En-Dex 8000 - problem

[ryanhull]

Hey All,

Sometime ago I asked on the forum regarding getting rid of my two goldens ticks, I was given mixed reviews for a product En-dex 8000, I generally used front line plus and gave them weekly baths with tick shampoo but I was still finding ticks on them...

Some users warned me not to give them it becuase of what it contained but most said they use it with there dogs no problem and generally over all good reviews and the tick problem is really bad here,

so anyway off I went my pet shop, I bought a box then gave my dogs a dose each and all was well it seemed to remove the ticks and didn't see any ticks, anyway the ticks started coming back yesterday so I gave them another dose as it was the time for it again, today I saw more ticks then ever so I took my two goldens to the vets to get a proper clean and ask about what he thought to en-dex 8000 plus get some front line for them... the vet instantly freaked out when I mentioned En dex and said in the last few days alone he has had two dogs die from it and said should not be allowed to be on sale as its a non licensed drug.

Anyway my goldens are currently still in the vets getting there weekly shampoo still but he is after keeping the youngest one in for 3 days to observe her.

I trust his word as we have always taken them there and he is genuine guy with a large practice, bit worried now but hoping they will be ok, I will not be giving them it again though and suggest others stop aswell.

Cheers

[meatboy]

hope they are both ok.i was warned about useing it yrs.ago but some of our members who have used it successfully i think are experianced handlers who might also have livestock.

have you had them blood tested? if you read my posting "COULD THIS BE HIS LAST BIRTHDAY" it frightned us both and i have not fully recovered from the worry,caused by ticks although he never seemed to get many.what to use i dont really know,i use a medicated shampoo,a powder containing permethrin,a bedding spray[chaingard] again this contains permethrin but still he useually picks up 1female and the odd brown and shiney black ones daily,all his bedding, the furniture in the house is sprayed,along the skirting boards so you see we take great care of him,i exspect its better then being outside in the nights with all the mossy's about.

only solution is to give him a good feel before bed.ours love it [when the mrs.does it].

[isanbirder]

Sorry to hear that, ryanhull.

My vet (who, admittedly, is the daughter of a petshop owner) actually sells it to me. I'll ask her next time I see her.

No ticks yet this year; I have the Preventic collars waiting for my dogs when they arrive.

[ryanhull]

hope they are both ok.i was warned about useing it yrs.ago but some of our members who have used it successfully i think are experianced handlers who might also have livestock.

have you had them blood tested? if you read my posting "COULD THIS BE HIS LAST BIRTHDAY" it frightned us both and i have not fully recovered from the worry,caused by ticks although he never seemed to get many.what to use i dont really know,i use a medicated shampoo,a powder containing permethrin,a bedding spray[chaingard] again this contains permethrin but still he useually picks up 1female and the odd brown and shiney black ones daily,all his bedding, the furniture in the house is sprayed,along the skirting boards so you see we take great care of him,i exspect its better then being outside in the nights with all the mossy's about.

only solution is to give him a good feel before bed.ours love it [when the mrs.does it].

Thanks, I will have a read of that but glad he is recovering.

They are both back now and fine, I have removed quite a few ticks since they got back albeit dead ones so thats good, they have both had front line plus so hoping that will do them for a while... I will stop giving them EN-Dex 8000 for now atleast and stick with front line plus. As isanbirder is I will look at getting them both a decent tick collar from my UK vets as I am popping back

Cheers

[Keesters]

Sorry to hear about your dogs but doubt it is anything to do with Endex.

In another of your threads dated 22nd March you stated you had just obtained two UNBOXED Endex 8000 tablets and questioned the dosage instructions and side effect. You were advised correctly.

6th April (2 weeks later) you state you bought a box and re-dosed them saying it was time. Dosing at 2 weekly intervals is incorrect. Monthly is correct. However I was told to double dose the first month only.

Your vet is entitled to his opinion and I have heard other vets say the same and will not sell it. I have also heard vets say it is OK, sell it and say those who don't are just more interested in 500 baht monthly for Frontline than 20 baht a month for Endex. Those vets who agree to it are older, more experienced, own their own practice and deal mainly with Thais. Those who refuse to sell it work for a practice, are young, inexperienced and have a large Farang clientele. I have even had one such young vet lie to me stating that no veterinary practice in Pattaya, including the very large one he works for has a blood testing machine. He was charging me 2000 baht to send blood to Bangkok for analysis. I learned later, after the dog died, of a practice that does have their own machine and they happily showed it to me. When they saw my bills they said if they had charged a third of the cost it would still have been overcharging. I have never heard a vet say that Endex kills. The same large veterinary practice told be that the optimum time to spay a bitch was during its first period. That turned out to be completely the opposite of other, substantiated, advice. Spaying during menstruation increases the chance of blood loss and would likely incur INCREASED BILLS.

As for licensing; is any veternary product here subject to Thai licensing? When my Golden was being treated with Frontline I studied the box carefully and found only USA FDA approval. When first purchasing Endex I noticed the lack of even a manufacturers phone number or address. I spoke to the vendor, a breeder, who guaranteed that there would be no side effects from its use and that she would provide me a new dog free of charge should the dog become ill from it. My Labrador has been taking Endex every month for the last 4 years and has not had a single tick since. Other dogs in the area do have ticks. I also dose other peoples dogs when asked and they are all alive and well.

IMO your dogs illness could be the result of the UNBOXED Endex that may not have been Endex anyway or a tick born disease contracted prior to the dosing of Endex. It could also be that your dogs have a gene defect which results in Ivermectin becomming a poison to them although that mainly occurs with collies.

Frontline is IMO totally useless on dogs that have thick coats like Goldens and Labradors. Administered externally I have never seen it applied where it needs to be; ON THE SKIN. And after two years of putting my faith in it it failed and my Golden died of a tick borne disease despite regular checks. The ticks get deep down in the fur making them hard to find.

I have also heard stories of fake frontline being around in Thailand. Expensive Frontline may be forged while inexpensive Endex would probably not be.

I have just contacted a friend who has 4 dogs. He and his neighbor get a monthly visit from a vet who administers Ivermectin (the active ingredient of Endex) by injection to all their dogs. None of their dogs, which include Goldens, show any signs of ticks.

In conclusion I shall continue to use and recommend Endex as effective for tick control on dogs (collies and other breeds that may posses the mutated MDR1 gene excepted). I shall never recommend Frontline especially in the case of Goldens. I shall never recomend any young Thai vet over an older more experienced one. I shall always take the advise of a dog breeder and do as they do.

Stop using Endex and put your trust in Frontline if you so wish. I only hope that the dogs will not suffer from your decision. There would be one beautiful Golden Retriever alive today if only I had discovered Endex earlier.

[NickJ]

My dog was on Revolution....worked for years and then didnt.....got the parasite poisoning.....survived .....got it a year later survived....I check all the time , sprayed the yard every month......got it again....now I get the shot every month so fine for a year. Its a constant battle.

[isanbirder]

My dog was on Revolution....worked for years and then didnt.....got the parasite poisoning.....survived .....got it a year later survived....I check all the time , sprayed the yard every month......got it again....now I get the shot every month so fine for a year. Its a constant battle.

Right on the spot, Nick. There is no ultimate solution while your dog survives.

Some things seem to work, and then suddenly become ineffective. Or you can have a plague of ticks, and it disappears as suddenly as it came (if you're very lucky).

My two dogs have ivermectin every month, either in pills (Endex) or injection. Probably the injection works better. But that is not a complete solution, hence my current usage of tick collars.

The advice of vets.... well, one has to trust them! Mine is young, only a few years out of Chula, and has a mostly Thai customer-base. She is a bit inclined to go 'by the book', but so far hasn't advised me wrong. She gets the blood tests done in Buriram, and I pay B.250 each time it's needed (B.2000 sounds extortionate, though it depends how detailed the analysis is).

[meatboy]

this one's for you IB.as you know our boy has very thick coat expecially around his neck,so we have to work hard to find any strangers,we have never used a tick collar on him so is there good ones and bad ones? if so can you recommend one that we should get.

thanks MB.

[isanbirder]

this one's for you IB.as you know our boy has very thick coat expecially around his neck,so we have to work hard to find any strangers,we have never used a tick collar on him so is there good ones and bad ones? if so can you recommend one that we should get.

thanks MB.

I'm no authority on this, so take my advice with a bushel of salt.

I suspect that a tick collar wouldn't work very well with a thick coat. My toy poodle has a fair amount of hair, even though I keep it well clipped, and it doesn't seem to work too badly on her. But her coat is nothing like your boy's.

I've used two kinds of collar, one called Preventic, and the other (I forget the name) made by Bayer. I don't know anything about the chemicals, but I prefer the Preventic simply because it has a better fastening system. The Preventic collar stays as tight or loose as you want it; the Bayer collar easily loosens.

[meatboy]

many thanks IB i will get the preventic,if it dont work on him I WILL TRY IT on me.

i get those little brown ones with all the legs on me,as my boy likes to sleep on my side of the bed.

[isanbirder]

many thanks IB i will get the preventic,if it dont work on him I WILL TRY IT on me.

i get those little brown ones with all the legs on me,as my boy likes to sleep on my side of the bed.

Dog ticks come roughly in four stages

1. so small they look like dust (but they move)

2. little dark spots

3. the ones with all the legs

4. the ones which are drinking (or have drunk) blood

And they can bite humans.... and I believe there is a risk of rather nasty diseases. Don't panic; these are rare, but they do occur.

[snowgard]

Yeah, the false informations from the Dogs Mafia!!! Never give cheap unregistered drugs or your dog will die!!! 555

I give now 7 years Ivermectin to my Dogs (German Sheperd Dogs) and never ever had problems.

Unbelievable but no one of my Dogs died about it!!! Hey VETs why no one died?

Ivermectin is unregistered for Dogs in Thailand (but a lot of vets give injections to dogs).

If I remember right Ivermectin/Ivermec/Ivomec is included in En-Dex 8000. So I don't want be worry.

It's the same with Ibuprofen!!! Your dog can die!! But only if you give to much and not looks about symptoms.

But the bad effects are exactly the same as Rimadyl what your vet want sale to you for a 8-10 times higher price.

Check what is inside the EN-Dex 8000 tablets and Google for it.

Side effects Rymadyl: http://www.srdogs.com/Pages/rimadylfr.html

Ibuprofen: http://www.safetymedical.net/ibuprofen-for-dogs-side-effects-dosage

The dosage is the important Thing!!!

[Sophon]

Yeah, the false informations from the Dogs Mafia!!! Never give cheap unregistered drugs or your dog will die!!! 555

I give now 7 years Ivermectin to my Dogs (German Sheperd Dogs) and never ever had problems.

Unbelievable but no one of my Dogs died about it!!! Hey VETs why no one died?

Ivermectin is unregistered for Dogs in Thailand (but a lot of vets give injections to dogs).

If I remember right Ivermectin/Ivermec/Ivomec is included in En-Dex 8000. So I don't want be worry.

It's the same with Ibuprofen!!! Your dog can die!! But only if you give to much and not looks about symptoms.

But the bad effects are exactly the same as Rimadyl what your vet want sale to you for a 8-10 times higher price.

Check what is inside the EN-Dex 8000 tablets and Google for it.

Side effects Rymadyl: http://www.srdogs.com/Pages/rimadylfr.html

Ibuprofen: http://www.safetymedical.net/ibuprofen-for-dogs-side-effects-dosage

The dosage is the important Thing!!!

I too give Ivermectin to our dogs and have done so without problems for years. However, some dogs have a gene mutation that makes them hypersensitive to Ivermectin, and treating them with it will cause serious medical problems and even possible death. This gene mutation is more common in the herding breeds (such as your German Shepherds), but it doesn't mean that every dog of those breeds have the gene mutation.It seems that you have been lucky that none of your dogs have the gene mutation, but that doesn't mean that everyone else will be as lucky as you.

Ivermectin is an amazing medication used to kill many different types of parasites. It’s most commonly used in monthly heartworm prevention. It is also used to treat ear mites as well as hair mites, which can cause mange. It is used to treat some internal parasites as well. Toxicity can occur if a dog is given an excessive dose of the medication (10 to 20 times the recommended dose). Additionally, certain dogs are genetically hypersensitive to the medication. In these dogs, ivermectin can pass directly to the brain and be toxic or even lethal. Sensitivity to the drug can also be seen in dogs or puppies that have overdosed on a similar medication in the past.

A genetic sensitivity to ivermectin can be seen in several breeds, but is more commonly seen in the following breeds:

Collie

Old English sheepdog

Shetland sheepdog (Sheltie)

Australian shepherd

German shepherd

Longhaired whippet

Silken windhound

Border collie

Dogs of mixed breeds that include herding breeds

This genetic sensitivity is due to a mutation in what is called the MDR1 gene. This mutant gene may make the dog more sensitive to several other medications as well. Not all individual dogs in the breeds listed above carry the mutant gene. The only way to know if an individual dog has the mutant MDR1 gene is through testing. To do the test, cells are scraped from the inside of the dog’s cheek and sent to a laboratory for genetic testing. Talk to your veterinarian if you are interested in having your dog tested.

Symptoms

If your dog has ivermectin toxicity, you may see any of the following symptoms:

Lethargy

Depression

Drooling

Vomiting

Dilated pupils

Loss of appetite

Disorientation

Tremors/Seizures

Blindness

Trouble standing

Slow heartbeat

Difficulty breathing

Coma

For more information Canine Ivermectin Toxicity.

Sophon

[isanbirder]

Just bought some more Endex for my toy poodle (about 4-5 kgs). I bought Endex6000 (shop was out of 4000), and will give her half a tablet monthly.

I had a word with the vet, who told me this time that 6000 was the dosage for a 15 kg dog. That's 400 per kg, not 600 as she said before.

Clearly there are problems with this medication, but they seem to be restricted to certain breeds, and not all dogs of those breeds. What this means is that anyone using the drug should watch his dog carefully to make sure there are no symptoms, and discontinue if they occur. The dog is highly unlikely to go blind, go into a coma or die without less severe symptoms first.

[Sophon]

Just bought some more Endex for my toy poodle (about 4-5 kgs). I bought Endex6000 (shop was out of 4000), and will give her half a tablet monthly.

I had a word with the vet, who told me this time that 6000 was the dosage for a 15 kg dog. That's 400 per kg, not 600 as she said before.

Clearly there are problems with this medication, but they seem to be restricted to certain breeds, and not all dogs of those breeds. What this means is that anyone using the drug should watch his dog carefully to make sure there are no symptoms, and discontinue if they occur. The dog is highly unlikely to go blind, go into a coma or die without less severe symptoms first.

I am no expert, but my understanding is that the gene mutation blocks the mechanism that enables the dog to "flush" the poison out of it's system. That means that it builds up in the brain and causes brain damage, and when it reaches a level where it causes symptoms the poisoning is irreversible. That means that the dog may have to live with whatever symptoms has manifested itself the rest of it's life.

That said, low dosages of Ivermectin such as used for heart worm prevention is supposed to be safe, the risk comes with higher dosages such as is used to treat mange and kill ticks. I have used Ivermectin for years to treat our own eight dogs as well as plenty of soi dogs, and never had a problem. But none of those are of the breeds that are likely to have the gene mutation. I am by no means negative towards Ivermectin, it really is a miracle drug (and very inexpensive) for treating e.g. mange and it's absolutely wonderful to see an almost hairless dog, who used to scratch itself bloody, recover and return to being a normal dog.

I have not been able to find any information on the web about how high a percentage of dogs in the at risk breeds have the mutation, so I don't know how high a risk you run by giving Ivermectin to e.g. a German Shepherd. But if you own one of the affected breeds, you should be aware of the risk and you might consider discussing the matter with a vet before starting to treat your dog with products containing Ivermectin. You might even want to get your dog checked for the gene mutation, the test doesn't seem to be prohibitively expensive and there are even home test versions available.

Sophon

[konying]

I am sorry but i do not have much trust in Vets in Thailand.

En dex is Ivermectin, what is so illegal or wrong about that?

IF anything, your Vet does not have a clue, or want you to switch over to monthly injection, so he/she can make more money out of you.

I use American licensed Vet and asked him about this just the other month, the only caution he gave was not to exceed correct dosage, because it may cause blindness.

Correct dosage should be calculated according to dogs weight and strength 4000 or 8000

Never ever had a Vet in Thailand who told me Endex or BioMac was a problem.

[snowgard]

I am sorry but i do not have much trust in Vets in Thailand.

En dex is Ivermectin, what is so illegal or wrong about that?

IF anything, your Vet does not have a clue, or want you to switch over to monthly injection, so he/she can make more money out of you.

I use American licensed Vet and asked him about this just the other month, the only caution he gave was not to exceed correct dosage, because it may cause blindness.

Correct dosage should be calculated according to dogs weight and strength 4000 or 8000

Never ever had a Vet in Thailand who told me Endex or BioMac was a problem.

I don't know it's illegal but it is not licensed as vet medical. So it's cheap and the real Vet's cannot sale it because if your dog dies you can bring they to court.

But Fact is that a lot of Vet's sale it as tablets or injection. At most the Vet's who have farang client tell that this medical is dangerous and not registered. So the rich farangs buy the expensive farangs solutions like Frontline Plus, Advantage, Advantix, ...

[konying]

I am sorry but i do not have much trust in Vets in Thailand.

En dex is Ivermectin, what is so illegal or wrong about that?

IF anything, your Vet does not have a clue, or want you to switch over to monthly injection, so he/she can make more money out of you.

I use American licensed Vet and asked him about this just the other month, the only caution he gave was not to exceed correct dosage, because it may cause blindness.

Correct dosage should be calculated according to dogs weight and strength 4000 or 8000

Never ever had a Vet in Thailand who told me Endex or BioMac was a problem.

I don't know it's illegal but it is not licensed as vet medical. So it's cheap and the real Vet's cannot sale it because if your dog dies you can bring they to court.

But Fact is that a lot of Vet's sale it as tablets or injection. At most the Vet's who have farang client tell that this medical is dangerous and not registered. So the rich farangs buy the expensive farangs solutions like Frontline Plus, Advantage, Advantix, ...

I believe all Vets have it. Either in injection form and tablet form but under different brand/name.

Endex and Bio-Mec are just generic brands.

Frontline Plus claims to help with ticks etc etc etc,from personal experience it has not worked at all.

Used it back in Australia and it was good, but in Thailand, these ticks just do not die.

Though i think it is because in Australia in all major parks councils spray the grass to eliminate ticks and other parasites, while in Thailand none of a kind.

I take my gang on daily walks to the park/lake and daily spend 30 mins at least to remove ticks.

[meatboy]

being from the valleys of wales,what about some sort of SHEEP DIP what goes into them will definately kill all parasites. and more than likely the poor dog.

[snowgard]

I buy all the time 100ml 1.5% Ivermec Bottles. They are in normal for injection. But you can give it oral together with the Food and drop it in the neck like Spot On. I need around 1 bottle the year for my four 30/40kg Dogs. Cost only 250,- Baht include shipping.

[meatboy]

I buy all the time 100ml 1.5% Ivermec Bottles. They are in normal for injection. But you can give it oral together with the Food and drop it in the neck like Spot On. I need around 1 bottle the year for my four 30/40kg Dogs. Cost only 250,- Baht include shipping.

shipped from where please.

[snowgard]

I ordered it all the time from this website: http://phimaiproduct.com/. Otherwhere you pay 70-110 THB for 10ml.

But on the Website they don't offer it anymore. Maybe you contact they with phone or email and ask about it.

I ordered in december 2013 two bottles. one finished 2 weeks ago. Price was 200,- THB for 100ml Ivermec 1.5% and 50,- THB for shipping.

Phone/Email you can find here: http://phimaiproduct.com/contactus-1.html

[meatboy]

I ordered it all the time from this website: http://phimaiproduct.com/. Otherwhere you pay 70-110 THB for 10ml.

But on the Website they don't offer it anymore. Maybe you contact they with phone or email and ask about it.

I ordered in december 2013 two bottles. one finished 2 weeks ago. Price was 200,- THB for 100ml Ivermec 1.5% and 50,- THB for shipping.

Phone/Email you can find here: http://phimaiproduct.com/contactus-1.html

many thanks sg.

[cooked]

I live in a provincial town and have no difficulties obtaining Ivermectin (Endex). I was distressed to see that some people regularly apply doses at double or more than recommended by the manufacturers. GOOGLE IT. We use, once a month, Endex 4000, one QUARTER tablet for the small ones, one half for the mut. Double dose maybe in case of emergency but not regularly. They get a manual going over every day.

Sheep dip has been suggested. Farmers use Bayticol, we apply it occasionally, it is freely available, GOOGLE IT. A lot of guess work and refusal to find out what to do on this post, we have problems for sure, but we try to stay within the guidelines of the manufacturers. One advantage of Ivermectin is that it works against fleas and worms. There is NO 100% solution, you have an animal, you have to look after it.

Sorry about the capital letters but I despair sometimes.

[isanbirder]

I live in a provincial town and have no difficulties obtaining Ivermectin (Endex). I was distressed to see that some people regularly apply doses at double or more than recommended by the manufacturers. GOOGLE IT. We use, once a month, Endex 4000, one QUARTER tablet for the small ones, one half for the mut. Double dose maybe in case of emergency but not regularly. They get a manual going over every day.

Sheep dip has been suggested. Farmers use Bayticol, we apply it occasionally, it is freely available, GOOGLE IT. A lot of guess work and refusal to find out what to do on this post, we have problems for sure, but we try to stay within the guidelines of the manufacturers. One advantage of Ivermectin is that it works against fleas and worms. There is NO 100% solution, you have an animal, you have to look after it.

Sorry about the capital letters but I despair sometimes.

I just checked the leaflet in a new packet of Endex 6000. The manufacturer's recommended doses are

2-5 kgs. 1/4 tablet

5-15 kgs 1/2 tablet

15-25 kgs 1 tablet

25-35 kgs 2 tablets

I also use Bayticol, mainly as a spray in areas where the ticks appear to be (bottom, and top, of walls, bedding, any cracks and crannies). Occasionally I also use it on the dogs. And of course the daily manual check.

[meatboy]

sunday morning i found 4small black ones on our bed[not unusual] as i spay the bed every day with chaingard.

but if we powder him kneck and belly before he goes out for his walk we dont get any.he does like to get his head in the bush when having a pee.

now has anybody used AMITRAZ we got it off the vet and is used as a spray,mixed as 1ml.to 1000ml.water.

again this bottle has farm animals aswell as dogs on the bottle.

[Keesters]

I live in a provincial town and have no difficulties obtaining Ivermectin (Endex). I was distressed to see that some people regularly apply doses at double or more than recommended by the manufacturers. GOOGLE IT. We use, once a month, Endex 4000, one QUARTER tablet for the small ones, one half for the mut. Double dose maybe in case of emergency but not regularly. They get a manual going over every day.

Sheep dip has been suggested. Farmers use Bayticol, we apply it occasionally, it is freely available, GOOGLE IT. A lot of guess work and refusal to find out what to do on this post, we have problems for sure, but we try to stay within the guidelines of the manufacturers. One advantage of Ivermectin is that it works against fleas and worms. There is NO 100% solution, you have an animal, you have to look after it.

Sorry about the capital letters but I despair sometimes.

Re GOOGLE IT. While I agree that a lot of info can be gained from Google sometimes it is hard to determine the truth. In this thread or another about dog ticks & fleas somebody recommended garlic to be added to food. I googled for this and came up with as many 'against' as 'for' results. Personally you cannot beat personal recommendations from like minded individuals. If we all relied solely upon Google or wikipedia then this forum would be dead.

[angiolo]

Hey there what about my kittens ??

[cooked]

I live in a provincial town and have no difficulties obtaining Ivermectin (Endex). I was distressed to see that some people regularly apply doses at double or more than recommended by the manufacturers. GOOGLE IT. We use, once a month, Endex 4000, one QUARTER tablet for the small ones, one half for the mut. Double dose maybe in case of emergency but not regularly. They get a manual going over every day.

Sheep dip has been suggested. Farmers use Bayticol, we apply it occasionally, it is freely available, GOOGLE IT. A lot of guess work and refusal to find out what to do on this post, we have problems for sure, but we try to stay within the guidelines of the manufacturers. One advantage of Ivermectin is that it works against fleas and worms. There is NO 100% solution, you have an animal, you have to look after it.

Sorry about the capital letters but I despair sometimes.

Re GOOGLE IT. While I agree that a lot of info can be gained from Google sometimes it is hard to determine the truth. In this thread or another about dog ticks & fleas somebody recommended garlic to be added to food. I googled for this and came up with as many 'against' as 'for' results. Personally you cannot beat personal recommendations from like minded individuals. If we all relied solely upon Google or wikipedia then this forum would be dead.

I don't recommend searching for peoples' personal experiences with products, I meant that the manufacturers will have a web site somewhere, as will various veterinary sites.

[rwill]

The vet I use said the government certification just ensures the product is authentic. I doubt there is a problem with using Endex though. I did read somewhere (maybe on the forum) that the shots are easier on the liver than the pills, something about the first pass effect. I don't know about that though. Ok. I looked up first pass effect. When certain medicines are taken orally it goes thru the liver first and gets metabolized there so less of the medication makes it into the system. In other words it reduces its potency.

I do know frontline plus, and it's thai generic versions, don't work for ticks at all.

I live near Ratchaburi and have been looking for the preventic collars. But every vet and pet supply shop I have been to don't carry them.