Boonsong, 20 others to be indicted on Tuesday

[Lite Beer]

Boonsong, 20 others to be indicted on Tuesday

BANGKOK: -- Public prosecutors will Tuesday charge former commerce minister Boonsong Teriyapirom and 20 others for having allegedly faked government-to-government rice deals so that they could abuse the government's stockpiles.

The public prosecutors have informed the National Anti-Corruption Commission to bring the 21 suspects to the Office of the Attorney General Tuesday for the court arraignment.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/Boonsong-20-others-to-be-indicted-on-Tuesday-30256062.html

-- The Nation 2015-03-15

[clockman]

Till we actualy see them in jail. Dont believe anything!

[rasmus5150]

I hope they set a strict example for future politicians. And then I woke up.

[96tehtarp]

"faked government-to-government rice deals so that they could abuse the government's stockpiles."

The devil is in the details. As usual, no details have been given.

[Robby nz]

"faked government-to-government rice deals so that they could abuse the government's stockpiles."

The devil is in the details. As usual, no details have been given.

Why should they give details to you ?

But if you really want to know start with the way back stuff from 2012 :

Posted 2012-11-27 05:30:59 http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/600926-rice-deals-with-china-fake-thai-democrats/

Then you could ask the NACC if they will let you have a look at the 204,000 pages of documents they have gathered since then :

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/800984-boonsongs-case-files-on-fake-g-to-g-deals-received-by-the-oag/ BANGKOK: -- The National Anti-Corruption Commission (NACC) on Monday delivered the case files on fake government-to-government rice deals implicating former commerce minister Boonsong Teriyaphirom and 20 other associates to the Office of Attorney-General for consideration.

NACC assistant secretary-general Sakchai Methineephisarnkul said that the case files are made up of altogether 204,000 pages of documents contained in 59 crates which was handed over to Mr Wanchai Rujanawong, spokesman of the OAG and director of Public Prosecution Department, and Mr Chutichai Sakhakorn, director-general of the Office of Special Cases.

[96tehtarp]

"faked government-to-government rice deals so that they could abuse the government's stockpiles."

The devil is in the details. As usual, no details have been given.

Why should they give details to you ?

I am not asking them for the details. I wouldn't know what to do with them even if they did give them to me. I do point out however, that within the 204,000 pages of documents contained in 59 crates there has never been given a single concrete, tangible, or detailed report on the alleged misconduct, other than "fake". That's not enough.

We'll all just have to wait and see how the indictments pan out.

[MaxLee]

"faked government-to-government rice deals so that they could abuse the government's stockpiles."

The devil is in the details. As usual, no details have been given.

Just another attitude adjustment and the usual slap on the wrist and inactive post....

[talktomarty]

Witch hunt !!

[Robby nz]

"faked government-to-government rice deals so that they could abuse the government's stockpiles."

The devil is in the details. As usual, no details have been given.

Why should they give details to you ?

I am not asking them for the details. I wouldn't know what to do with them even if they did give them to me. I do point out however, that within the 204,000 pages of documents contained in 59 crates there has never been given a single concrete, tangible, or detailed report on the alleged misconduct, other than "fake". That's not enough.

We'll all just have to wait and see how the indictments pan out.

Why should they ?

This is a case that was taken to the AOG by the NACC for their consideration, after the AOC looked over the documents it has been decided there is a case to answer.

From here it goes to the courts where the evidence presented for and against the defendants will come out.

What do you think is in the 204,000 pages of documents if it isn't a detailed report ?

Not enough for who ? If you and your defender of corruption mates were to read up and understand subjects before you posted then you would post a lot less stupidity.

[96tehtarp]

"faked government-to-government rice deals so that they could abuse the government's stockpiles."

The devil is in the details. As usual, no details have been given.

Why should they give details to you ?

I am not asking them for the details. I wouldn't know what to do with them even if they did give them to me. I do point out however, that within the 204,000 pages of documents contained in 59 crates there has never been given a single concrete, tangible, or detailed report on the alleged misconduct, other than "fake". That's not enough.

We'll all just have to wait and see how the indictments pan out.

Why should they ?

This is a case that was taken to the AOG by the NACC for their consideration, after the AOC looked over the documents it has been decided there is a case to answer.

From here it goes to the courts where the evidence presented for and against the defendants will come out.

What do you think is in the 204,000 pages of documents if it isn't a detailed report ?

Not enough for who ? If you and your defender of corruption mates were to read up and understand subjects before you posted then you would post a lot less stupidity.

As I said, we'll just have to wait to see how the incitements pan out. So far not a single scrap of evidence has been made public, other than vague allegations of "fake".

This is not enough to meet even the lowest of reasonable international standards for allegations involving fraud.

I don't believe I have ever defended corruption or fraud in any post I have ever made on TV or any other forum.

The question is, "Where's the beef?"

[MaxLee]

Witch hunt !!

A special case for operation attitude adjustment, slap on the wrist and a happy smile on the accused politician's faces.... Happiness Thailand.... <- in special patronage cases rewarded with an inactive post with unlimited taxpayers' pension ,...

Edited March 15, 2015 by MaxLee

[Robby nz]

I am not asking them for the details. I wouldn't know what to do with them even if they did give them to me. I do point out however, that within the 204,000 pages of documents contained in 59 crates there has never been given a single concrete, tangible, or detailed report on the alleged misconduct, other than "fake". That's not enough.

We'll all just have to wait and see how the indictments pan out.

Why should they ?

This is a case that was taken to the AOG by the NACC for their consideration, after the AOC looked over the documents it has been decided there is a case to answer.

From here it goes to the courts where the evidence presented for and against the defendants will come out.

What do you think is in the 204,000 pages of documents if it isn't a detailed report ?

Not enough for who ? If you and your defender of corruption mates were to read up and understand subjects before you posted then you would post a lot less stupidity.

As I said, we'll just have to wait to see how the incitements pan out. So far not a single scrap of evidence has been made public, other than vague allegations of "fake".

This is not enough to meet even the lowest of reasonable international standards for allegations involving fraud.

I don't believe I have ever defended corruption or fraud in any post I have ever made on TV or any other forum.

The question is, "Where's the beef?"

Can you explain why anything should be made public at this point other than the fact that these people are going to be prosecuted ?

You should know by now if you had bothered to read up on the subject that that this is about massive corruption to the tune of billions of baht, and yes you are defending that by your preconceived bias.

Incidentally there is no beef, it is about rice.

[lucky11]

My god man!!! don't you understand anything you read?

Why does it need to be made public? what is your fixation about this irrelevant point.

Everything will come out in the long run - it seems clear to me that they LIED about having G-to-G contracts for the sale of rice to China in order to placate it's desperate rice farmer supporters who were starving and committing suicide from having no money to feed their families after being repeatedly LIED to about when they were going to be paid for their rice.

Don't you think that 59 crates worth of evidence pointing to this fact is a tad more than the concrete, tangible evidence that you are searching in vain for and claiming probably doesn't exist!!

[EnglishJohn]

... and yet again red-shirts try to say it's all a plot by the elite and their beloved Pheu-Thai never did anything wrong. Amazing hypocrisy.

If the deals were genuine, don't you think it would be very easy to prove it ?. Maybe a phone call to China would have sorted it out in 5 minutes.

It's clear that the issue here is not if they were fake, it's whether there is enough evidence for a court of law to convict the perpetrators - who, no doubt, are very experienced in covering their tracks while doing their dirty deeds. Actual guilt is pretty much beyond doubt.

And there is NO WAY that Yingluck,- Prime Minister and head of the rice committee - did not know about this. Or are you trying to deny that as well ?.

[96tehtarp]

My god man!!! don't you understand anything you read?

Why does it need to be made public? what is your fixation about this irrelevant point.

Everything will come out in the long run - it seems clear to me that they LIED about having G-to-G contracts for the sale of rice to China in order to placate it's desperate rice farmer supporters who were starving and committing suicide from having no money to feed their families after being repeatedly LIED to about when they were going to be paid for their rice.

Don't you think that 59 crates worth of evidence pointing to this fact is a tad more than the concrete, tangible evidence that you are searching in vain for and claiming probably doesn't exist!!

I have read extensively, and there so far is no substantive evidence of wide spread fraud. This explains why there are no high profile cases documented and publicized in the media, only empty talking points.

It is reasonable to expect evidence to be made public when a media report, a talking point of indictments have been made public without evidence. It is a basic journalistic prerogative. If there is anything to come out in the long run I hope that it does. It is my experience that 99% of all deals with China never materialize, they a very sharp traders. Optimistic projections of yet to be finalized sales to Chinese entities is not fraud, nor are they criminal.

Farmers commit suicide on a regular basis, more so now that the "Jum Rup Khow" is no more. Their preferred method is to drink "Ya Lanate."

"Don't you think that 59 crates worth of evidence pointing to this fact is a tad more than the concrete, tangible evidence that you are searching in vain for and claiming probably doesn't exist!!"

When served with a subpœna it's normal to turn in everything: toilet paper receipts, lunch receipts, taxi receipts, and the whole lot of everything. Likewise if the police seize something they take it all. Hell, in my home office I could easily turn in 59 crates of nothing for them to peruse diligently.

I'm not claiming anything. However it is now 228 days post the 2014 Thai coup d'état and the supreme court has still yet to decide if they will formerly charge Yingluck for "negligence", no fraud charges, no corruption charges... nothing. The latest procrastinated date is March 19th.

Where's the beef? Everyone who reads knows this was not about rice. It was about _"self censorship here_" Also, the only people who have been charged and punished for massive abuse of power so far have been _"self censorship here_." Yes, of course there were also the Phuket beach vendors and those guilty of land encroachments too. Yes too, those nasty lottery vendors peddling around in their wheelchairs selling lottery tickets at a 40 baht markup. Massive corruption needs to be stamped out.

So, Where's the beef?

...and please don't patronize me by suggesting that I'm pro red. It's a green world now.

Edited March 16, 2015 by 96tehtarp

[Daniel Ingalls]

Its called fudging the numbers, to balance the books. Something all accountants know.

[96tehtarp]

Its called fudging the numbers, to balance the books. Something all accountants know.

So far the auctions under the current government seem to be going pretty well, although nobody can dispute that the rice pledging scheme was a disaster. There have also been quite a few highly publicized G2G deals with china flouted.

[Rancid]

Witch hunt !!

More like crook hunt. Few things in life give me greater pleasure than seeing politicians and bankers being jailed.

Needless to say this is a rare occurrence in the West as the parasites are above the law.

[Baerboxer]

Its called fudging the numbers, to balance the books. Something all accountants know.

Fraudulent accounting and false book keeping - yes, certainly plenty of that involved.

The fake G2G deals, and the Thai companies involved, including the alleged forging of fake export documents to unlicensed non food Chinese businesses were reported on at the time.

Hopefully all the details of these frauds, along with others will come out at trial.

America and some EU countries now severely punish white collar crime. Time Thailand followed suit.

Wonder if any of the accused will consider a deal for information?

[MaxLee]

Its called fudging the numbers, to balance the books. Something all accountants know.

It's about saving face, something all influential Thais know about....

[Baerboxer]

Its called fudging the numbers, to balance the books. Something all accountants know.

So far the auctions under the current government seem to be going pretty well, although nobody can dispute that the rice pledging scheme was a disaster. There have also been quite a few highly publicized G2G deals with china flouted.

Maybe that's because these a real deals now aimed at selling off the very large stockpile, although at losses, as opposed to a fraud scam with fake deals. Just maybe.

[96tehtarp]

Its called fudging the numbers, to balance the books. Something all accountants know.

So far the auctions under the current government seem to be going pretty well, although nobody can dispute that the rice pledging scheme was a disaster. There have also been quite a few highly publicized G2G deals with china flouted.

Maybe that's because these a real deals now aimed at selling off the very large stockpile, although at losses, as opposed to a fraud scam with fake deals. Just maybe.

Precisely which fake deals?

[Eric Loh]

Don't Government to Government contracts needcto be vetted by the foreign trade department and the respective embassies? Are staffs from these institutions also being implicated? Certainly not a water tight case. Can go either way.

[Baerboxer]

Its called fudging the numbers, to balance the books. Something all accountants know.

So far the auctions under the current government seem to be going pretty well, although nobody can dispute that the rice pledging scheme was a disaster. There have also been quite a few highly publicized G2G deals with china flouted.

Maybe that's because these a real deals now aimed at selling off the very large stockpile, although at losses, as opposed to a fraud scam with fake deals. Just maybe.

Precisely which fake deals?

The ones which were made to sell rice to 2 companies in China that were not licensed to import rice by the Chinese government, nor Chinese government companies. Allegedly, export documentation was forged so the rice could be bought by a Thai trading company at lower export prices and then sold illegally on the home market. The Thai company involved was named in the reports, as was one of the senior's who is married to a prominent red shirt leader, currently on bail.

Don't you remember?

Let's see what details of this and other "deals" come out at the trial.

[Baerboxer]

Don't Government to Government contracts needcto be vetted by the foreign trade department and the respective embassies? Are staffs from these institutions also being implicated? Certainly not a water tight case. Can go either way.

Have you seen all the evidence - no. So you have no idea who is implicated, and how solid the case is in reality.

Unusually, senior civil servants have been sacked, with loss of pension and not simply transferred to some in active post. That might indicate the solidness of the evidence.

If you remember Yingluck, Mr. White lies at the Finance Ministry and the Commerce Ministry all announced G2G deals - but the other governments seemed shy to corroborate them and deal details were always hush, hush state secrets.

[96tehtarp]

Precisely which fake deals?

The ones which were made to sell rice to 2 companies in China that were not licensed to import rice by the Chinese government, nor Chinese government companies. Allegedly, export documentation was forged so the rice could be bought by a Thai trading company at lower export prices and then sold illegally on the home market. The Thai company involved was named in the reports, as was one of the senior's who is married to a prominent red shirt leader, currently on bail.

Don't you remember?

Let's see what details of this and other "deals" come out at the trial.

Thank you for your civil and informative reply.

Regarding trade with China, when the central government wants to tender for purchases of FX. urea; it is never a centralized purchase. The bidding requests go out to absolutely every entity in China. These entities then send out tenders to every imaginable entity on the planet. Very often these are offshore entities incorporated in places like the US. Virgin Islands or the Cayman Islands. That's how the Chinese do it. So, in my experience very few G2G deals with the Chinese are in fact government to government. I'll admit my experience is more than ten years dated. I'm suspicious of any claims of "Fake" deals, as I've had experience with private to govt. deals with China through these type of corporations and they went nowhere, by their very nature they are almost always fake.

I had a large request from someone in China that I had done business with previously for an astronomical amount of a specific raw material. It was out of my league. My associate within whose league the deal was called one of the leading commodity brokers on Wall St. who promptly told him to forget it, as this tender was already nearly a year old and had done the rounds thousands of times. Again this was a fake deal. Was it criminal? Certainly not.

"Allegedly, export documentation was forged so the rice could be bought by a Thai trading company at lower export prices and then sold illegally on the home market."

I have no doubt, and knowing Thailand as I do, with this amount of money floating around in a government scheme someone is going to try this. We will need to see how the indictments settle out.

It's obvious to me that the present military management is desperate to find massive wide-spread fraud which directly implicates the Shiniwatra family in the rice pledging scheme. So far nothing has stuck. As you and I have both stated w'ell have to wait and see.

This is Thailand, and I'll be very disappointed if nothing more than negligence or dereliction of duty can stick. I doubt the mere possibility of reselling already "exported" rice on the domestic market will be enough to find a conviction. A conviction will require actual sales.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Allegedly, export documentation was forged so the rice could be bought by a Thai trading company at lower export prices and then sold illegally on the home market. The Thai company involved was named in the reports, as was one of the senior's who is married to a prominent red shirt leader, currently on bail.the trial.

I think this above is the main point about these cases.

Allegedly, these cases weren't only about public officials making false public pronouncements in hopes of saving political face or currying favor with angry farmers.

The allegation is that these deals were faked in a manner that led to the rice being sold illegally on the Thai marketplace and officials and/or favored businessmen reaping illegal profits in the process -- at the expense of the public treasury.

Whether or not that really occurred, hopefully, the courts will decide based on the facts.