Quebec coroner to release report on deaths of sisters in Thailand

[Lite Beer]

Quebec coroner to release report on deaths of sisters in Thailand

CBC's Fifth Estate concluded exposure to bedbug pesticide may have led to deaths of sisters from Pohénégamook

A Quebec coroner will present her report into the deaths of sisters Audrey Bélanger and Noémi Bélanger of Pohénégamook, Que. who died under mysterious circumstances in Thailand in 2012.

The report will be presented at a news conference 10:30 a.m. ET Monday at the Rivière-du-Loup High School, about 2.5 hours from Quebec City.

A joint investigation by Radio-Canada's Enquête and CBC's Fifth Estate concluded a highly toxic pesticide used to control bedbugs in some holiday hotels in Asia may have caused the Bélanger sisters' deaths.

Audrey and Noémi Bélanger set off on a trip through Thailand in 2012.

Days after they arrived at the popular tourist destination of Phi Phi Island, a maid found the sisters dead in their hotel room.

Both were covered in vomit, with their fingernails and toenails tinged blue.

Not the first

The CBC/Radio-Canada investigation learned that the Bélanger sisters are not the only travellers whose deaths may be linked to this pesticide.

In May of 2009, two other tourists staying on Phi Phi Island also died mysteriously.

Norwegian Julie Bergheim and American Jill St. Onge were staying in adjacent rooms at the Laleena Guest House, and they experienced similar symptoms including vomiting, dizziness and blue fingernails and toenails. Both were dead within 24 hours.

Four years after her daughter’s death, Bergheim’s mother, Ina Thoresen, received a report from the Norwegian Institute of Public Health. Authorities there had consulted with leading experts from around the world about what happened to her daughter.

Although they could not state the exact cause of Bergheim’s death, they concluded that the most likely cause was poisoning from the phosphine gas released by the pesticide.

The Norwegian report also states that Canadian medical examiners found traces of the gas from aluminum phosphide in the bodies of the Bélanger sisters.

Source: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/quebec-coroner-to-release-report-on-deaths-of-sisters-in-thailand-1.2977667

--CBS Radio Canada 2015-03-02

[tomacht8]

If there is any bug spray that not only kill insects but also kills people, then they must take it off the market and ban it quickly.
Reminds me also of the incident in Chiang Mai.

Edited March 2, 2015 by tomacht8

[96tehtarp]

Ya Lannate

It's the most popular suicide "medicine" in Thailand. It kills very quickly. This although I have no information or reason to believe this was the pesticide used in this case. We'll have to wait for the report from Quebec.

It's very sad that this country has such poor education among people who are given hotelier licences that they through total ignorance and complete lack of education are able to literally poison their guests while they sleep in their beds.... found covered in vomit with blue fingernails. It is revolting and a shame.

What kind of decent westerner would ever imagine there is a risk of being poisoned by a pesticide in a hotel room. It is an unconscionable result of abject ignorance.

Edited March 2, 2015 by 96tehtarp

[clockman]

Remember Down Town Inn. Chiang Mai! The Mayor or the Mayors son owned. The deaths never explained. Then they knocked it down. T.I.T.

[Eirene]

There has been a recent case of phosphine poisoning in Alberta.The mother brought back the pellet form of phosphine from a visit to Pakistan to fight a bed bug infestation. When the pellets are exposed to the air they react with moisture and release the phosphine gas. Five children were hospitalized. Two have died, one more is still in hospital and two have been released. RIP little ones.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/phosphine-poisoning-2nd-child-dies-in-edmonton-hospital-1.2974258

[Somtamnication]

It will be denied till the earth is proved flat.

[katana]

Ya Lannate

It's the most popular suicide "medicine" in Thailand. It kills very quickly. This although I have no information or reason to believe this was the pesticide used in this case. We'll have to wait for the report from Quebec.

It's very sad that this country has such poor education among people who are given hotelier licences that they through total ignorance and complete lack of education are able to literally poison their guests while they sleep in their beds.... found covered in vomit with blue fingernails. It is revolting and a shame.

What kind of decent westerner would ever imagine there is a risk of being poisoned by a pesticide in a hotel room. It is an unconscionable result of abject ignorance.

er..the OP says it was aluminium phosphide/phospine not lannate...

[chooka]

Remember Down Town Inn. Chiang Mai! The Mayor or the Mayors son owned. The deaths never explained. Then they knocked it down. T.I.T.

I believe they died from coincidence, well according to the BIB.

[Strangebrew]

In other news the bedbugs were reported to be in good health and thriving.

[geriatrickid]

https://www.coroner.gouv.qc.ca/index.php?id=68&tx_news_pi1%5Bnews%5D=145&tx_news_pi1%5Bcontroller%5D=News&tx_news_pi1%5Baction%5D=detail&cHash=9bfcc03e2cf456c333a433782863595e

The autopsy and detailed forensic report are a must read for Thailand's medical-judicial authorities and paint their professionalism in a negative light. In scientific circles, the report is akin to a very strong rebuke. Highlights are as follows;

- The autopsy carried out by the coroner's office at the judicial sciences and medical legal pathology laboratory in Montreal was hampered by the poor (improper)) conservation of the bodies before they were embalmed.

- The Thai coroner concluded that the cause of death was DEET intoxication. However, none of the evidence supports this conclusion. The Canadian laboratory determined that there was insufficient concentration of DEET to cause bodily harm. The supervising scientist Dr. Roussel went on to point out that the scientific literature doesn't even support such a claim. The DEET concentration found in the blood samples (prior and post Thai mortem) were indicative simply of someone using a topical insect repellent.

- The Quebec investigators had a strong suspicion that phosphine was implicated based upon their extensive blood and tissue examination. A consulting neuropathologist examined brain tissue and concluded the injury was consistent with phosphine poisoning.

- Since 2009, twenty western tourists have died in similar circumstances in countries in Southeast Asia , including two in the archipelago of Phi Phi Islands in 2009. All victims manifested the same signs and symptoms as the Bélanger sisters.The respective EU investigators all share a common conclusion that implicates phosphine.

Additional information not mentioned in the coroner's report is that an effort was made to consult with other investigators and notes were shared. There was an exchange of professional opinions and the results and work of other forensic experts provided guidance.

This report is mind boggling. In most countries it would bring about the forced resignation or termination of the original investigator(s). The incorrect conclusion of DEET despite all the evidence that showed otherwise, brings Thailand's forensic investigations into disrepute and requires all reports issued by the Thai investigators to be treated as unreliable. At the very least this requires a strong statement of concern from the Canadian Ministry of foreign affairs and if the Canadian Ambassador can tear himself away from social functions, a protest to the Thai foreign minister. The Norwegian forensic investigators warned that there would be similar incidents and they were ignored. The mother of the Norwegian victim has been fighting hard to make sure that her daughter's case is not forgotten. It's up to the foreign diplomatic community to say something before other young people die needlessly.

And if I seem excited, you bet I am. This is just awful. Bogus science combined with misleading information and sloppiness. Some might conclude that there was an intent to cover up these deaths. Others might say it was incompetence. All I know is that the conclusions drawn by the Thai investigators were wrong and they have refused to acknowledge that they were wrong.

[alfalfa19]

I remember the cops implying that the death occurred because there was a bottle of ibuprofen in the sisters' room. Shortly after that , the brilliant conclusion was changed to them drinking insecticide to get high. A couple of years ago, I used to believe the pronouncements of thai officials and authorities and police spokesmen. That has changed 180 degrees since the advent of this case, the ko tao debacle, and a few other things.

[Rykbanlor]

ANd I have a buddy with a business on Phi Phi, and he says they were killed by bedbug gas - He told me this last year around the Koh To deaths time, long before this report was released. The owners of the hotel had sufficient influence or money to keep the heat off their backs.

[godden]

Suicide?

[guimz]

They wanted to get high with the gas that's all !

Seriously scary to live in a country where negligent homicides and murder can be covered up that easily.

[Lupatria]

It will be denied till the earth is proved flat.

How many people in this country would bet their flipflops on the idea the earth is not disc shaped?

[Jim walker]

So in roundabout words Thailand was correct all along as normal as we lead the world regarding most sciences that is why it was easy for us to come to a conclusion much quicker than Canada

[Thaddeus]

It will be denied till the earth is proved flat.

How many people in this country would bet their flipflops on the idea the earth is not disc shaped?

Sun England and sun Thailand not same, not wake up same time and not hot.

( a Thai said that to me once, so there's a clue)

[Phil Water]

Why did the Quebec Coroner take so long to release their report? This has been widely known for years.

[geriatrickid]

Why did the Quebec Coroner take so long to release their report? This has been widely known for years.

Good question. The investigation was thorough and extensive. It had to be because the Thai medico-legal officials had insisted it was DEET poisoning. Here's why;

1. The bodies arrived in Canada in poor condition. When bodies have been embalmed and subject to decay, more extensive tests must be done to ensure that the embalming did not taint the bodies.

2. The Coroner's investigation examined blood, organs and related tissue and the physical possessions of the 2 girls. (This included clothes, baggage, books, everything.)

3. The first phase tested for drugs, both legal and illegal. This included opioids, anti-depressants, stimulants,, and general OTC products such as tylenol and aspirin. Then testing was done to detect 32 inorganic metals (including heavy metals). 67 volatile chemicals were tested for. (These volatile chemicals include such organic members of the aldehyde, ketone and alcohol families.) Then 700 other substances were tested for. These ran the range from common pesticides, herbicides and fungicides to common household chemicals. Everything was looked at. The kids medical histories were also reviewed.

4. The only products found was a light trace of DEET at a level associated with topical insect repellent use and the anti malarial proguanil, that was prescribed and well within the safe limits of its use as a prophylactic.

​5. The additional attention was required because the investigation had been tainted by the Thai assertion of DEET poisoning. The coroner was obliged to rule out DEET and any other possible excuses the Thai authorities would offer up. The coroner had a good idea as to the likely cause because they had done extensive research into the records shared by EU medical experts. This is why a neuropathologist was involved.

In respect to your comment "widely known for years", it wasn't. What there was, was a strong suspicion. In fact the Quebec coroner's report concludes that the likely cause was phosphine, because the brain damage was consistent with exposure.It is not a definitive finding. It would have been definitive if the Thai forensic authorities had done a proper autopsy at the outset and examined the brain tissue properly and tested for the phosphine. In plain language, the Quebec coroner's report suggests that the Thai forensic "experts" did shoddy work and were not thorough. I don't think it unreasonable to conclude that this was either incompetence or a cover up. I believe it was gross incompetence.

This is heavy duty sh*t because it indicates that the Thai forensic conclusions are neither reliable nor thorough. In the developed world, this would typically result in a full blown inquiry into the competency, and conduct of the Thai forensic unit.

This is the legacy of Dr. Porntip Rotchanasunan, our lady of the bogus bomb detectors. She ran that department for many years, up until 2013 as director of CIFS, until she was removed. Those are her people. It would be nice to hear what she has to say on this fiasco, now that the military junta has brought her back.

Edited March 3, 2015 by geriatrickid

[razer]

So ..... has the pesticide been outlawed by the government?

[Biloger]

I have been in numerous rooms in Thailand in which the smell of pesticide was present.

I always thought it was for mosquitos. Did not know about bed bugs back then. I was probably lucky the concentration of pesticide was not high enough to kill me. But

a few years ago after an anormal ecg, I had a complete heart investigation done. They found a part of my heart is dead...like I had a minor heart attack. Now I'm thinking...can our heart be damaged by some level of pesticide during our sleep?

[Seastallion]

https://www.coroner.gouv.qc.ca/index.php?id=68&tx_news_pi1%5Bnews%5D=145&tx_news_pi1%5Bcontroller%5D=News&tx_news_pi1%5Baction%5D=detail&cHash=9bfcc03e2cf456c333a433782863595e

The autopsy and detailed forensic report are a must read for Thailand's medical-judicial authorities and paint their professionalism in a negative light. In scientific circles, the report is akin to a very strong rebuke. Highlights are as follows;

- The autopsy carried out by the coroner's office at the judicial sciences and medical legal pathology laboratory in Montreal was hampered by the poor (improper)) conservation of the bodies before they were embalmed.

- The Thai coroner concluded that the cause of death was DEET intoxication. However, none of the evidence supports this conclusion. The Canadian laboratory determined that there was insufficient concentration of DEET to cause bodily harm. The supervising scientist Dr. Roussel went on to point out that the scientific literature doesn't even support such a claim. The DEET concentration found in the blood samples (prior and post Thai mortem) were indicative simply of someone using a topical insect repellent.

- The Quebec investigators had a strong suspicion that phosphine was implicated based upon their extensive blood and tissue examination. A consulting neuropathologist examined brain tissue and concluded the injury was consistent with phosphine poisoning.

- Since 2009, twenty western tourists have died in similar circumstances in countries in Southeast Asia , including two in the archipelago of Phi Phi Islands in 2009. All victims manifested the same signs and symptoms as the Bélanger sisters.The respective EU investigators all share a common conclusion that implicates phosphine.

Additional information not mentioned in the coroner's report is that an effort was made to consult with other investigators and notes were shared. There was an exchange of professional opinions and the results and work of other forensic experts provided guidance.

This report is mind boggling. In most countries it would bring about the forced resignation or termination of the original investigator(s). The incorrect conclusion of DEET despite all the evidence that showed otherwise, brings Thailand's forensic investigations into disrepute and requires all reports issued by the Thai investigators to be treated as unreliable. At the very least this requires a strong statement of concern from the Canadian Ministry of foreign affairs and if the Canadian Ambassador can tear himself away from social functions, a protest to the Thai foreign minister. The Norwegian forensic investigators warned that there would be similar incidents and they were ignored. The mother of the Norwegian victim has been fighting hard to make sure that her daughter's case is not forgotten. It's up to the foreign diplomatic community to say something before other young people die needlessly.

And if I seem excited, you bet I am. This is just awful. Bogus science combined with misleading information and sloppiness. Some might conclude that there was an intent to cover up these deaths. Others might say it was incompetence. All I know is that the conclusions drawn by the Thai investigators were wrong and they have refused to acknowledge that they were wrong.

The daughter of a very dear and close friend died in Chiang Mai under these circumstances. He spent a few weeks here hitting brick walls trying to find out the cause of his daughter's death.

He hates Thailand with a loathing now. Very sad.

[timmyp]

I heard a news interview on the US's NPR a couple of years ago with a toxicologist in Canada saying that these incidents were clearly intentional poisoning. I can't find the interview, though.

[Jonmarleesco]

'Not the first ...' Nor the second, given the suspicions that followed similar deaths in Chiang Mai.

[ChrisY1]

<<cut

Canadian medical examiners found traces of the gas from aluminum phosphide in the bodies of the Bélanger sisters. >paste

i was living long term chiang mai at the time. our residence as probably everywhere was fumigated once a month. we were always doubly advised when (usually same day every month), then we had to vacate room for x # hours and well ventilate on return.

it is indeed unfortunate. same same with the tragedy of the death of 2 young children in canada just last week, same gas, same deadly results.

RIP

i trust you did not die in vain

Of course they died in vain......some useless ar&฿≤ poisoned them.

Instead of replacing mattresses, these dumb f&&@ks tried to save mpney!

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[larsjohnsson]

Probably bug spray from Burma...

[mommysboy]

If my memory serves me right, the Thais concluded it was self inflicted via some strange additives to a cocktail bucket and the use of painkillers. Of course these farang reports are right, but not in Thailand. Likely it will happen again, and again, and so the merry go round continues. These poor girls died like poisoned rats. The level of incompetence, stupidity, negligence, or indeed crininality that caused their deaths is truly jaw dropping. IMHO this incident alone should have resulted in Thailand being blacklisted for a decade. Disgusting!

[bangon04]

It will be denied till the earth is proved flat.

remember what the RTP report said at the time?