Netanyahu win dashes prospect for a thaw with Obama

[Ulysses G.]

Is The West Bank just a step in Israels final solution for the arabs living there? Is it a waiting station? Next stop=Jordan? Do Israel hope that the arabs will become Jordanian citizens eventually?

Israel could have easily gotten rid of the Arabs in 1948. Many of them had already left and many willingly. Instead, Israel asked them to stay and become solid citizens. Of course, Israel's patience might be running out by now.

[Seastallion]

Here is a CNN interview on the Netanyahu flap with Senator John McCain (R-AZ). He offers some good advice to the community organizer.

All you Islamic Firsters won't like it so turn your heads and don't look.

I don't know any Islamic Firsters, especially in this forum.

Well, there are certainly no such thing as "Israel firsters", but that does not stop you from using the term in an inordinate number of posts. He just turned some rather foolish rhetoric around on you.

I never said who was an "Islamic Firster" now did I. There are quite a few I would consider if forced to make a list.

By the same token, UG points out there are some that like to use "Israeli Firster".

A quick search found these posts:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/805203-netanyahu-assails-iran-deal-touts-us-israel-ties/page-2#entry9141555

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/807189-us-gop-tries-to-undercut-nuclear-deal-with-warning-to-iran/page-4#entry9178134

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/807189-us-gop-tries-to-undercut-nuclear-deal-with-warning-to-iran/page-4#entry9178174

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/809985-netanyahu-win-dashes-prospect-for-a-thaw-with-obama/page-8#entry9214178

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/805500-netanyahu-warns-us-bad-deal-would-put-iran-on-nuclear-path/page-2#entry9144949

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/805500-netanyahu-warns-us-bad-deal-would-put-iran-on-nuclear-path/page-3#entry9147384

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/803016-historic-us-iran-nuclear-deal-could-be-taking-shape/page-3#entry9113819

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/793600-why-the-muslim-no-go-zone-myth-wont-die/page-20#entry9066527

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/795593-palestinian-girl-14-in-israel-prison-for-throwing-rocks/page-9#entry9087820

Actually, UG accused me, not others of using the term "an inordinate number of times",.

Any of those quotes mine? I'm sure you spent a lot of time looking. He himself can't come up with any to back up his gross lie, and he's obviously not man enough to retract and apologise.

You did imply it was me by responding to me.....but that's OK, I won't press the point as you are struggling.

[Publicus]

<<snip>>

Fox Newz is the most distrusted network of its kind in the United States.

Very few respectable public figures appear there for a serious purpose.

This fact and reality will be difficult in the extreme for the far out right to accept because the narrative for so long has been in the opposite direction. Read this however to see the data each way, both ways, trusted and distrusted.

Poll: Fox Is the Least-Trusted Name in News

By Allison Brito, The National Memo

ccording to a Public Policy Polling report released on Wednesday, Fox News is now the least-trusted name in news.

http://readersupportednews.org/news-section2/317-65/15927-poll-fox-is-the-least-trusted-name-in-news

<<snip>>

Since you bring up "trusted" vs. "least-trusted"...

The survey performed by a Public Policy Polling report you linked to is dated...February 6, 2013.

The article you linked to is dated...February 8, 2013.

Poll: Fox Is the Least-Trusted Name in News

By Allison Brito, The National Memo

08 Febuary 13

That recent one is consistent with this present one:

Poll: Fox News /Limblah - Least Trusted News Sources

03-10-2015

You are in denial.

Severe withdrawal and denial as you are forced to hold the fort alone here for the moment.

Seriously flailing.

Is it impossible for you to simply say..."Oops. I screwed up."?

Talk about flailing!!!

The post is a hallucination.

The 2013 survey by the highly respected polling organization Public Policy Polling and the March 2015 survey by the Pew Research Center are completely consistent in respect of Fox Newz, and in many other respects. In short, the needle has moved against Fox Newz.

The fact goes so completely against the self-pleasing and long standing right wing narrative that the rightists must needs be deny it. That can't be done successfully or credibly, however.

Spinning a scheme of denial solves nothing and exposes the spinners as living in their own world.

The far out right deniers trying to say otherwise is the standard approach of failing to match reality with the extremist viewpoints and agenda.

It will take a while for the right to get a grip on changing realities, if it can or ever does. Good luck with that over and out there.

[up-country_sinclair]

The good news is that this massive rift between The United States and Israel will outlast the Obama and Netanyahu administrations.

Many members of the State Department and intelligence gathering organizations are disgusted by Israel's behavior over the last couple of years, and it will likely be impossible for the relationship to return to what it once was. I'm referring to the career, mid-level diplomats and analysts (not political appointees) who will be working within the US Federal government for 20 or 30 years before they retire. These people are not going to forget how Israel disrupted US foreign policy, how they publicly and purposefully embarrassed the Secretary of State, how they spied on US negotiations with Iran and then used the intelligence to sabotage the potential agreements with third parties.

http://www.wsj.com/article_email/israel-spied-on-iran-talks-1427164201-lMyQjAxMTA1MTI0MzIyNDM0Wj

Additionally, Israel has now become a partisan issue. This was unthinkable even 5 years ago.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-an-increasingly-partisan-issue-says-reform-head/

Furthermore, the younger generations in the US don't blindly support Israel like their parents and grandparents did. For those under 30, more blame Israel than Hamas for the violence.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2014/07/29/young-americans-take-a-dim-view-of-israels-actions/

Thanks to Netanyahu, Israel has become a policy/security issue, a partisan divide and generational gap for the first time in the US. And it's only going to get more divisive from here.

[Seastallion]

The good news is that this massive rift between The United States and Israel will outlast the Obama and Netanyahu administrations.

Many members of the State Department and intelligence gathering organizations are disgusted by Israel's behavior over the last couple of years, and it will likely be impossible for the relationship to return to what it once was. I'm referring to the career, mid-level diplomats and analysts (not political appointees) who will be working within the US Federal government for 20 or 30 years before they retire. These people are not going to forget how Israel disrupted US foreign policy, how they publicly and purposefully embarrassed the Secretary of State, how they spied on US negotiations with Iran and then used the intelligence to sabotage the potential agreements with third parties.

http://www.wsj.com/article_email/israel-spied-on-iran-talks-1427164201-lMyQjAxMTA1MTI0MzIyNDM0Wj

Additionally, Israel has now become a partisan issue. This was unthinkable even 5 years ago.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-an-increasingly-partisan-issue-says-reform-head/

Furthermore, the younger generations in the US don't blindly support Israel like their parents and grandparents did. For those under 30, more blame Israel than Hamas for the violence.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2014/07/29/young-americans-take-a-dim-view-of-israels-actions/

Thanks to Netanyahu, Israel has become a policy/security issue, a partisan divide and generational gap for the first time in the US. And it's only going to get more divisive from here.

Nice info.

Yes, and with regard to Publicis's post just prior, the right wing old fogies will need some time to absorb the realities. Hopefully a few of them are bright enough to face facts and dispense with Fox non-facts...but eventually, regardless of the old fogies and the rednecks, the truth will be acknowledged, and proper response to the truth, will happen.

[up-country_sinclair]

^

Well, I'm an old fogie and registered Republican (definitely not a redneck, though). But first and foremost I'm an American and that's where my patriotism and loyalties are firmly held. Too many on this forum who hold American passports are treasonous due to their primary allegiance to Israel.

[chuckd]

<<snip>>

The post is a hallucination.

<<snip>>

"The post is a hallucination."

This is true for nearly all your posts. What amazes me is the sheer audacity of your cover up of a mistake.

I admitted my mistake when I accidentally failed to omit a sentence in a quote. Too bad you don't have the same integrity.

[Publicus]

<<snip>>

The post is a hallucination.

<<snip>>

"The post is a hallucination."

This is true for nearly all your posts. What amazes me is the sheer audacity of your cover up of a mistake.

I admitted my mistake when I accidentally failed to omit a sentence in a quote. Too bad you don't have the same integrity.

I had posted previously I am aware of what I post to include quoted sources and links. I know the links I post to any post and why I post them, yet you presume to think and want to make the case otherwise. As I'd said however, you fail and you flail.

You have my post above in which I said, and I will say again, the 2013 survey findings by the highly reputable Public Policy Polling group, and the March 2015 findings of the highly reputable Pew Research Center, are consistent concerning Fox Newz.

The first poll's finding raised the question of a trend away from the past survey findings. The second poll released earlier this month indicates the first finding in 2013 was not an outlier poll, because the findings were repeated in this month's poll report. Another poll with the same or similar findings will strongly suggesting a trend has been identified as occurring in fact and in reality.

The wrongheaded political case building against my links does not change the facts on the ground or in my posts because all of the three are consistent. So face up to the findings, the data, the obvious. Fox Newz is the most distrusted news organization in the business.

[Publicus]

<<snip>>

The post is a hallucination.

<<snip>>

"The post is a hallucination."

This is true for nearly all your posts. What amazes me is the sheer audacity of your cover up of a mistake.

I admitted my mistake when I accidentally failed to omit a sentence in a quote. Too bad you don't have the same integrity.

I say again, Fox Newz is the most distrusted organization of its kind in the business.

The dense and dogmatic right needs to examine the integrity of Faux Newz and not posters they disagree with on the consistent and reputable survey findings occurring over a couple of years.

[ScarpoFongness4U]

Fox is the most trusted, it doesn't matter what the polls posted here says as the real numbers are in viewers and ad sales, not some biased pollster group

More facts:

There won't be a Jordan once the 90% Palestinian population turns on the King and his Palestinian wife, and demands he make his Palestinian son, the next King.

In addition: the King of Jordan was in Washington when his pilot was burned alive and did he even get anyone to acknowledge this from the obama administration?

Jordan is, the existing Palestinian state, and until Ararat was deported and his people ethnically cleansed both in Jordan and then Kuwait, he was intending to destabilize the country and take it over,

He was exiled to Tunis I believe but sooner stirred up trouble in Lebanon

10,000/ Palestinians cleaned by Jordan,

10,000 more had their hands cut off by Kuwait for raping and stealing under saddams occupation

You talk about ethnic cleansing in Israel as propagandists will, but without facts its just more whining hoping someone will "rise up" on the Jewish state

Here is one more fact;

Netanyahu had 18 seats in his last government

Now he has 30

The election was held, in Israel not in the editor lounge of the washington post/or new York times

Netanyahu is popular with Saudi Arabia Obama is not

Netanyahu is popular with Egypt

Obama is not

Netanyahu is popular in Lebanon

Obama doesn't even know where that is

And most of all

Netanyahu is popular with most military branches of the US, and Obama is not

[NeverSure]

^

Well, I'm an old fogie and registered Republican (definitely not a redneck, though). But first and foremost I'm an American and that's where my patriotism and loyalties are firmly held. Too many on this forum who hold American passports are treasonous due to their primary allegiance to Israel.

I see no less fervor from your side. I suppose though it's much less treasonous to be an Islamic terrorist firster though, eh?

I can't imagine any American on here putting Israel ahead of the US. Obama's a different story and it isn't treasonous to dislike or speak out against a POTUS.

If you're an American with an understanding of the First Amendment then you just allow people to disagree regarding Israel and Hamas. Yeah, Hamas runs the joint and that's a real problem.

Some of us are dumbfounded how people can keep supporting Islamic terrorists or even people who vote them into power. Hamas is not going to be allowed to form a state right up against Israel.

[Seastallion]

^

Well, I'm an old fogie and registered Republican (definitely not a redneck, though). But first and foremost I'm an American and that's where my patriotism and loyalties are firmly held. Too many on this forum who hold American passports are treasonous due to their primary allegiance to Israel.

As I hoped....some of you are bright.

[Jai Dee]

One offensive and inflammatory post has been removed from this thread.

[up-country_sinclair]

I can't imagine any American on here putting Israel ahead of the US. Obama's a different story and it isn't treasonous to dislike or speak out against a POTUS.

You can't imagine, eh?

Of course Israel Firsters will never openly admit that that primary allegiance is not to the US. But true beliefs and intent are made obvious by the content of posts.

[chuckd]

<<snip>>

Fox Newz is the most distrusted network of its kind in the United States.

Very few respectable public figures appear there for a serious purpose.

This fact and reality will be difficult in the extreme for the far out right to accept because the narrative for so long has been in the opposite direction. Read this however to see the data each way, both ways, trusted and distrusted.

Poll: Fox Is the Least-Trusted Name in News

By Allison Brito, The National Memo

ccording to a Public Policy Polling report released on Wednesday, Fox News is now the least-trusted name in news.

http://readersupportednews.org/news-section2/317-65/15927-poll-fox-is-the-least-trusted-name-in-news

Poll: Fox News /Limblah - Least Trusted News Sources

03-10-2015

Just behind Limbaugh is Fox News, which 37 percent of Americans say they

don't trust. But this is offset by the large number -- 44 percent -- who say they do trust Fox News. Paradoxically, Fox is simultaneously one of the least and most trusted news sources in America, reflecting the sharp differences in partisan attitudes about the network.

Overall, four of the top five least-trusted news outlets have a strong conservative lean: Limbaugh, Fox News, Glenn Beck and Sean Hannity. MSNBC rounds out the list. The most trusted news outlets, on the other hand, tend to be major TV networks: CNN, NBC News, ABC News, CBS News, with Fox at No. 5.

Pew Research Center just recently found Trust and Distrust comparisons as ranked accordingly,1st through 5th, among a couple of dozen news and public affairs organizations as per the links provided::

1) Limbaugh............12%....39%

2) Fox News............44%....37%

3) Glenn Beck Program......10%.....24%

4) MSNBC..........38%.....22%

5) Sean Hannity Show..........12%.....21%

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/10/21/rush-limbaugh-is-americas-least-trusted-n...

http://community.aarp.org/t5/Politics-Current-Events/Poll-Fox-News-Limblah-Least-Trusted-News-Sources/td-p/1544842

Read and weep.

I am quoting yet again your original post with the two polls. That is what you claimed.

Now you come back in an attempt to spin your mistake and make the following ridiculous assertion in post number 308:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

" You have my post above in which I said, and I will say again, the 2013 survey findings by the highly reputable Public Policy Polling group, and the March 2015 findings of the highly reputable Pew Research Center, are consistent concerning Fox Newz.

The first poll's finding raised the question of a trend away from the past survey findings. The second poll released earlier this month indicates the first finding in 2013 was not an outlier poll, because the findings were repeated in this month's poll report. Another poll with the same or similar findings will strongly suggesting a trend has been identified as occurring in fact and in reality."

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Prove to me and all concerned your original post indicated the first poll was taken in 2013 and you were allegedly using it for comparison.

Your original post was simply a mistake. You just didn't realize the first poll was two years old.

Now you are prevaricating...plain and simple.

Edited March 25, 2015 by chuckd

[Asiantravel]

By shifting the final decision regarding the Iran nuclear issue to the United Nations (because after all they are a world wide threat according to Netanyahu ) I think Obama will have achieved a diplomatic and political coup that will far eclipse Obama care or anything else during his Presidency.

He would have contributed to world peace instead of letting a handful of warmongering neocons in Washington being the sole arbiters.

[Publicus]

Prove to me and all concerned your original post indicated the first poll was taken in 2013 and you were allegedly using it for comparison.

Your original post was simply a mistake. You just didn't realize the first poll was two years old.

Now you are prevaricating...plain and simple

Wrong, wrong, wrong. Also imprudent and impudent in its personal nature.

I do not need to prove beans to you or to any other right wing denier who lives in his world of constant and bent extremes. I have stated to you more than once at this thread that I was and am aware of the news articles and the links to them that I posted above. I have discussed the fact, yet here it unnecessarily and excessively continues.

Certain posters have in the past wrongheadedly made the same claims on other occasions about other posts I'd made to other threads in respect of other topics, to include Fox Newz. I reiterated on each occasion then, and I state again now, that in every instance, I know what I posted at the time I'd made the posts and what is in the links and news sources I cited.

I have also made in my posts in this matter, as a central point, that the reactionary right wingers have for years boasted that Fox Newz is the most watched and most trusted public affairs organization of its kind, and that the extreme right has not only made the fact both a point of ideological pride, but the far right has also made it a point of identity in their unrelenting right wing extremist lives.

The links I have provided in this matter, and the articles at the links, are materials I read before I chose them to post. I know what I posted, what about the linked articles I chose to include in my post, and what about the articles I chose to exclude from the post. Indeed, anyone interested enuff in reading the linked articles can see completely and in full the articles at the links. So there is nothing about my links to attempt to hide, avoid, or to try to obscure.

I have in fact been aware for a long time at TVF that a certain obsessive compulsive poster will read each and every link I provide, to include examining every comma, phrase, clause, paragraph, quotation, number to include all data at the link, date, time, place, the persons named and/or quoted at the link and so on and so on. It is perhaps what could be called posting proctology.

The sometimes anal posts to the contrary are, well, to the contrary. The anal posts we are witnessing reflect the fact a number of the right extremists cannot accept the fact Fox Newz is simultaneously the most distrusted public affairs organization of its kind. Faux Newz is simultaneously the most trusted by the far right, the most distrusted by those who are not the hard core political right.

Some among the hard core right cannot accept the facts and the reality so they must compulsively try to attack and to seek to lash out at the local messenger. A certain right wing poster of older years is particularly bent out of shape about the new reality and, indeed, by all of the new realities of contemporary life.

I also get a certain satisfaction in making certain obsessive compulsive and bent posters wade through extended posts that are, in my approach to dem guyz, decidedly unpithy.

Study: Fox News Is Most Trusted And Least Trusted News Outlet

Jan. 20, 2011

http://www.adweek.com/tvnewser/study-fox-news-is-most-trusted-and-least-trusted-news-outlet/108627

Fox News: The TV source Americans trust the most AND the least

JANUARY 18, 2012

http://hotair.com/archives/2012/01/18/fox-news-the-tv-source-americans-trust-the-most-and-the-least/

Poll: Fox News most trusted (and least trusted) network in America

Published Feb. 6, 2013

http://www.poynter.org/news/mediawire/203289/poll-fox-news-most-trusted-and-least-trusted-network-in-america/

Poll: Fox News /Limblah - Least Trusted News Sources

‎03-10-2015

http://www.washingto...st-trusted-n...

http://community.aar...es/td-p/1544842

He who demands inane busy work of others can have the same assigned to him as well.

Edited March 25, 2015 by Publicus

[zydeco]

When did this become a thread about Fox News, which most of us in Thailand don't even have access to? Talk about off topic.

[chuckd]

@ Publicus:

You want pithy? That last post you made is the way you should have made the first one...dates and all.

Congratulations for finally figuring it out.

[Publicus]

@ Publicus:

You want pithy? That last post you made is the way you should have made the first one...dates and all.

Congratulations for finally figuring it out.

[Publicus]

We see changes happening already.

He says "occupation."

White House Chief of Staff Denis McDonough Says the Israeli Occupation 'Must End

WASHINGTON -- White House Chief of Staff Denis McDonough brought a strong message to an American pro-Israel conference on Monday, telling a crowd of 3,000 attendees that “an occupation that has lasted for almost 50 years must end, and the Palestinian people must have the right to live in and govern themselves in their own sovereign state.”

http://on.aol.com/video/denis-mcdonough-says-israeli-occupation-must-end-518725715

Edited March 25, 2015 by Publicus

[ScarpoFongness4U]

Today, the Obama white house released details and n Israel's nuclear weapons program, albeit a 30 year old document,

But, if Obama isn't careful, he will lose the only country in the region that still replies to his calls

Israel would be well advised to invite Vladimir Putin for a state visit

[NeverSure]

We see changes happening already.

He says "occupation."

White House Chief of Staff Denis McDonough Says the Israeli Occupation 'Must End

WASHINGTON -- White House Chief of Staff Denis McDonough brought a strong message to an American pro-Israel conference on Monday, telling a crowd of 3,000 attendees that “an occupation that has lasted for almost 50 years must end, and the Palestinian people must have the right to live in and govern themselves in their own sovereign state.”

http://on.aol.com/video/denis-mcdonough-says-israeli-occupation-must-end-518725715

The White House?

[JDGRUEN]

Many millions of Americans would love to have Nethanyahu as POTUS ...

[Scott]

A post about a news source has been removed. Further such off-topic posts will also be removed. Stay on topic.

[BKKBobby]

We see changes happening already.

He says "occupation."

White House Chief of Staff Denis McDonough Says the Israeli Occupation 'Must End

WASHINGTON -- White House Chief of Staff Denis McDonough brought a strong message to an American pro-Israel conference on Monday, telling a crowd of 3,000 attendees that “an occupation that has lasted for almost 50 years must end, and the Palestinian people must have the right to live in and govern themselves in their own sovereign state.”

http://on.aol.com/video/denis-mcdonough-says-israeli-occupation-must-end-518725715

The White House?

bilde.jpg

gv080314dapr20140804034516.jpg

Nice cartoon of presidents. Their legacies shown on the cartoon are witty sentences maybe written by their speechwriters. Kennedy is glorified because he was killed. Kennedy was a junkie and also not that competent president he is portrayed to be. Edited March 26, 2015 by BKKBobby

[RockyBeerbelly]

Today, the Obama white house released details and n Israel's nuclear weapons program, albeit a 30 year old document,

But, if Obama isn't careful, he will lose the only country in the region that still replies to his calls

Israel would be well advised to invite Vladimir Putin for a state visit

Only friend in the region? I don't think you mean Israel, because Israel is only a friend of Israel. Wrt other countries in the region, you really think that the American president should be friends with say Saudi, who are, as we are discussing this, supporting Al Qaida and ISIS in Yemen, by bombing the Shia Houthis. I for sure wouldn't want a friend like that if I was an US citizen....but fortunately I am not!

Wrt to Israel/Netanyahu and Vladimir Putin, it would be excellent if they get together (and I am sure all your US redneck Congress men will also be very happy with this). Let them become buddies! They have after all a lot of similarities; misuse of power, human rights abuse, starting wars, taking land that doesn't belong to them, use chemical weapons, etc.

Edited March 26, 2015 by RockyBeerbelly

[Publicus]

Many millions of Americans would love to have Nethanyahu as POTUS ...

A few months ago Republicans were running up and down the country chirping that Putin was a strong leader, that Putin earned and deserved respect....although not much was said about Putin's tanks in Ukraine or Putin's polonium dissidents.

Then just recently the 47 Republican senators sent a luv letter to another strong leader, the ayatollah. Now the Rush Limbaugh of Israel Bibi 'lookit my bomb drawing' Netanyahu is the next strongman leader for the USA if only.....

I guess it's a good thing for the US that Gen Pinochet the fascist military dictator died already.

The whackobird right is ready to go as far right as it gets.

[Seastallion]

Many millions of Americans would love to have Nethanyahu as POTUS ...

A few months ago Republicans were running up and down the country chirping that Putin was a strong leader, that Putin earned and deserved respect....although not much was said about Putin's tanks in Ukraine or Putin's polonium dissidents.

Then just recently the 47 Republican senators sent a luv letter to another strong leader, the ayatollah. Now the Rush Limbaugh of Israel Bibi 'lookit my bomb drawing' Netanyahu is the next strongman leader for the USA if only.....

I guess it's a good thing for the US that Gen Pinochet the fascist military dictator died already.

The whackobird right is ready to go as far right as it gets.

Some of them make Attila the Hun and Ghengis Khan look centrist.

[ggold]

It will be interesting to see how Obama plays this now that Amnesty International have come out and said that Hamas are guilty of war crimes! What will Obama say?

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-32053999

Rocket and mortar attacks by Palestinian militant groups during last summer's conflict in Gaza amounted to war crimes, Amnesty International says.

Militants displayed a "flagrant disregard" for the lives of civilians during the 50-day war, a report found.

Six civilians in Israel and 13 Palestinians are believed to have been killed as a result of such attacks.

His one sided attack on Netanyahu is going to backfire on him. Slowly Obama's options are closing on him. All he has left is trying to make a weak agreement with Iran not to build the bomb. Not having much luck with that, no matter how far he bends over to accommodate Iran.