Thai govt may file civil suit in Admin Court to recoup rice scheme losses

[webfact]

Govt may file civil suit in Admin Court to recoup rice scheme losses
THE NATION

BANGKOK: -- THE GOVERNMENT is considering filing a lawsuit with the Administrative Court over losses and alleged corruption in the rice-pledging scheme and government-to-government rice deals, Deputy PM Wissanu Krea-ngam said yesterday.

The Finance Ministry will be the plaintiff in the civil case against former PM Yingluck Shinawatra over her alleged negligence in failing to stop graft and losses in the rice-pledging scheme, which cost the state up to Bt600 billion.

The Commerce Ministry will be the plaintiff in the case against former Commerce Minister Boonsong Teriya-pirom over alleged corruption in the government-to-government rice deals.

Wissanu said civil cases were normally filed in the Civil Court, but the government was considering whether the cases should be filed as one civil suit with the Administrative Court, as they were related and a guilty verdict in one case would affect the other. He said under such circumstances the two cases may be filed at the Administrative Court, even though defendants in the cases include politicians, permanent state officials and private entities, plus officials of Bank for Agriculture and Agricultural Cooperatives.

"Normally, cases filed at the Administrative Court are against state officials. Suits against other people would be filed in a different court," he said. "But if cases are filed at different courts, the courts would have to wait for rulings of other courts as the cases are related. So we may file these cases as one suit."

If the suits were filed at the Civil Court they would also have a statue of limitations of one year, but if filed at the Administrative Court they would have a statue of limitations of two years.

Wissanu said although two ministries were plaintiffs, the suit would be filed in the name of the government and only one pubic prosecutor would oversee the indictment. He said a panel would be set up this week to determine the losses incurred from rotting rice in government stocks. The panel in charge of seeking compensation from civil cases would decide how much can be sought for damaged rice.

Wissanu said if the statue of limitations ran out, officials in charge of the indictment will be held responsible. The statute of limitations for both cases expires in February 2017.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Govt-may-file-civil-suit-in-Admin-Court-to-recoup--30255676.html


-- The Nation 2015-03-10

[laubau]

Why not file suite to recoup the losses that occurred while the yellow shirts occupied the airport? Hmmmmm...

[samjaidee]

Why not file suite to recoup the losses that occurred while the yellow shirts occupied the airport? Hmmmmm...

How would you quantify those losses?

[Robby nz]

Why not file suite to recoup the losses that occurred while the yellow shirts occupied the airport? Hmmmmm...

Because this is about corruption and negligence within the rice pledging scheme, not about political protest.

[Baerboxer]

Simple. If she can show where the money actually went, and that the loss was caused by adverse economic and financial issues beyond her control then she shouldn't have to pay. Of course she'll need to show how she actively managed those issues to the best of her and her teams abilities to mitigate against such issues and manage the risks as best she could,

If on the other hand, if it's apparent she did bugger all, ignored all warnings home and abroad, lied, and permitted gross mismanagement and theft and actually has no idea (or not prepared to say) where the money went then she should be held responsible for such negligence.

Edited March 10, 2015 by Baerboxer

[Thai at Heart]

if the rice is rotting, then sue the warehouse owners.

If there was corruption in the GtoG stuff, isn't there already someone convicted of this. Surely that is the first port of call.

[Thai at Heart]

Simple. If she can show where the money actually went, and that the loss was caused by adverse economic and financial issues beyond her control then she shouldn't have to pay. Of course she'll need to show how she actively managed those issues to the best of her and her teams abilities to mitigate against such issues and manage the risks as best she could,

If on the other hand, if it's apparent she did bugger all, ignored all warnings home and abroad, lied, and permitted gross mismanagement and theft and actually has no idea (or not prepared to say) where the money went then she should be held responsible for such negligence.

The specific GtoG deals were apparently bent, but didn't somene go to jail already? The accusation is that rice wasn't exported but was somehow shifted to the domestic market. Why this should have created such a massive loss, I can't undertand.

The paper loss on the whole system is in line with the prices paid against the current prices.

Pay the farmer, process the rice, store it, packaage it. Its all in line, and the current bunch claim there isn't a huge amount physically missing.

[FangFerang]

Why not file suite to recoup the losses that occurred while the yellow shirts occupied the airport? Hmmmmm...

Because this is about corruption and negligence within the rice pledging scheme, not about political protest.

Corruption and negligence make it so the yellow shirts will not be prosecuted for the airport scheme.

[NeilSA1]

if the rice is rotting, then sue the warehouse owners.

If there was corruption in the GtoG stuff, isn't there already someone convicted of this. Surely that is the first port of call.

"Sue the warehouse owners" ? Can they perform miracles ?

For how many years can rice be kept in a warehouse without eventually deteriorating?

[NeilSA1]

Why not file suite to recoup the losses that occurred while the yellow shirts occupied the airport? Hmmmmm...

Because this is about corruption and negligence within the rice pledging scheme, not about political protest.

Corruption and negligence make it so the yellow shirts will not be prosecuted for the airport scheme.

I wonder why the previous government did not take action in this regard. Surely it should have been their responsibility to take relevant legal action if they wanted to and it was practical?

[RockyBeerbelly]

Why not file suite to recoup the losses that occurred while the yellow shirts occupied the airport? Hmmmmm...

....And sue the red shirts for burning down Bangkok

[Srikcir]

Just more political assination by the Junta.

The Junta has given itself judicial power to have people tried for whatever crimes it can create and find them guilty. If the former judicial system isn't set up to address the crimes that the Junta wants to pursue, it will find solutions within its absolute power of sovereignty over Thais. The Junta shows there is no Thainess about oligarchy rule, the objectives are the same found elsewehere throughout history - eliminate political opposition and handicap the sovereignty of the people.

[seajae]

wow, another newbie thaksin/red/ptp lover with their "its all the junta's fault", do you realize how pathetic that sounds. Ignore the facts just use the red book of excuses, really have to wonder at the mental capacity of you lot when you come out with crap like this

[Robby nz]

Simple. If she can show where the money actually went, and that the loss was caused by adverse economic and financial issues beyond her control then she shouldn't have to pay. Of course she'll need to show how she actively managed those issues to the best of her and her teams abilities to mitigate against such issues and manage the risks as best she could,

If on the other hand, if it's apparent she did bugger all, ignored all warnings home and abroad, lied, and permitted gross mismanagement and theft and actually has no idea (or not prepared to say) where the money went then she should be held responsible for such negligence.

The specific GtoG deals were apparently bent, but didn't somene go to jail already? The accusation is that rice wasn't exported but was somehow shifted to the domestic market. Why this should have created such a massive loss, I can't undertand.

The paper loss on the whole system is in line with the prices paid against the current prices.

Pay the farmer, process the rice, store it, packaage it. Its all in line, and the current bunch claim there isn't a huge amount physically missing.

Not again T a H, you do know better, I had to point out to you Thaksins aid had been convicted in the Iran deal.

You also know that the previous minister of commerce and his mates have been charged but not yet brought to court for another G2G deal.

I am sure you also know there are other G2G deals that have as yet been not been addressed.

The losses are not in line with anything, there has been massive corruption right through the whole scheme, you know this.

There was big amounts of rice found to be missing from the inspections and that is only from the rice that was in storage at the time of the inspection, you know this.

It has been estimated that there is around 2 million tons of rice unaccounted for over the life of the scheme, just how much will probably never be known for rice was moved around with no proper documentation with some apparently sold then resold into the scheme, you know this also.

[scorecard]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Why not file suite to recoup the losses that occurred while the yellow shirts occupied the airport? Hmmmmm...

So massive dereliction of duty and massive corruption are the same as protesting?

[scorecard]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Just more political assination by the Junta.

The Junta has given itself judicial power to have people tried for whatever crimes it can create and find them guilty. If the former judicial system isn't set up to address the crimes that the Junta wants to pursue, it will find solutions within its absolute power of sovereignty over Thais. The Junta shows there is no Thainess about oligarchy rule, the objectives are the same found elsewehere throughout history - eliminate political opposition and handicap the sovereignty of the people.

What a load of rubbish. Why don't you post something with a constructive discussion?

[brucec64]

wow, another newbie thaksin/red/ptp lover with their "its all the junta's fault", do you realize how pathetic that sounds. Ignore the facts just use the red book of excuses, really have to wonder at the mental capacity of you lot when you come out with crap like this

As if number of posts has any correlation to knowledge or validity of the post. I would rather read one well written post than the hundreds of nonsensical posts of undying devotion to a junta government by jack booted, goose stepping facists that seem to clog up this space.

[Fat Haggis]

I would like to know what the Junta dos with the rice once they took over? If they are claiming that it's still going off and rotting away incurring even more loses, just whose responsibilities are those to protect the stocks welfate now?

If they knew warehouse were not up to storing, then they are the governing body should have taken care of that product and doing all they couid to stop the rice from rotting, failure in doing so isn't rhe PTPs negligent it's theirs surely?

If you knew cars were getting stolen from a compound you took over, wouldn't you take the necessary steps to prevent more thefts after you've taken over?

If that rice continues to rot in substandard storage, it's the present administrations responsibility to stop the rot!!

Sure as there's shit in a dog Yingluck is negligent, but she's not alone with that one!!

[Fat Haggis]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Just more political assination by the Junta.

The Junta has given itself judicial power to have people tried for whatever crimes it can create and find them guilty. If the former judicial system isn't set up to address the crimes that the Junta wants to pursue, it will find solutions within its absolute power of sovereignty over Thais. The Junta shows there is no Thainess about oligarchy rule, the objectives are the same found elsewehere throughout history - eliminate political opposition and handicap the sovereignty of the people.

What a load of rubbish. Why don't you post something with a constructive discussion?

That's a bit rich isn't it!! Pot and kettle spring to mind with your post, why don't you need your own advice then?

Are you some sort of moderator and SME on this scheme? Or just another kool aid drinker?

[LuckyLew]

Why not file suite to recoup the losses that occurred while the yellow shirts occupied the airport? Hmmmmm...

and also when thaksin and friends closed down ratchaprasong ... then burned it down

[greenchair]

Why not file suite to recoup the losses that occurred while the yellow shirts occupied the airport? Hmmmmm...

How would you quantify those losses?

Wasn't it something like a 50 billion baht per day in lost import export fees. Airport fees. Lost wages to all the staff on paid leave. That's not even counting the damage it did to the tourist industry. Almost crippled this country and took a very long time to recover.

The poor policy loss of the rice scheme is a piss in the ocean, compared to what these coups have cost thailand.

[rubl]

Simple. If she can show where the money actually went, and that the loss was caused by adverse economic and financial issues beyond her control then she shouldn't have to pay. Of course she'll need to show how she actively managed those issues to the best of her and her teams abilities to mitigate against such issues and manage the risks as best she could,

If on the other hand, if it's apparent she did bugger all, ignored all warnings home and abroad, lied, and permitted gross mismanagement and theft and actually has no idea (or not prepared to say) where the money went then she should be held responsible for such negligence.

The specific GtoG deals were apparently bent, but didn't somene go to jail already? The accusation is that rice wasn't exported but was somehow shifted to the domestic market. Why this should have created such a massive loss, I can't undertand.

The paper loss on the whole system is in line with the prices paid against the current prices.

Pay the farmer, process the rice, store it, packaage it. Its all in line, and the current bunch claim there isn't a huge amount physically missing.

Ah, so the 700 billion Baht loss is all in line with the 'self-financing' RPPS ?

Maybe 'negligence' was an incorrect charge. Seem more like 'defrauding the Nation'. Let's hope the Supreme Court accept the charge aainst Ms. Yingluck. I for one can't wait to hear Ms. Yingluck's explanations and have insight in her administration methods.

[rubl]

Why not file suite to recoup the losses that occurred while the yellow shirts occupied the airport? Hmmmmm...

How would you quantify those losses?

Wasn't it something like a 50 billion baht per day in lost import export fees. Airport fees. Lost wages to all the staff on paid leave. That's not even counting the damage it did to the tourist industry. Almost crippled this country and took a very long time to recover.

The poor policy loss of the rice scheme is a piss in the ocean, compared to what these coups have cost thailand.

700 billion Baht loss on a self-financing scheme means a yearly reservation in the National Budget of 110 billion Baht for seven years to repaid. That type of money could have been used for other things, like co-financing infrastructure projects.

[rubl]

I would like to know what the Junta dos with the rice once they took over? If they are claiming that it's still going off and rotting away incurring even more loses, just whose responsibilities are those to protect the stocks welfate now?

If they knew warehouse were not up to storing, then they are the governing body should have taken care of that product and doing all they couid to stop the rice from rotting, failure in doing so isn't rhe PTPs negligent it's theirs surely?

If you knew cars were getting stolen from a compound you took over, wouldn't you take the necessary steps to prevent more thefts after you've taken over?

If that rice continues to rot in substandard storage, it's the present administrations responsibility to stop the rot!!

Sure as there's shit in a dog Yingluck is negligent, but she's not alone with that one!!

There was a mention a few days ago I think that due to ongoing cases and possible cases not all rice could be moved / sold.

Furthermore I guess that with so much rice still in stock and space needed for the new season crops, there may be a lack of good facilities to store the old rice. Of course cleaning and fumigating and restoring may preserve the rice in it's current 'condition' with only the normal, natural deterioration effecting it. I think under ideal conditions rice needs to be sold off within four years before it loses some of it's natural lustre.

Interesting would be calculations which can determine when it's cheaper to throw away a lot rather than try preserve it for a few years.

[Thai at Heart]

It is expensive to do, but it can be done. I don't see why the govt is on the hook for it. The warehouse owners are being paid to store something.

if the rice is rotting, then sue the warehouse owners.

If there was corruption in the GtoG stuff, isn't there already someone convicted of this. Surely that is the first port of call.

"Sue the warehouse owners" ? Can they perform miracles ?

For how many years can rice be kept in a warehouse without eventually deteriorating?

[Thai at Heart]

Simple. If she can show where the money actually went, and that the loss was caused by adverse economic and financial issues beyond her control then she shouldn't have to pay. Of course she'll need to show how she actively managed those issues to the best of her and her teams abilities to mitigate against such issues and manage the risks as best she could,

If on the other hand, if it's apparent she did bugger all, ignored all warnings home and abroad, lied, and permitted gross mismanagement and theft and actually has no idea (or not prepared to say) where the money went then she should be held responsible for such negligence.

The specific GtoG deals were apparently bent, but didn't somene go to jail already? The accusation is that rice wasn't exported but was somehow shifted to the domestic market. Why this should have created such a massive loss, I can't undertand.

The paper loss on the whole system is in line with the prices paid against the current prices.

Pay the farmer, process the rice, store it, packaage it. Its all in line, and the current bunch claim there isn't a huge amount physically missing.

Ah, so the 700 billion Baht loss is all in line with the 'self-financing' RPPS ?

Maybe 'negligence' was an incorrect charge. Seem more like 'defrauding the Nation'. Let's hope the Supreme Court accept the charge aainst Ms. Yingluck. I for one can't wait to hear Ms. Yingluck's explanations and have insight in her administration methods.

The loss is accounted for, because there haven't been enough sales at the right price. This is accounted for without any corruption.

[rubl]

Simple. If she can show where the money actually went, and that the loss was caused by adverse economic and financial issues beyond her control then she shouldn't have to pay. Of course she'll need to show how she actively managed those issues to the best of her and her teams abilities to mitigate against such issues and manage the risks as best she could,

If on the other hand, if it's apparent she did bugger all, ignored all warnings home and abroad, lied, and permitted gross mismanagement and theft and actually has no idea (or not prepared to say) where the money went then she should be held responsible for such negligence.

The specific GtoG deals were apparently bent, but didn't somene go to jail already? The accusation is that rice wasn't exported but was somehow shifted to the domestic market. Why this should have created such a massive loss, I can't undertand.

The paper loss on the whole system is in line with the prices paid against the current prices.

Pay the farmer, process the rice, store it, packaage it. Its all in line, and the current bunch claim there isn't a huge amount physically missing.

Ah, so the 700 billion Baht loss is all in line with the 'self-financing' RPPS ?

Maybe 'negligence' was an incorrect charge. Seem more like 'defrauding the Nation'. Let's hope the Supreme Court accept the charge aainst Ms. Yingluck. I for one can't wait to hear Ms. Yingluck's explanations and have insight in her administration methods.

The loss is accounted for, because there haven't been enough sales at the right price. This is accounted for without any corruption.

It seems with every new RPPS topic you come with the same refuted reasoning and a few new tactics.

For one we know the BAAC president stated in November 2014 still to wait for 750 billion Baht from the government. To suggest that therefor the loss is accounted for seems to avoid the need for paperwork. Neither Ms. Yingluck, nor her ministers ever managed even a single A4 page.

BTW corruption comes in many forms. Paying way above marker prices to middleman and rich farmers is one such form. Declaring accounting details a State Secret is another form.

Oh, I really like your imagination. The loss is in not being able to sell at the right price. A real gem, allows us to avoid the need to mention we paid too much for paddy in the first place.

Edited March 10, 2015 by rubl

[rubl]

The loss is accounted for, because there haven't been enough sales at the right price. This is accounted for without any corruption.

Before you wrote

"The paper loss on the whole system is in line with the prices paid against the current prices."

So what's the difference? You tried to explain a while ago that 'paper loss' meant 'not yet realised loss'. Loss accounted for because of sales 'not at the right price' seems to be realised losses.

None of course has any relation with 'self-financing'

[wolfmanjack]

I would like to know what the Junta dos with the rice once they took over? If they are claiming that it's still going off and rotting away incurring even more loses, just whose responsibilities are those to protect the stocks welfate now?

If they knew warehouse were not up to storing, then they are the governing body should have taken care of that product and doing all they couid to stop the rice from rotting, failure in doing so isn't rhe PTPs negligent it's theirs surely?

If you knew cars were getting stolen from a compound you took over, wouldn't you take the necessary steps to prevent more thefts after you've taken over?

If that rice continues to rot in substandard storage, it's the present administrations responsibility to stop the rot!!

Sure as there's shit in a dog Yingluck is negligent, but she's not alone with that one!!

Perhaps you can suggest a cost effective way of storing the rice to stop it from rotting? Rice only lasts so long in a hot, humid, oxygen rich environment. The only way to stop it from degrading is to replace oxygen with a gas like nitrogen and store it at a cool temperature. In other words they would have to have it in refrigerated warehouses and packaged in vacuum sealed bags.