Did my washing machine just shock me?..

[Forkinhades]

Do you have a double socket to plug into ?

If so you could use just the earth cable in one.

So 2 plugs side by side, one will take the L & N, other will take the earth.

[lopburi3]

If they are two round pins you can use the above and solder the wire to the ground pin tab. For flat pins you might have to hard-wire to outlet. Tape the ground wire to line cord to keep together. Be sure your outlet has a real ground wire.

Edit: Above would be neater than hard-wire and just require buying a 3 pin plug and attachment of the ground wire to that plug.

[Forkinhades]

I recently purchased an hitachi fridge freezer. Instructions said this appliance must be earthed. It came with its own 2 core with a molded plug on! They didn't even supply earth cable.

I connected an earth on the back, which I then took to my dishwasher, then back to a socket.

TiT

[Sophon]

Do you have a double socket to plug into ?

If so you could use just the earth cable in one.

So 2 plugs side by side, one will take the L & N, other will take the earth.

I do have double sockets at both places, and if I understand you correctly you are suggesting I just fit a single pin to the earth wire and plug that into the earth receptacle? If so, I don't think I have to use the second socket as both plugs are of the flat type, so there should be room for both plug and the separate earth pin in one socket. Can you buy single pins, or would I have to cannibalise a plug to get the pin?

I will do as you suggest, but a nice adapter would look neater (not that it matters that much since it will be behind the fridge/freezer).

Sophon

[Sophon]

If they are two round pins you can use the above and solder the wire to the ground pin tab. For flat pins you might have to hard-wire to outlet. Tape the ground wire to line cord to keep together. Be sure your outlet has a real ground wire.

Edit: Above would be neater than hard-wire and just require buying a 3 pin plug and attachment of the ground wire to that plug.

OK, I see. You are suggesting that I attach the ground wire to a complete three pin plug rather than just a single pin. I will give that some thought.

Sophon

[Crossy]

I will do as you suggest, but a nice adapter would look neater (not that it matters that much since it will be behind the fridge/freezer).

In the past I've 'adjusted' one of the 3-pin plug-in surge arresting adaptors. They come apart fairly easily so a tail can be attached to the earth pin and lead outside, then you plug that in and plug the appliance into the adaptor, join the appliance ground to the tail with a choc-bloc.

I'll post a photo later.

[lopburi3]

Personally I prefer to change to a proper plug - suspect most companies would not object for major items and in my experience most fail a bit after guarantee so would make no real difference. But understand it is traumatic to remove a nice molded on plug and taking a bit of a chance re garantee.

[Forkinhades]

Non sensical post removed

[shaurene]

It is very common in Thailand no proper earthing. In our village a young girl got full shock from her Mammas machine and ended up semi paralysed.

When I change the push in connectors on my 50in Samsung TV from my True box to the connectors for my video box I always got a shock like a 12-24v shock but it is ok if I turn the power off first.

[shaurene]

Do you have a double socket to plug into ?

If so you could use just the earth cable in one.

So 2 plugs side by side, one will take the L & N, other will take the earth.

I do have double sockets at both places, and if I understand you correctly you are suggesting I just fit a single pin to the earth wire and plug that into the earth receptacle? If so, I don't think I have to use the second socket as both plugs are of the flat type, so there should be room for both plug and the separate earth pin in one socket. Can you buy single pins, or would I have to cannibalise a plug to get the pin?

I will do as you suggest, but a nice adapter would look neater (not that it matters that much since it will be behind the fridge/freezer).

I would also make sure that your shower water heaters are correctly earthed as this can be a certain killer.

Sophon

[gandalf12]

If the machine is not earthed it is distinctly possible. You really should have it earthed. Water and electricity are not good together especially when there is no earth

[Forkinhades]

^ indeed sir, and it has been explained in previous posts.

Thank you

[Mudcrab]

God help us.

Surely there are some qualified retired electricians that can make few baht on the side helping out other people here. Some of the posts I have just read range from nonsense to downright dangerous.

Might be an interesting little earner for those inclined.

[Forkinhades]

Keep it civil please.

[Mudcrab]

Don't think current flows in the neutral? It most certainly does in a single phase system.

There is an old adage " loose neutral kills electricians". This is because a disconnected neutral is live.

Remember old mate Ohm and his law. No current flow equals no voltage drop so the (disconnected neutral) conductor has the same potential as the supply.

I think there is some confusion from our US friends when discussing 220 volts as they are used to this being three phase where, in a balanced circuit the neutral current could be very small or approach zero.

But not likely in a domestic situation at that voltage in Thailand.

People forget the basics of electrical safety and immediately talk about GFI, RCD's, ELCB's etc.

Think about driving a car. The GFI's etc are your safety belt and air bag.....items of last resort.

The well built and maintained motor vehicle should have many safety features such as brakes in working order. Similarly the electrical installation should be in good serviceable condition and correctly built.

The other safety devices are a back up should our primary safety system fail e.g the earthing or grounding system becomes compromised. They should not be the first system we rely on to keep us safe.

Back to my original comment. There surely must be some retired, qualified electricians who can run a small business...even overseeing Thai sparkies to lift safety standards and make a few baht.

//sorry had to edit or it would not make sense// Forkinhades

[MiKT]

As said lack of earth. Washing Machines often come with Schuko plugs. These require a Schuko socket for the earth to be connected correctly. The earth is the metal side contacts on the plug. As an alternative a third pin can be added to the plug to fit a standard 3 pin outlet.

Pic of Schuko plug/socket

schuko.jpg

If anybody knows where to get this 'third ' pin, can they please advise here.

First you need to check that your washing machine has a 3 core cable (live, neutral and EARTH and that the earth cable is connected to the washing machine chassis. You must also check that the wall sockets in your house/condo also have an earth wire and that you have a properly grounded earth system in your house/condo.

It is useless fitting an earth pin to a Schuko plug unless the machine and house are properly earthed.

Anyway, it is much better to change the entire plug, as after a lot of use the earth pins on Schuko's have a tendency to come out and get stuck in the wall socket. It's a bad design.

Until it is very securely earthed, be very careful touching your washing machine when it is running. Years ago in the UK I was literally blown 4 meters across a kitchen and had huge black and blue bruises all the way up both my arms and across my chest after touching a washing machine whilst leaning on a tap. Upon investigation it turned out that the machine was not earthed and had a fault, plus, although the apartment I was in had 3 pin sockets, there were no earth wires fitted and the only good earth source was the copper water pipes!

I have no idea why I was not killed and I still count myself very lucky to be alive after that.

The only good news was I soon learned how to rewire a house.

Don't mess with electricity, especially in Thailand. It sounds like your machine might have a problem with the cabling inside and you should have it checked by a competent electrician or a washing machine technician. Just earthing the plug might not solve the problem as even if it was earthed you could still get a shock if the floor was wet and you had bare feet.

[Dellboy218]

First question......What type of washing machine is it? Is it plastic or metal bodied? Does it have on it somewhere a screw connection with an earth symbol or does it have on it a symbol that looks like a square within a square? The latter means its double insulated and designed to be used without an earth. Does the mains wire have an earth core included? If it does then it is meant to be earthed, if not then it usually means it is not. If there is a metal chassis or back plate then usually there is a screw somewhere you can add an earth wire if the makers deem it necessary. If an electrical appliance has a metal body that is not earthed then generally you feel a slight buzz on your finger tips. Earth or no Earth get an RCD or ELCB safety device fitted to cover your whole house. A well known brand in Thailand is Safe T Cut. This will very quickly break the bower to your house if it detects an anomaly, i.e. you getting an electric shock providing a current path to earth. They work very fast and are a life saver. If you don't have one get one fitted.

[Forkinhades]

^ good valid points delboy.

We welcome your input.

Just to add not seen many double insulated signs on any appliances here.

[MiKT]

First question......What type of washing machine is it? Is it plastic or metal bodied? Does it have on it somewhere a screw connection with an earth symbol or does it have on it a symbol that looks like a square within a square? The latter means its double insulated and designed to be used without an earth. Does the mains wire have an earth core included? If it does then it is meant to be earthed, if not then it usually means it is not. If there is a metal chassis or back plate then usually there is a screw somewhere you can add an earth wire if the makers deem it necessary. If an electrical appliance has a metal body that is not earthed then generally you feel a slight buzz on your finger tips. Earth or no Earth get an RCD or ELCB safety device fitted to cover your whole house. A well known brand in Thailand is Safe T Cut. This will very quickly break the bower to your house if it detects an anomaly, i.e. you getting an electric shock providing a current path to earth. They work very fast and are a life saver. If you don't have one get one fitted.

Yes, RCD's ELCB,s RCBO's etc. are very good to have in your house (essential for me) but many appliances have only a 2 pin plug fitted and somewhere on a scruffy bit of paper that was stuffed into the packing when it arrived, was a picture showing that a separate earth wire needs to be fitted.

'Caveat Emptor'

[Forkinhades]

^ please read the pinned thread, as suggested in previous posts with links.

[Mudcrab]

Don't think current flows in the neutral? It most certainly does in a single phase system.

There is an old adage " loose neutral kills electricians". This is because a disconnected neutral is live.

Remember old mate Ohm and his law. No current flow equals no voltage drop so the (disconnected neutral) conductor has the same potential as the supply.

I think there is some confusion from our US friends when discussing 220 volts as they are used to this being three phase where, in a balanced circuit the neutral current could be very small or approach zero.

But not likely in a domestic situation at that voltage in Thailand.

People forget the basics of electrical safety and immediately talk about GFI, RCD's, ELCB's etc.

Think about driving a car. The GFI's etc are your safety belt and air bag.....items of last resort.

The well built and maintained motor vehicle should have many safety features such as brakes in working order. Similarly the electrical installation should be in good serviceable condition and correctly built.

The other safety devices are a back up should our primary safety system fail e.g the earthing or grounding system becomes compromised. They should not be the first system we rely on to keep us safe.

Back to my original comment. There surely must be some retired, qualified electricians who can run a small business...even overseeing Thai sparkies to lift safety standards and make a few baht.

//sorry had to edit or it would not make sense// Forkinhades

no worries

[greenchair]

I am sorry to butt in on the washing machine thing.

But I have one of those electric heaters for my shower. When I put my arm up .it is above the shower head and near the box , I can feel a slight numbing sensation and it feels like an electric current. I just don't put my hand up anymore. And don't have any problem now. Is my family in danger??

[gandalf12]

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Don't think current flows in the neutral? It most certainly does in a single phase system.

There is an old adage " loose neutral kills electricians". This is because a disconnected neutral is live.

Remember old mate Ohm and his law. No current flow equals no voltage drop so the (disconnected neutral) conductor has the same potential as the supply.

I think there is some confusion from our US friends when discussing 220 volts as they are used to this being three phase where, in a balanced circuit the neutral current could be very small or approach zero.

But not likely in a domestic situation at that voltage in Thailand.

People forget the basics of electrical safety and immediately talk about GFI, RCD's, ELCB's etc.

Think about driving a car. The GFI's etc are your safety belt and air bag.....items of last resort.

The well built and maintained motor vehicle should have many safety features such as brakes in working order. Similarly the electrical installation should be in good serviceable condition and correctly built.

The other safety devices are a back up should our primary safety system fail e.g the earthing or grounding system becomes compromised. They should not be the first system we rely on to keep us safe.

Back to my original comment. There surely must be some retired, qualified electricians who can run a small business...even overseeing Thai sparkies to lift safety standards and make a few baht.

//sorry had to edit or it would not make sense// Forkinhades

In 3 phase assuming it is star connected the unbalance in the phases will casue a current to flow through the star point. Delta doest have a star point for it to flow through.

I am sure there are some very good sparkies who have retired in Thailand and could supervise locals doing the job, however they would not be allowed to without a work permit and if they met that requirement Thai hate being instructed by foreigners so they may be on a road to no where

[lj cm]

A Safe-T-Cut is the most important to have.

And then do your own grounding for washing machine, water heater, computer etc.

Our water heater was installed with grounding; they just forgot to take the insulation off the ground cable!!!.

[RichCor]

I am sorry to butt in on the washing machine thing.

But I have one of those electric heaters for my shower. When I put my arm up .it is above the shower head and near the box , I can feel a slight numbing sensation and it feels like an electric current. I just don't put my hand up anymore. And don't have any problem now. Is my family in danger??

??

When you put your arm up, "above the shower head and near the box", is your arm (or hand) actually touching anything when you "feel a slight numbing sensation and it feels like an electric current"?

I would ask you to similarly reach for the sky when fully clothed and see it the issue repeats itself. If so, that's a nerve pinch (a different scale of electrical issue) that can't be solved here.

While anything is possible, air isn't a very good transit mode for household electric current. And, most likely, you'd feel the same tingle or numbing sensation anywhere along your body where water touched it IF current was leaking from a faulty heating core or electrical sensor.

If you have ANY doubt, make sure the unit has a functional/working ground, and is either connected to a functional RCD (Safe-T-Cut) is in place on the mains, or on the line going to the unit itself, and TEST THEM.

[lopburi3]

A Safe-T-Cut is the most important to have.

And then do your own grounding for washing machine, water heater, computer etc.

Our water heater was installed with grounding; they just forgot to take the insulation off the ground cable!!!.

Why would they take the insulation off a ground cable? The wire does not have to be bare - just attached to unit chassis and a ground point. Or do you mean it was attached without direct metal to metal contact?

[lj cm]

A Safe-T-Cut is the most important to have.

And then do your own grounding for washing machine, water heater, computer etc.

Our water heater was installed with grounding; they just forgot to take the insulation off the ground cable!!!.

Why would they take the insulation off a ground cable? The wire does not have to be bare - just attached to unit chassis and a ground point. Or do you mean it was attached without direct metal to metal contact?

Yes; it was attached with insulation on and without metal to metal contact.

[RedQualia]

I am sorry to butt in on the washing machine thing.

But I have one of those electric heaters for my shower. When I put my arm up .it is above the shower head and near the box , I can feel a slight numbing sensation and it feels like an electric current. I just don't put my hand up anymore. And don't have any problem now. Is my family in danger??

I've never seen electrical cable in Thailand that has three wires inside the sheath. Only two. Grounding an appliance, then, almost always involves running an additional relatively thin ground wire. Looking at your water heater, you should see a "fat" cable leaving the box, as well as a thin wire. If there's a thin wire, that should be the ground wire.

To be more certain, however, pop the cover off the water heater and look at the electrical connections. You'll see two wires at least, going to screws that are probably labeled "L" and "N." If you're lucky, there will be a third connector in a bank of connectors for the ground wire. If there's a wire connected, then there's a "good chance" that it's properly grounded. But ground wires can sometimes be attached elsewhere... To one or another screw located here or there inside the box. The important thing is to find three wire connections inside, and to see that they leave the box. Again, a good chance it's properly grounded.

If you find three wires, then follow the cables that leave the box and see where they go. If the ground wire isn't connected to anything on the other end, it's not grounded.

Make sure it's grounded, or get it grounded. You don't really want yourself or any family member to be standing in water waiting for an electrical shock.

[RedQualia]

Built a new house back in 2007. Three phase electricity and proper grounding throughout, with three prong outlets everywhere. As a part of building the house, of course, I bought all sorts of appliances. Including a relatively expensive (at the time) Siemens front load washing machine from HomePro (27,000 Baht, maybe).

HomePro workers delivered it. Brought it into the house. Unboxed it, spun it around this way and that, connected water hoses and such.

I turned my attention away from the worker holding the electrical cord for a bare moment, and heard "snip." I looked back, and sure enough, he'd cut the third prong off the plug. I spoke no Thai at the time. Probably a good thing, or I would have laid into him. Instead, and fuming, all I could do was show him the electrical outlet two feet in front of him and tell him in English that it supported three prongs. And demand that he fix it. He argued, of course. Lucky I didn't know how to say "khwai" at the time. His fix? To cut the head off a screw and insert it into the hole in the plug he'd left. I should have made him replace the entire electrical cord and plug, but didn't.

Moral of the story: I could give other examples, but in essence -- do not turn your attention away from any worker here holding any kind of tool, or pocket knife, or paint brush, or shop rag, or potato, or who even looks like he might be thinking about working on something, no matter what shop they come from.

[Crossy]

Anyway, it is much better to change the entire plug, as after a lot of use the earth pins on Schuko's have a tendency to come out and get stuck in the wall socket. It's a bad design.

It's not poor design, it's not supposed to work like that. The hole in a Schuko plug lines up with a ground pin in the French version of the outlet.

It doesn't line up properly with the ground hole in a Thai outlet, so could damage the outlet leaving others who use it with no ground.

Use the adaptor mentioned in other posts (or a Schuko outlet) to connect a Schuko plug properly.