Belgian man arrested for working as tour guide

[longstebe]

Ah, the days of banter in the workplace between the belgies and the cloggies. All good fun.

Limburg love.

[cmsally]

If you read the OP it says he was working as an interpreter for the guide. In that case they would still have a Thai guide but the Belgian guy would be dealing with the group because of language constraints.

It is not exactly taking someone's job away.

A lot of tour groups do this mostly because of the language barriers. I was under the impression this was legal if they employed a Thai guide to go with them.

[robblok]

People are discussing and judging based on what they read in the article. The only thing i can say is that unfortunately the truth is far away from what has been written...

That would not be the first time and is common all over the world the thing a police friend of mine back in Holland told me about articles written on incidents where he was involved was shocking.. so often it was totally wrong.

It will be worse here for sure.

[robblok]

If you read the OP it says he was working as an interpreter for the guide. In that case they would still have a Thai guide but the Belgian guy would be dealing with the group because of language constraints.

It is not exactly taking someone's job away.

A lot of tour groups do this mostly because of the language barriers. I was under the impression this was legal if they employed a Thai guide to go with them.

Not legal.. gf is a Thai guide and they often do it like this but its not legal and the police needs to get paid. But its how it is many of the languages are just not spoken by Thai guides. (if they were to be real good in that language they could use it to make much more money elsewhere the guide get paid not enough to attract the ones that are real good in languages)

[luk AJ]

If you read the OP it says he was working as an interpreter for the guide. In that case they would still have a Thai guide but the Belgian guy would be dealing with the group because of language constraints.

It is not exactly taking someone's job away.

A lot of tour groups do this mostly because of the language barriers. I was under the impression this was legal if they employed a Thai guide to go with them.

Not legal.. gf is a Thai guide and they often do it like this but its not legal and the police needs to get paid. But its how it is many of the languages are just not spoken by Thai guides. (if they were to be real good in that language they could use it to make much more money elsewhere the guide get paid not enough to attract the ones that are real good in languages)

do you know if a translator is not legal? Can you share this source please.

[robblok]

If you read the OP it says he was working as an interpreter for the guide. In that case they would still have a Thai guide but the Belgian guy would be dealing with the group because of language constraints.

It is not exactly taking someone's job away.

A lot of tour groups do this mostly because of the language barriers. I was under the impression this was legal if they employed a Thai guide to go with them.

Not legal.. gf is a Thai guide and they often do it like this but its not legal and the police needs to get paid. But its how it is many of the languages are just not spoken by Thai guides. (if they were to be real good in that language they could use it to make much more money elsewhere the guide get paid not enough to attract the ones that are real good in languages)

do you know if a translator is not legal? Can you share this source please.

Not without a work-permit it is not, and because its hard to get work permits for work out of office and these short duration they usually don't have one.

[NativeSon360]

Does Thailand benefit if a lot of foreigners come here and become tourist guides ? Does every nation that recieves lots of foreign workers benefit ?

In Thailand, if lots of Thais become un-employed because lots of foreigners enter Thailand and take those jobs, does Thailand benefit ?? It appears to be that Thailand is very cautious when it comes to giving out work permits to foreigners.

The Thais, they're not that daft or silly. They're not going to let a load of foreigners enter their country and take-over. There was a bit of talk on Thai Visa about how the Thais would be f___ once ASEAN 2015 comes in. Yes, unlimited numbers of people entering into Thailand and working will mean that the Thais will be f___. But the Thais won't let it happen, they will simply not give out a stack of work permits to the foreigners.

Maybe you should ask the 10's of thousands of Burmese. Lao and Khmer illegal workers that the Thais are only to happy to employ and exploit.

Did you follow what happened when they thought a crackdown was coming?

They left in droves and construction etc came to a halt across the country, so what did the thais do?

Changed the rules

Dont think this is about the LAW or Thais loosing jobs cause its not

Hey tonbridgebrit! Here's a news flash for you. Granted, your points are valid. However, this is SE ASIA, not Europe. Despite all the historic animousities and wars between SEA people, Thais have a stronger allegiance toward other SEA people, than they will ever have with you, bloke.

As citizens of ASEAN member nations, those same exploited migrant workers from Cambodia, Indonesia, Laos, Malaysia, Myanmar, The Philippines, Vietnam, etc. will not be required to first obtain a work permit in Thailand, prior to pursuing gainful employment.

The Aussie gov't is fanatically "politic-king, to be recognized as an ASEAN member nation. Would care to venture a guess, as to what their (Aussie) reasoning happens to be?

Back to the topic. Despite the ethical right or wrong doings of the Thai law enforcement officials,, they can arbitrarily enforce, or not enforce their own labor laws & immigration policies, to their own hearts content. Just in case you have (block-headedly) refused to notice, the LOS is factually Thai Turf, not British. Those blokes can do whatever they bloody well please. The Belgian bloke was illegally working, without a work permit. His crime was getting caught in the act. Period.

Edited March 8, 2015 by NativeSon360

[NativeSon360]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

The Dutch are very smart people. Most speak some English and some speak it very well. It is possible the Belgian was able to communicate to the Dutch tourists in their own language better than the Thai guides can speak English. However, he broke the law and the law won.

Wrong place, wrong time. Remember where you are!

English is the second language for the Dutch , they speak excellent English , you are correct, he broke the law.

Off-topic. Both the Dutch & Belgians possess a greater command of the English language (in general) ...than do most of the British themselves (in general) .

[NativeSon360]

The Dutch are very smart people. Most speak some English and some speak it very well. It is possible the Belgian was able to communicate to the Dutch tourists in their own language better than the Thai guides can speak English. However, he broke the law and the law won.

Wrong place, wrong time. Remember where you are!

he can most likely speak Flemish, which is very close to formal Dutch at lot of Belgian's do speak it

Most intelligent Belgians (rare) do speak Dutch. (running joke between Belgians and Dutch we complain about their intelligence and they complain we resemble Scots in how cheap we are)

Perhaps you meant well, but if I were Belgian, I'd be insulted by your remark. "Most intelligent Belgians (rare), etc."

[h90]

There tens of thousands of fluent dutch and french speaking Thais and he is stealing their job.

[jdinasia]

This story is pretty much a non starter. If you are a tourist in my country and are caught working illegally you will be taken to court and then deported.

[transam]

Think the guy and all of us KNOW the risks of doing any work without a permit.......The guy took the chance and got caught.

The company that employed the guy KNOW he should have a permit if he could get one.

[NativeSon360]

Does Thailand benefit if a lot of foreigners come here and become tourist guides ? Does every nation that recieves lots of foreign workers benefit ?

In Thailand, if lots of Thais become un-employed because lots of foreigners enter Thailand and take those jobs, does Thailand benefit ?? It appears to be that Thailand is very cautious when it comes to giving out work permits to foreigners.

The Thais, they're not that daft or silly. They're not going to let a load of foreigners enter their country and take-over. There was a bit of talk on Thai Visa about how the Thais would be f___ once ASEAN 2015 comes in. Yes, unlimited numbers of people entering into Thailand and working will mean that the Thais will be f___. But the Thais won't let it happen, they will simply not give out a stack of work permits to the foreigners.

From NativeSon: The other SEA migrant workers will not be classified as foreigners.

Maybe you should ask the 10's of thousands of Burmese. Lao and Khmer illegal workers that the Thais are only to happy to employ and exploit.

Did you follow what happened when they thought a crackdown was coming?

They left in droves and construction etc came to a halt across the country, so what did the thais do?

Changed the rules

Dont think this is about the LAW or Thais loosing jobs cause its not

Hey tonbridgebrit! Here's a news flash for you. Granted, your points are valid. However, this is SE ASIA, not Europe. Despite all the historic animousities and wars between SEA people, Thais have a stronger allegiance toward other SEA people, than they will ever have with you, bloke.

As citizens of ASEAN member nations, those same exploited migrant workers from Cambodia, Indonesia, Laos, Malaysia, Myanmar, The Philippines, Vietnam, etc. will not be required to first obtain a work permit in Thailand, prior to pursuing gainful employment.

The Aussie gov't is fanatically "politic-king, to be recognized as an ASEAN member nation. Would care to venture a guess, as to what their (Aussie) reasoning happens to be?

Back to the topic. Despite the ethical right or wrong doings of the Thai law enforcement officials,, they can arbitrarily enforce, or not enforce their own labor laws & immigration policies, to their own hearts content. Just in case you have (block-headedly) refused to notice, the LOS is factually Thai Turf, not British. Those blokes can do whatever they bloody well please. The Belgian bloke was illegally working, without a work permit. His crime was getting caught in the act. Period.

[NativeSon360]

This story is pretty much a non starter. If you are a tourist in my country and are caught working illegally you will be taken to court and then deported.

Exactamento!

[Bullie]

But, then again, you're not Belgian, mr. NativeSon 30, so how could you possibly have an opinion on this? It's meant as a joke and fits beatifully in long love and friendly banter that goes on between the people of our great nations.

But maybe it's just me, a Belgian loving Dutchman (like the majority of the Dutch)

[NativeSon360]

"He said he was paying Bt1,000 to B1,300 a day." he paid them to lead them ???

Now you know the reason why the arrested Belgian was providing a service, the Thai tour guides cannot provide. Here we have na "educated" OP who cannot write , discernible English, as a News Editor. The majority of Belgian/Dutch people have a working knowledge of the English language. The majority of Thais do not. There really is no contest, and thais are a bunch of crybabies.

Now, back to the main topic. The arrested Belgian is not innocent. It is illegal to work, while on a tourist visa, in every country on the planet. He committed the crime of getting caught. If he wants to earn a living legally, as a Tour Guide, then he needs to return to the EuroZone. Period.

..and join a rightwing party

So, what else?

[NativeSon360]

But, then again, you're not Belgian, mr. NativeSon 30, so how could you possibly have an opinion on this? It's meant as a joke and fits beatifully in long love and friendly banter that goes on between the people of our great nations.

But maybe it's just me, a Belgian loving Dutchman (like the majority of the Dutch)

And your Bullie "argumentative" point is.....? Huh? duh!

[FangFerang]

Simultaneously, I believe Tour Guide is a forbidden foreigner vocation, and that the Thais cannot be tour guides for foreigners since few speak English.

[NativeSon360]

The Dutch are very smart people. Most speak some English and some speak it very well. It is possible the Belgian was able to communicate to the Dutch tourists in their own language better than the Thai guides can speak English. However, he broke the law and the law won.

Wrong place, wrong time. Remember where you are!

Actually while it is true.. that we are highly intelligent.. one of the highest IQ's in Europe not everyone is and / or speaks good English. My mom is one of those whose English is not that great. So I can understand them to have their own guides.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-381057/European-IQ-map-proves-Brits-brainy.html (fun Dutch 107 Brits 100 and they call themselves brainy in the article.. almost identical to how thais often twist the the facts) (I have seen other scores But the Dutch seem always to get good scores)

It actually goes for a lot of people that they like to be addressed in their own language and provisions should be made. My gf is a tourguide and she told me how her company often bribed the police to let a Korean join the trip she would communicate with him and he would tell the clients. They police was ok with this as long as a Thai guide was there (and payments were made of course).

Thai guides don't have a problem with this only when the guide is effectively cut out. Personally I feel they should learn the language of those they serve..but a much higher salary should be available then.

Arrogance has a tendency to reap it's own counter-productive rewards. Indigeneous Thais are even more arrogant than the ethnic (bank-owning) Chinese.

Edited March 8, 2015 by NativeSon360

[jdinasia]

Simultaneously, I believe Tour Guide is a forbidden foreigner vocation, and that the Thais cannot be tour guides for foreigners since few speak English.

Many speak English quite well, as well as many other languages. I have friends who work as guides for English, Japanese, and German speaking groups.

They all get paid better than the guy that got busted.

[Briggsy]

I would wager he was not paying any income tax.

[harada]

You only need one who understands English the rest will follow, bye bye Bram come back in five years.

[Tomtomtom69]

Does Thailand benefit if a lot of foreigners come here and become tourist guides ? Does every nation that recieves lots of foreign workers benefit ?

In Thailand, if lots of Thais become un-employed because lots of foreigners enter Thailand and take those jobs, does Thailand benefit ?? It appears to be that Thailand is very cautious when it comes to giving out work permits to foreigners.

The Thais, they're not that daft or silly. They're not going to let a load of foreigners enter their country and take-over. There was a bit of talk on Thai Visa about how the Thais would be f___ once ASEAN 2015 comes in. Yes, unlimited numbers of people entering into Thailand and working will mean that the Thais will be f___. But the Thais won't let it happen, they will simply not give out a stack of work permits to the foreigners.

Maybe you should ask the 10's of thousands of Burmese. Lao and Khmer illegal workers that the Thais are only to happy to employ and exploit.

Did you follow what happened when they thought a crackdown was coming?

They left in droves and construction etc came to a halt across the country, so what did the thais do?

Changed the rules

Dont think this is about the LAW or Thais loosing jobs cause its not

Hey tonbridgebrit! Here's a news flash for you. Granted, your points are valid. However, this is SE ASIA, not Europe. Despite all the historic animousities and wars between SEA people, Thais have a stronger allegiance toward other SEA people, than they will ever have with you, bloke.

As citizens of ASEAN member nations, those same exploited migrant workers from Cambodia, Indonesia, Laos, Malaysia, Myanmar, The Philippines, Vietnam, etc. will not be required to first obtain a work permit in Thailand, prior to pursuing gainful employment.

The Aussie gov't is fanatically "politic-king, to be recognized as an ASEAN member nation. Would care to venture a guess, as to what their (Aussie) reasoning happens to be?

Back to the topic. Despite the ethical right or wrong doings of the Thai law enforcement officials,, they can arbitrarily enforce, or not enforce their own labor laws & immigration policies, to their own hearts content. Just in case you have (block-headedly) refused to notice, the LOS is factually Thai Turf, not British. Those blokes can do whatever they bloody well please. The Belgian bloke was illegally working, without a work permit. His crime was getting caught in the act. Period.

I don't think so. Many Thais hate the Burmese and Cambodians, and will never even think about going there for a holiday. On the other hand, going to Korea, Japan, Europe, Australia, the USA or Canada, whether for a holiday or work would be a dream.

You don't know what you're talking about. Thais like other Thais, but they have absolutely no solidarity with people of neighboring countries.

[chrisinth]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

In Amsterdam, my home town we often see busloads of tourists. ALL asian tourists (yes, including Thais) bring their own tourguide, usually waving a little flag to keep the herd together. Even though there are Thai Dutchman that could easily do the job. So, if the Thai can "steal" jobs from us Farang, should not we be allowed to do the same especially because it makes sense to be adressed by someone in your own langage, rather than a Thai tourguide without proper english qualifications who has unintelligible english at the best of times.

(Rant out)

As they say: you can not have the cake (tourists) and eat it (Thailand exclusively for the Thai). Time to wake up, here

You bring up a quite valid point. Is it illegal to have a nominated translator present among the tour group, to assist the tour guide?

However, in the case in point, the guy arrested allegedly stated that he was being paid for his services (between 1,000 and 1,300 baht a day) and in the eyes of the police this would target him for breaking the law. One could say a really stupid statement to make especially on a tourist visa.

I have no horses or dogs in this race, there are valid (IMHO) facts on both sides of the guide argument. But, I would advise anyone doing the job to keep a low profile while working in plain view of the authorities, and, if the laws are changed, get the correct paperwork done before starting.

[jdinasia]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

In Amsterdam, my home town we often see busloads of tourists. ALL asian tourists (yes, including Thais) bring their own tourguide, usually waving a little flag to keep the herd together. Even though there are Thai Dutchman that could easily do the job. So, if the Thai can "steal" jobs from us Farang, should not we be allowed to do the same especially because it makes sense to be adressed by someone in your own langage, rather than a Thai tourguide without proper english qualifications who has unintelligible english at the best of times.

(Rant out)

As they say: you can not have the cake (tourists) and eat it (Thailand exclusively for the Thai). Time to wake up, here

You bring up a quite valid point. Is it illegal to have a nominated translator present among the tour group, to assist the tour guide?

However, in the case in point, the guy arrested allegedly stated that he was being paid for his services (between 1,000 and 1,300 baht a day) and in the eyes of the police this would target him for breaking the law. One could say a really stupid statement to make especially on a tourist visa.

I have no horses or dogs in this race, there are valid (IMHO) facts on both sides of the guide argument. But, I would advise anyone doing the job to keep a low profile while working in plain view of the authorities, and, if the laws are changed, get the correct paperwork done before starting.

The simplest point in this discussion is that foreign tour guides are taking money out of the pockets of the Thai guides. The Thai guides rightfully complained and the low hanging fruit got picked.

[rubl]

Does Thailand benefit if a lot of foreigners come here and become tourist guides ? Does every nation that recieves lots of foreign workers benefit ?

In Thailand, if lots of Thais become un-employed because lots of foreigners enter Thailand and take those jobs, does Thailand benefit ?? It appears to be that Thailand is very cautious when it comes to giving out work permits to foreigners.

The Thais, they're not that daft or silly. They're not going to let a load of foreigners enter their country and take-over. There was a bit of talk on Thai Visa about how the Thais would be f___ once ASEAN 2015 comes in. Yes, unlimited numbers of people entering into Thailand and working will mean that the Thais will be f___. But the Thais won't let it happen, they will simply not give out a stack of work permits to the foreigners.

You forgot to add

... and while temporarily restricting work permits for certain sectors the Thai Governments have been well at it for the last twenty years to make sure that Thai get a proper education so foreigners are no longer needed (if ever they were) for these jobs.

[phrodan]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

In Amsterdam, my home town we often see busloads of tourists. ALL asian tourists (yes, including Thais) bring their own tourguide, usually waving a little flag to keep the herd together. Even though there are Thai Dutchman that could easily do the job. So, if the Thai can "steal" jobs from us Farang, should not we be allowed to do the same especially because it makes sense to be adressed by someone in your own langage, rather than a Thai tourguide without proper english qualifications who has unintelligible english at the best of times.

(Rant out)

As they say: you can not have the cake (tourists) and eat it (Thailand exclusively for the Thai). Time to wake up, here

You bring up a quite valid point. Is it illegal to have a nominated translator present among the tour group, to assist the tour guide?

However, in the case in point, the guy arrested allegedly stated that he was being paid for his services (between 1,000 and 1,300 baht a day) and in the eyes of the police this would target him for breaking the law. One could say a really stupid statement to make especially on a tourist visa.

I have no horses or dogs in this race, there are valid (IMHO) facts on both sides of the guide argument. But, I would advise anyone doing the job to keep a low profile while working in plain view of the authorities, and, if the laws are changed, get the correct paperwork done before starting.

Yes - you would need to be extraordinarily stupid to tell a Thai policeman you're getting paid 1,000 baht per day + acting as a tour guide.

< Flame removed >

Edited March 8, 2015 by metisdead
Removed inflammatory comment.

[phrodan]

Does Thailand benefit if a lot of foreigners come here and become tourist guides ? Does every nation that recieves lots of foreign workers benefit ?

In Thailand, if lots of Thais become un-employed because lots of foreigners enter Thailand and take those jobs, does Thailand benefit ?? It appears to be that Thailand is very cautious when it comes to giving out work permits to foreigners.

The Thais, they're not that daft or silly. They're not going to let a load of foreigners enter their country and take-over. There was a bit of talk on Thai Visa about how the Thais would be f___ once ASEAN 2015 comes in. Yes, unlimited numbers of people entering into Thailand and working will mean that the Thais will be f___. But the Thais won't let it happen, they will simply not give out a stack of work permits to the foreigners.

Maybe you should ask the 10's of thousands of Burmese. Lao and Khmer illegal workers that the Thais are only to happy to employ and exploit.

Did you follow what happened when they thought a crackdown was coming?

They left in droves and construction etc came to a halt across the country, so what did the thais do?

Changed the rules

Dont think this is about the LAW or Thais loosing jobs cause its not

Hey tonbridgebrit! Here's a news flash for you. Granted, your points are valid. However, this is SE ASIA, not Europe. Despite all the historic animousities and wars between SEA people, Thais have a stronger allegiance toward other SEA people, than they will ever have with you, bloke.

As citizens of ASEAN member nations, those same exploited migrant workers from Cambodia, Indonesia, Laos, Malaysia, Myanmar, The Philippines, Vietnam, etc. will not be required to first obtain a work permit in Thailand, prior to pursuing gainful employment.

The Aussie gov't is fanatically "politic-king, to be recognized as an ASEAN member nation. Would care to venture a guess, as to what their (Aussie) reasoning happens to be?

Back to the topic. Despite the ethical right or wrong doings of the Thai law enforcement officials,, they can arbitrarily enforce, or not enforce their own labor laws & immigration policies, to their own hearts content. Just in case you have (block-headedly) refused to notice, the LOS is factually Thai Turf, not British. Those blokes can do whatever they bloody well please. The Belgian bloke was illegally working, without a work permit. His crime was getting caught in the act. Period.

I don't think so. Many Thais hate the Burmese and Cambodians, and will never even think about going there for a holiday. On the other hand, going to Korea, Japan, Europe, Australia, the USA or Canada, whether for a holiday or work would be a dream.

You don't know what you're talking about. Thais like other Thais, but they have absolutely no solidarity with people of neighboring countries.

Yes, again.

The only employment that Thais want to give to the Burmese, Cambodian's and Laotians is the low-life work that they don't want to do. Because that's how they see them - lowlife's.

And people wonder when yet another raid on a brothel turns up 99% of the girls being from said countries. That's because that's their place in this society - to be banged and discarded. And the one percent? she'll be mountain tribe. Or the Thai nominee that collects the money.

Anyone believing that Thais have solidarity with especially the Burmese and Cambodians is delooooooooooooooooooded. They are one step above slave labour in this country, and its a very small step.

[Thai at Heart]

If he is dragging Dutch tourists all the way to the golden triangle on a tour, he is a better asset than 99% of the people in TAT.

[luk AJ]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

In Amsterdam, my home town we often see busloads of tourists. ALL asian tourists (yes, including Thais) bring their own tourguide, usually waving a little flag to keep the herd together. Even though there are Thai Dutchman that could easily do the job. So, if the Thai can "steal" jobs from us Farang, should not we be allowed to do the same especially because it makes sense to be adressed by someone in your own langage, rather than a Thai tourguide without proper english qualifications who has unintelligible english at the best of times.

(Rant out)

As they say: you can not have the cake (tourists) and eat it (Thailand exclusively for the Thai). Time to wake up, here

You bring up a quite valid point. Is it illegal to have a nominated translator present among the tour group, to assist the tour guide?

However, in the case in point, the guy arrested allegedly stated that he was being paid for his services (between 1,000 and 1,300 baht a day) and in the eyes of the police this would target him for breaking the law. One could say a really stupid statement to make especially on a tourist visa.

I have no horses or dogs in this race, there are valid (IMHO) facts on both sides of the guide argument. But, I would advise anyone doing the job to keep a low profile while working in plain view of the authorities, and, if the laws are changed, get the correct paperwork done before starting.

see my remark on 24. This is called " running in circles"