Concern over alternative to martial law

[Lite Beer]

Concern over alternative to martial law
THE SUNDAY NATION

BANGKOK: -- POLITICIANS yesterday expressed their opposition to Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha's plan to replace martial law with an order by the National Council for Peace and Order (NCPO) in a bid to address security concerns.

They said that the replacement law, to be issued by Prayut in his capacity as the NCPO chief, would be even worse than martial law.

On Friday, Prayut said he was waiting for the right time to issue the order under Article 44 of the post-coup provisional charter, which gave him extensive powers as the NCPO leader.

Red-shirt leaders, who are politicians from the Pheu Thai Party, said that they expected the NCPO's new order to bring more harm than good to the country.

Nuttawut Saikuar, who served as a Cabinet member in the previous Pheu Thai-led government, said he agreed with lifting martial law but there should be no other special order to restrict people's rights and liberties.

"I think Article 44 will make things even worse. Martial law may look ugly but at least you know the scope of the junta's powers. On the contrary, Article 44 is ugly and you don't see the bounds of their power," he said.

Jatuporn Promphan, leader of the red shirts' United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD), said that replacing martial law with a new NCPO order was like "jumping out of the pan into the fire".

He said that under Article 44, the junta chief had unlimited powers over the administration, the legislature and the judiciary.

Jatuporn added that he did not see any benefit in replacing martial law with the new order simply to please foreign countries that were pressuring the Thai government to lift martial law.

Democrat Party politician Nipit Intarasombat said that martial law should be retained, as it had proved effective in preventing violent incidents following the coup last May.

Nipit, a legal expert, warned that invoking Article 44 would pose more problems for the government. He said that the measures issued under the clause would be less effective and more difficult to repeal than martial law.

However, Peerasak Porchit, vice president of the National Legislative Assembly, voiced support for the prime minister's plan.

He said lifting martial law would benefit the country's tourism industry and the economy as a whole. Regarding security concerns, Peerasak said that the likelihood of political violence had diminished.

Meanwhile, Deputy Government Spokesman Maj-General Sansern Kaewkamnerd said he believed General Prayut would exercise power under the provisional charter to only maintain peace and order. He said it was normal for people to criticise the government and policy decisions.

Panitan Watanayagorn, a security expert and an adviser to Deputy Prime Minister Prawit Wongsuwan, said the move to lift martial law was because of pressure from inside and outside the country.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Concern-over-alternative-to-martial-law-30256970.html

-- The Nation 2015-03-29

[willyumiii]

This article might have some meaning if the alternative was explained.

"It's ugly" really doesn't tell us much!

[Strangebrew]

Lift martial law but with the understanding that protest's will be confined to certain areas and a permit must be applied for So area of protest can be defined. And that those who will be requesting will take responsibility for actions of protesters. So where as protest leaders will be held accountable for actions of protesters, and no protest shall block commerce or public flow of traffic or hinder government operations.

[Just1Voice]

Isn't this move somewhat similar to what Hitler did to take over with unlimited power?

[Lite Beer]

Tourism business operators welcome lifting of martial law

BANGKOK: -- Private business operators have welcomed the government’s plan to replace the martial law with Section 44 of the interim Constitution which also gives special powers to the prime minister.

Mr Sa-gna Ruangwattanakul, advisor to business operators at Khao Sarn road, said that lifting of the martial law would boost tourism business as package tourists would return to visit Thailand after their suspension of visits since last May.

Mr Issara Boonyoung, honorary president of Real Estate Business Association, said that martial law has psychological effects on foreign tour operators and tourists. Also, he added that insurance policy did not cover martial law for tourists visiting Thailand thus discouraging European package tour operators to bring group tourists to visit Thailand.

Mr Charoen Wang-anon, secretary-general of Thai Tourism Business Association, said tourism business would be given a boost from the lifting of the martial law although most foreign tourists who have visited Thailand are not worried with the law.

Mr Panitharn Wattanayakorn, advisor to the deputy prime minister, said the government had realized that it was about time to allow more space for free political expressions.

Source: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/tourism-business-operators-welcome-lifting-of-martial-law

-- Thai PBS 2015-03-29

[willyumiii]

All this talk about increasing tourism in Thailand.

I just spent three weeks showing a friend the more popular tourist destinations in Thailand.

There were way too many tourists and the experience was ruined by large crowds of rude people unwilling to spend much money..

If Thailand tourism needs more money, they need to improve the experience and attract fewer people willing to spend more money on a good experienc,

not increase the number of tourist on a backpacker's or package tour budget..

[Chris Lawrence]

This article might have some meaning if the alternative was explained.

"It's ugly" really doesn't tell us much!

"under Article 44, the junta chief had unlimited powers over the administration, the legislature and the judiciary" in other words The General will have the power to do anything he wants. He will also be immured from consequence to his actions. Military cannot be held accountable for any action that their regime does to Thailand under the interim constitution.

Some people in Thailand may choose their words carefully, but a more descriptive phrase may describe what Article 44 could mean.

[JOC]

In other words, Prayut is letting go of the small stick only to get a bigger one!!

Makes sense for a leader afraid of civil liberties................

[casindonet]

Can we use the word "D" once Article 44 is invoke? Cause article 44 only proofs that he will have absolute power.

[toybits]

Self-censored. ha ha.. It was a joke. Ha ha...

Edited March 29, 2015 by toybits

[robblok]

Give me martial law anyday over bombings and red shirts on the street. They have a track record for violence, if there were some guarantees they would not come come out and start protesting / killing.. and intimidating judges and such. Why not.

But actually I think this is the only thing that keeps them from the streets.

[sunshine51]

What Section 44 means....

"Section 42 keeps the NCPO in existence and authorises it to control the cabinet."

"Section 44 empowers the NCPO leader to issue any order "for the sake of the reforms in any field, the promotion of love and harmony amongst the people in the nation, or the prevention, abatement or suppression of any act detrimental to national order or security, royal throne, national economy or public administration, whether the act occurs inside or outside the kingdom". The orders so issued are all deemed "lawful, constitutional and final"

Source...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_interim_constitution_of_Thailand

In other words....The God Clause...think about it & the possible ramifications.

Edited March 29, 2015 by sunshine51

[JOC]

Give me martial law anyday over bombings and red shirts on the street. They have a track record for violence, if there were some guarantees they would not come come out and start protesting / killing.. and intimidating judges and such. Why not.

But actually I think this is the only thing that keeps them from the streets.

Robbie old friend, let me explain it to you very slowly!!

When a majority of a country's people over and over again have seen their legally cast votes being voided by the juridical system and/or the army, they might lose patience.

That loss of patience may sometimes sadly result in violence, when people reach their breaking point.

Not defending the violence, but I can understand, that sometimes people just had enough!!

You are from Holland, a very democratic country, and you are defending this:

A new Thai constitution being drafted by the ruling junta is a throwback to an era when a royalist and military elite had a stranglehold on politics, analysts and politicians say, warning of dire consequences for democracy.

Beyond me.......................

[robblok]

Give me martial law anyday over bombings and red shirts on the street. They have a track record for violence, if there were some guarantees they would not come come out and start protesting / killing.. and intimidating judges and such. Why not.

But actually I think this is the only thing that keeps them from the streets.

Robbie old friend, let me explain it to you very slowly!!

When a majority of a country's people over and over again have seen their legally cast votes being voided by the juridical system and/or the army, they might lose patience.

That loss of patience may sometimes sadly result in violence, when people reach their breaking point.

Not defending the violence, but I can understand, that sometimes people just had enough!!

You are from Holland, a very democratic country, and you are defending this:

A new Thai constitution being drafted by the ruling junta is a throwback to an era when a royalist and military elite had a stranglehold on politics, analysts and politicians say, warning of dire consequences for democracy.

Beyond me.......................

Tahts is ok its beyond me how you can compare a working democracy like in Holland with a failed / fake one without transparency checks and balances.

Also beyond me how a goverment led by a convicted criminal with a terrorist wing can be seen as legimate.

Maybe if the PTP respected and acted like a true democracy no coups were needed.

Plus the hate preachers like Jattuporn should be expelled and all those that encouraged people to burn BKK should be in jail.

Strange that the protests against the coup in 2010 were not after the coup but after Thaksin his ill gotten money was frozen.

[rubl]

Jatuporn is right. With the junta practically unable to do what they like under Martial Law they may as well lift it and have an Emergence Decree in place or use the Internal Security Act. Much more democratic as well, ask Ms. Yingluck. Maybe the NCPO will even be able to hire former advisors and 'heads' like Chalerm and Surapong

[LuckyLew]

one step forward and two steps backwards

soon everyone will have to call him Khun God

[ourmanflint]

Isn't this move somewhat similar to what Hitler did to take over with unlimited power?

Where's the "this post is dumb" button when you need it?

[Just1Voice]

Isn't this move somewhat similar to what Hitler did to take over with unlimited power?

Where's the "this post is dumb" button when you need it?

Yeah, like on your post when you don't have the sense to figure out when someone is asking a simple question?

[monkeycountry]

Give me martial law anyday over bombings and red shirts on the street. They have a track record for violence, if there were some guarantees they would not come come out and start protesting / killing.. and intimidating judges and such. Why not.

But actually I think this is the only thing that keeps them from the streets.

Robbie old friend, let me explain it to you very slowly!!

When a majority of a country's people over and over again have seen their legally cast votes being voided by the juridical system and/or the army, they might lose patience.

That loss of patience may sometimes sadly result in violence, when people reach their breaking point.

Not defending the violence, but I can understand, that sometimes people just had enough!!

You are from Holland, a very democratic country, and you are defending this:

A new Thai constitution being drafted by the ruling junta is a throwback to an era when a royalist and military elite had a stranglehold on politics, analysts and politicians say, warning of dire consequences for democracy.

Beyond me.......................

If a kindergarden was run by democracy, the kids would vote for eating ice cream all day long till they got sick and fat and/or the kindergarden went broke. Fortunately there is no democracy in kindergardens, and the teacher has absolute power. The reason noone complains about that setup is that everyone agrees the kids have no idea what is good for them, or for the kindergarden as a whole.

Personally I think the same could be said for a very large portion of the Thai electorate.

Edited March 29, 2015 by monkeycountry

[monkeycountry]

Give me martial law anyday over bombings and red shirts on the street. They have a track record for violence, if there were some guarantees they would not come come out and start protesting / killing.. and intimidating judges and such. Why not.

But actually I think this is the only thing that keeps them from the streets.

Robbie old friend, let me explain it to you very slowly!!

When a majority of a country's people over and over again have seen their legally cast votes being voided by the juridical system and/or the army, they might lose patience.

That loss of patience may sometimes sadly result in violence, when people reach their breaking point.

Not defending the violence, but I can understand, that sometimes people just had enough!!

You are from Holland, a very democratic country, and you are defending this:

A new Thai constitution being drafted by the ruling junta is a throwback to an era when a royalist and military elite had a stranglehold on politics, analysts and politicians say, warning of dire consequences for democracy.

Beyond me.......................

If a kindergarden was run by democracy, the kids would vote for eating ice cream all day long till they got sick and fat and/or the kindergarden went broke. Fortunately there is no democracy in kindergardens, and the teacher has absolute power. The reason noone complains about that setup is that everyone agrees the kids have no idea what is good for them, or for the kindergarden as a whole.

Personally I think the same could be said for a very large portion of the Thai electorate.

I am quite certain that any PM candidate promising to borrow an enormous amount of money abroad at any interest rate and then distribute say a million baht as a gift to each and every thai, would win any election.

The fact that it would obviously turn Thailand into Greece would matter little to most Thais. Most Thais don't even know about Greece's current situation, they cannot even find it on a map.

And that is why many if not most Thais are simply not qualified to vote, especially not when many of the politicians don't care about the future of Thailand either.

[wabothai]

Allowing one man to have ultimate power is extremely dangerous, no matter how you look at it.

Concerns here are very legit.

[empireboy]

All this talk about increasing tourism in Thailand.

I just spent three weeks showing a friend the more popular tourist destinations in Thailand.

There were way too many tourists and the experience was ruined by large crowds of rude people unwilling to spend much money..

If Thailand tourism needs more money, they need to improve the experience and attract fewer people willing to spend more money on a good experienc,

not increase the number of tourist on a backpacker's or package tour budget..

Yes 1/2 as many tourists spending 4 times as much money would be a good outcome...

[26vinny]

no different to the yellow shirts. it aint all red, stop blaming them its THAINESS at its best, until RTP are cleaned up nothing will change. prayut has no chance of cleaning up this problem, until jail terms are handed out to the RTP and their bosses, (and not moved to inactive post )who are the elite, prayut is just their puppet. but i agree with the stability in principle under martial law.and i am neither colour

Give me martial law anyday over bombings and red shirts on the street. They have a track record for violence, if there were some guarantees they would not come come out and start protesting / killing.. and intimidating judges and such. Why not.

But actually I think this is the only thing that keeps them from the streets.

[welshissan]

Give me martial law anyday over bombings and red shirts on the street. They have a track record for violence, if there were some guarantees they would not come come out and start protesting / killing.. and intimidating judges and such. Why not.

But actually I think this is the only thing that keeps them from the streets.

Robbie old friend, let me explain it to you very slowly!!

When a majority of a country's people over and over again have seen their legally cast votes being voided by the juridical system and/or the army, they might lose patience.

That loss of patience may sometimes sadly result in violence, when people reach their breaking point.

Not defending the violence, but I can understand, that sometimes people just had enough!!

You are from Holland, a very democratic country, and you are defending this:

A new Thai constitution being drafted by the ruling junta is a throwback to an era when a royalist and military elite had a stranglehold on politics, analysts and politicians say, warning of dire consequences for democracy.

Beyond me.......................

If a kindergarden was run by democracy, the kids would vote for eating ice cream all day long till they got sick and fat and/or the kindergarden went broke. Fortunately there is no democracy in kindergardens, and the teacher has absolute power. The reason noone complains about that setup is that everyone agrees the kids have no idea what is good for them, or for the kindergarden as a whole.

Personally I think the same could be said for a very large portion of the Thai electorate.

I am quite certain that any PM candidate promising to borrow an enormous amount of money abroad at any interest rate and then distribute say a million baht as a gift to each and every thai, would win any election.

The fact that it would obviously turn Thailand into Greece would matter little to most Thais. Most Thais don't even know about Greece's current situation, they cannot even find it on a map.

And that is why many if not most Thais are simply not qualified to vote, especially not when many of the politicians don't care about the future of Thailand either.

Why in your opinion are they not qualified to vote ? because they don't know where Greece is on a map?

If the democrats decided that their was life outside of Bangkok and gave the people a proper education, and quality of life, then most of the recent bad history in Thailand might not have happened.

Personally I think that you think that your too well educated to think about others! All brains and no common sense

[TSF]

Give me martial law anyday over bombings and red shirts on the street. They have a track record for violence, if there were some guarantees they would not come come out and start protesting / killing.. and intimidating judges and such. Why not.

But actually I think this is the only thing that keeps them from the streets.

I'd phrase it a tad different: Give me martial law anyday over the Shins. And after this current situation is over and elections are held Thailand must make 100% sure that Mr Takky or any of the Shin tribe are not involved in any party. Otherwise the whole cycle will just restart again and another general will pull another coup.

[how241]

Can we use the word "D" once Article 44 is invoke? Cause article 44 only proofs that he will have absolute power.

I think so...

[rubl]

I am quite certain that any PM candidate promising to borrow an enormous amount of money abroad at any interest rate and then distribute say a million baht as a gift to each and every thai, would win any election.

The fact that it would obviously turn Thailand into Greece would matter little to most Thais. Most Thais don't even know about Greece's current situation, they cannot even find it on a map.

And that is why many if not most Thais are simply not qualified to vote, especially not when many of the politicians don't care about the future of Thailand either.

Why in your opinion are they not qualified to vote ? because they don't know where Greece is on a map?

If the democrats decided that their was life outside of Bangkok and gave the people a proper education, and quality of life, then most of the recent bad history in Thailand might not have happened.

Personally I think that you think that your too well educated to think about others! All brains and no common sense

Rumour has it more than half of the Bangkok population comes from upcountry.

Anyway, concerns, about alternatives to Martial Law. With Emergency Decree and Internal Security Act so socially acceptable I fail to see the need for alternatives.

[smedly]

people being critical of the marshal law and now the enactment of article 44 really need to think back to last year when innocent protestors and children were being slaughtered on the streets by the Thaksin funded red terrorist - do you honestly want to go back to that ? you could even think back to 2010 were again the red thaksin terrorists were on the rampage through Bangkok burning and shooting

I don't care what we heave here now but anything is better than going back to either of the senarios above, and if you think Thaksin wouldn't start it all up again at the drop of a hat you are greatly mistaken and extremely naïve, the man is pure evil and will stop at nothing to feed his own ego save his face and willingly wreck Thailand and anything else that gets in the way in the process

The only people who are complaining about the current situation and the current reform process are those that have been abusing Thailand for years filling their own greedy pockets and see it all coming to an end once and for all

[robblok]

Give me martial law anyday over bombings and red shirts on the street. They have a track record for violence, if there were some guarantees they would not come come out and start protesting / killing.. and intimidating judges and such. Why not.

But actually I think this is the only thing that keeps them from the streets.

Robbie old friend, let me explain it to you very slowly!!

When a majority of a country's people over and over again have seen their legally cast votes being voided by the juridical system and/or the army, they might lose patience.

That loss of patience may sometimes sadly result in violence, when people reach their breaking point.

Not defending the violence, but I can understand, that sometimes people just had enough!!

You are from Holland, a very democratic country, and you are defending this:

A new Thai constitution being drafted by the ruling junta is a throwback to an era when a royalist and military elite had a stranglehold on politics, analysts and politicians say, warning of dire consequences for democracy.

Beyond me.......................

Tahts is ok its beyond me how you can compare a working democracy like in Holland with a failed / fake one without transparency checks and balances.

Also beyond me how a goverment led by a convicted criminal with a terrorist wing can be seen as legimate.

Maybe if the PTP respected and acted like a true democracy no coups were needed.

Plus the hate preachers like Jattuporn should be expelled and all those that encouraged people to burn BKK should be in jail.

Strange that the protests against the coup in 2010 were not after the coup but after Thaksin his ill gotten money was frozen.

Have another drink Robbie!!hardknott-rhetoric 2.jpg

The pizza looks good.. seems you can't counter the arguments. Did you really think what happened and how the PTP rules was democratic and on par with the democracy of countries like Holland, UK, USA ? or that it was just getting voted in and then putting their pawns in place and forgetting about the rest of the democratic principles.

[Benmart]

So much wind in the sails from those who have never served aboard a ship.