than Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Source : Human Right Watch Wolrd report 2014 Thailand : The status of government investigations into alleged crimes by the UDD-linked “Black Shirt” militants remains unclear. Despite clear photographic and other evidence, the UDD leadership and its supporters, including those holding positions in the government and the parliament, continue to assert that the UDD had no armed elements at the time of the 2010 events. Why PTP government try to disrupt investigation against Red shirt militia by denial existence of black shirt. This is one of evidence show collusion between UDD and PTP in violence. "You make the job, I protect you" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heybruce Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 I'm sure I would have seen it in the news if the army had released evidence linking the PTP government to a Khon Khaen terrorist cell. If there were such I news story why don't you provide a link? Khon Khaen terrorist cell link to UDD, UDD link to PTP. Q.E.D. !!!!! I'm very sad for you It's a choc for you to learn that yours heroes were only a criminal gang..... But I think you begun your reconstruction work Currently you are between the phase 2 or 3 : the denial, the anger and bargaining the next step will be the sadness, resignation, acceptance and finally rebuilding....... I know it's not easy for you currently, but I hope you will see the true soon..... Take care !!!!! I ask for news links, and you provide: "Khon Khaen terrorist cell link to UDD, UDD link to PTP. Q.E.D. !!!!!" Sorry, I don't get my news from posters on the TV forum. Once again, do you have links to credible sources to support your claims? Your nonsense about my reconstruction work is a trip into fantasy land, much like the fantasy of many posters that a military junta will lead to a better democracy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbthailand Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 That I said the denial is the best ally of red shirts...... Blah, blah! No evidence! Evidence has been show by the past ............... Where is your evidence that PTP has been not link to this The basic rule is that it is the accusing party that must provide proofs, not the contrary. What you cite show the Khon Khaen terrorist cell belongs to the same political side as the PTP, not that the PTP government ordered the killings. so far, the KK "terrorist cell" is just a figment of the military junta's imagination... Let's start with that fairy tale before asking for proof that the PTP government ordered attacks against the PDRC... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billd766 Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 (edited) Many posters stated that the PTP froze bank accounts of protest leaders, but provide no specifics. Were these 'leaders' leading protests in clear violation of the law? The ones illegally occupying government property, blocking roads, refusing legal orders to disperse, etc.? Chaturon Chaisang defied an order to report to the junta, where he undoubtedly would have been held incommunicado without charge for an indefinite period for 'attitude adjustment'. Before being released the detainees are forced to sign a documents: "that allow the junta to seize their assets if they become involved with “any political movement.”" http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/10/world/asia/thailand-junta-drowning-the-opposition-in-paperwork.html?_r=4 The only illegal act mentioned is his refusal to comply to the junta's order, which is of questionable legallity. The type of detention he would have been subjected to is a clear violation of human rights and would not be deemed legal by an international court. Purely out of curiousity but have YOU ever seen this document that you claim the detainees are forced to sign? Was it in English or Thai and if it was in Thai are your Thai language skills good enough to read it? If not how do you KNOW that the detainees HAVE to sign it? Because Thomas Fuller said so. If so why is nobody else reporting on it. So it only seems to be two lines in the New York Times and not on the worlds TV news stations or in any other paper that I could see in a Google search. No copy of the "paper they must sign", just this report by Thomas Fuller, the Southeast Asia Correspondent for The New York Times based in Bangkok. Nothing anywhere else I could see but perhaps I was looking in the wrong place. Edited March 12, 2015 by billd766 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heybruce Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Many posters stated that the PTP froze bank accounts of protest leaders, but provide no specifics. Were these 'leaders' leading protests in clear violation of the law? The ones illegally occupying government property, blocking roads, refusing legal orders to disperse, etc.? Chaturon Chaisang defied an order to report to the junta, where he undoubtedly would have been held incommunicado without charge for an indefinite period for 'attitude adjustment'. Before being released the detainees are forced to sign a documents: "that allow the junta to seize their assets if they become involved with “any political movement.”" http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/10/world/asia/thailand-junta-drowning-the-opposition-in-paperwork.html?_r=4 The only illegal act mentioned is his refusal to comply to the junta's order, which is of questionable legallity. The type of detention he would have been subjected to is a clear violation of human rights and would not be deemed legal by an international court. Purely out of curiousity but have YOU ever seen this document that you claim the detainees are forced to sign? Was it in English or Thai and if it was in Thai are your Thai language skills good enough to read it? If not how do you KNOW that the detainees HAVE to sign it? Because Thomas Fuller said so. If so why is nobody else reporting on it. So it only seems to be two lines in the New York Times and not on the worlds TV news stations or in any other paper that I could see in a Google search. No copy of the "paper they must sign", just this report by Thomas Fuller, the Southeast Asia Correspondent for The New York Times based in Bangkok. Nothing anywhere else I could see but perhaps I was looking in the wrong place. Do I fact check every article published by a reputable newspaper that I reference? No. Do you? Why is nobody else reporting about this document? Probably because it's difficult to get people who have had their attitude adjusted to talk about what they went through, it's difficult for foreign journalists to meet with these people without attracting attention from the junta, and no domestic newspaper would dare violate censorship with a report describing the junta's tactics. Why don't you prove the opposite? In your search for details about the release conditions for people held for attitude adjustment, did you find any detainees willing to talk to the press about their experience? Do you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billd766 Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Many posters stated that the PTP froze bank accounts of protest leaders, but provide no specifics. Were these 'leaders' leading protests in clear violation of the law? The ones illegally occupying government property, blocking roads, refusing legal orders to disperse, etc.? Chaturon Chaisang defied an order to report to the junta, where he undoubtedly would have been held incommunicado without charge for an indefinite period for 'attitude adjustment'. Before being released the detainees are forced to sign a documents: "that allow the junta to seize their assets if they become involved with “any political movement.”" http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/10/world/asia/thailand-junta-drowning-the-opposition-in-paperwork.html?_r=4 The only illegal act mentioned is his refusal to comply to the junta's order, which is of questionable legallity. The type of detention he would have been subjected to is a clear violation of human rights and would not be deemed legal by an international court. Purely out of curiousity but have YOU ever seen this document that you claim the detainees are forced to sign? Was it in English or Thai and if it was in Thai are your Thai language skills good enough to read it? If not how do you KNOW that the detainees HAVE to sign it? Because Thomas Fuller said so. If so why is nobody else reporting on it. So it only seems to be two lines in the New York Times and not on the worlds TV news stations or in any other paper that I could see in a Google search. No copy of the "paper they must sign", just this report by Thomas Fuller, the Southeast Asia Correspondent for The New York Times based in Bangkok. Nothing anywhere else I could see but perhaps I was looking in the wrong place. Do I fact check every article published by a reputable newspaper that I reference? No. Do you? Why is nobody else reporting about this document? Probably because it's difficult to get people who have had their attitude adjusted to talk about what they went through, it's difficult for foreign journalists to meet with these people without attracting attention from the junta, and no domestic newspaper would dare violate censorship with a report describing the junta's tactics. Why don't you prove the opposite? In your search for details about the release conditions for people held for attitude adjustment, did you find any detainees willing to talk to the press about their experience? Do you? No I don't check them all but then again I am not the one making the claim. YOU are so why don't YOU substantiate what you claim? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honkie Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Can he get legal aid to do that ? the ptp govt he was a part of froze the bank accounts of several protesters prior to the general taking over and now we see this idiot trying to claim freezing his accounts unfair. Maybe he should do what the protesters did and take it to the courts to decide unless he knows that what he did deserves this and that the courts would back it up. If he believes this is not right them instead of mouthing off trying to get sympathy he should take legal action, thats what an innocent person would do but then we all know no ptp govt lackie is innocent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heybruce Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Many posters stated that the PTP froze bank accounts of protest leaders, but provide no specifics. Were these 'leaders' leading protests in clear violation of the law? The ones illegally occupying government property, blocking roads, refusing legal orders to disperse, etc.? Chaturon Chaisang defied an order to report to the junta, where he undoubtedly would have been held incommunicado without charge for an indefinite period for 'attitude adjustment'. Before being released the detainees are forced to sign a documents: "that allow the junta to seize their assets if they become involved with “any political movement.”" http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/10/world/asia/thailand-junta-drowning-the-opposition-in-paperwork.html?_r=4 The only illegal act mentioned is his refusal to comply to the junta's order, which is of questionable legallity. The type of detention he would have been subjected to is a clear violation of human rights and would not be deemed legal by an international court. Purely out of curiousity but have YOU ever seen this document that you claim the detainees are forced to sign? Was it in English or Thai and if it was in Thai are your Thai language skills good enough to read it? If not how do you KNOW that the detainees HAVE to sign it? Because Thomas Fuller said so. If so why is nobody else reporting on it. So it only seems to be two lines in the New York Times and not on the worlds TV news stations or in any other paper that I could see in a Google search. No copy of the "paper they must sign", just this report by Thomas Fuller, the Southeast Asia Correspondent for The New York Times based in Bangkok. Nothing anywhere else I could see but perhaps I was looking in the wrong place. Do I fact check every article published by a reputable newspaper that I reference? No. Do you? Why is nobody else reporting about this document? Probably because it's difficult to get people who have had their attitude adjusted to talk about what they went through, it's difficult for foreign journalists to meet with these people without attracting attention from the junta, and no domestic newspaper would dare violate censorship with a report describing the junta's tactics. Why don't you prove the opposite? In your search for details about the release conditions for people held for attitude adjustment, did you find any detainees willing to talk to the press about their experience? No I don't check them all but then again I am not the one making the claim. YOU are so why don't YOU substantiate what you claim? I substantiated my post by referencing a New York Times article. I trust their reporting much more than I trust the local censored newspapers, and much, much more than I trust the unsubstantiated claims made in this forum by many of the posters. Do you have any evidence that the article is wrong? You claimed you researched the article, in your research did you find any victims of this detention without charge and attitude adjustment that were willing to talk about their experience? If not,doesn't that strike you as odd, like maybe they're afraid of something? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbthailand Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 (edited) Many posters stated that the PTP froze bank accounts of protest leaders, but provide no specifics. Were these 'leaders' leading protests in clear violation of the law? The ones illegally occupying government property, blocking roads, refusing legal orders to disperse, etc.? Chaturon Chaisang defied an order to report to the junta, where he undoubtedly would have been held incommunicado without charge for an indefinite period for 'attitude adjustment'. Before being released the detainees are forced to sign a documents: "that allow the junta to seize their assets if they become involved with “any political movement.”" http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/10/world/asia/thailand-junta-drowning-the-opposition-in-paperwork.html?_r=4 The only illegal act mentioned is his refusal to comply to the junta's order, which is of questionable legallity. The type of detention he would have been subjected to is a clear violation of human rights and would not be deemed legal by an international court. Purely out of curiousity but have YOU ever seen this document that you claim the detainees are forced to sign? Was it in English or Thai and if it was in Thai are your Thai language skills good enough to read it? If not how do you KNOW that the detainees HAVE to sign it? Because Thomas Fuller said so. If so why is nobody else reporting on it. So it only seems to be two lines in the New York Times and not on the worlds TV news stations or in any other paper that I could see in a Google search. No copy of the "paper they must sign", just this report by Thomas Fuller, the Southeast Asia Correspondent for The New York Times based in Bangkok. Nothing anywhere else I could see but perhaps I was looking in the wrong place. Do I fact check every article published by a reputable newspaper that I reference? No. Do you? Why is nobody else reporting about this document? Probably because it's difficult to get people who have had their attitude adjusted to talk about what they went through, it's difficult for foreign journalists to meet with these people without attracting attention from the junta, and no domestic newspaper would dare violate censorship with a report describing the junta's tactics. Why don't you prove the opposite? In your search for details about the release conditions for people held for attitude adjustment, did you find any detainees willing to talk to the press about their experience? Do you? No I don't check them all but then again I am not the one making the claim. YOU are so why don't YOU substantiate what you claim? it has been reported since the first detainments in May.... Every one of them has been forced to sign the document. And the threat of freezing assets has been part of it. Some people, notably Pravik from the Nation made a public statement that he refused to sign this exact document. That is the only case of someone claiming to refuse to sign this document after their summons by the junta In short, it has not only been Fuller, but every paper which talks about this document says the same thing. You might want to get out more... edit, I saw a reference to Pravit from the nation saying that he did not sign one or more documents that the junta wanted. On the other hand, he does admit to signing more than one document. So in the end, it is perhaps wrong to say "one" document, but rather, it might be better to refer to many documents... Edited March 12, 2015 by tbthailand 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lildragon Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 I'm sure I would have seen it in the news if the army had released evidence linking the PTP government to a Khon Khaen terrorist cell. If there were such I news story why don't you provide a link? Khon Khaen terrorist cell link to UDD, UDD link to PTP. Q.E.D. !!!!! I'm very sad for you It's a choc for you to learn that yours heroes were only a criminal gang..... But I think you begun your reconstruction work Currently you are between the phase 2 or 3 : the denial, the anger and bargaining the next step will be the sadness, resignation, acceptance and finally rebuilding....... I know it's not easy for you currently, but I hope you will see the true soon..... Take care !!!!! I ask for news links, and you provide: "Khon Khaen terrorist cell link to UDD, UDD link to PTP. Q.E.D. !!!!!" Sorry, I don't get my news from posters on the TV forum. Once again, do you have links to credible sources to support your claims? Your nonsense about my reconstruction work is a trip into fantasy land, much like the fantasy of many posters that a military junta will lead to a better democracy. I'm surprised the old "my Thai wife told me that....." line didn't come out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockingrobin Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Here is one of the documents that detainees have to sign to get released translated into English http://www.thaigov.go.th/en/announcement-2/item/83709-id83709.html The Amnesty International report 100 days under martial law gives referance to asset seizure 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chooka Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Next time be an adult, stop to play rebel and comply with law..... It's not time to cry like a baby.... The same was said to Suthep, comply with the law but many on here said it was ok because he is batting for us so criminal activity is ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billd766 Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 Here is one of the documents that detainees have to sign to get released translated into English http://www.thaigov.go.th/en/announcement-2/item/83709-id83709.html The Amnesty International report 100 days under martial law gives referance to asset seizure Thank you very much for providing that information. It is something that the majority on Thai visa will never have to see or sign nor. I think will the majority of the Thai people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heybruce Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 Here is one of the documents that detainees have to sign to get released translated into English http://www.thaigov.go.th/en/announcement-2/item/83709-id83709.html The Amnesty International report 100 days under martial law gives referance to asset seizure It reminds me of "Sign ze papers old man" by Cheech and Chong. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVLDJHMGcQ8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAG Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 I'm sure I would have seen it in the news if the army had released evidence linking the PTP government to a Khon Khaen terrorist cell. If there were such I news story why don't you provide a link? Khon Khaen terrorist cell link to UDD, UDD link to PTP. Q.E.D. !!!!! I'm very sad for you It's a choc for you to learn that yours heroes were only a criminal gang..... But I think you begun your reconstruction work Currently you are between the phase 2 or 3 : the denial, the anger and bargaining the next step will be the sadness, resignation, acceptance and finally rebuilding....... I know it's not easy for you currently, but I hope you will see the true soon..... Take care !!!!! So that's your evidence that PTP ordered the killings? That I said the denial is the best ally of red shirts...... Blah, blah! No evidence! Like his beloved Junta he has no evidence and needs no evidence. His belief is ebough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAG Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 (edited) I'm sure I would have seen it in the news if the army had released evidence linking the PTP government to a Khon Khaen terrorist cell. If there were such I news story why don't you provide a link? Khon Khaen terrorist cell link to UDD, UDD link to PTP. Q.E.D. !!!!! I'm very sad for you It's a choc for you to learn that yours heroes were only a criminal gang..... But I think you begun your reconstruction work Currently you are between the phase 2 or 3 : the denial, the anger and bargaining the next step will be the sadness, resignation, acceptance and finally rebuilding....... I know it's not easy for you currently, but I hope you will see the true soon..... Take care !!!!! I ask for news links, and you provide: "Khon Khaen terrorist cell link to UDD, UDD link to PTP. Q.E.D. !!!!!" Sorry, I don't get my news from posters on the TV forum. Once again, do you have links to credible sources to support your claims? Your nonsense about my reconstruction work is a trip into fantasy land, much like the fantasy of many posters that a military junta will lead to a better democracy. I'm surprised the old "my Thai wife told me that....." line didn't come out. It's held in reserve until the argument has to be absolutely clinched! Edited March 13, 2015 by JAG 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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