dead years but Hitler dose have a chicken shack here and is or was on a student mural back a year or so ago. Yes we know that most police here are corrupted to the bone. But on the flip side so are quite a few farang's here are crooks.But to be fair most Politicians crooks not only here but elsewhere as well, just here there just more out in the open. One can only hope one day the corrupt will be held accountable. Other than that it is a Thai problem for Thai's to correct. We can sit on the sidelines and piss and moan but it will fall on dead ears and do no good.

[ratcatcher]

Is this the same person?

April 21, 2001 | From Associated Press

A Thai businesswoman charged with campaign finance violations was sentenced Friday to three years of probation and six months of house arrest and was ordered to pay a $3,000 fine, the Justice Department said. Pauline Kanchanalak pleaded guilty in June to making illegal contributions of more than $690,000 to Democrats in return for access to former President Clinton and other officials.

Same person.