Jingthing Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Israel commits grave, systematic violations of international law; expands beyond its borders; and seriously abuses the human rights of Palestinians terrorised by settlers acting with impunity. The evidence is irrefutable - and the theatrics of apartheid apologists can no longer hide it.I suppose you are referring to west bank Gaza non-Israelis. But the OP is about actual Arab Israelis. No way can their situation be described as apartheid.Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app If Arabs in the West Bank aren't in Israel, then why have Israelis been settling in the West Bank? Are they immigrating to a new country? The OP is CLEARLY about Arab Israeli CITIZENS (20 percent of the total population of Israel). So you're just trying to divert this thread way off topic. There are plenty of other threads to discuss West Bank / Gaza. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Roadman Posted March 11, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted March 11, 2015 (edited) Personally, I condemn the rhetoric in the OP. Anyone who actually believes this is going to be real Israeli policy, please enter your name on the sales prospect list for the Brooklyn Bridge. The issue that you are laboriously trying to step around is not the policy red herring, but that this is accepted consideration of not only Israeli leaders but their citizens as well as shown by their absurd treatment of non Jewish citizens. In my country a FM or any MP or government official making comments like this would be stood down immediately, and eventually sacked from the public outrage. But then Israel is that far out of control towards those of their own citizens who are not Jew or the citizens of Jewish occupied territories that nothing that is said or done from a Jewish viewpoint surprises anymore. One would have thought that for a race who chooses to show demand such indignation for their handling at the hands of the Nazi's that they would have at least some understanding of the resentment coming from Jewish occupied and seized lands. Edited March 11, 2015 by Roadman 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lissos Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Israel is blockading Gaza as a collective punishment for Palestinians who freely and fairly elected a government that Israel didn't like. Israel didn't 'have' to like the result of that election (a climate in which Hamas threw political opponents off roof tops). Gazans chose to vote for a turd to rule over them (not the first error of political judgement in Palestinian history). Democracy doesn't nescessarily mean that the entity which is victorious, is going to be wise and constructive. Israel chose to contain the threat of a hostile Hamas ruled territory right next to them, a quite logical response to the vote. I suggest that various forms of containment will happen towards ISIS, in a region not stepping up to the plate to defeat it. Collective punishment is a tactic openly embraced and encouraged by movements such such as BDS (Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions) Our Governments also routinely sanction nations who's actions / choices we dissaprove of (in recent months, Russia is one example). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steely Dan Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Hey, look how quickly the goalposts moved! Apparently Steely Dan read my mind and decided to discern that I was only speaking of Gaza, and Gaza hasn't been occupied at any time in the last 50 years, and that Israel clearly hasn't killed any civilians over the course of the last 50 years in any other occupied territories, right? You do realize that we were talking about all the civilians killed in the last 50 years, right? So why did you make such a blatantly false reply to my comment? Do you just like Red Herring diversions? By the way, I welcome the news that Israel is no longer in control of Gaza. So I assume that it's free to form its own international government, control its own borders, issue its own passports, raise its own military, join the UN, and negotiate its own foreign treaties, right? And Israel shouldn't carry out military actions within its borders without it de facto being an act of war against a foreign government, right? I guess you should ask Hamas as to why Gaza is subject to the restrictions it faces. So you'll just continue to ignore the fact that we were talking about civilians killed in the entire history of Israel over the last 50 years, and not just the recent history of Gaza? And saying that Israel doesn't have the death penalty is laughable. Israel sentences people to death whenever it likes. They even execute people in foreign countries when it serves their aims. The fact that they chose not to hold a trial before an execution doesn't somehow make it better. Wake me up when you accidentally stray on topic, stopped clocks spring to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
englishoak Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Hey, look how quickly the goalposts moved! Apparently Steely Dan read my mind and decided to discern that I was only speaking of Gaza, and Gaza hasn't been occupied at any time in the last 50 years, and that Israel clearly hasn't killed any civilians over the course of the last 50 years in any other occupied territories, right? You do realize that we were talking about all the civilians killed in the last 50 years, right? So why did you make such a blatantly false reply to my comment? Do you just like Red Herring diversions? By the way, I welcome the news that Israel is no longer in control of Gaza. So I assume that it's free to form its own international government, control its own borders, issue its own passports, raise its own military, join the UN, and negotiate its own foreign treaties, right? And Israel shouldn't carry out military actions within its borders without it de facto being an act of war against a foreign government, right? I guess you should ask Hamas as to why Gaza is subject to the restrictions it faces. So you'll just continue to ignore the fact that we were talking about civilians killed in the entire history of Israel over the last 50 years, and not just the recent history of Gaza? And saying that Israel doesn't have the death penalty is laughable. Israel sentences people to death whenever it likes. They even execute people in foreign countries when it serves their aims. The fact that they chose not to hold a trial before an execution doesn't somehow make it better. Wake me up when you accidentally stray on topic, stopped clocks spring to mind. Look whos talking ? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Seastallion Posted March 11, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted March 11, 2015 Israel commits grave, systematic violations of international law; expands beyond its borders; and seriously abuses the human rights of Palestinians terrorised by settlers acting with impunity. The evidence is irrefutable - and the theatrics of apartheid apologists can no longer hide it.I suppose you are referring to west bank Gaza non-Israelis. But the OP is about actual Arab Israelis. No way can their situation be described as apartheid.Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app You have GOT to be joking that the Arab Israelis don't live under apartheid! The OP itself describes one (of many) instances of apartheid within Israel. Behead disloyal Israeli Arabs. That is singling out one particular punishment for one race for a particular "crime" that could be committed by any race or religion. Does Lieberman propose disloyal Jews be beheaded? 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chonburiram Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 The big dilemma with the Jews, they are more German than they are able to cope with... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 The big dilemma with the Jews, they are more German than they are able to cope with... ... Sure thing, dude. If Jews are Nazis as you suggest, what are Jew hating Palestinian terrorists? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Back to the topic, if it was up to me, which it is not, I would want Lieberman to be pushed out of government for talking such trash. Maybe Israelis will move a bit to the left in this election ... stranger things have happened. On a more sober note if there are Israeli citizens who are working with forces dedicated to the destruction of Israel, the state of Israel is within her rights to deal with them using their existing legal system, like any country would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 (edited) When two sides are in an armed military conflict, as recently happened Hamas vs. Israel, it is the normal goal of any civilized nation to minimize the casualties on your own side. So the Israel demonizers unjustly criticize Israel for successfully avoiding large casualties on the Israeli side. That is called WINNING. Israel can't afford to badly lose even one war. It's like the Israel haters wish there were more dead Jews. Israel says NO THANKS! Hamas on the other hand has been quite open about their tactics, to NOT protect their people with shelters, and to basically invite large casualties by placing military operations in populated areas. With this they produce effective propaganda to further their cause. As far as the tunnels going into Israel that I referred to, they were military in intention ... so again, stop the lies. Anyway, how about back to the actual TOPIC?Israel does have a problem with loyalty of some of her citizens. Obviously beheading or threatening beheading is not the right way. But it is still is a problem. Edited March 12, 2015 by Jingthing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post dexterm Posted March 12, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted March 12, 2015 Hamas deliberately operated in heavily populated areas so Israel right or wrong, decided they were valid military targets. The Gaza Strip is all heavily populated ...a mere 6.8 miles by 32 miles (about the size of Chicago city!), and even less than that when you consider the invisible buffer zone that Israel refuses to define, hence on a daily basis Gazans get shot at by the IDF sometimes fatally because Palestinian farmers and fishermen have transgressed the IDF’s unwritten rules. http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/inpictures/2015/02/gaza-farmers-front-lines-perpetual-war-150223184305316.html With a population density (5046/km2 to 5,300/km2) about the same as Bangkok’s http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangkok Can you imagine a civilian population in a Bangkok or Chicago war zone trying to avoid artillery shells, helicopter gunships, and aircraft missiles? Hamas had no choice in defending themselves ....Gaza is all a heavily populated area. There’s nowhere for civilians to shelter (an even those got blown up by the most moral army in the world) and the exits have all been blocked by Israel and Egypt. The IDF knew this full well but deliberately went on to kill 2,200 including over 500 innocent children. That’s genocide. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKKBobby Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 (edited) Stop talking like being jew in Israel is dangerous. Its much more dangerous in Sleeze By The Sea with all those Arab and Iranian sextourists. 555 Edited March 12, 2015 by BKKBobby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockyBeerbelly Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 The big dilemma with the Jews, they are more German than they are able to cope with... ... Sure thing, dude. If Jews are Nazis as you suggest, what are Jew hating Palestinian terrorists? Get your fact straight dude. A nazi was someone who was a member of the National Socialist Workers' Party, so no, Jews (?!) are not nazis. The Israeli government however works from a fascist principle. Anyway, what we would have called Palistinians in the 1940ies Europe? They would have been The Resistance. Funny that. In REAL LIFE, the Palestinian Arabs were directly allied with the totally FASCIST Hitler and the Nazis and openly working towards the genocide of both the European and Middle Eastern Jews. That was a case of real genocide, intended, carried out, and successful. Facts straight indeed. You think its funny, I think its sad that Palestinians (which were really bedouins at that time) were supporting the fascist regime in Germany in the 1940ies and murdering all those innocent people (that was genocide, at least you have that fact straight) . That was real life in the 40ies. REAL LIFE now however is completely different, if it wasn't we wouldn't be having this discussion. The world has changed since WW2 and now a buch of scary, dangerous people with a extreme right-wing ideology are the government of Israel 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post dexterm Posted March 12, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted March 12, 2015 (edited) The big dilemma with the Jews, they are more German than they are able to cope with... ... Sure thing, dude. If Jews are Nazis as you suggest, what are Jew hating Palestinian terrorists? Get your fact straight dude. A nazi was someone who was a member of the National Socialist Workers' Party, so no, Jews (?!) are not nazis. The Israeli government however works from a fascist principle. Anyway, what we would have called Palistinians in the 1940ies Europe? They would have been The Resistance. Funny that. In REAL LIFE, the Palestinian Arabs were directly allied with the totally FASCIST Hitler and the Nazis and openly working towards the genocide of both the European and Middle Eastern Jews. That was a case of real genocide, intended, carried out, and successful. Facts straight indeed. A bit of a red herring, JT. Don't you frequently accuse posters of demonizing Israel, and aren't you doing the same thing now besmirching all Palestinians because of events in Europe 80 years ago? Aren't you forgetting that Jews collaborated with Hitler too when it was in their interests.. Hitler's Jewish Soldiers: The Untold Story of Nazi Racial Laws and Men of Jewish Descent in the German Military (Modern War Studies) http://www.amazon.com/Hitlers-Jewish-Soldiers-Descent-Military/dp/0700613587 During the Holocaust in Nazi-occupied Europe, the Jews who helped implement the Final Solution, such as members of Judenrat or the Jewish Police, were considered "valuable Jews" (German: Wertvolle Juden). They, and sometimes members of their families as well, were immune from deportation for extermination so long as they served the Nazis' purposes. Also, Jews who had helped plan the 1936 Summer Olympics in Berlin were considered useful to the regime and were spared deportation. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_Jew The Transfer agreement between Zionist Jews and the Nazis after Zionists initiated an economic boycott against Germany http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Transfer_Agreement in an attempt to boost the Jewish population of Palestine of course at the expense of the already existing Palestinian population. Edited March 12, 2015 by dexterm 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 (edited) No. there is a HUGE difference between opposing government policies and explicitly wanting the end of your own country. For example, protesters of the Vietnam war in the U.S. were largely quite patriotic Americans but against the war. See the difference? I hope so. If you're an Israeli citizen and you hope that the enemies of Israel take over the land and abolish the country, you are indeed an enemy within. Does the Israeli right wing as in the OP inflame this problem? No doubt. But there is still a problem. Edited March 12, 2015 by Jingthing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prbkk Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Sounds like a ready made replacement for that evil Sharon...long may he rot in hell. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Numerous off-topic posts and replies have been removed. Please re-read the OP and stay on topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post JingerBen Posted March 12, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted March 12, 2015 No. there is a HUGE difference between opposing government policies and explicitly wanting the end of your own country. For example, protesters of the Vietnam war in the U.S. were largely quite patriotic Americans but against the war. See the difference? I hope so. If you're an Israeli citizen and you hope that the enemies of Israel take over the land and abolish the country, you are indeed an enemy within. Does the Israeli right wing as in the OP inflame this problem? No doubt. But there is still a problem. No analogy with the Vietnam War is relevant here, and you are disingenuous in suggesting it. Opposition to the Likud government from within by Israeli Arabs and Israeli peace groups is in response to the mass killing of civilians, land grabs, and expulsions carried out by a government that is an international outlaw. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 (edited) Again the issue isn't opposition to current government policies or the wisdom of recent and future war tactics but rather more basic. Loyalty to the nation you are a citizen of or loyalty to the military enemies of your nation. It's always a tense issue such as how Japanese Americans were treated in WW2. Wasn't there an Israeli Arab elected official who was openly supporting Hamas in the recent flare up? That's clearly treasonous. Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app Edited March 12, 2015 by Jingthing 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post BKKBobby Posted March 12, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted March 12, 2015 (edited) Again the issue isn't opposition to current government policies or the wisdom of recent and future war tactics but rather more basic. Loyalty to the nation you are a citizen of or loyalty to the military enemies of your nation. It's always a tense issue such as how Japanese Americans were treated in WW2. Wasn't there an Israeli Arab elected official who was openly supporting Hamas in the recent flare up? That's clearly treasonous. Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app Off-topic Next... Edited March 12, 2015 by BKKBobby 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Again the issue isn't opposition to current government policies or the wisdom of recent and future war tactics but rather more basic. Loyalty to the nation you are a citizen of or loyalty to the military enemies of your nation. It's always a tense issue such as how Japanese Americans were treated in WW2. Wasn't there an Israeli Arab elected official who was openly supporting Hamas in the recent flare up? That's clearly treasonous. Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app Off-topic Next... Loyalty of Israeli citizens is totally on topic. I think we all agree beheading is out of bounds.Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chonburiram Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 ...I think we all agree beheading is out of bounds. Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app Why?It's the flavour of the day... the climate is right, Israel should start to play hardball; arabic muslims will be forgotten faster than Native Americans... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 (edited) ...I think we all agree beheading is out of bounds. Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app Why?It's the flavour of the day... the climate is right, Israel should start to play hardball; arabic muslims will be forgotten faster than Native Americans... That's ridiculous and you know it. The Middle East is chock full of Arabic (and other) Muslims. There is one small island of mostly Jews there called Israel. That's it. Edited March 12, 2015 by Jingthing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chonburiram Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 (edited) 242... Edited March 12, 2015 by Chonburiram 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorgal Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 (edited) 242...Most people here on TV don't know Front 242.Thanks to bring this back on ! The one with Rika Zarai is better related to the OP. Cheers. And euh...Lieberman should apologize to the Arab Israeli's...asap... Edited March 12, 2015 by Thorgal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Chonburiram Posted March 12, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted March 12, 2015 242...Most people here on TV don't know Front 242.Thanks to bring this back on ! The one with Rika Zarai is better related to the OP. Cheers. And euh...Lieberman should apologize to the Arab Israeli's...asap... Most people forgot about UN resolution 242... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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