For asylum seekers, a novel (and odd) solution: Cambodia

[Si Thea01]

The old myth that the asylum seekers / refugees receive more benefits that Australian citizens; have a read of the following...

https://www.dss.gov.au/our-responsibilities/settlement-and-multicultural-affairs/publications/fact-sheet-98-settlement-services-for-refugees#b

Would be interested to know the safe countries that have been bypassed by these people. Certainly places such as Thailand, Indonesia & Malaysia do not permit legal access to work and integration into their societies for refugees. However, I would assume the people smugglers dictate destinations, not the asylum seekers / refugees.

If you read what I have written, you would see that I was referring to illegal immigrants, not genuine asylum seekers or refugees. I think you are knowledgeable enough to know what they receive that Australian citizens do not, so there's really no need for me to elaborate further.

Fact - All boatpeople arriving in Australian waters from Indonesia or any nation where they have been given free entry, but claiming to be refugees or asylum seekers are criminals and queue-jumpers who have conspired with other criminals to deliberately break Australian laws

Once they enter those countries, freely, then they are safe from the alleged persecution they say they are fleeing. But do they stay, of course not, they pay criminals, destroy their passports and ID papers in an effort to thwart our governments attempts in identifying them. Do honest people act in this manner?

You also indicate that they do not remain in the three countries nominated as they cannot access work, which most don't worry about seeking here either. They are also unable to access any government benefits or handouts that they can in the land of milk and honey. This alone proves that they are not genuine asylum seekers/refugees but economic refugees/criminals.

[Scott]

Some posters are making wild, exaggerated and unsubstantiated claims. Either back them up with appropriate links or cease to post. It is inflammatory and trolling.

[meltingpot2015]

From Nauru Detention Centre to Cambodia!!.

Out of the frying pan and in to the fire.

[NeverSure]

Some posters are making wild, exaggerated and unsubstantiated claims. Either back them up with appropriate links or cease to post. It is inflammatory and trolling.

Thanks. I just read some quite long posts hoping for real information and got almost none. This is an important matter right now in the world and an important topic. I learned more from Simple1's posts than I did from all of the other posts I just read.

I really wonder how (on topic) this would work with Cambodia because I've been under the belief that Cambodians have a lot of poverty themselves and a corrupt government. I enjoy going there for a couple of days but I'm thinking I live differently there than a refugee would. I can also climb on a plane and fly out to almost any country I wish including Thailand or the US and others.

I wonder what it would feel like to be broke and stuck, and I wonder what the long term prospects would be for both Cambodia and the refugees considering the cultures?

[meltingpot2015]

It's not the illegals that Australia needs to be worried about it's the thousands of legals, mainly the Chinese that are bloody well buying up everything which is lifting prices to an unachievable level for the majority of Australians. I just came back from Sydney & Nth Qld & OMG Chinese just every where. Not tourists either. It was crazy I mean I traveled on public transport & with no exaggeration I was the only Non Asian (Chinese) travelling. Not just urban areas either, they are buying a hell of a lot of agricultural land too.

Maybe these illegals could be sent as has been muted in the past to areas where the locals WONT work eg. farms that simply can't get Aussies to harvest fruit etc. It sits on the ground rotting. In Nth Queensland my home state many farm processing facilities have mostly NEW migrant workers as the local unemployed wont do it, not even when being paid $19-20 per/hour.

It was crazy I mean I traveled on public transport & with no exaggeration I was the only Non Asian (Chinese) travelling.

No one should be allowed to feel strange in their own country. (Particularly so for older folks...who may not be tech savvy like the younger folk)

We can only imagine what those aborigines and Native American's felt all those years ago. Still that's all in the past. Also, the settlers never used the aborigine built schools, hospitals and roads, so its not the same.

[simple1]

Some posters are making wild, exaggerated and unsubstantiated claims. Either back them up with appropriate links or cease to post. It is inflammatory and trolling.

Thanks. I just read some quite long posts hoping for real information and got almost none. This is an important matter right now in the world and an important topic. I learned more from Simple1's posts than I did from all of the other posts I just read.

I really wonder how (on topic) this would work with Cambodia because I've been under the belief that Cambodians have a lot of poverty themselves and a corrupt government. I enjoy going there for a couple of days but I'm thinking I live differently there than a refugee would. I can also climb on a plane and fly out to almost any country I wish including Thailand or the US and others.

I wonder what it would feel like to be broke and stuck, and I wonder what the long term prospects would be for both Cambodia and the refugees considering the cultures?

IMO your last paragraph is a good question. Whilst the Cambodian government official policies do not descriminate against the Muslim population, the impression I got was descrimination within society does exist. From media reports there have been locals protesting against admitting the refugees into Cambodia. The Pol Pot regime was more aggressive in it's genocidal actions towards the local Muslims than other groups. These facts would likely not create a feel good atmosphere for potential transferees.

As Scott has commented there is a real potential for the refugeees to live in the shadows of society with all the angst that scenario could cause.

[steven100]

From Nauru Detention Centre to Cambodia!!.

Out of the frying pan and in to the fire.

Your comment is baseless ....How can you say that ? they are going from a refugee detention centre into permanent structured accomodation. Terrace Villas with garden etc ... They will get free education, medical, transport and documentation for citizenship ....

This is a good deal for helping refugees ... what would you prefer ? give them a penthouse on the GC ?

These are refugees from Nauru. They will be given free housing in a Villa type structure far better than many Cambodians get or they would get anywhere else in the world.

They will receive free medical, they will receive citizenship which make them eligible to get free education, transport and many other benefits. They will be offered jobs.

Anyone who thinks this is not a good idea doesn't know the facts and doesn't know what they are talking about. A refugee and family can have all this or go back to where they came from ... ? what would you do .. ?

it's the human rights advocates who just want to make trouble and don't realize the facts.

Stop the damn boats !!!!

[Scott]

It may be a good or it may not. There are several factors to consider, first is the needs of the the host country. It's not a good idea to resettle people in a country that cannot accommodate the needs of the refugees. A country like Cambodia has a great deal of problems providing for its own people. This is not just a matter of money, it is a matter of the resources being able to take care of them.

Many of the Asian countries tend to be xenophobic and integration will be very difficult. Resettlement countries generally have societies that are open, flexible and accepting. Asian countries are less this way. Cambodia's social fabric was decimated by the years of war and displacement of the people.

IMO, for the money they could probably buy a province in Afghanistan and set up a separate facility for refugees -- and yes I am being facetious.

On the bright side, at least the Australian government is not forcing genuine refugees to return. It will be very interesting to follow the situation with those that move to Cambodia.

[simple1]

From Nauru Detention Centre to Cambodia!!.

Out of the frying pan and in to the fire.

Your comment is baseless ....How can you say that ? they are going from a refugee detention centre into permanent structured accomodation. Terrace Villas with garden etc ... They will get free education, medical, transport and documentation for citizenship ....

This is a good deal for helping refugees ... what would you prefer ? give them a penthouse on the GC ?

These are refugees from Nauru. They will be given free housing in a Villa type structure far better than many Cambodians get or they would get anywhere else in the world.

They will receive free medical, they will receive citizenship which make them eligible to get free education, transport and many other benefits. They will be offered jobs.

Anyone who thinks this is not a good idea doesn't know the facts and doesn't know what they are talking about. A refugee and family can have all this or go back to where they came from ... ? what would you do .. ?

it's the human rights advocates who just want to make trouble and don't realize the facts.

Stop the damn boats !!!!

Please provide the link/s for your claims. I have provided one below that contradicts you in areas of detail. e.g....

The package includes help finding work (not offers), and access to education, language training and health insurance for four years.

On arrival in Phnom Penh, refugees would be provided free “villa-style accommodation,” or “in the style of a serviced-apartment” for three months. After that, refugees would receive rental support “for up to 12 months, and longer if you need it,” the document said.

Refugees could apply for Cambodian citizenship after seven years (not guaranted), and children born within that time would be recognised as Cambodian nationals.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/immigration/nauru-refugees-to-fly-to-resettle-in-cambodia/story-fn9hm1gu-1227306528092

[meltingpot2015]

From Nauru Detention Centre to Cambodia!!.

Out of the frying pan and in to the fire.

Your comment is baseless ....How can you say that ? they are going from a refugee detention centre into permanent structured accomodation. Terrace Villas with garden etc ... They will get free education, medical, transport and documentation for citizenship ....

This is a good deal for helping refugees ... what would you prefer ? give them a penthouse on the GC ?

These are refugees from Nauru. They will be given free housing in a Villa type structure far better than many Cambodians get or they would get anywhere else in the world.

They will receive free medical, they will receive citizenship which make them eligible to get free education, transport and many other benefits. They will be offered jobs.

Anyone who thinks this is not a good idea doesn't know the facts and doesn't know what they are talking about. A refugee and family can have all this or go back to where they came from ... ? what would you do .. ?

it's the human rights advocates who just want to make trouble and don't realize the facts.

Stop the damn boats !!!!

Clearly my comments have hit a nerve, because they are true.

Otherwise there wouldn't be so much chest-beating.

Look, the Oz immigration minister Peter Dutton has already been caught out on Television lying to the Australian Public, saying refugees can "move forward and begin the next phase of their lives in a country that is free from persecution".

A refugee and family can have all this or go back to where they came from ... ?

The fact is they Cannot. They cannot go back to where they came from, that's how come they are refugees. Just take a brief moment to see what a refugee is.

don't realize the facts

What you have mentioned in your posts (the accommodation, free education, medical care) are not facts, they are pledges that a minister (who already has been caught out by the media building castles in the sky) has spewed out. These "facts" are currently not in place. He has lost credibility with his dubious statements. If you call something a fact, please corroborate what you say with evidence, like the moderators here on TV have said.

Also, you only seem to take in to account things like Accommodation, healthcare, transport. What about Cambodia's legal system, corruption record. It is because of these things (happening in the refugee's country of origin) that they have become refugees. While they await their claims to be processed they would have gone through more of the same abuses, because let's face it, Nauru detention centre isn't a bed of roses either. Hence, my claim in post #33.

Also, whats with the mantra "stop the damn boats". You seem to be signing off each post with this.

Fact: Just because you repeat something often enough, it does not become reality.

This post is about Resettlement of refugees, who have gone through a legal process and have been declared as Refugees under law (whether it was through due process is questionable. some claims take years to process)

By repeating the mantra "stop the damn boats" you have made it clear that this resettlement plan with Cambodia is associated (linked) to the "stop the damn boats" programme. If you stop all the boats then you would not need such a programme. So, is Australia saying there are no genuine refugees arriving by boat?. Clearly there are, those due to be resettled in Cambodia. (they were asylum seekers that arrived by boat and have now been declared refugees)

Those arriving by boat are the most vulnerable of those refugees. If you were given the choice between taking a perilous journey on a ricketey boat or taking a plane jouney, which one would you opt for?. They opt for the boat journey because they cannot afford, or their lives are at such risk (cannot obtain the necessary documents, or they feel their lives are risk heading out of the country via the usual method. i.e. by plane)

What refugee (someone suffering persecution in their own country) would embark on a perilous boat journey to Australia, when they are told that they would be "resettled" in Cambodia. A country that has a worse record on extra-judicial killings and torture.

You don't need to be a humans right advocate to realize these. They are facts. Take the time to look them-up:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Cambodia

[JockPieandBeans]

The fact is they Cannot. They cannot go back to where they came from, that's how come they are refugees. Just take a brief moment to see what a refugee is.

Yes. There are definitely a lot of people who cannot distinguish between genuine Refugee's and Economic Migrants / Illegal immigrants.

The minute you pay a gangster / racketeer / people smuggler money to be smuggled into a Country you are NOT a refugee. Dress it up any way you like, you are ILLEGAL.

The following link pertains to the EU but is equally applicable to Australia and anywhere else.

Under EU rules migrants have to apply for asylum in the first European country they enter. If they arrive in a different EU country they risk being sent back to Italy.

But the migrants I spoke to said they wanted to go to Britain, Germany or Holland, and wanted to avoid fingerprinting so they couldn't be sent back.

They always say 'no police no police' because they are afraid of them. They don't want to be identified - for them it is an important thing because if they are not identified they can go where they want. That's how it works."

http://news.sky.com/story/1472299/migrants-moving-on-due-to-lack-of-fingerprinting

This is how organised this procession of Illegals are. It would also not surprise me if there is lawyers involved in the scam due to the knowledge that these people have of EU law and how to circumvent it.

[meltingpot2015]

@JockPieandBeans in reply to #42 -
Post above removed due to message: You have posted more than the allowed number of quoted blocks of text

The 'illegal' tag, like you say is a way of dressing it up. Its a way of scare-mongering. The word 'illegal' (in Caps or not) is used to scare..they are 'illegal' immigrants, because they have broken the law. If we let them in, they will rob, steal, pillage from us.

There is no question of legality, for a 'genuine' refugee. They are fleeing a life and death situation. Would you like to see a fire-engine driver charged for speeding when attempting to reach the scene of a fire??. All these tags like 'queue-jumpers', 'illegals', 'boat people' are meant to stigmatize.

The minute you pay a gangster / racketeer / people smuggler money to be smuggled into a Country you are NOT a refugee.

How do you suggest a genuine refugee should flee from persecution?. Are you suggesting they build their own raft, using wood collected from the neighborhood?

The following link pertains to the EU but is equally applicable to Australia and anywhere else.

http://news.sky.com/story/1472299/migrants-moving-on-due-to-lack-of-fingerprinting

Those interviewed on the link above are economic migrants they are not refugees. Genuine refugees settle at the first port of disembarkation, unless of course they suffer persecution there also. As those travelling from Indonesia to Australia.

It would also not surprise me if there is lawyers involved in the scam due to the knowledge that these people have of EU law and how to circumvent it.

Cannot pin this on a group of lawyers, I am afraid. The big money is where the million dollar contracts are. The detention center facility contracts, 'stop the boats' deals and resettlement deals.

[steven100]

From Nauru Detention Centre to Cambodia!!.

Out of the frying pan and in to the fire.

while I respect your opinion .... I completely disagree with it. ( it's your choice to be on the advocates side ) nothing wrong with having an opposing opinion ... every country has a minority ..

These refugees are being given an opportunity to live in Cambodia with most things provided and your saying it's not good enough.

Maybe you can nominate to have a few move into your street & neighborhood or volunteer to take a few into your home ... would that satisfy you ?

I am not ashamed to admit I hate people smugglers as they are nothing but crooks and the so called refugees are not refugees if they can afford to pay smugglers .... if you want to come to Australia or any EU country then buy a plane ticket instead of the boat ticket ..... come in the legal way and not by Mohammad's shoddy ocean cruises Ltd. lol !!

[JockPieandBeans]

There is no question of legality, for a 'genuine' refugee. They are fleeing a life and death situation. Would you like to see a fire-engine driver charged for speeding when attempting to reach the scene of a fire??. All these tags like 'queue-jumpers', 'illegals', 'boat people' are meant to stigmatize

I suggest that you research a bit more if you really think all these people are fleeing life and death situations. Of course, it makes utter sense for a sub Saharan African to travel to Libya to get on a boat. Libya being a wonderful peaceful Country at this moment in time. Furthermore, trying working with real refugees, the difference is black and white. I am not stigmatizing anyone, merely calling them for what they are. Illegal Immigrants.

How do you suggest a genuine refugee should flee from persecution?. Are you suggesting they build their own raft, using wood collected from the neighbourhood?

There is UN sponsored refugee camps all over Africa. This is where real refugees head for. You really should try educating yourself.

Those interviewed on the link above are economic migrants they are not refugees. Genuine refugees settle at the first port of disembarkation, unless of course they suffer persecution there also. As those travelling from Indonesia to Australia.

Try educating yourself on where these people travel from to get to Indonesia before the onward journey to Australia. Yes the are economic migrants. Which is totally different from refugee's. That is the crux of the problem. There are ways and means of legally becoming an economic migrant. The majority of these people probably do not meet the criteria to become legal economic migrants, instead, they pay people to smuggle them, which makes them Illegal Immigrants.

Cannot pin this on a group of lawyers, I am afraid. The big money is where the million dollar contracts are. The detention center facility contracts, 'stop the boats' deals and resettlement deals.

That may well be the case. Lawyers will be involved somewhere in the case I linked. Otherwise, where would, in a lot of cases, semi literate people get the required knowledge to circumvent EU law from ?

Of course, in Alice in Wonderland. There is no such thing as a bent Lawyer.

[meltingpot2015]

@Steven100:

if you want to come to Australia or any EU country then buy a plane ticket instead of the boat ticket ..... come in the legal way

At the risk of repetition. Please read post #40, the part repeated below:

Those arriving by boat are the most vulnerable of those refugees. If you were given the choice between taking a perilous journey on a ricketey boat or taking a plane jouney, which one would you opt for?. They opt for the boat journey because they cannot afford, or their lives are at such risk (cannot obtain the necessary documents, or they feel their lives are risk heading out of the country via the usual method. i.e. by plane)

You say:

I am not ashamed to admit I hate people smugglers ..

There is outside interference (collusion) detected in this discussion. I recently made the following comment on my facebook page:

There is nothing shameful about saying "don't know to something you actually don't know". Telling us a porkies, on the other hand, is just shameless.

The above comment on facebook was only shared With Friends. It was not made public.

You should only use comments made within THIS Forum.

[meltingpot2015]

@JockPieAndBeans:

You cannot resort to ignorance is bliss on this. You are confusing Economic Migrant, Illegal Immigrant, Asylum Seeker and Refugee.

Of course, in Alice in Wonderland. There is no such thing as a bent Lawyer.

You forgot. In the land of a looney Tunes alliance of druids and trots, not just alice in Wonderland.

All I was saying was that this cannot be pinned to one profession. i.e lawyers. Also, its just bad form to call a whole profession as "bent".

BTW, you don't need fall down a rabbit hole to see what is going on...Just follow the money.

[JockPieandBeans]

@JockPieAndBeans:

You cannot resort to ignorance is bliss on this. You are confusing Economic Migrant, Illegal Immigrant, Asylum Seeker and Refugee.

Of course, in Alice in Wonderland. There is no such thing as a bent Lawyer.

You forgot. In the land of a looney Tunes alliance of druids and trots, not just alice in Wonderland.

All I was saying was that this cannot be pinned to one profession. i.e lawyers.

BTW, you don't need fall down a rabbit hole to see what is going on...Just follow the money.

This is your quote.

The fact is they Cannot. They cannot go back to where they came from, that's how come they are refugees. Just take a brief moment to see what a refugee is.

The ignorance is on your part, not mine. That is why you ignored the important part of my post and focused on the tongue in cheek part that cannot be proven.

It is you that cannot grasp the difference between a Refugee / Economic Migrant and Illegal Immigrant.

Your posts on this thread confirms that.

I did not say it was down to one profession. You did.

Here is the important part of my post, that you gave a wide berth.

I suggest that you research a bit more if you really think all these people are fleeing life and death situations. Of course, it makes utter sense for a sub Saharan African to travel to Libya to get on a boat. Libya being a wonderful peaceful Country at this moment in time. Furthermore, trying working with real refugees, the difference is black and white. I am not stigmatizing anyone, merely calling them for what they are. Illegal Immigrants.

There is UN sponsored refugee camps all over Africa. This is where real refugees head for. You really should try educating yourself.

Try educating yourself on where these people travel from to get to Indonesia before the onward journey to Australia. Yes the are economic migrants. Which is totally different from refugee's. That is the crux of the problem. There are ways and means of legally becoming an economic migrant. The majority of these people probably do not meet the criteria to become legal economic migrants, instead, they pay people to smuggle them, which makes them Illegal Immigrants.

You wish to try again ?

[meltingpot2015]

From Nauru Detention Centre to Cambodia!!.

Out of the frying pan and in to the fire.

while I respect your opinion .... I completely disagree with it. ( it's your choice to be on the advocates side ) nothing wrong with having an opposing opinion ... every country has a minority ..

These refugees are being given an opportunity to live in Cambodia with most things provided and your saying it's not good enough.

Maybe you can nominate to have a few move into your street & neighborhood or volunteer to take a few into your home ... would that satisfy you ?

I am not ashamed to admit I hate people smugglers as they are nothing but crooks and the so called refugees are not refugees if they can afford to pay smugglers .... if you want to come to Australia or any EU country then buy a plane ticket instead of the boat ticket ..... come in the legal way and not by Mohammad's shoddy ocean cruises Ltd. lol !!

if you want to come to Australia or any EU country then buy a plane ticket instead of the boat ticket ..... come in the legal way

You should tell this to the Migrants from Syria (Economic Migrants and Asylum Seekers be they Illegal Immigrants or Refugees). But before doing so. Please visit:

http://www.skyscanner.co.th/ or any plane ticket booking site and put Damascus (or Syria) in the "From" box then put any destination. Actually you may want to put a date say two weeks from now, you know how planes get booked-up in high-season.

How did that go??. Any luck?.

If you didn't have any luck visit:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damascus_International_Airport

while you are at it, visit a consular affairs website and search for Syria. Any one will do. Here is an example:

http://travel.state.gov/content/passports/english/alertswarnings/syria-travel-warning.html

Would you now like to repeat what you said to a Syrian intending to leave Syria?. don't forget the wink and the thumbs-up for added effect.

[steven100]

From Nauru Detention Centre to Cambodia!!.

Out of the frying pan and in to the fire.

while I respect your opinion .... I completely disagree with it. ( it's your choice to be on the advocates side ) nothing wrong with having an opposing opinion ... every country has a minority ..

These refugees are being given an opportunity to live in Cambodia with most things provided and your saying it's not good enough.

Maybe you can nominate to have a few move into your street & neighborhood or volunteer to take a few into your home ... would that satisfy you ?

I am not ashamed to admit I hate people smugglers as they are nothing but crooks and the so called refugees are not refugees if they can afford to pay smugglers .... if you want to come to Australia or any EU country then buy a plane ticket instead of the boat ticket ..... come in the legal way and not by Mohammad's shoddy ocean cruises Ltd. lol !!

if you want to come to Australia or any EU country then buy a plane ticket instead of the boat ticket ..... come in the legal way

You should tell this to the Migrants from Syria (Economic Migrants and Asylum Seekers be they Illegal Immigrants or Refugees). But before doing so. Please visit:

http://www.skyscanner.co.th/ or any plane ticket booking site and put Damascus (or Syria) in the "From" box then put any destination. Actually you may want to put a date say two weeks from now, you know how planes get booked-up in high-season.

How did that go??. Any luck?.

If you didn't have any luck visit:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damascus_International_Airport

while you are at it, visit a consular affairs website and search for Syria. Any one will do. Here is an example:

http://travel.state.gov/content/passports/english/alertswarnings/syria-travel-warning.html

Would you now like to repeat what you said to a Syrian intending to leave Syria?. don't forget the wink and the thumbs-up for added effect.

lol ...... you have your opinion and we have ours ! .. but you didn't answer my question : Maybe you can nominate to have a few move into your street & neighborhood or volunteer to take a few into your home ... would that satisfy you ?

haha .... I thought not .....

[meltingpot2015]

Please take a few moments to read the link below:

http://www.philosophersbeard.org/2015/04/will-we-be-able-to-justify.html

It will give you some insight about the reasons someone would chose to applaud a 'stop the damn boats policy'. Pay particular attention to:

We who are lucky enough to be citizens of rich countries are understandably reluctant to live up to our moral standards once we realise the full scale of what that would require. Yet we don't want to admit that we can't have our cake and eat it too, that we can't think of ourselves as good Samaritans while studiously evading the opportunity to help others.

It is particularly hard to avoid recognising ourselves for what we are if we are directly confronted by people in need asking for our help. For then we would have to tell them to their face that, actually, we don't care enough about them to want to help. So just as we might cross the street to avoid the pleading gaze of a beggar, we instruct our governments to protect us from being put into that morally compromising situation.

You've said in post #49, that you are entitled to your opinion..you guessed it there is more about this @:

https://theconversation.com/no-youre-not-entitled-to-your-opinion-9978

so, keeping to the spirit of the article above, if I can ask you why you support stopping people arriving by boat at the Australian shores.

To answer your questions in post #49, Yes!, of course I would, if the place I had stayed in Australia was capable of housing a refugee. (and if I was allowed to house a refugee...of course, there are instances when people house "refugees" where there is internecine violence within their own country, putting their own lives at risk..e.g. Rwanda..Hutu's have often helped Tutsi's hide in their own homes, but I think what we are talking about here is different, because once the asylum seeker/refugee is in Australia they are safe) Still, I would need the assistance of the Australian government. I think your intentions are genuine enough, but we (as citizens and civil society) cannot do the same thing a government does. Please see:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Society