Derilict house on Beach Road (By HardRock)

[NanLaew]

Until such time as they pass a land use tax this is the norm for this country

Costs you basically nothing to keep land vacant, while the rest of society pays for infrastructure improvements, your investment increases in value on someone elses dime

Appropriate for a me first society and you can bet that the elite will fight tooth and nail to keep the status quo

I think there already is a fairly robust land use tax regime in place. But when you are stinking, megarich, hi-so, Thai-Chinese, you probably pay some millions of baht to some government person to make it look like you've paid your billions in taxes.

[NanLaew]

I am not surprised about the unused units, was chatting to the staff of the very small coffee counter on the 3rd floor,and was told the rent was 37K per month.

That is a bit 'paeng' isn't it? I was thinking that the increase of online computer and IT shopping options in Thailand was the main factor. The IT malls in Udon Thani are similarly challenged for full occupancy but maybe their rents are silly too.

[lonewolf99]

There are similar plots in Jomtien. One is a house on the corner of Soi 8 and Beach road with a greek style statue. There is a huge never used in my time mall further south that is basically totally empty that must have had a plan for a car park at the front.

Dare I mention ? There is a place called the Jomtien Complex...that has a multi-story car park that has never seen a car or a retail outlet...well not in the last 10 years.

Some individuals have so much money and land that they probably forget exactly what they have and where and what they might want to do with it. whilst the rest live from hand to mouth from a food cart.

[guzzi850m2]

Yep, must be one of the last few remaining large land plots that goes from Beach Road to Second Road...nice land bank I'd say. Does look a little forlorn with the seemingly abandoned house in the middle there.

What about that huge plot between north end end and middle part, it's huge man. We sometimes park our truck there when going for a beach walk (20 baht), many buses park there as well.

That also goes right up to 2'nd road, must be worth 100 mill or more, hmm way more, what is one rai on beach road worth now??

[Langsuan Man]

Until such time as they pass a land use tax this is the norm for this country

Costs you basically nothing to keep land vacant, while the rest of society pays for infrastructure improvements, your investment increases in value on someone elses dime

Appropriate for a me first society and you can bet that the elite will fight tooth and nail to keep the status quo

I think there already is a fairly robust land use tax regime in place. But when you are stinking, megarich, hi-so, Thai-Chinese, you probably pay some millions of baht to some government person to make it look like you've paid your billions in taxes.

No you are incorrect. Every attempt to pass a land use tax here in Thailand has been dropped. In most jurisdictions the tax is so low that it is not worth the trouble to collect it. The only time the government gets any money is when it is transferred / sold. Ergo let it sit and increase in value

[NanLaew]

Until such time as they pass a land use tax this is the norm for this country

Costs you basically nothing to keep land vacant, while the rest of society pays for infrastructure improvements, your investment increases in value on someone elses dime

Appropriate for a me first society and you can bet that the elite will fight tooth and nail to keep the status quo

I think there already is a fairly robust land use tax regime in place. But when you are stinking, megarich, hi-so, Thai-Chinese, you probably pay some millions of baht to some government person to make it look like you've paid your billions in taxes.

No you are incorrect. Every attempt to pass a land use tax here in Thailand has been dropped. In most jurisdictions the tax is so low that it is not worth the trouble to collect it. The only time the government gets any money is when it is transferred / sold. Ergo let it sit and increase in value

OK, I stand corrected. I must have confused the last mention of tax reform (last year?) with any actual tax reform being legislated.

That must be pretty high up on the article 44 agenda... oh wait...

[MrWorldwide]

The swamp next to View Talay has frontage onto both Beach and Second roads, and I was assured by several here that the plans have been drawn up and development is set to start 'very soon'. That was some time in 2014 ....

This is a photo I took of the block on Monday - unless you're a possum I'm guessing it's not looking like your ideal retirement accommodation as of April 2015.

Unlike the house and vacant land which is the subject of this thread, I believe the developer does own the land - I guess I must be missing something here. Several have commented that they hope the bars go under to make way for 'real businesses', leaving me wondering what this monster block between Second Road and Buakhow needs to make it viable for redevelopment. They've already ripped up a restaurant and a bar on the R-Con side of the block and it wouldnt take much to demolish the remainder of the old bar complex - perhaps it's the white elephant sitting in the middle of the block on Buakhow that has developers spooked.

If that last photo doesnt sum up the state of the Pattaya condo market at the moment, everything I've read here is a complete fabrication. I agree with suradit69 that it doesnt mean an automatic fire sale for Thai owners, but they arent all owned by Thais. Walk past the displays in Big C Extra and you wont see anyone asking for a pamphlet or looking at the deverloper's glossy vision of Utopia - interesting times ahead for Pattaya / Jomtien.

[OMGImInPattaya]

I remember when there were lots of these plots and a falangs could buy them ,oh if only we knew them what we know now

It's amusing when the market for property or real estate or whatever is down or over-suppled, all the resident farang econ experts say that sellers should rush to drop their prices. There seems to be a belief that the correct financial move is to panic and sell things at fire sale prices.

In many cases the criticism is of the Thai or Asian attitude to sit on what you own until the market is ready to pay you what you want. According to some of the Thai Visa Econ 1010 specialists, it's far better to drop asking prices and sell at a loss and then ... what?

TukCom sat empty for a number of years and shops along Pattaya Tai had little business. There were no apparent foreclosures or 50% off signs hung about. Now TukCom is booming and properties on Pattaya Tai are undoubtedly higher priced and generating higher rents. Probably a smart move for owners to wait rather than rush to sell at a loss.

In the case of the vacant land on Beach Rd., one rumor I heard was that a royal personage owns it. Have no idea if that's true, but whoever owns it has done well not to rush to make a quick profit or to panic and dispose of it when prices were lower.

Asians seem to have a different perspective on real estate than westerner's do. They'll hold onto it until they get the price they want. Which could be 10-15 years. And here, there are very low property taxes. So it's easy to do this. Back in the US, with taxes running 1-2% and higher/year. For a high end property, that adds up if you are trying to unload it. So...drop the price.

Plus, at least in the US, many have loans on the properties. Here, they are mostly held free and clear. I was in Argentina during the financial collapse. Met a doctor who said he was amazed at the foreclosures in the US. Didn't happen there as most properties had no loans against them.

Interesting the differences....

My understanding is that bankruptcy/foreclosure law in Thailand in very creditor friendly too...therefore, it can take years (up to a decade) for a bank to foreclose on a property. I'm sure those "influential" people can drag out the process even longer. So yeah, the dynamics of the real estate market are different in Thailand than in the West...but not because of any Zen-like attitude of the property owners but from man made economic/legal incentives.

[BigDamo]

It would be good to find out who actually owns this place..... All the years I've been coming to pattaya it never seems to change, which is a real shame

Someone must look after the place though?

[BigDamo]

Hi Big Damo,

The picture was taken in 1974, at that time I was using 35mm slides, I did have a lot of the transferred to disk, not sure if this was one of them, will check.

Did you manage to find that photo mate?

[Forkinhades]

// 2 Threads with same topic have been merged //

[jamesjohnsonthird]

It is probably owned by some very savvy Thai who bought it for 1000 baht many years ago and is waiting for a 100 million plus offer.

100 million baht might buy you a small piece in the back these days.

I don't know but will guess this plot is worth 900 million or so.

[NickJ]

Oran Gascar owns the place with his wife...they live in Roi et......he is 91 years old.......used to be a happening place when he was younger.....he made is money in the sixties selling shoes......he knows the value of the place but he is waiting to sell it to Hilton...

[MrWorldwide]

Oran Gascar owns the place with his wife...they live in Roi et......he is 91 years old.......used to be a happening place when he was younger.....he made is money in the sixties selling shoes......he knows the value of the place but he is waiting to sell it to Hilton...

Keyser Soze's cousin, right ? I thought I saw the family resemblance - I guess neither is getting any younger. Got to admire that kind of superhuman patience at 91 - my guess is that Paris Hilton's family are prepared to wait a little longer.

[fosseway]

Hi Big Damo,

The picture was taken in 1974, at that time I was using 35mm slides, I did have a lot of the transferred to disk, not sure if this was one of them, will check.

Did you manage to find that photo mate?

Sorry Damo,

Never did manage to find those slides.

[gk10002000]

Please install some sort of clean outdoor space/park. Doesn't have to cost billions of Thai Baht. Add lots of seats, some pre planned spots for food vendors. Let's not pave over every square inch of dirt and grass. The natural flora is so beautiful in the area. I am sure many Thais and falang would like to sit in a park and picknic, instead of on the sidewalk along the crumbling beach road walkway. The only green space left is top of the hill.

Yes I know the soi dogs could crap and pee all over the place, litter and human waste, night crime, homeless squatting are all issues, but the place can be open and not a crime haven like New York's central park was in the 60s and 70s.

[Langsuan Man]

Please install some sort of clean outdoor space/park. Doesn't have to cost billions of Thai Baht. Add lots of seats, some pre planned spots for food vendors. Let's not pave over every square inch of dirt and grass. The natural flora is so beautiful in the area. I am sure many Thais and falang would like to sit in a park and picknic, instead of on the sidewalk along the crumbling beach road walkway. The only green space left is top of the hill.

Yes I know the soi dogs could crap and pee all over the place, litter and human waste, night crime, homeless squatting are all issues, but the place can be open and not a crime haven like New York's central park was in the 60s and 70s.

Central Park is owned by the City of New York these "green " areas are owned by private individuals or companies and philanthropy is not Thainess

There is a huge area in Bangkok that is owned by the State Railway of Thailand that could rival Central Park and all they do is argue over whether or not they should turn it over to the developer's for another mega shopping mall or condo complex as if Bangkok doesn't have enough of those

[MrWorldwide]

Please install some sort of clean outdoor space/park. Doesn't have to cost billions of Thai Baht. Add lots of seats, some pre planned spots for food vendors. Let's not pave over every square inch of dirt and grass. The natural flora is so beautiful in the area. I am sure many Thais and falang would like to sit in a park and picknic, instead of on the sidewalk along the crumbling beach road walkway. The only green space left is top of the hill.

Yes I know the soi dogs could crap and pee all over the place, litter and human waste, night crime, homeless squatting are all issues, but the place can be open and not a crime haven like New York's central park was in the 60s and 70s.

Agree 100% and I believe the swamp next to VT that I posted the photo of above would be perfect, properly drained and landscaped, but its not going to happen. They didnt get too many things right on lower Suk in Bangkok, but Chuvit Garden and Benjasiri Park are standouts in a user-pays society. I believe both have the gates locked at night to stop them becoming homeless shelters and the only poo I see in Benjasiri is from the pigeons (aka rats with wings) : I think dogs are banned along with skateboards and hawkers. The last thing I would want in such a space in Pattaya would be vendors, but keeping them out could be expensive for a 'free' parkland. Still, the swamp already has massive, shady trees and there is enough room for a large number of people to enjoy themselves without it becoming a mini Walking St style crush. Proximity to Central Festival, Mike Shopping Mall (ok, ok - some people still shop there) and Beach Road, without having to endure any of the annoyances on the street - all we need now is an altruistic Thai billionaire to make it happen.

[RandomSand]

Who knows anything about the old house on beach road?

Maybe have problem with ghost.

[BigDamo]

Any old photos then guys?? 60's/70's/80's?

[rocketboybkk]

I saw a house over 10 yrs ago. Derelict. Had a for sale sign so wife phones up. I thought maybe 10-15 million. Ok.

They wanted the magic 150 million but the plot wasn't even that big! Crazy

People

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MrWorldwide]

Right, so 10 years ago you were prepared to pay 15 million baht for a derelict house in Pattaya ? Can you give us some idea of where this fabulous block of land might be situated so I can go and gaze at it's magnificence ?

[jamesjohnsonthird]

I know a land plot in Bangkok that sold in 1965 for less than 1 million baht.

Sold recently for 900 million baht.

That property increased in value around 18 million baht, every year! Nice.

Edited April 21, 2015 by jamesjohnsonthird

[rocketboybkk]

Right, so 10 years ago you were prepared to pay 15 million baht for a derelict house in Pattaya ? Can you give us some idea of where this fabulous block of land might be situated so I can go and gaze at it's magnificence ?

I can't remember but it was up Soi 1 area. Few bars, few hotels, few old houses.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BigDamo]

Shame there are no old pictures of beach road or in fact that house floating about!

[Spaniel]

I don't have any pics of the house in question but here are a few pics taken years ago of what is now Walking Street.

[MrWorldwide]

Thanks for the photos, Spaniel - while I have no doubt attitudes were much better back then, its clear that Pattaya was never going to win any design awards. Visually, I think the WS 2015 may actually be an improvement - all we need to do is get rid of the riffraff and it would be a fantastic place

[BigDamo]

Wow.... Is that the tree on walking street??

[BigDamo]

I went to have a look at this place last night and someone has cut the lawns?

[scorecard]

Fantastic thanks.... I love looking at old pictures of Pattaya as I have only been coming here for just over 10 years

First time I ever came to Pattaya was with a Thai colleague and his family in their family car, a very long time ago. The last 20 kilometers of the road (guessing) was dirt.

In those days Pattaya was a very small very simple fishing village, a few 2 star hotels and not much more, the locals all wonderful friendly, caring and sincere people.

We stayed in one of the small hotels, the owner (an old Thai lady) was so worried that she didn't know what food to try to prepare for a westerner, and it took a few meals for her to realize that all I wanted was standard Thai fare.