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British tourist kills police in crash


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Ah ......Once again the TVF members have solved the case and passed sentence on the car driver based on a very few facts in the original story.

Seems no-one has mentioned what we dont know:

did the unplated motorbike have its ( any ) lights turned on ??

What was the motorbike rider wearing ...................dark clothes or high viz clothing ?

did the motorbike actually stop mid turn to let traffic pass in the opposite direction ? probably not as no mention of any witnesses to the incident but needs to be asked.

no mention of any intoxicants in the system of either the car driver or motorbike rider ?

were their any skid marks on the road to indicate that the car brakes were applid at all

is it possible the car driver actually did not even see the motorbike until a second before impact ?

At this time we just dont know .................................................and probably never will .

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It sounds like a guy was driving along the road in his car when a complete moron pulled out in front of him without looking.

This happens every day in Hua Hin and it's a wonder I haven't scraped a few of them off my windscreen already.

Every time I go out driving I have these idiots pulling out in front of me.

What's the fine for speeding ? 400 Baht ?

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How many times have all of us who drive here had idiots at U turns pull directly into the fast lane without looking?

It's a daily occurrence and luckily I've always managed to avoid them unlike the unfortunate guy here. At U turns it is usually the person who is turning's fault.

Totally agree with you. I guess the ones condemning the Brit so fast have never driven a car in Thailand. Of course there's not enough info in this article to say who was wrong yet but I was driving around Bangkok during Songkran and every idiot was speeding, pulling in front of my car suddenly and turning all over the place across lanes like manics. If you are unlucky to get into that mess you may well drive over someone and get the blame.

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I think it is silly to assign blame at this time in the proceedings. We have no idea who's at fault and it could be that they were both in the wrong. The Brit for speeding and the Thai officer for making an ill-advised U-turn in front of an on coming car.

I hope Thai Visa will be able to update this report. Unfortunately, it seems that too often the original report is all we get. I'm not saying that this is necessarily the fault of Thai Visa. Thanks for any update if it is possible.

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Crazy Brit. You don't visit a foreign country, rent a car, and drive with reckless abandon. You don't know the roads and you are a guest.

I hope they lock up Mr. Benjamin in a Thai prison cell for a few years and not just let him go back to the island after paying off the officer's family.

My condolences to Police Lance Corporal Wiroon's family and friends. Terrible that this happens at the end of the Songkran holiday.

Who said the car was rented?

What makes him a tourist? Maybe just his visa?

The police officer's motorbike had no license plate at all

Yet, you condemn the guy to a prison sentence. What if it's found out that the car driver had not a trace of alcohol or other substance and that it was an accident at 2:40am.

Then again, i'm sure you'll find some other answers.

Just being a foreigner sealed his fate. Unless his first name is Red and the last one Bull he will be enjoying Thai's indoor hospitality for years. With a little luck he could be British moneyed gentry and thus use his credit card like a get out of jail free card. I feel sorry for the young lad on the motorbike but did he make a U turn and run into the car like the driver claims. All the facts should be on the table before we throw stones.

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just hit a dog with your cat at 90 km/h , and you ll see the face of car . you speak about something that you don't know . it's crazy .... are you all experts of what ??? and even if he was driving to quick , is that a reason to be guilty of murder ? the title say : - a brit killed a motorbike policeman driver .... KILLED ???? beter say : a motorbike policeman driver die after accident with a car . a why say that the driver is brit ??? how many expats or tourist die after accident with thai-drivers ( drunked , who takes jaba , who fall asleep , who drive crazy ) ? anyway , the brit will be guilty just cause he's farang so everybody will be happy , even you the expats . you disgusting me .

I see that you are disappointed with many of the comments made on here, so I should tell you firstly, that I've had 30 years service in law enforcement, with the last 20 as a Crash Investigator. I hope that's sufficient for me to comment on a few aspects that you have brought up? During this time I completed numerous courses required to become a certified Crash Investigator and have investigated numerous fatal motor vehicle crashes, staged accidents and serious (catastrophic) incidents.

Firstly, there are so many factors involved in investigating such matters, that I would be here all day typing. So I'll try to keep it short. One aspect that I agree with you on and conclude from the posts that many are relying on newspaper articles as a source for their comments and subsequent conclusions. Not a very wise thing to do.

You then mention speed and murder, all in the one sentence. Of course this does not relate to murder; murder in an intentional act of killing a person and although he may have been speeding, it would be most unlikely that this was his intention. There is however, a charge of manslaughter, which, once all the facts are known, could well be brought against the driver of the car. Whatever the outcome, I certainly would not like to be in his shoes.

When viewing the damage, as depicted by the photograph, one can safely say the car was being driven at a high speed, (unknown) and that impact occurred, initially on the left (nearside) of the vehicle and then worsens as it progresses backwards and rises upward toward the offside of the car. This is a good indication that impact occurred at speed, (unknown) when the cyclist was at an angle to the vehicle.

This could cause the front of the cycle to be propelled away whilst the rest of the bike continued backwards and upwards into the vehicle, with the body possibly impacting and shattering the windscreen. It also gives the impression that there was little, if any, braking at the time of initial impact. However, if there were there skid marks, then these, when combined with a number of other factors, would provide evidence as to the vehicle's speed at the time of impact.

The press release contains a version provided by the driver of the car, however, this can be neither accepted or rejected until all the evidence has been gathered which would then allow investigators to reach a conclusion, one way or another. At this time it sure beats me how anyone can conclude who is at fault or what their fate should be. Not only does it appear many are super sleuths but also want to be the judge, jury and executioner

Let's not forget the need for medicals, scene investigation, witnesses, reconstruction if needed and the numerous other factors that need to be carried out before any finding can be reached. In so far as your not liking the use of the word "Killed", nothing wrong with that as it relates to the death of a person, animal or other living thing. As for the rest, have no idea what you're on about so I'll leave it it at that.

I find your mix of experience and knowledge particularly disturbing, on this forum, and will request that you are permanently banned from posting on topics that you have expertise in.

All forum members are politely requested to disregard anything that Si Thea01 has to say here and are to continue posting in the usual fashion.

I have two words for you. Grow Up. Anyone can post what they wish, I have no say in that, and neither do you. You want me banned and for others to have no regard for what I say because my mix of experience and knowledge are particularly disturbing to you. Instead of posting without rhyme or reason, why don't you elaborate? I'm sorry if you do not accept what I have to post but that's your prerogative.

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Crazy Brit. You don't visit a foreign country, rent a car, and drive with reckless abandon. You don't know the roads and you are a guest.

I hope they lock up Mr. Benjamin in a Thai prison cell for a few years and not just let him go back to the island after paying off the officer's family.

My condolences to Police Lance Corporal Wiroon's family and friends. Terrible that this happens at the end of the Songkran holiday.

What a stupid comment ! What has his nationality got to do with it ??? I take it that since you're so upset about reckless driving that you'll be making 300 plus posts condemning the " CrazyThais ? that killed other Thais with bad driving during Songkran ??? No, didn't think so. Just another Thai ass kisser thinking that you'll be better thought of , grow up man.

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"the policeman made a u-turn at the spot suddenly, cutting into his way and making it impossible for him to stop his car in time."

It seems the motorcycle made a U turn in front of the Benz.

Were is the Brit driver at fault?

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I have seen people mentioning skidmarks, there won't be any because of ABS braking. Also almost all new vehicles are fitted with emergency braking or assisted braking systems which detect how fast the brake pedal is depressed and increase the hydraulic pressure to the brakes thus reducing the braking distance. Even so these systems cannot take the car back in time and prevent a collision. As regards the no number plate, I was under the impression that if the vehicle was supplied new then the dealership lent a red number plate until the correct one arrived from the traffic office and I've even had a red number plate from a second hand car dealer - does anyone know the rules on this?.

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just hit a dog with your cat at 90 km/h , and you ll see the face of car . you speak about something that you don't know . it's crazy .... are you all experts of what ??? and even if he was driving to quick , is that a reason to be guilty of murder ? the title say : - a brit killed a motorbike policeman driver .... KILLED ???? beter say : a motorbike policeman driver die after accident with a car . a why say that the driver is brit ??? how many expats or tourist die after accident with thai-drivers ( drunked , who takes jaba , who fall asleep , who drive crazy ) ? anyway , the brit will be guilty just cause he's farang so everybody will be happy , even you the expats . you disgusting me .

I see that you are disappointed with many of the comments made on here, so I should tell you firstly, that I've had 30 years service in law enforcement, with the last 20 as a Crash Investigator. I hope that's sufficient for me to comment on a few aspects that you have brought up? During this time I completed numerous courses required to become a certified Crash Investigator and have investigated numerous fatal motor vehicle crashes, staged accidents and serious (catastrophic) incidents.

Firstly, there are so many factors involved in investigating such matters, that I would be here all day typing. So I'll try to keep it short. One aspect that I agree with you on and conclude from the posts that many are relying on newspaper articles as a source for their comments and subsequent conclusions. Not a very wise thing to do.

You then mention speed and murder, all in the one sentence. Of course this does not relate to murder; murder in an intentional act of killing a person and although he may have been speeding, it would be most unlikely that this was his intention. There is however, a charge of manslaughter, which, once all the facts are known, could well be brought against the driver of the car. Whatever the outcome, I certainly would not like to be in his shoes.

When viewing the damage, as depicted by the photograph, one can safely say the car was being driven at a high speed, (unknown) and that impact occurred, initially on the left (nearside) of the vehicle and then worsens as it progresses backwards and rises upward toward the offside of the car. This is a good indication that impact occurred at speed, (unknown) when the cyclist was at an angle to the vehicle.

This could cause the front of the cycle to be propelled away whilst the rest of the bike continued backwards and upwards into the vehicle, with the body possibly impacting and shattering the windscreen. It also gives the impression that there was little, if any, braking at the time of initial impact. However, if there were there skid marks, then these, when combined with a number of other factors, would provide evidence as to the vehicle's speed at the time of impact.

The press release contains a version provided by the driver of the car, however, this can be neither accepted or rejected until all the evidence has been gathered which would then allow investigators to reach a conclusion, one way or another. At this time it sure beats me how anyone can conclude who is at fault or what their fate should be. Not only does it appear many are super sleuths but also want to be the judge, jury and executioner

Let's not forget the need for medicals, scene investigation, witnesses, reconstruction if needed and the numerous other factors that need to be carried out before any finding can be reached. In so far as your not liking the use of the word "Killed", nothing wrong with that as it relates to the death of a person, animal or other living thing. As for the rest, have no idea what you're on about so I'll leave it it at that.

I find your mix of experience and knowledge particularly disturbing, on this forum, and will request that you are permanently banned from posting on topics that you have expertise in.

All forum members are politely requested to disregard anything that Si Thea01 has to say here and are to continue posting in the usual fashion.

I have two words for you. Grow Up. Anyone can post what they wish, I have no say in that, and neither do you. You want me banned and for others to have no regard for what I say because my mix of experience and knowledge are particularly disturbing to you. Instead of posting without rhyme or reason, why don't you elaborate? I'm sorry if you do not accept what I have to post but that's your prerogative.

I have one word for you, S-A-R-C-A-S-M.

However, I now find your attention to detail sadly lacking. That is a trait that I thought, after your years of accident investigation, would still be apparent.

You didn't notice that I posted a like to your original comment?

Hmmm . . .

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just hit a dog with your cat at 90 km/h , and you ll see the face of car . you speak about something that you don't know . it's crazy .... are you all experts of what ??? and even if he was driving to quick , is that a reason to be guilty of murder ? the title say : - a brit killed a motorbike policeman driver .... KILLED ???? beter say : a motorbike policeman driver die after accident with a car . a why say that the driver is brit ??? how many expats or tourist die after accident with thai-drivers ( drunked , who takes jaba , who fall asleep , who drive crazy ) ? anyway , the brit will be guilty just cause he's farang so everybody will be happy , even you the expats . you disgusting me .

I see that you are disappointed with many of the comments made on here, so I should tell you firstly, that I've had 30 years service in law enforcement, with the last 20 as a Crash Investigator. I hope that's sufficient for me to comment on a few aspects that you have brought up? During this time I completed numerous courses required to become a certified Crash Investigator and have investigated numerous fatal motor vehicle crashes, staged accidents and serious (catastrophic) incidents.

Firstly, there are so many factors involved in investigating such matters, that I would be here all day typing. So I'll try to keep it short. One aspect that I agree with you on and conclude from the posts that many are relying on newspaper articles as a source for their comments and subsequent conclusions. Not a very wise thing to do.

You then mention speed and murder, all in the one sentence. Of course this does not relate to murder; murder in an intentional act of killing a person and although he may have been speeding, it would be most unlikely that this was his intention. There is however, a charge of manslaughter, which, once all the facts are known, could well be brought against the driver of the car. Whatever the outcome, I certainly would not like to be in his shoes.

When viewing the damage, as depicted by the photograph, one can safely say the car was being driven at a high speed, (unknown) and that impact occurred, initially on the left (nearside) of the vehicle and then worsens as it progresses backwards and rises upward toward the offside of the car. This is a good indication that impact occurred at speed, (unknown) when the cyclist was at an angle to the vehicle.

This could cause the front of the cycle to be propelled away whilst the rest of the bike continued backwards and upwards into the vehicle, with the body possibly impacting and shattering the windscreen. It also gives the impression that there was little, if any, braking at the time of initial impact. However, if there were there skid marks, then these, when combined with a number of other factors, would provide evidence as to the vehicle's speed at the time of impact.

The press release contains a version provided by the driver of the car, however, this can be neither accepted or rejected until all the evidence has been gathered which would then allow investigators to reach a conclusion, one way or another. At this time it sure beats me how anyone can conclude who is at fault or what their fate should be. Not only does it appear many are super sleuths but also want to be the judge, jury and executioner

Let's not forget the need for medicals, scene investigation, witnesses, reconstruction if needed and the numerous other factors that need to be carried out before any finding can be reached. In so far as your not liking the use of the word "Killed", nothing wrong with that as it relates to the death of a person, animal or other living thing. As for the rest, have no idea what you're on about so I'll leave it it at that.

I find your mix of experience and knowledge particularly disturbing, on this forum, and will request that you are permanently banned from posting on topics that you have expertise in.

All forum members are politely requested to disregard anything that Si Thea01 has to say here and are to continue posting in the usual fashion.

I have two words for you. Grow Up. Anyone can post what they wish, I have no say in that, and neither do you. You want me banned and for others to have no regard for what I say because my mix of experience and knowledge are particularly disturbing to you. Instead of posting without rhyme or reason, why don't you elaborate? I'm sorry if you do not accept what I have to post but that's your prerogative.

I think you missed the irony in his post, he's making fun of people who post without a clue of what they're talking about. That's the way I read it anyway and if what he posted was meant seriously I'm on your side.

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I have seen people mentioning skidmarks, there won't be any because of ABS braking. Also almost all new vehicles are fitted with emergency braking or assisted braking systems which detect how fast the brake pedal is depressed and increase the hydraulic pressure to the brakes thus reducing the braking distance. Even so these systems cannot take the car back in time and prevent a collision. As regards the no number plate, I was under the impression that if the vehicle was supplied new then the dealership lent a red number plate until the correct one arrived from the traffic office and I've even had a red number plate from a second hand car dealer - does anyone know the rules on this?.

You're right, you get a temporary red plate with a new vehicle.

There is no excuse for not having a plate unless someone stole either the plate or the vehicle.

You see vehicles without plates on the roads every day.

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"the policeman made a u-turn at the spot suddenly, cutting into his way and making it impossible for him to stop his car in time."

It seems the motorcycle made a U turn in front of the Benz.

Were is the Brit driver at fault?

This guy is just one of the 364 reported (so far) road fatalities during the '7 dangerous days' of Songkran.

It happens every year.

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I have two words for you. Grow Up. Anyone can post what they wish, I have no say in that, and neither do you. You want me banned and for others to have no regard for what I say because my mix of experience and knowledge are particularly disturbing to you. Instead of posting without rhyme or reason, why don't you elaborate? I'm sorry if you do not accept what I have to post but that's your prerogative.

I think you missed the irony in his post, he's making fun of people who post without a clue of what they're talking about. That's the way I read it anyway and if what he posted was meant seriously I'm on your side.

Yes Sandrabbit, you are correct.

Seems there are a lot of people here that are looking for a keyboard battle, even when you agree with what they say.

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I hope tha they lock this guy up and just throw the keys away.

I love listening to you, saint and super driver, that never disobey the rules in Thailand.

Try to read the article properly, the guy was cut off by the motorbike when the policeman made a u-turn at the spot suddenly, cutting into his way and making it impossible for him to stop his car in time.

Ask yourself, what would you have done in a situation like this?

So stop, trying to be clever and think before you post nonsense.

+1. Costas that's the second time I've agreed totally with your words!

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It is very difficult to judge anything from this short simple article. However, police officer is killed. I'm not judging the brit driver or anything, but naturally any driver would claim he is not at fault. This brit driver was speeding, an officer is dead, and extent of damage to his car, these facts are more than enough to put this man in very very bad position. One of their fellow officers is dead, I'm sure they won't go quite easy on him.

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I have seen people mentioning skidmarks, there won't be any because of ABS braking. Also almost all new vehicles are fitted with emergency braking or assisted braking systems which detect how fast the brake pedal is depressed and increase the hydraulic pressure to the brakes thus reducing the braking distance. Even so these systems cannot take the car back in time and prevent a collision. As regards the no number plate, I was under the impression that if the vehicle was supplied new then the dealership lent a red number plate until the correct one arrived from the traffic office and I've even had a red number plate from a second hand car dealer - does anyone know the rules on this?.

You're right, you get a temporary red plate with a new vehicle.

There is no excuse for not having a plate unless someone stole either the plate or the vehicle.

You see vehicles without plates on the roads every day.

I have purchased two new motorcycles over the past three years and was not given a temporary plate.

I knew of the existence of the red plates and asked about them but was told, in both cases, they weren't necessary and to just wait for the proper registration plate to arrive. I do not know what the rules are concerning red plates/no plates.

The lack of a plate on a new motorcycle was not even a concern for the police and/or military. When being stopped at a checkpoint, they were only interested in my driving credentials.

On an aside, it's when I drive a car that they get more 'interested'.

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I have seen people mentioning skidmarks, there won't be any because of ABS braking. Also almost all new vehicles are fitted with emergency braking or assisted braking systems which detect how fast the brake pedal is depressed and increase the hydraulic pressure to the brakes thus reducing the braking distance. Even so these systems cannot take the car back in time and prevent a collision. As regards the no number plate, I was under the impression that if the vehicle was supplied new then the dealership lent a red number plate until the correct one arrived from the traffic office and I've even had a red number plate from a second hand car dealer - does anyone know the rules on this?.

You're right, you get a temporary red plate with a new vehicle.

There is no excuse for not having a plate unless someone stole either the plate or the vehicle.

You see vehicles without plates on the roads every day.

I have purchased two new motorcycles over the past three years and was not given a temporary plate.

I knew of the existence of the red plates and asked about them but was told, in both cases, they weren't necessary and to just wait for the proper registration plate to arrive. I do not know what the rules are concerning red plates/no plates.

The lack of a plate on a new motorcycle was not even a concern for the police and/or military. When being stopped at a checkpoint, they were only interested in my driving credentials.

On an aside, it's when I drive a car that they get more 'interested'.

Fair enough, I had a red plate on my car for a while after I bought it, maybe there's different rules for bikes.

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Crazy Brit. You don't visit a foreign country, rent a car, and drive with reckless abandon. You don't know the roads and you are a guest.

I hope they lock up Mr. Benjamin in a Thai prison cell for a few years and not just let him go back to the island after paying off the officer's family.

My condolences to Police Lance Corporal Wiroon's family and friends. Terrible that this happens at the end of the Songkran holiday.

Who said the car was rented?

What makes him a tourist? Maybe just his visa?

The police officer's motorbike had no license plate at all

Yet, you condemn the guy to a prison sentence. What if it's found out that the car driver had not a trace of alcohol or other substance and that it was an accident at 2:40am.

Then again, i'm sure you'll find some other answers.

Condemned because the driver stated he WAS SPEEDING and couldn't stop in time. If he wasn't speeding, maybe he would have been able to. In Oz, he would be charged with culpable driving causing death and be looking down the barrel of 5-10 years in jail. As for no licence plate on the bike. using that to try to shift blame from the guilty to the innocent says more about farang attitudes to Thai deaths...or at least yours.

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I think it is silly to assign blame at this time in the proceedings. We have no idea who's at fault and it could be that they were both in the wrong. The Brit for speeding and the Thai officer for making an ill-advised U-turn in front of an on coming car.

I agree entirely. Try always to drive defensively and "speeding" is not defensive driving. How would I "guess" that the car driver was speeding? By the amount of damage to the car.

But I do wonder why the motorbike had no licence plate? Is it legal for Police to ride bikes like that? Maybe we will never know (or be told) whistling.gif

Regardless of blame, it is a road fatality nevertheless and my condolences to the Policeman's family and friends.

It has already been posted several times on this thread; new vehicles are not sold with a registration plate.

Ermm no that's not right. New vehicles are sold with a red plate. The red plate belongs to the dealer and they have to record details of the vehicle they are fitted to at any given time. It is not legal in Thailand to use a vehicle without a registration plate. Policeman or not.
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Wait a minute! Where does it say he was driving recklessly (the article does say "speeding his car", but doesn't elaborate OR necessarily imply excessive speed? That highway IS a major highway (divided, isn't it?) and not a secondary road. And where is there ANY mention of alcohol? And the article DOES say the officer made a sudden U-turn, and the Brit simply couldn't stop.

Some of you guys are a hoot; just making stuff up to fit some previous agenda. (Gee, 'wonder what that could be ...) Why not just put a lid on it and reserve the usual halfwit condemnations at least until the rest of the facts come to light? In the meantime, and above all else, RIP to the officer. This so far sounds like an accident, and not something anyone had coming to him.

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I am somewhat confused by the story and all the commentators that already pleading for the British driver to be locked up or kicked out of the country seem to know more as the story tells us.

Speeding is an expression that could mean he was driving fast but still within the speed limit and from the article I can’t see if there was a speed limit on that road. So it might be still possible that he was within the permitted speed limit.

According to the police officer investigating the accident it doesn’t say anything more that Benjamin admitted to be driving fast from his home and that an unlicensed motorbike making a sudden U-turn which gave him no chance to break and that the motorbike was driven by the victim, which was a police officer. It should now be a case for the courts to decide if Benjamin was driving too fast and how much of the guilt can be placed on the police officer that was driving an unlicensed motorbike and making the sudden U-turn.

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I cant remember but it is very built up area and is there a speed limit? usually I would never dash around Hua Hin until your out of it- far too busy. In UK we exercise caution and rarely go above 30-40 mph in such areas - but of course 40 will kill someone crossing or on bike...

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The article states the air bags deployed,,, with modern cars, (esp a MB I'd guess),,,, it's as simple as plugging it into a dealers service computer, and the CAR'S computer, will tell you exactly the speed at impact, the angle of the impact,, were the brakes being applied, how strongly, etc, etc,,, BUT,,, will anyone investigating this bother to see that through?...

Nonsense, car's computers are not "black boxes", their purpose is to control the operation of the vehicle not provide accident related information.

Buuullsheet.,,, They can,, and DO record nearly everything of relavance.. for EXACTLY this type of situation,,,, 1 for vehicle improvements,, and 2 for safety,,,,, You think MB wants this guy to get a lawyer to claim the car accelerator stuck, and the brakes failed?.... I know this for FACT,,, as I've had it happen to me in a prior accident, involving an older American car,,, My ex got into a semi-serious front end collision,,, I thought, the air bags, SHOULD have deployed... but none did,,, I asked the service department,, "WHY NOT?",,,, they plugged it in,,, pulled up the info at the time of the crash,,,, showed me on the screen,,, Speed, angle of the hit, she was on the brakes, etc, etc,,,, They explained,, that the reading were just shy of the setting parameters for the bag to deploy,,, so they didn't,, Had she been going maybe 5 MPH faster?,,,, ya,, HERS would've,,,, WHY do I say,, "HERS"??,,, because even THEN,, they were at the point where not only are there sensors in the seats to detect wether someone's sitting there... BUT can also detect wether it's a full-sized adult, of 200 lbs.... or a 10 yr old child, of 60 lbs,, THEREFORE,,, the airbag will deploy FULL strength in the case of an adult,, or partial strength in the case of a lighter,, child,,,, So YA,,,, they DO much more than just, "run the car",,,,, But again,,, there's NO convincing the much more, "educated" TVF keyboard experts,,,,, Get your facts STRAIGHT,,, before stating BS,, as IF they are facts,,,, IF this guy was in the, "right",, not drunk,, not speeding, and truly just couldn't stop,,,, The info stored in the ECM would be the FIRST thing I'd want my lawyer to get ahold of,, as proof, beyond the BIB stating, "facts",,,,, if however he was speeding, failed to brake at all?,,,, it's the LAST thing I'd want the prosecutor to have,,,

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