Double Pricing - Fairprice-thailand.org

[GuestHouse]

Hey Doc,

(Sorry I had to use that form of address it just sounds Kool when I say it)

As soon as ever we get 10,000 visits to our website I'm going to write and ask the TAT exactly what their opinion is.

Pointless doing this now, we've only been upo and running 11 days, I think we need to get a good base of numbers behind us before we ask.

[chanchao]

Somebody wrote about a Burma maid for baht 2500,- and sure, no Thai girl will work for that anymore for one full month in Thailand....

And you farangs call this FAIR? This is EXPLOITATION. And no one is saying a bloody word!!!!!!!! Fantastic double farang standards!!!

I may have been the one with the 2500/month maid. Note that this does include food and boarding. (Tiny maid room in the back of the house with it's own bathroom ) Also note that I'm in Chiang Mai where things are cheaper than Bangers.. Considering she doesn't have to pay for a room (say 1500 baht / month) and food (say 50 baht/day, so another 1500 baht/month) she's actually getting paid MORE than minimum wage. The equivalent of around 5000 baht I'd say, if she had to pay for her own food and lodging for example in a factory job. Also the work being a maid is FAR more pleasant than working a construction site or factory!!

Even middle class Thai houses seem designed with 'maids' in mind.. The maid can get to the kitchen, but the kitchen door can lock on the living room side. So you can keep your maid in an area limited to inside the gate around the house, her room & bathroom and the kitchen.

Thais typically seem not to like their servants to use the same stuff/facilities as themselves. Which means different plates and pans for the maid to cook her own food. Almost like a Westerner may have a special pan & spoon to prepar the dog's food that then is never used to prepare people's food.

I'm a bit more 'mai pen rai' about this, she's welcome to use our rice cooker or whatever. Don't want to find bugs in my fridge tho.

[Yohan]

Somebody wrote about a Burma maid for baht 2500,- and sure, no Thai girl will work for that anymore for one full month in Thailand....

And you farangs call this FAIR? This is EXPLOITATION. And no one is saying a bloody word!!!!!!!! Fantastic double farang standards!!!

...................

Even middle class Thai houses seem designed with 'maids' in mind.. The maid can get to the kitchen, but the kitchen door can lock on the living room side.

....................

I'm a bit more 'mai pen rai' about this, she's welcome to use our rice cooker or whatever.

Chanchao,

I fully agree with all contents of your posting....I do not know, if you read my postings on this thread. This just to avoid misunderstanding.

The quote of my posting was cut out by Meemiathai, and appears quite different now to what I said.

This thread is called DUAL PRICING and I said, Thais have dual pricings not only against the rich, but also against the poor foreigners, by paying them much less than the Thais....especially in case of illegal labour.

I also said, that a Burma maid will accept a baht 2500,- offer, but I doubt, if a young good-looking Thai girl with some years in school will work for baht 2.500,- monthly.

I also said, that baht 2500,- is paid by the foreigner in Thailand, and told him, that the Thai will pay much less, maybe only baht 800,- or baht 1000,- and that the treatment by the Thais, both by men and by women, who are employing an illegal Burma maid, is often very rude. -

Foreign employers are well-known to be much more considerable and understanding towards a poor-off foreign maid or other domestic staff compared to the Thais.

With your posting, you just confirmed my observations over many years...

Thank you,

Johann

[chanchao]

Yup, sorry if my post somehow got directed at you; I agree of course with everything you wrote. I was explaining myself to the person who went off the exploitation-thing. (Meemiathai I believe).

[Yohan]

OK!OK! The Thais are as rich as the farangs. Or maybe should say richer than the farangs.  Should've been able to notice it earlier.  It is so obvious.

To Meemiathai:

NONSENSE! This is so easy to answer, by looking up the facts:

Some COUNTRIES are richer than Thailand:

Japan

EU

USA....

Some COUNTRIES are poorer than Thailand:

China

Vietnam

India......

This is not true and is not the same with the individual PERSON:

An Indian national might be richer than a Thai national, and a Thai national might be richer than a Japanese national.

Purchasing power is another important factor - it depends where you are living:

For usd 5000,- to run a household in Tokyo is equal to run the same household in Bangkok for baht 40.000,- (as the daily life in average is 5x more expensive in Japan compared to Thailand)

Only because of his nationality, to consider ANY foreigner as rich and to charge him more than the Thai is nonsense.

To call ANY Thai to be poor is nonsense.

To remain silent about the existance of many foreigners, who are poorer than the Thai, is ignorance.

1 - If you apply dual pricing according to their country of origin, you should consider those facts.... more expensive for the richer countries, and cheaper for the poorer countries compared to Thailand.

The result would be about like that:

USA baht 55,-

Japanese baht 50,-

German baht 40,-

Thai baht 10,-

Indian baht 3,-

Cambodia baht 1.5

Burma 60 satang

As this is impossible for administration, Thai are solving that in a way, which is underpricing the Thai - like 10 or 20 baht.....and overpricing ALL foreigners -like 200 baht or 300 baht.

This means ALWAYS overcharging any foreigner of any nationality....

This is wrong and not acceptable...

2 - If you apply dual pricing according to the individual person, you have first to check his income, and then consider the purchasing power....

This is made sometimes in court, when a person has to pay a fine.....or compensation in insurance cases.....

This is impossible to manage in daily life.....and can be considered only in very special cases like settlements in court.

The only correct and easy solution is

ABOLISH DUAL PRICING - away with this outdated system.....

Johann

[meemiathai]

I may have been the one with the 2500/month maid.  Note that this does include food and boarding.  (Tiny maid room in the back of the house with it's own bathroom )  Also note that I'm in Chiang Mai where things are cheaper than Bangers..  Considering she doesn't have to pay for a room (say 1500 baht / month) and food (say 50 baht/day, so another 1500 baht/month) she's actually getting paid MORE than minimum wage.  The equivalent of around 5000 baht I'd say, if she had to pay for her own food and lodging for example in a factory job.  Also the work being a maid is FAR more pleasant than working a construction site or factory!!

Even middle class Thai houses seem designed with 'maids' in mind..  The maid can get to the kitchen, but the kitchen door can lock on the living room side.  So you can keep your maid in an area limited to inside the gate around the house, her room & bathroom and the kitchen. 

Thais typically seem not to like their servants to use the same stuff/facilities as themselves.  Which means different plates and pans for the maid to cook her own food.  Almost like a Westerner may have a special pan & spoon to prepar the dog's food that then is never used to prepare people's food. 

I'm a bit more 'mai pen rai' about this, she's welcome to use our rice cooker or whatever.  Don't want to find bugs in my fridge tho.

Yes. Treat her nicely. And that is good enough for me. It is hard for others to tell just from looking at the surface of the matter. Only the maid can tell if she's been treated well. (But still, it's illegal...)

Although I do believe in the theory that not everything that is illegal is really that evil, but if one could be political correct enough to say dual pricing is unfair, one just can't consider doing something illegal is fair. Right?

In HK, lots of people from the Philipines, Thailand and Indonesia come to work as maids. And a lot of HK Chinese treat them like slaves. I truly despise these people, including some of my colleagues. I have no respect for people(whatever nationality) who do not treat others like human just because they think they are richer or of higher status. (Farang reu Thai gor meuan meuan gun)

[meemiathai]

Sorry GuestHouse, no offense.

I do not understand the thinking and motivation of foreigners who argue against foreign residents of Thailand making an effort to improve the way they are treated.

No, this is not the case. I fully support foreigners making efforts to improve their rights in Thailand. It is just that I have different views on this issue.

[meemiathai]

One more question. Last, I hope so!

I know a British citizen, she told me she went to university free of charge.(supported by the government. Not sure if it's true) For foreigners, they have to pay a large amount of money.

How do people see this one?

[diaw]

^This is not exploitation, in the least... Willing worker, willing employer... If it is not suitable, then employer will not offer the work... No-one is forcing the maid to work...

Diaw...

[GuestHouse]

Yes, she is correct. The British Government provide free tuition in universities but the rules do not take any account of your race:

In short form they are as follows:

A Foreigner who goes to the UK to study must pay his/her own tuition fees.

A foreigner who is legally living in the UK for a prescribed period (from memory two years) in the period immediately before applying to a University is entitled to and will receive free tuition.

A British Citizen living in Britain for more than two years in the period imediately prior to applying to a univerity is entitled to and will free tuition fees.

A British Citizen who is living abroad at the time of applying to a university in the UK (no matter how long they have been abroad) will have to pay his/her tuition fees exactly the same as if they were a foreign student.

I know this because I was abroad when I applied to go to University and I was made to pay my own fees at the exact same rate as a foreign student.

Payment of tuition fees by the government is dependent upon gaining access to the University and the law provides for equal treatment of all applicants regardless of race, nationalilty, gender, religion, physical ability or political beliefs.

[12call]

Do Thai's pay the Baht500 service charge when departing Samui Airport?

[meemiathai]

Do Thai's pay the Baht500 service charge when departing Samui Airport?

Do you mean the Airport tax?

My Thai wife has to.

[Opl]

^This is not exploitation, in the least... Willing worker, willing employer... If it is not suitable, then employer will not offer the work... No-one is forcing the maid to work...

100 TB / day = no future. This is OK for an " au pair" retribution.

How much is an hour thai massage ?

[meemiathai]

GuestHouse, feel tempted to argue again.

What makes criterias set by the British fairer than the ones set by the Thais.

the law provides for equal treatment of all applicants regardless of race, nationalilty, gender, religion, physical ability or political beliefs.

This sentence certainly looks beautiful. But the fact is, there is a criteria.

Be it nationality, gender, religion or whatsoever, it is based on something.

BTW, what makes a foreigner eligible to live legally in the UK for 2 years?

I would like to hate the fact that my Thai wife has to pay over 50 pounds(3500 baht) entry fee to the UK whilst some people holding different passports(meaning different race?) pay nothing and walk straight in! ("3500 bahts is more than a month of my bloody salary!" says the Willing worker (the Burmese maid).)

[meemiathai]

^This is not exploitation, in the least... Willing worker, willing employer... If it is not suitable, then employer will not offer the work... No-one is forcing the maid to work...

Diaw...

We shall have to study the word "Willing".

I'm sure the word "Willing" for the worker has a different meaning with the word "Willing" for the employer. How funny! Words can look the same but have different meanings!

[Yohan]

I would like to hate the fact that my Thai wife has to pay over 50 pounds(3500 baht) entry fee to the UK whilst some people holding different passports(meaning different race?) pay nothing and walk straight in!

Visa agreements are made out of bilateral negotiations between the concerned countries. (UK and generally EU on one side, and Thailand on the other side)

Simply said, you do this to me, and I do this to you....

This includes visa fees, if any....

Would Thailand be more open to Europe, then Europe would be more open to Thailand regarding visa-regulations, labour permits, immigration and granting citizenship...

It has nothing to do with the race of an individual person. In my own country, Austria (Europe) over 10 percent of the population are immigrants of different race, culture, religion, language....

They all have the same nationality (Austria), are accepted as EU citizens, and of course are holding EU valid passport and rights....

Johann

[Yohan]

^This is not exploitation, in the least... Willing worker, willing employer... If it is not suitable, then employer will not offer the work... No-one is forcing the maid to work...

100 TB / day = no future. This is OK for an " au pair" retribution.

How much is an hour thai massage ?

Hi, OPL

On this forum there is just a big discussion about double standard in pricing, and now also double standards in payment.

Not every foreigner is rich, not every Thai is poor....and not every Thai is rich, and not every foreigner is poor....and some foreigners are rich, and some foreigners are poor...... and so on.....

Please, take a look to the thread about *hiring a non-Thai maid*

and you will see, that 100 baht a day, and free room and food is not so bad at all in this case - living in Northern Thailand....

I compared that with the daughter of our friend, who is a young certified nurse, Thai national, living near Bangkok earning baht 6.800,- as a start....

I do not think, that the offer of baht 2500,- monthly for a Burma maid in Northern Thailand made by a foreigner and including food and room, is a bad offer...

Thai will pay her much less......

On the other side, young qualified Thai staff also has very low salary and hard work.....So who is discriminating whom? Not so easy to find a reply....

Read my posting please there, your comments are very much appreciated....

Best regards, Johann

[chanchao]

> 100 TB / day = no future. This is OK for an " au pair" retribution.

> How much is an hour thai massage ?

Or: How much does the massage girl get paid? ;-)

I asked this once at one of the Chiang Mai traditional massage shops, and I believe she received 20 baht per hour, as in actual hours worked, not hours sitting at the shop waiting for customers to come in! She probably got to live in the place too, but I don't think food was included in the deal.. or maybe it was, I don't know.

5 customers on a very good day (and evening!) : 100 baht.

Cheers,

Chanchao

[GuestHouse]

Meemmia Thai,

The rules that gve eligibilty of foreigners to live legally in the UK are the same rules as gave my father the right to live in the UK, my mother the right to live in the UK and my wife the right to live in the UK.

They were all born overseas and all from different countries, they all enjoy equal treatment under the law as a UK citizen while they are in the UK, non of them are British.

Moreover, all foreigners living legally in the UK have the right to apply for permanent residence and thereafter citizenship (if they choose to do so).

Children born in the UK are given inaliable British Citizenship (Thailand denies citizenship to ethinic minorities who's tribes have been living in Thailand for hundrend of years)

Foreigners legally living in the UK are allowed to vote in local elections, own a house or land and they are not forced to adopt an Anglacised name.

If they are denied access to any public facility or service on the grounds of their race, religion, political beliefs or physical ability they have the right to press charges and peope who do this almost always win.

If you know of a case of institutional racism in the UK, please tell me, I'll be quite happy to write t o my Member of Parliament and ask for an explanation and demand action on your behalf. You may need to provide some evidence, but I trust that would not be too difficult for you.

I'd wager Thais have more rights when they re legally in the UK, than they do when in their own country.

[meemiathai]

I do not think, that the offer of baht 2500,- monthly for a Burma maid in Northern Thailand made by a foreigner and including food and room, is a bad offer...

Thai will pay her much less......

a Burma maid? So, for what maid would you think baht 2500 is a bad offer....?

a Chinese one? Japanese? Must be a European one!

[Yohan]

How much does the massage girl get paid?

She probably got to live in the place too, but I don't think food was included in the deal.. or maybe it was, I don't know.

5 customers on a very good day (and evening!) : 100 baht.

The owner of a convenience store next to the hotel in Bangkok, where I always stay, pays for the staff working there per hour 25 baht, and for the staff, who is working during late hours in night, 35 baht.

I know this, because some hotel staff, like the room maid, and some kitchen staff, is going there for part time to work....this is eastern side of Bangkok, near Srinakarin Rd. (but still located in Bangkok)

Just to compare - it is a very big difference in Thailand, if you have just an occasional job, or if this is really a permanent job in a good company...

This does not mean however, that ALL Thai people are poor.... around 15 percent have a high income....and enjoy a good life.... house, garden, golf, car, private schools, travel, best medical treatment and so on....

In Thailand you can find both....from extreme rich to extreme poor.....

Johann

[Yohan]

I do not think, that the offer of baht 2500,- monthly for a Burma maid in Northern Thailand made by a foreigner and including food and room, is a bad offer...

Thai will pay her much less......

a Burma maid? So, for what maid would you think baht 2500 is a bad offer....?

a Chinese one? Japanese? Must be a European one!

To answer your questions:

1- Compared to the salary of a young certified Thai nurse, this offer to an (illegal) maid from Burma made by a foreigner is fairly acceptable....not bad at all, I would say.

2- Compared to the income for the same work in their own country it makes sense for her to cross the nearby border and to try to work in Thailand, even illegal.....

3- All Europe is a wider area, than what you maybe consider....seems you see only the EU - but EU is not all Europe..... some countries in Europe too, are very bad off economically, some of them are much worse than Thailand.

4- A Thai girl is legal in Thailand and not illegal like this Burma maid, so she has the opportunity as Thai native speaker with some years in school, not being lazy, and willing to try it out, to earn more....and so I think, a clever young Thai girl will not accept such kind of work for baht 2500,-

Johann

[possom]

cant understand what all the fuss is about !!!!, if you live in the REAL THAILAND , you will pay exactly the same as thais for food housing and other essentials . if you go to the grand palace or national parks , just accept that you are NOT thai and 200 baht is the price of a pint and a half of beer in england . stop bleeting about things , if you dont like things where you are move to a thai neighbourhood ,( where i live myself and NEVER get overcharged for ANYTHING ) and if you dont like that, the question has to be asked , WHY DO YOU LIVE IN LOS ?????

[meemiathai]

GuestHouse,

I understand that there are lots of laws in the West to protect human rights, which is a very nice thing that I appreciate very much. It is also a way of showing civilization, I think. But Thailand is a different country which is in some way less advanced(whatever way one can say, I hope you understand what I mean). We cannot always compare it between other countries in a manner like we are doing mathematical equations.

I am not Thai and do not live in Thailand, only been there 5,6 times (each 2 weeks). So far, always good experiences. Thailand has given me a lot. But I am also well aware of that Thailand is not always a heaven. Although I have yet to experience them, I do believe that there are lots of unfairness and bad things as well. Corruption, discrimination, rich or powerful people getting away from jurisdiciton....etc I hate these as much.

Perhaps I am not in the best position to comment on the dual-pricing system here in Thailand coz I do not live here. I could be judging something wrongly without knowing it. It doesn't really matter if that's the case, I have expressed myself and that's enough. I tried to say something actually because I hope that farangs/thais could understand each other better and live together more harmoniously. Also take this as an opportunity to make known the fact that there are also lots of Asians being treated unfairly by people from the West without being noticed.

Anyway, have a nice day.

"chun gaeo!"

[meemiathai]

Yohan,

After some conversations, I feel that you have the potential of being a politician.

Good day!

[Yohan]

cant understand what all the fuss is about !!!!, if you live in the REAL THAILAND , you will pay exactly the same as thais for food housing and other essentials . if you go to the grand palace or national parks , just accept that you are NOT thai and 200 baht is the price of a pint and a half of beer in england . stop bleeting about things , if you dont like things where you are move to a thai neighbourhood ,( where i live myself and NEVER get overcharged for ANYTHING )  and if you dont like that, the question has to be asked , WHY DO YOU LIVE IN LOS ?????

QUOTE (meemiathai @ Thu 2004-04-08, 15:50:08)

I would like to hate the fact that my Thai wife has to pay over 50 pounds(3500 baht) entry fee to the UK whilst some people holding different passports(meaning different race?) pay nothing and walk straight in!

Same question.....why are you going there?

The difference of the price is not relevant.....There might be a difference for example for a full ticket, a ticket for children, a ticket for a couple, a ticket for an old person, a ticket for free admission for a blind or otherwise handicapped person.

This is OK!

However to make 2 different prices, for the reason that 1 person is a foreigner, and the other person is an ethic Thai, this is not acceptable.

It is not only the entrance fee, it is getting more and more custom to do that in restaurants, hotels, shops..... because it is the foreigner....

What is next? to pay a special rate for the water, because the owner of that condominium is a foreigner, or to charge a different rate for gasoline, because the driver and owner of this car is a foreigner?

Dual pricing is a remain out of socialist ideas.... it is causing mistrust....good to read, that one poster (Axel) mentioned, that communist Vietnam abolished dual pricing of all domestic flights....a good step forward!

Foreigners living in Thailand know how to avoid dual pricing, so your question: WHY DO YOU LIVE IN LOS ? is wrong....

It is the occasional visitor, the tourist, who pays that, and often, he does not even know it, as there is no information near the ticket counter about it, except a small Thai board, where even the numbers are written in Thai.....

or there are 2 different menus.....or no actual room-rate listing...

So how can the foreigner, who cannot read Thai and who is visiting Thailand as a tourist, how can he even know about it?

Dual pricing should be abolished, it is outdated....this time is over.....

Personally I am not affected, I am visiting Thailand since 30 years, I know, how to avoid it, and Thailand has many good points, but there are also some bad spots, and one out of it is this dual pricing....

It is not wrong to write about it and to complain about it.

Johann

[SeaVisionBurma]

I do not think, that the offer of baht 2500,- monthly for a Burma maid in Northern Thailand made by a foreigner and including food and room, is a bad offer...

Thai will pay her much less......

a Burma maid? So, for what maid would you think baht 2500 is a bad offer....?

a Chinese one? Japanese? Must be a European one!

Yohan is right - I also think that 2500 baht, monthly, for a Burmese maid in Thailand is not a bad offer either.

MMT, your reference comparing a Burmese maid's salary in Thailand, to that of a Chinese, Japanese, or European maid's salary is complete nonsense and is akin to comparing the colour of oranges to the amount of dust on the moon.

Here in Burma, my Karen maid can earn (the equivalent of) around 1,000 baht a month if she's lucky, I pay her more because the company can afford it, and in general all of our workers are getting paid several times more than would be able to earn in their villages normally.

Therefore, it stands to reason that for a Burmese girl to go to Thailand and make 2.5 times her salary, with food and board provided, it would not be a bad offer in anyone's language.

Why the f*&% would a Japanese maid work in Northern Thailand illegally for something which would potentially be a fraction of their earning power back in their own country?

Your comparison defies logic!

[meemiathai]

SVB,

Thanks for the input!

Thanks for bringing out the point that you are judging the amount to offer a maid based on the nationality of the person! IS THAT TRUE? IS THE WORD "BURMA" THE KEY WORD OF THE SENTENCE?

Cheers!

[meemiathai]

Why the f*&% would a Japanese maid work in Northern Thailand illegally for something which would potentially be a fraction of their earning power back in their own country?

Your comparison defies logic!

I am sorry! I didn't realize it! I thought as informed by a member here that there are Japanese that POOR!

[meemiathai]

Funny! So many times I've been lured back after deciding to walk away!

The difference of the price is not relevant.....There might be a difference for example for a full ticket, a ticket for children, a ticket for a couple, a ticket for an old person, a ticket for free admission for a blind or otherwise handicapped person.

This is OK!

However to make 2 different prices, for the reason that 1 person is a foreigner, and the other person is an ethic Thai, this is not acceptable.

Isn't that a bit dictatorial to say "This is OK!" and "That is not!" just because you think so? Especially applying it in someone else's country. Where on earth does it say so?