Russell Crowe cries foul over Aussie citizenship

[RickBradford]

Has anybody told him that in order to get his Aussie citizenship he would need to get half of his brain surgically removed? Stick with the Kiwi passport mate!

Remember what Piggy Muldoon said about Kiwi emigration to Australia?

"It raises the average IQ of both nations"

Mind you, having visited the back bar of the Bondi Hotel during a Jimmy Thunder bout, I consider the truth of that to be on shaky ground...

EDIT: My favourite Jimmy Thunder video:

Edited March 25, 2015 by RickBradford

[Seastallion]

The Russel Crowe factor aside, this story highlights some seriously disparities between how Aus and NZ treat each others citizens.

Despite our long shared history, our 40 year old common economic partnererhip and so called ANZAC traditions, in 2001 Australia enshrined some pretty draconian laws towards NZ citizens. The could live and work in OZ, but it stripped away long established paths to Permament Residency and citizenship. Long established law abiding tax paying kiwi's were not granted access to social services. Over time this has left many in a situation where they are unable to access assistance despite living and working in Australia for decades. Australia will gladly take Kiwi tax dollars, but do nothing in return.

Despite Australia/s petulance, NZ still grants Australian citizens access to PR, citizenship and social security once established in NZ in a straight forward manner, in a way which is not offered when they come to Australia.

It is a highly unfair state of play, where Australia continues to not reciprocate the level of treatment Australians are granted in New Zealand.

Just might be because of the 5 to 1 imbalance in immigration between Australia and NZ

What's that got to do with the price of fush?

You pay your taxes, often for years, only to be told when you need a hand that you aren't eligible.

Even if your precious ratio did matter, proportionally Nz takes a similar amount as a percentage of population going the other way. They aren't complaining or discriminating against Aussies there...

"fush"

[Linky]

As an Aussie I'd prefer the kiwis to keep him, but the kiwis I know don't want him either.

[Jonmarleesco]

Why would a Kiwi want to become an Aussie, anyway?

[rotary]

Maybe if he took his gum boots off and promised to not be a sheep herder...............

[Torrens54]

The Russel Crowe factor aside, this story highlights some seriously disparities between how Aus and NZ treat each others citizens.

Despite our long shared history, our 40 year old common economic partnererhip and so called ANZAC traditions, in 2001 Australia enshrined some pretty draconian laws towards NZ citizens. The could live and work in OZ, but it stripped away long established paths to Permament Residency and citizenship. Long established law abiding tax paying kiwi's were not granted access to social services. Over time this has left many in a situation where they are unable to access assistance despite living and working in Australia for decades. Australia will gladly take Kiwi tax dollars, but do nothing in return.

Despite Australia/s petulance, NZ still grants Australian citizens access to PR, citizenship and social security once established in NZ in a straight forward manner, in a way which is not offered when they come to Australia.

It is a highly unfair state of play, where Australia continues to not reciprocate the level of treatment Australians are granted in New Zealand.

Now just hang on a minute. Australia allows Thais who arrive as a Spouse to get Medicare and a whole bunch of other things, after two years they get PR Status and if they want, after five years they can apply for Citizenship. THAILAND offers NOTHING to Australians who arrive here as the spouse of a Thai.

Now to the point about Australia and its treatment of Kiwis. Well, what can one say? they come from New Zealand!

[Tassie Norm]

The fundamental question ought to be put to Mr Crowe. Namely, why does he want citizenship? What is his reason/motive? Don't second guess. In his high profile position he ought to have given - publicly - his reason. After all he has gone public with the Oz government decision. Incidentally, stuff the vitriol some folk out there turf around. In my experience, including military, Aussies and Kiwis get on fine. Mr Crowe will get over it.

[samran]

The Russel Crowe factor aside, this story highlights some seriously disparities between how Aus and NZ treat each others citizens.

Despite our long shared history, our 40 year old common economic partnererhip and so called ANZAC traditions, in 2001 Australia enshrined some pretty draconian laws towards NZ citizens. The could live and work in OZ, but it stripped away long established paths to Permament Residency and citizenship. Long established law abiding tax paying kiwi's were not granted access to social services. Over time this has left many in a situation where they are unable to access assistance despite living and working in Australia for decades. Australia will gladly take Kiwi tax dollars, but do nothing in return.

Despite Australia/s petulance, NZ still grants Australian citizens access to PR, citizenship and social security once established in NZ in a straight forward manner, in a way which is not offered when they come to Australia.

It is a highly unfair state of play, where Australia continues to not reciprocate the level of treatment Australians are granted in New Zealand.

Now just hang on a minute. Australia allows Thais who arrive as a Spouse to get Medicare and a whole bunch of other things, after two years they get PR Status and if they want, after five years they can apply for Citizenship. THAILAND offers NOTHING to Australians who arrive here as the spouse of a Thai.

Now to the point about Australia and its treatment of Kiwis. Well, what can one say? they come from New Zealand!

Australia and Thailand don't have what is called the closed economic relationship framework that is supposed to provide for seamless cross border movement for trade and peoples which in theory should mean australians and New Zealanders aren't discriminated against in each others countries.

Australia is wealching on its side of the deal.

[Oceanbat]

The Russel Crowe factor aside, this story highlights some seriously disparities between how Aus and NZ treat each others citizens.

Despite our long shared history, our 40 year old common economic partnererhip and so called ANZAC traditions, in 2001 Australia enshrined some pretty draconian laws towards NZ citizens. The could live and work in OZ, but it stripped away long established paths to Permament Residency and citizenship. Long established law abiding tax paying kiwi's were not granted access to social services. Over time this has left many in a situation where they are unable to access assistance despite living and working in Australia for decades. Australia will gladly take Kiwi tax dollars, but do nothing in return.

Despite Australia/s petulance, NZ still grants Australian citizens access to PR, citizenship and social security once established in NZ in a straight forward manner, in a way which is not offered when they come to Australia.

It is a highly unfair state of play, where Australia continues to not reciprocate the level of treatment Australians are granted in New Zealand.

but it stripped away long established paths to Permament Residency and citizenship.

OK but why did they do it ? just curious ?

They cynic in me says political opportunism. If you aren't a PR or citizen, your access to social services is severely curtailed.

The kiwi 'dole bludger' (read pacific islander with NZ citizenship) stereotype was somethng to be exploited by Howard and his conservative merry men in the early 2000's. The other was a back door path to Australian citizenship for migrants who went to NZ first then to OZ. I think there was the claim that the NZ wasn't paying its 'fair share' in SS payments. I seem to recall this was the same time the Australian government dudded British pensioners.

As usual the facts are the opposite. NZ's as a group have a lower unemployment rate than Australians. In terms of NZ citizenship, the government there increase the wait time from 2 years to 5 years, so NZ was hardly a backdoor way into Australia any more. Similarly, in relative terms, NZ hosts more Australians as a percentage of population than the other way around, so Australia really screwed kiwi's on the equity front. NZ's a group certainly contribute more to the system than they take out.

It was easy political point scoring, at the expense of our closest neigbour and our closest ally.

Its been a decade an a half since the agreement and only now the downside is becoming apparent.

Families long established in OZ, kids who moved there when young, totally excluded from access to social services. Not just talking about the dole here, I'm talking about access to womens shelters in the case of abusive spouses, university loan scheme, emergency assistance following natural disasters, national disability insurance scheme etc. People who have litterally grown up in Australia since the law changes find out that they aren't full members of the community, and people who have lived and worked for decades and find themselves in a bit of trouble later in life being told to 'go home' to get help.

It stinks.

I think you've summed it up nicely.

The kiwi dole bludger thing (indeed mostly Maori and Pacific Islanders) was, I think a real ....not problem, but situation. There were more Kiwis bludging in Oz than Ozzies bludging in NZ.

But the Oz government went overboard, for political reasons.

My daughter is an Australian citizen with passport. She lived with me in NZ and had a baby. She emigrated to Oz last year with her 3 year old NZ-born baby. When he had an accident, Mum could not get treatment for her son without being billed. The child did not qualify for state assistance, even though his mother was a full blown (not naturalised) citizen.

Then there's the Kiwi couple who had a baby in Oz. Lived there for years, and even though the child was born in Oz, because they registered the child as a NZ citizen, he did not qualify for state assistance when he got sick. The parents had been paying taxes for years.

It does stink.

Sounds like Thailand no?

OB

[uptheos]

Russ you're Kiwi.......get over it.

[Old Croc]

Crowe can apply for Permanent Residence the same way as any other nationality from around the world. Then after a residential qualifying period he can apply for citizenship.

Things changed for NZers on 26 Feb 2001. All who were in Australia on that date were eligible to apply for citizenship. Arrivals after that date are on a temporary visa, which does allow them to work and stay permanently, but they cannot access social services which are for citizens and PRs only. Many nationalities work in Australia on Temporary visas, pay tax and are not eligible for these services.

NZ created difficulties with the Trans Tasman Agreement by, at one stage, opening their borders to all Pacific Island nations which resulted in a flood of migrants, many of whom had the final plan of moving to Australia after getting NZ citizenship. At the time New Zealand had concerns about a declining population largely created by a disproportionate amount of people flowing into Australia.

At the time, the dole in Australia was substantially more than that paid in NZ and large numbers of young slackers came over the ditch to house share in places like Bondi to live the high life on money provided by workers like myself. A six month qualifying period for the dole was introduced to slow these ripoffs. A move I welcomed.

I don't see why we should continue to disproportionately provide for these foreigners despite an old outdated agreement,

The NZ economy is probably stronger than that of Australia now, and there is a good chance we will have to play the bastards in the World Cup next week so I say give them nothing!

[samran]

Crowe can apply for Permanent Residence the same way as any other nationality from around the world. Then after a residential qualifying period he can apply for citizenship.

Things changed for NZers on 26 Feb 2001. All who were in Australia on that date were eligible to apply for citizenship. Arrivals after that date are on a temporary visa, which does allow them to work and stay permanently, but they cannot access social services which are for citizens and PRs only. Many nationalities work in Australia on Temporary visas, pay tax and are not eligible for these services.

NZ created difficulties with the Trans Tasman Agreement by, at one stage, opening their borders to all Pacific Island nations which resulted in a flood of migrants, many of whom had the final plan of moving to Australia after getting NZ citizenship. At the time New Zealand had concerns about a declining population largely created by a disproportionate amount of people flowing into Australia.

At the time, the dole in Australia was substantially more than that paid in NZ and large numbers of young slackers came over the ditch to house share in places like Bondi to live the high life on money provided by workers like myself. A six month qualifying period for the dole was introduced to slow these ripoffs. A move I welcomed.

I don't see why we should continue to disproportionately provide for these foreigners despite an old outdated agreement,

The NZ economy is probably stronger than that of Australia now, and there is a good chance we will have to play the bastards in the World Cup next week so I say give them nothing!

The changes have been cutting the nose to spite the face. Sure, stop the dole bludgers but it is a bit rich saying you can live and work freely in Australia, we will take your taxes for years but you have no rights if anything goes wrong.

All agreements should evolve, and I agree with you there, but when you talk about going backwards to a more protectionist stance I say that is the wrong direction.

[Bwanatickey]

So he's been put at the back of the que for Australian citizenship, behind the front runners, or folks with no papers and a boat landing in Australian waters.

[Publicus]

The Russel Crowe factor aside, this story highlights some seriously disparities between how Aus and NZ treat each others citizens.

Despite our long shared history, our 40 year old common economic partnererhip and so called ANZAC traditions, in 2001 Australia enshrined some pretty draconian laws towards NZ citizens. The could live and work in OZ, but it stripped away long established paths to Permament Residency and citizenship. Long established law abiding tax paying kiwi's were not granted access to social services. Over time this has left many in a situation where they are unable to access assistance despite living and working in Australia for decades. Australia will gladly take Kiwi tax dollars, but do nothing in return.

Despite Australia/s petulance, NZ still grants Australian citizens access to PR, citizenship and social security once established in NZ in a straight forward manner, in a way which is not offered when they come to Australia.

It is a highly unfair state of play, where Australia continues to not reciprocate the level of treatment Australians are granted in New Zealand.

Just might be because of the 5 to 1 imbalance in immigration between Australia and NZ

Interesting point cause as some might remember it wuz Sir Robert Muldoon while he was PM of NZ who, asked about NZ migration to Aus, said he favored it because it increased the IQ of both countries.

That's what the then PM of NZ said.....

I only know my experience in Thailand....

And that when he accepted his Academy Award, Crow bellowed, "God Bless America, and Thank God for Australia," as some may recall. So, not being otherwise much interested in him, I'd taken it from that and then he wuz from OZ. Live 'n learn I guess.

This all sounds like a bummer for 'im, but as one among many it would seem from the posts.

[simple1]

<snip>

My daughter is an Australian citizen with passport. She lived with me in NZ and had a baby. She emigrated to Oz last year with her 3 year old NZ-born baby. When he had an accident, Mum could not get treatment for her son without being billed. The child did not qualify for state assistance, even though his mother was a full blown (not naturalised) citizen.

Then there's the Kiwi couple who had a baby in Oz. Lived there for years, and even though the child was born in Oz, because they registered the child as a NZ citizen, he did not qualify for state assistance when he got sick. The parents had been paying taxes for years.

It does stink.

That is odd as NZ citizens living in Oz can apply for Medicare cover. In addition NZ citizens are covered by a reciprocal agreement for essential medical services at a public hospital in Oz.

http://www.humanservices.gov.au/customer/enablers/medicare/medicare-card/medicare-enrolment-for-new-zealand-citizens

The URL below confirms the Social Services benefits that NZ nationals can obtain if living in Oz.

https://www.dss.gov.au/about-the-department/international/international-social-security-agreements/current-international-social-security-agreements/australia-and-new-zealand-frequently-asked-questions

Personally I entered Oz after moving to NZ from London with my then NZ partner; lived there for two years back in the 1980s. Have to say upon arrival in NZ was a major cultural adjustment for the first year.

[saroq]

The Russel Crowe factor aside, this story highlights some seriously disparities between how Aus and NZ treat each others citizens.

Despite our long shared history, our 40 year old common economic partnererhip and so called ANZAC traditions, in 2001 Australia enshrined some pretty draconian laws towards NZ citizens. The could live and work in OZ, but it stripped away long established paths to Permament Residency and citizenship. Long established law abiding tax paying kiwi's were not granted access to social services. Over time this has left many in a situation where they are unable to access assistance despite living and working in Australia for decades. Australia will gladly take Kiwi tax dollars, but do nothing in return.

Despite Australia/s petulance, NZ still grants Australian citizens access to PR, citizenship and social security once established in NZ in a straight forward manner, in a way which is not offered when they come to Australia.

It is a highly unfair state of play, where Australia continues to not reciprocate the level of treatment Australians are granted in New Zealand.

I agree with most of what you've said but "Australia will gladly take Kiwi tax dollars, but do nothing in return" omits the fact that Kiwis know the conditions under which they come to Australia and take jobs that aren't available to them in New Zealand. That does not mean that those conditions are fair. The reason for them stems back to the 1970s and 80s when Australians were concerned about the number of Kiwis coming to Australia and "taking Aussie jobs and living off the dole." Many Australians are unaware that these punitive conditions apply to New Zealand citizens and there would be support for changing them but currently there is no political support for it.

[empireboy]

Ripped any more phones off the wall and thrown them at someone becasue you're too out-of-control ignorant to find the appropriate words to communicate them with Russell?

[tharae]

The Russel Crowe factor aside, this story highlights some seriously disparities between how Aus and NZ treat each others citizens.

Despite our long shared history, our 40 year old common economic partnererhip and so called ANZAC traditions, in 2001 Australia enshrined some pretty draconian laws towards NZ citizens. The could live and work in OZ, but it stripped away long established paths to Permament Residency and citizenship. Long established law abiding tax paying kiwi's were not granted access to social services. Over time this has left many in a situation where they are unable to access assistance despite living and working in Australia for decades. Australia will gladly take Kiwi tax dollars, but do nothing in return.

Despite Australia/s petulance, NZ still grants Australian citizens access to PR, citizenship and social security once established in NZ in a straight forward manner, in a way which is not offered when they come to Australia.

It is a highly unfair state of play, where Australia continues to not reciprocate the level of treatment Australians are granted in New Zealand.

If you're looking for reasons why, here is one of them.

https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/wa/a/26800980/bikie-kicked-out-after-18-years/

[Linky]

The Russel Crowe factor aside, this story highlights some seriously disparities between how Aus and NZ treat each others citizens.

Despite our long shared history, our 40 year old common economic partnererhip and so called ANZAC traditions, in 2001 Australia enshrined some pretty draconian laws towards NZ citizens. The could live and work in OZ, but it stripped away long established paths to Permament Residency and citizenship. Long established law abiding tax paying kiwi's were not granted access to social services. Over time this has left many in a situation where they are unable to access assistance despite living and working in Australia for decades. Australia will gladly take Kiwi tax dollars, but do nothing in return.

Despite Australia/s petulance, NZ still grants Australian citizens access to PR, citizenship and social security once established in NZ in a straight forward manner, in a way which is not offered when they come to Australia.

It is a highly unfair state of play, where Australia continues to not reciprocate the level of treatment Australians are granted in New Zealand.

Just might be because of the 5 to 1 imbalance in immigration between Australia and NZ

Interesting point cause as some might remember it wuz Sir Robert Muldoon while he was PM of NZ who, asked about NZ migration to Aus, said he favored it because it increased the IQ of both countries.

That's what the then PM of NZ said.....

I only know my experience in Thailand....

And that when he accepted his Academy Award, Crow bellowed, "God Bless America, and Thank God for Australia," as some may recall. So, not being otherwise much interested in him, I'd taken it from that and then he wuz from OZ. Live 'n learn I guess.

This all sounds like a bummer for 'im, but as one among many it would seem from the posts.

I think you will find the speech he made included, God defend New Zealand, God bless America and thank God for Australia. Oh how some easily forget about NZ.

[tharae]

The Russel Crowe factor aside, this story highlights some seriously disparities between how Aus and NZ treat each others citizens.

Despite our long shared history, our 40 year old common economic partnererhip and so called ANZAC traditions, in 2001 Australia enshrined some pretty draconian laws towards NZ citizens. The could live and work in OZ, but it stripped away long established paths to Permament Residency and citizenship. Long established law abiding tax paying kiwi's were not granted access to social services. Over time this has left many in a situation where they are unable to access assistance despite living and working in Australia for decades. Australia will gladly take Kiwi tax dollars, but do nothing in return.

Despite Australia/s petulance, NZ still grants Australian citizens access to PR, citizenship and social security once established in NZ in a straight forward manner, in a way which is not offered when they come to Australia.

It is a highly unfair state of play, where Australia continues to not reciprocate the level of treatment Australians are granted in New Zealand.

but it stripped away long established paths to Permament Residency and citizenship.

OK but why did they do it ? just curious ?

They cynic in me says political opportunism. If you aren't a PR or citizen, your access to social services is severely curtailed.

The kiwi 'dole bludger' (read pacific islander with NZ citizenship) stereotype was somethng to be exploited by Howard and his conservative merry men in the early 2000's. The other was a back door path to Australian citizenship for migrants who went to NZ first then to OZ. I think there was the claim that the NZ wasn't paying its 'fair share' in SS payments. I seem to recall this was the same time the Australian government dudded British pensioners.

As usual the facts are the opposite. NZ's as a group have a lower unemployment rate than Australians. In terms of NZ citizenship, the government there increase the wait time from 2 years to 5 years, so NZ was hardly a backdoor way into Australia any more. Similarly, in relative terms, NZ hosts more Australians as a percentage of population than the other way around, so Australia really screwed kiwi's on the equity front. NZ's a group certainly contribute more to the system than they take out.

It was easy political point scoring, at the expense of our closest neigbour and our closest ally.

Its been a decade an a half since the agreement and only now the downside is becoming apparent.

Families long established in OZ, kids who moved there when young, totally excluded from access to social services. Not just talking about the dole here, I'm talking about access to womens shelters in the case of abusive spouses, university loan scheme, emergency assistance following natural disasters, national disability insurance scheme etc. People who have litterally grown up in Australia since the law changes find out that they aren't full members of the community, and people who have lived and worked for decades and find themselves in a bit of trouble later in life being told to 'go home' to get help.

It stinks.

It was easy political point scoring, at the expense of our closest neigbour and our closest ally.

Nope. PNG is Australia's closest neighbour, and the US would be a closer ally. NZ isn't big or important enough to appear on the radar.

[Expat1]

Russell, here's a hint. Take that money you made. Go to Pakistan, China, Vietnam, Albania, Cambodia or other such fashionable country. Obtain a citizenship there then return and apply to Australia for citizenship and you are assured of Australian citizenship. If you have any doubt it works just go to Sydney and look around.

[samran]

The Russel Crowe factor aside, this story highlights some seriously disparities between how Aus and NZ treat each others citizens.

Despite our long shared history, our 40 year old common economic partnererhip and so called ANZAC traditions, in 2001 Australia enshrined some pretty draconian laws towards NZ citizens. The could live and work in OZ, but it stripped away long established paths to Permament Residency and citizenship. Long established law abiding tax paying kiwi's were not granted access to social services. Over time this has left many in a situation where they are unable to access assistance despite living and working in Australia for decades. Australia will gladly take Kiwi tax dollars, but do nothing in return.

Despite Australia/s petulance, NZ still grants Australian citizens access to PR, citizenship and social security once established in NZ in a straight forward manner, in a way which is not offered when they come to Australia.

It is a highly unfair state of play, where Australia continues to not reciprocate the level of treatment Australians are granted in New Zealand.

I agree with most of what you've said but "Australia will gladly take Kiwi tax dollars, but do nothing in return" omits the fact that Kiwis know the conditions under which they come to Australia and take jobs that aren't available to them in New Zealand. That does not mean that those conditions are fair. The reason for them stems back to the 1970s and 80s when Australians were concerned about the number of Kiwis coming to Australia and "taking Aussie jobs and living off the dole." Many Australians are unaware that these punitive conditions apply to New Zealand citizens and there would be support for changing them but currently there is no political support for it.

Don't disagree with anything you say.

Maybe Russ can use his profile to change things.

[harrry]

As a convicted criminal just why should he get citizenship?

Edited March 26, 2015 by harrry

[samran]

I don't understand why he needs Oz citizenship to start with.

If you are rich and famous, these things are irrelevant.

He grew up and identifies as an australian. What is so difficult to understand about that?

[samran]

Russell, here's a hint. Take that money you made. Go to Pakistan, China, Vietnam, Albania, Cambodia or other such fashionable country. Obtain a citizenship there then return and apply to Australia for citizenship and you are assured of Australian citizenship. If you have any doubt it works just go to Sydney and look around.

Another miserable contribution from the peanut gallery.

[Cats4ever]

I seem to recall this was the same time the Australian government dudded British pensioners. "SAMRAN"

Explain please? UK pensioners have their UK pension amount frozen when they move to Oz. The UK pension is assessed as income, in the same way as Oz people's managed investments or interest payments. This means as the indexed pension rises, the effect of the frozen UK pension lessens. Many UK pensioners resident in unlikely spots do not have their UK pensions frozen.

By the way, I think the restrictions on Kiwis have gone too far.

[samran]

I seem to recall this was the same time the Australian government dudded British pensioners. "SAMRAN"

Explain please? UK pensioners have their UK pension amount frozen when they move to Oz. The UK pension is assessed as income, in the same way as Oz people's managed investments or interest payments. This means as the indexed pension rises, the effect of the frozen UK pension lessens. Many UK pensioners resident in unlikely spots do not have their UK pensions frozen.

By the way, I think the restrictions on Kiwis have gone too far.

The reciprocal pensions agreement between Australia and the UK was torn up around March 2001 from a quick google. One month after the current kiwi agreement came into effect. Howard was on an roll I guess.

[Linky]

Reports now in that immigration has no record of refusal nor any record of him applying for citizenship. I cannot link at the moment but is in ninemsn news

[samran]

Reports now in that immigration has no record of refusal nor any record of him applying for citizenship. I cannot link at the moment but is in ninemsn news

Is saw that. Guess you can't apply for what you are ineligible for...

At the same time, the immigtation departments response was disingenuous and glosses over the real issue which we are discussing here.

[Dexlowe]

Quote - #46

"The reason for them stems back to the 1970s and 80s when Australians were concerned about the number of Kiwis coming to Australia and "taking Aussie jobs and living off the dole."

For the record, there was some hysteria and fallacy about this. I lived in Aust for much of the 70s and 80s. Talk about Kiwis taking Aussie jobs was not as bad as it sounded - unemployment went through phases, the worst I can remember was in the mid-70s, but was never at dramatic proportions - in fact there was as much talk about lazy Aussies as there was about Kiwis taking their jobs. Meantime, Australia's immigration intake was going full steam ahead. And as for Kiwis living off the dole - I know little about the Bondi scene, but in my 15-odd years in Aust, I could count on one hand (at any one time, of course ) the number of Kiwis I knew who were not gainfully employed. I was seldom ever out of work and seemed to be welcomed by Aussie employers wherever I went because they regarded their Kiwi staff as more diligent and reliable than most other workers. Just for the record from one person's point of view.