Prostate and bladder stones

[Max in Udon]

Recently, during a routine ultra sound scan, I was diagnosed with a very large prostate gland, and bladder stones. I am 66 years old.

My main symptoms were having to visit the toilet several times during the night, and never being able to pee very well.

Consulting the internet, I found out that when the prostate gland enlarges, it presses on the bladder, and squeezes the urethra. A further complication is that urine that is left in the bladder, crystalizes and forms stones, in my case, many small stones, and one large stone that looked like a tree with many branches. I thought that I would require invasive surgery, but I was assured that the surgeon could break up the stones, and then flush them away.

A few days later, I was laying on the operation table, and the anesthetist administered a spinal block injection. Within one minute, I could not feel anything below the point of the injection. I was not allowed to see the instruments that were being used as the nurses erected a sheet across me, but I was asked if I wanted to watch the 42 inch colour monitor that the surgeon was working from. This I found fascinating, and watched the operation for 90 minutes.

I attended the hospital at 2.00pm on a Monday afternoon, and was operated on at 5.00pm the same day, and I left hospital on the Wednesday morning.

I was given medicine designed to shrink the prostate, if benign, and after 24 hours I could feel a definate improvement. I go to see the surgeon for a follow up next Sunday.

Total cost to date, 52,000 baht, which I consider to be quite reasonable.

One problem in Thai hospitals, because of the language barrier, is that there is little explanation given. But, after much worrying about what would happen to me, I can relate that nothing terrible happened, and the whole procedure was 100% pain free.

I would urge any TV member who has a toilet problem to get an ultra sound scan done, just to see if there is a problem.

If any member would like more details please feel free to PM me.

Geoff.

[maidee]

saw palmetto supplement & lycopene

[stenor]

Which Doctor/Hospital did you go to?

[Suradit69]

...in my case, many small stones, and one large stone that looked like a tree with many branches.

saw palmetto supplement & lycopene

Do you really think that saw palmetto will flush stones from the bladder?

[Max in Udon]

The urologist surgeon was called Dr Tawat Tumbowan, and the procedure took place at the Wattana Hospital in Udonthani.

Maybe very small stones will flush through easily, but a big stone with spikes and horns will certainly not flush through. It needs to be broken into very small pieces. The theatre nurses were very kind, and kept all the broken pieces of stone, and presented them to me in a plastic bag. Each time I look at them, I shudder.

[bubba]

Rather than open surgery, the more modern procedure that is commonly used for bladder and kidney stones is lithotripsy. This requires no incisions or surgery and uses a focused beam of ultrasound to break up the stones into sand like particles, which are then passed. That of course requires an expensive instrument and may not have been available in Udonthani.

As for your prostate issue, you should really see a good urologist about that, rather than a surgeon. Not to sound too depressing, but you will need to rule out prostate cancer as a remote possibility. Having had some experience with this and done quite a bit of research, I know of no medication that will shrink an enlarged prostate in 24 hours. The medications used to treat urinary difficulties for benign prostate hyperplasia (BPH) take weeks or even months to have a significant effect.

[Alfa]

I had an terrible op. the same kind , to take away the stones at Bangkok Phuket Hospital on Phuket Island which cost me over 120 thousand baht. They had an VERY old equipment. I get the stones back also in a plastic bag.. I stayed 3 days in the hospital, I had very bad pain, I was bleeding over a week, and I had troubles and problems about a year after this op. until I became normal again. I felt like there was no doctors but vet. Doctors did not even speak English. Never forget this rest of my life.

If I have a problem with something I always go abroad, anywhere is better and CHEAPER, you name it, Singapore, Malaysia etc.

That was my experience of the number one private hospital in Thailand.

Have a good day.

[sawadee1947]

saw palmetto supplement & lycopene

yes, that's the gold standard in addition with pumpkin seeds. Drink more than 3 litre a day = water! No alcs.

Dr.P

[atyclb]

Rather than open surgery, the more modern procedure that is commonly used for bladder and kidney stones is lithotripsy. This requires no incisions or surgery and uses a focused beam of ultrasound to break up the stones into sand like particles, which are then passed. That of course requires an expensive instrument and may not have been available in Udonthani.

As for your prostate issue, you should really see a good urologist about that, rather than a surgeon. Not to sound too depressing, but you will need to rule out prostate cancer as a remote possibility. Having had some experience with this and done quite a bit of research, I know of no medication that will shrink an enlarged prostate in 24 hours. The medications used to treat urinary difficulties for benign prostate hyperplasia (BPH) take weeks or even months to have a significant effect.

candidates for lithotripsy are limited by stone size(s) and location.

heeding your advice and avoiding surgeons would would entail not seeing a urologist

fyi a urologist is a surgeon

all kidding aside ejaculation relieves prostatic congestion and may very well be the speediest way to do so.

have another beer

Edited March 3, 2015 by atyclb

[Rhys]

kidney stone follow..

[thefactoryoutlet]

"One problem in Thai hospitals, because of the language barrier, is that there is little explanation given."

This is not a problem only in hospital and it is not only because of the language: THAI NEVER EXPLAIN ANYTHING !

They are never taught that you have to give reasons and explain when they want you to do something or when they do something for you, so boring !

[Lokie]

I seen my Urologist a few weeks back had Kidney stones a while ago, so was a follow up check, all well with that. Anyway asked about prostrate as I am 50 this year and have noticed I always now wake in mornings with the urge to pee (never did untill the last few months) and don't seem to pee as much but more often per day, asked whether it was just my age and the prostrate enlarging pressing on bladder, he said yep, getting older, is normal.

I mentioned when to start checking about prostrate cancer? and he said well, lets do a quick check now for you, at which he jumped up looking really pleased with himself, walked in the examination room (the Nurse hung back in consultation room - I think??) Right, pants down, get on the bed facing the wall and lay on your side, pull your knees up to your chest and take deep breaths... WoW! I never knew I could Yogol...! in my head I was thinking I bet the Nurse is pi$$ing her sides laughing as I was giving it the Sound of Music,in Dolby surround, good news was he said your prostrate feels fine, then he had me go give a blood sample to make sure, said he would have results that afternoon and anything shows then I would be back in a flash and have some anal camera action to do a biopsy on it, that was three weeks ago, my sphincter took a day or two to relax again lol...

Get checked out people!!!

[poweratradio]

Rather than open surgery, the more modern procedure that is commonly used for bladder and kidney stones is lithotripsy. This requires no incisions or surgery and uses a focused beam of ultrasound to break up the stones into sand like particles, which are then passed. That of course requires an expensive instrument and may not have been available in Udonthani.

As for your prostate issue, you should really see a good urologist about that, rather than a surgeon. Not to sound too depressing, but you will need to rule out prostate cancer as a remote possibility. Having had some experience with this and done quite a bit of research, I know of no medication that will shrink an enlarged prostate in 24 hours. The medications used to treat urinary difficulties for benign prostate hyperplasia (BPH) take weeks or even months to have a significant effect.

[poweratradio]

FlowMax will shrink a prostrate and is very often prescribed after an ultrasound and finger check confirms enlargement and a PSA blood test discounts cancer.

[Dannyboy666]

saw palmetto supplement & lycopene

yes, that's the gold standard in addition with pumpkin seeds. Drink more than 3 litre a day = water! No alcs.

Dr.P

I try to tell people Pumpkin Seeds but no one listens...

[F4UCorsair]

Great and informative post Max. Thanks for sharing your experience and I genuinely mean that.

Edited March 3, 2015 by F4UCorsair

[bubba]

FlowMax will shrink a prostrate and is very often prescribed after an ultrasound and finger check confirms enlargement and a PSA blood test discounts cancer.

FlowMax is what is called an alpha blocker. It doesn't shrink a prostate, but it relaxes the muscles associated with urination, making it easier to do that if you have BPH.

[mokwit]

Be wary of Finasteride and the others as per http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finasteride#Adverse_effects - some have had their ability to function sexually completely and permanently destroyed - there is a web board that discusses this. Seems many took it for Male Pattern Baldness. Also some research indicates it is oestrodiol (oestrogen derivative) that causes the enlargement - drug companies only have to show the research that supports their drug.

[Privateer]

Advice from doctors in the UK (I have seen several over the years) Is to consider living with enlarged prostate if you can. Drug treatment (eg finasteride) may cause impotency (erectile disfunction and little or no sperm production). Alternatively a layer can be surgically removed from the inside of the prostate, using an instrument inserted through the urethra. This also risks causing impotency ( in this case no longer producing semen). Even alpha blockers, to relax muscles and make peeing easier, may reduce sperm production as a side effect.

The cause is thought to be reduced testosterone balance with age (= increased oestrogen balance and swelling of prostate).

I find Wellman Prostace vitamin tabs help control it. Also saw palmetto. Will try combining Saw palmetto with lycopene and pumpkin seeds as mentioned above!

[mommysboy]

I plucked up the courage to have the check as I just can't stop peeing. Everything normal thankfully. Yes, agree with other people try to live with it if you can. Perhaps some medication?

[mommysboy]

I seen my Urologist a few weeks back had Kidney stones a while ago, so was a follow up check, all well with that. Anyway asked about prostrate as I am 50 this year and have noticed I always now wake in mornings with the urge to pee (never did untill the last few months) and don't seem to pee as much but more often per day, asked whether it was just my age and the prostrate enlarging pressing on bladder, he said yep, getting older, is normal.

I mentioned when to start checking about prostrate cancer? and he said well, lets do a quick check now for you, at which he jumped up looking really pleased with himself, walked in the examination room (the Nurse hung back in consultation room - I think??) Right, pants down, get on the bed facing the wall and lay on your side, pull your knees up to your chest and take deep breaths... WoW! I never knew I could Yogol...! in my head I was thinking I bet the Nurse is pi$$ing her sides laughing as I was giving it the Sound of Music,in Dolby surround, good news was he said your prostrate feels fine, then he had me go give a blood sample to make sure, said he would have results that afternoon and anything shows then I would be back in a flash and have some anal camera action to do a biopsy on it, that was three weeks ago, my sphincter took a day or two to relax again lol...

Get checked out people!!!

I certainly agree, get checked out!

I also understand why we are all so reluctant, I fear cancer, and blood tests and scans make me anxious. My bp jumped to 155/85 at the thought.

But happily, I can honestly say the finger wave was quick and painless.

And I was aware that even if there was a problem then prostate cancer is very treatable.

[h90]

Seeing the operation is hard I think I wouldn't want to do that....

[Lokie]

Yes get the checks, the digital examination was not so bad, just a bit uncorfartable a few seconds and done

I was more anxious waiting for blood test results, as mommsyboy said, white coat syndrome, but is a no brainer. I spoke with all my mates, only two have been checked? I have urged them all to get checked out, hell if we can all Yogol we can start a choir! Men can be pretty dum sometimes

[bubba]

Lokie - did they do your blood draw after your exam? Sort of sounds that way from your description. The exam can actually elevate PSA and most docs would recommend drawing the blood sample before the exam.

[mommysboy]

With me (mb) they drew blood after the physical examination.

[bubba]

MB- my uro always does the blood draw before, as he says the exam prodding can release PSA and raise the result. He also said I should not do any bicycle riding and also practice celibacy for 48 hours before the blood draw. Looking around on the internet, that seems to be the general consensus amongst urologists. If you come out a bit high, you might want to consider those and do a repeat.

[mommysboy]

MB- my uro always does the blood draw before, as he says the exam prodding can release PSA and raise the result. He also said I should not do any bicycle riding and also practice celibacy for 48 hours before the blood draw. Looking around on the internet, that seems to be the general consensus amongst urologists. If you come out a bit high, you might want to consider those and do a repeat.

Thanks for the heads up and glad you are on the case, but as it turned my doctor was pretty sure from the examination that the prostate was not enlarged at all, and was more interested in the bladder and kidneys, I assume the PSA test was just part of the whole deal.

I had ultrasound too, that seemed to scan my main organs. Everthing was A ok thankfully.

The total PSA was 1.26, creatinine was 1.0, BUN 9. If that means anything to anybody!

I was told everything was normal and the irritation was likely caused by drinking too much tea and coffee. My intake can be 10-20 cups of Lipton, 2 coffees.

[bubba]

The PSA reference range depends on your age, but assuming you are > 40 yo, your PSA looks great. Creatinine and BUN are also in the normal range.

I am not a doctor and never played one on TV, but I will just hazard a guess that perhaps 10 - 20 cups of tea during the day may have something to do with your many trips to the loo.

[TheFishman1]

2015-03-04

FlowMax will shrink a prostrate and is very often prescribed after an ultrasound and finger check confirms enlargement and a PSA blood test discounts cancer. 100 % Wrong Avodart shrinks prostrate and can take long time