Minimum wage 'not enough for daily expenses'

[trogers]

Yes, the idea is great, but reality is it has simply served to keep wages at the bottom end of the market stagnant to the benefit of employers.

I am working in London right now and wages are rock bottom with them being taken up by immigrants. If the point of the British economy is to serve British people, this is a market failure of massive proportion which no one acknowledges.

The wages would have risen to attract workers but instead the supply is endless for low end workers. Very wrong in my opinion.

Same in the US

The unfortunate situation is that many Employers do not want to use this illegal labor but if they want to stay competitive with those who do, many times they have to.

it is a vicious cycle resulting in a race to the bottom

removed posts to allow reply

The alternative is to follow Japan, a country that limits immigrants. See how your expectations would work in a country of aging population and negative population growth.

My reply was not in reference to immigration,but rather to illegal immigration

legal immigration is done in an orderly fashion, with quotas, medical screening, etc ,and as you said can address certain deficiencies in a society

The problem is illegal immigration, it has no safeguards for the host society or for the immigrants

PS: the minimum wage should be adjusted yearly to keep pace with inflation,

Then, follow Singapore on how they treat those who employ or house the illegals.

Also note, wage adjustments in Singapore follows productivity, not inflation, else they would be paying their people S$5 an hour spinning toilet rolls.

[SiSePuede419]

100B a day in America is not enough for the "Hundredaires", who think they are in the top 1%.

As asked previously. can you outline how one in the USA lives on such a budget.

I could, but it's not worth the effort. I've talked to many small minded people in my life and the universal rule is that the smaller the mind, the more certain that everything they believe is correct.

If you want to do your homework to prepare yourself for this knowledge, first watch this movie:

Do these people look like they're starving? Deprived? "Missing out" on something? In prison? On welfare?

Of course, the average Farang on TVF would see this and say, "I can't live that way because blah, blah, blah..".

Of course you can't. Because " blah blah blah" is an internal limitation 100% created by your mind.

And your mind is the biggest impediment to living on 100B/day in America. Or 350B/day in Thailand.

Edited May 4, 2015 by SiSePuede419

[sirineou]

The alternative is to follow Japan, a country that limits immigrants. See how your expectations would work in a country of aging population and negative population growth.

My reply was not in reference to immigration,but rather to illegal immigration

legal immigration is done in an orderly fashion, with quotas, medical screening, etc ,and as you said can address certain deficiencies in a society

The problem is illegal immigration, it has no safeguards for the host society or for the immigrants

PS: the minimum wage should be adjusted yearly to keep pace with inflation,

Then, follow Singapore on how they treat those who employ or house the illegals.

Also note, wage adjustments in Singapore follows productivity, not inflation, else they would be paying their people S$5 an hour spinning toilet rolls.

I will plead ignorance,

In Singapore they peg minimum wage increases, on productivity? That's odd

[Don Mega]

100B a day in America is not enough for the "Hundredaires", who think they are in the top 1%.

As asked previously. can you outline how one in the USA lives on such a budget.

I could, but it's not worth the effort. I've talked to many small minded people in my life and the universal rule is that the smaller the mind, the more certain that everything they believe is correct.

If you want to do your homework to prepare yourself for this knowledge, first watch this movie:

https://youtu.be/i4nUkZdYp5g

Do these people look like they're starving? Deprived? "Missing out" on something? In prison? On welfare?

Of course, the average Farang on TVF would see this and say, "I can't live that way because blah, blah, blah..".

Of course you can't. Because " blah blah blah" is an internal limitation 100% created by your mind.

And your mind is the biggest impediment to living on 100B/day in America. Or 350B/day in Thailand.

So what you are saying is that you cannot go into more detail because you either simply do not know or more likely you are talking out your behind.

[trogers]

The alternative is to follow Japan, a country that limits immigrants. See how your expectations would work in a country of aging population and negative population growth.

My reply was not in reference to immigration,but rather to illegal immigration

legal immigration is done in an orderly fashion, with quotas, medical screening, etc ,and as you said can address certain deficiencies in a society

The problem is illegal immigration, it has no safeguards for the host society or for the immigrants

PS: the minimum wage should be adjusted yearly to keep pace with inflation,

Then, follow Singapore on how they treat those who employ or house the illegals.

Also note, wage adjustments in Singapore follows productivity, not inflation, else they would be paying their people S$5 an hour spinning toilet rolls.

I will plead ignorance,

In Singapore they peg minimum wage increases, on productivity? That's odd

Why? I had sat in a taxis there once and the driver was a stockbroker before taking this new career path.

[micmichd]

Productivity sounds good, but it's not that easy.

What about the productivity of Thai women, measured in the amount of children they raise to keep the supply of fresh labour force in the next generation?

Capitalist economy would say "That's not our problem", but that's not true.

Fact is: Thailand is already running short of labour force now, in another thread they are already complaining about this.

Get used to the idea that you need an international welfare system to cope with this (not so new) challenge, and the days of simply taking other nations' women or land are over.

Edited May 4, 2015 by micmichd

[SiSePuede419]

"So what you are saying is that you cannot go into more detail because you either simply do not know or more likely you are talking out your behind."

BINGO! You're too closed minded to watch a short video clip. That's exactly why I'm not interested in sharing knowledge with small minded Farangs. I got better things to do with my time.

Edited May 4, 2015 by SiSePuede419

[Don Mega]

I watch tiny house nation on the TV every second night, I do not need to watch you video clip.

Besides which living in a tiny house does not equal your claims of living on $3.00 per day.

Anywho you just keep your narrow mind closed so that we can learn from your claims.

Edited May 4, 2015 by Don Mega

[blazes]

100B a day in America is not enough for the "Hundredaires", who think they are in the top 1%.

As asked previously. can you outline how one in the USA lives on such a budget.

I could, but it's not worth the effort. I've talked to many small minded people in my life and the universal rule is that the smaller the mind, the more certain that everything they believe is correct.

If you want to do your homework to prepare yourself for this knowledge, first watch this movie:

Do these people look like they're starving? Deprived? "Missing out" on something? In prison? On welfare?

Of course, the average Farang on TVF would see this and say, "I can't live that way because blah, blah, blah..".

Of course you can't. Because " blah blah blah" is an internal limitation 100% created by your mind.

And your mind is the biggest impediment to living on 100B/day in America. Or 350B/day in Thailand.

It's true that the human mind can indeed adapt itself to all sorts of crummy conditions. Look at medieval monks and their narrow life, materially, but (so they claim) with a spiritual opening to the universe (to compensate for the shit they were living in).

Or take someone who has been on death row for the last 23 years....

Eventually we get used to anything, including the narrowest house of all, our coffins.

What is blandly shown in this video is offered as the best thing since sliced bread, and yet is merely another addition to the trailer trash existence of so many in the US of A.

These smug "environmentalists" (or Browny-Greens) seem to have not the faintest inkling of what an aesthetically pleasing environment might look like.

But go, my friend, and stick your small butt in one of these "houses".

[blazes]

Pee ess: Why not hold up for our admiration all those poor schmucks in America who has now forced to sleep in their cars and shower (if they're lucky) in a public park? Do they need to expand their petty minds and be thankful for their $3 per day (after foodstamps and all the rest of the handouts are taken into account)?

"Se puede"? [Mexican are you?] Yes, it can be done, but who the <deleted> would want to do it, really?

[SiSePuede419]

"But go, my friend, and stick your small butt in one of these "houses""

Said the close minded pinhead on TVF, 555.

My house in America is 110 square feet and I have a 180 degree snow-capped mountain view. Does your house have a "view"? Of course it doesn't. Because you're an posh wannabe. ?

Furthermore, I'm guessing the inside of your "McMansion" (that your tiny brain feels it MUST have..to make you feel "impotent") is bland white, 555.

Just like it's owner...

Edited May 4, 2015 by SiSePuede419

[trogers]

Read this article and post your views:

http://www.thesmartlocal.com/read/minimum-wage-in-singapore

[micmichd]

"But go, my friend, and stick your small butt in one of these "houses""

Said the close minded pinhead on TVF, 555.

My house in America is 110 square feet and I have a 180 degree snow-capped mountain view. Does your house have a "view"? Of course it doesn't. Because you're an posh wannabe. ?

Furthermore, I'm guessing the inside of your "McMansion" (that your tiny brain feels it MUST have..to make you feel "impotent") is bland white, 555.

Just like it's owner...

Thank you for the deep insight into your thoughts about money and sex.

So, your big big house is a phallus substitute...

[micmichd]

Re Article about Singapore.

#1: Not true for Thailand. Increase in Thai minimum wage didn't lead to unemployment.

#2: If minimum wage follows inflation or productivity (whichever highest), then a rise should be able if one of the two input variables rise. Additional variables, of course.

#3: Wages could be improved by additional bonus wages, dependent on enterprise and personal performance. Then the (maybe narrowing) bandwidth between minimum and maximum (permanent) wages would still leave way for incentives.

Still, the problem remains that companies only pay for labour and leave investments in human capital (children, education) to society. The "farang as sponsor" welfare model seems not to work so well anymore now that the West faces an economic crisis again.

Edited May 4, 2015 by micmichd

[Fat Haggis]

as if it's only Thais who don't know how to manage their money

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/05/the-danger-of-financial-ignorance-do-you-understand-money/361851/?utm_source=SFFB

[trogers]

as if it's only Thais who don't know how to manage their money

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/05/the-danger-of-financial-ignorance-do-you-understand-money/361851/?utm_source=SFFB

Problem is over 60% of Thais would tell you the following answers:

1. I have less than a 100 baht in the account because ATMs don't give less than 100 baht

2. I don't make interest, I pay interest on my debts

3. What is stock? I buy lottery, and bet on 2 digits...

[Thai at Heart]

Minimum should be a limit not a target

Correct, and the situation is exactly the same in the UK. Hundreds of thousands of immigrants from Romania, Bulgaria, Poland and other countries (legal, unlike in Thailand with the illegals from Myanmar etc) come into UK and will do jobs for less than minimum wage.

This makes it impossible for native British unskilled labour to find work or to do work at a living wage.

God alone knows how the immigrants mentioned manage to live on their slave wages....but we can easily assume that business-owners are laughing all the way to the bank.

Only UKIP seems to be campaigning with this race-to-the-bottom in wages as a part of their platform.

"God alone knows how the immigrants mentioned manage to live on their slave wages.."

I would suggest that many of the immigrants that you are talking about are in a far better position in the UK than in their own countries. I know this for a fact as I once had 3 tenants from Eastern Europe rent my house (2 sisters one of which had a boyfriend), and they were all employed working on the production line at a national tyre producing company who had a factory in our area. The sister without the boyfriend had been a detective sergeant in the police force, the other sister had been working as a receptionist in a lawyer's office. I am unsure as to the previous occupation of the boyfriend, but they were all adamant that they were much better off working in the UK than they were "at home". A similar situation involved car mechanics from Poland - they were far better off financially in the UK than in Poland, but apparently the situation has now been reversed as Poland were running out of qualified car mechanics, and had to increase their wages substantially, which in turn led to the aforementioned Poles doing an about turn and returning to Poland.

The immigrants that you are talking about are probably illegals, and yes they do get exploited, but as I said earlier, probably they are better off in the UK than their own countries, and if they cannot find work, then the good old British Government will make sure that they are amply catered for.

Yes, the idea is great, but reality is it has simply served to keep wages at the bottom end of the market stagnant to the benefit of employers.

I am working in London right now and wages are rock bottom with them being taken up by immigrants. If the point of the British economy is to serve British people, this is a market failure of massive proportion which no one acknowledges.

The wages would have risen to attract workers but instead the supply is endless for low end workers. Very wrong in my opinion.

Same in the US

The unfortunate situation is that many Employers do not want to use this illegal labor but if they want to stay competitive with those who do, many times they have to.

it is a vicious cycle resulting in a race to the bottom

removed posts to allow reply

The alternative is to follow Japan, a country that limits immigrants. See how your expectations would work in a country of aging population and negative population growth.

Until the birth of the EU, every g7 nation limits immigrants. The alternative is not limiting immigrants, the alternative is limiting welfare and making sure that corporations don't win by keeping the minimum wage growth below inflation.

I fail to see the benefit in having low minimum wage and a domestic population who won't work for it, so end up on welfare and companies filling their ranks with desperate immigrants.

[mike324]

I do not pretend to know about the situation in Bangkok and some of the larger cities in the south.

There are a few things about minimum wage I know to be true here in the north I have never seen mentioned on a TV post before that I think should be known.

1) Most people who work for Min wage are required to work 12 hours per day to get that 300 baht

.

2) Most min wage jobs require the worker to work 6 days per week.

That breaks down to 25 baht per hour.

A 72 our week pays 1800 baht

or 7,200 baht per month

3( Another important fact I never hear mentioned is that farm labor (working in the hot sun 12 hours per day ) does not pay 300 baht per day.

Farm labor is only paid 200 baht per day....legal or not, that is the fact in northern Thailand.

Can you imagine trying to support yourself on these wages with only one day per week off to take care of business at home?

Now, try to imagine supporting a family on these wages...even with two adults working 6 days per week!

I have to say your assessment is wrong.

1.) Most people who work min wage works 8 hours per day as by law, and majority of factories abide by it.

2.) Most work min of 6 days because factories have to operate 6 days to meet demand, same for many service sectors which are open 7 days per week.

Those that work 12 hours (employees in departments stores or restaurants) do get paid for the extra hours they work, and they get comissions for meeting sale targets too.

Most people do get payed more than 300 baht per day in or areas surrounding Bangkok. If you do not pay more, you will not find any worker. There is even a shortage of foreign, legal and illegal workers. Even illegal workers are being paid at least 300 baht.

I won't compare to the country side where pay is lower. But I do agree, it is hard to live on minimum wage, but I think one of the contributing problem is because basic cost of living good is too expensive.

[Don Mega]

I do not pretend to know about the situation in Bangkok and some of the larger cities in the south.

There are a few things about minimum wage I know to be true here in the north I have never seen mentioned on a TV post before that I think should be known.

1) Most people who work for Min wage are required to work 12 hours per day to get that 300 baht

.

2) Most min wage jobs require the worker to work 6 days per week.

That breaks down to 25 baht per hour.

A 72 our week pays 1800 baht

or 7,200 baht per month

3( Another important fact I never hear mentioned is that farm labor (working in the hot sun 12 hours per day ) does not pay 300 baht per day.

Farm labor is only paid 200 baht per day....legal or not, that is the fact in northern Thailand.

Can you imagine trying to support yourself on these wages with only one day per week off to take care of business at home?

Now, try to imagine supporting a family on these wages...even with two adults working 6 days per week!

<snip>

2.) Most work min of 6 days because factories have to operate 6 days to meet demand, same for many service sectors which are open 7 days per week.

>snip>

Actually they work 6 days as the labour act stipulates a 48hour week. 6 x 8 = 48.

[daveAustin]

Min wage rises will never be enough since inflation will rise in kind. Suggest those folks who struggle sell that face-gaining truck and cut back on cigs & alcohol. 15k is plenty for a standard Thai family living within their means.

[micmichd]

No need for inflation if minimum wage increases are based on productivity.

Those trucks maybe face-gaining, but they are generally used for transportation and as such contribute to productivity. Also good for my nerves, saves me from the sick buffalo story.

Communication has improved since everyone uses mobiles. An absolute must in a highly mobile society, not only status symbols.

Agree on alcohol and cigs.

[Thai at Heart]

Min wage rises will never be enough since inflation will rise in kind. Suggest those folks who struggle sell that face-gaining truck and cut back on cigs & alcohol. 15k is plenty for a standard Thai family living within their means.

Plenty for a Thai family?

Could you actually be any more patronising? Why would this be insufficient for a farang family? Do Thais have lesser need than a farang family.

So lets look at it. A family of 4 on 15k?

Rent 4k. Food, minimum 100 baht per day per person. 400*30=12000

Ah, thanks for coming. Obviously with education they could manage to live on 15k by not eating. Obviously they need to be educated in starvation.

Plenty. What world are you living in.

Edited May 4, 2015 by Thai at Heart

[sambum]

Same old story. I earn minimum wages. I have wife and children to feed. Cost of living is too high to support my wife and kids on minimum wages.

Yes we all know. But why are you still earning minimum wages? Why do you not aquire more knowledge or skill to be productive and climb the wage ladder?

And why do you get married and have children when you can barely support just yourself?

Should society be responsible for you and your foolish acts?

This is such a horrible and arrogant way of thinking. And I'm shocked that it has the most likes at this topic. Wait, this is Thaivisa, home of the ignorant and arrogant, so I'm not really shocked.

Yeah, like it's just too easy to acquire the skills and climb the wage ladder, keep on dreaming. And blaming someone because he got married and had children?

Again, it is just sick to blame the common working man and woman. The government should be blamed, because they don't provide better minimum wages and social security.

The main factor for the huge sex industry is low wages and lack of social security. If I was a Thai who had to take care of his/her elderly parents who have no social security, instead of working at 7-11 for minimum wage, I'd have probably become a sex worker as well.

For many people Thailand is synonymous with sex tourism. If government really wants to improve this bad image, they should start by increasing minimum wage and provide social security for retired people.

Same root cause of many problems - money. For instance, why would anyone in their right mind want to become a policeman for app 7000 baht a month, and have to buy their uniform, gun, and motor bike out of that? Simples! The amount of money they can make from corruption compensates them for their low basic wage. And once they get used to the extra income, they find it very difficult to do without it.

As you quite rightly say, this is also a factor in the sex industry. I know a certain bar girl who was in tears because she wanted to be back home with her weeks old baby. She had been sending money home to her parents, but of course once she became pregnant that source of income stopped, and she went home to Esan to have the baby. In a matter of days, she was forced by her parents to leave the baby with them, and move back to B/K to resume her former occupation in order to send money back to her parents. And I am pretty sure that this is not an isolated case.

And actually, the government do provide for their elderly/retired people - my girlfriend's elderly mother gets the princely sum of 500 baht a month to buy food, and pay all the bills!

[trogers]

Same old story. I earn minimum wages. I have wife and children to feed. Cost of living is too high to support my wife and kids on minimum wages.

Yes we all know. But why are you still earning minimum wages? Why do you not aquire more knowledge or skill to be productive and climb the wage ladder?

And why do you get married and have children when you can barely support just yourself?

Should society be responsible for you and your foolish acts?

This is such a horrible and arrogant way of thinking. And I'm shocked that it has the most likes at this topic. Wait, this is Thaivisa, home of the ignorant and arrogant, so I'm not really shocked.

Yeah, like it's just too easy to acquire the skills and climb the wage ladder, keep on dreaming. And blaming someone because he got married and had children?

Again, it is just sick to blame the common working man and woman. The government should be blamed, because they don't provide better minimum wages and social security.

The main factor for the huge sex industry is low wages and lack of social security. If I was a Thai who had to take care of his/her elderly parents who have no social security, instead of working at 7-11 for minimum wage, I'd have probably become a sex worker as well.

For many people Thailand is synonymous with sex tourism. If government really wants to improve this bad image, they should start by increasing minimum wage and provide social security for retired people.

Same root cause of many problems - money. For instance, why would anyone in their right mind want to become a policeman for app 7000 baht a month, and have to buy their uniform, gun, and motor bike out of that? Simples! The amount of money they can make from corruption compensates them for their low basic wage. And once they get used to the extra income, they find it very difficult to do without it.

As you quite rightly say, this is also a factor in the sex industry. I know a certain bar girl who was in tears because she wanted to be back home with her weeks old baby. She had been sending money home to her parents, but of course once she became pregnant that source of income stopped, and she went home to Esan to have the baby. In a matter of days, she was forced by her parents to leave the baby with them, and move back to B/K to resume her former occupation in order to send money back to her parents. And I am pretty sure that this is not an isolated case.

And actually, the government do provide for their elderly/retired people - my girlfriend's elderly mother gets the princely sum of 500 baht a month to buy food, and pay all the bills!

Was hoping to read just a mention on the father of the baby...

[trogers]

Min wage rises will never be enough since inflation will rise in kind. Suggest those folks who struggle sell that face-gaining truck and cut back on cigs & alcohol. 15k is plenty for a standard Thai family living within their means.

Plenty for a Thai family?

Could you actually be any more patronising? Why would this be insufficient for a farang family? Do Thais have lesser need than a farang family.

So lets look at it. A family of 4 on 15k?

Rent 4k. Food, minimum 100 baht per day per person. 400*30=12000

Ah, thanks for coming. Obviously with education they could manage to live on 15k by not eating. Obviously they need to be educated in starvation.

Plenty. What world are you living in.

I do believe a struggling family like this in a developed world would have both parents working to support the family...

[robblok]

as if it's only Thais who don't know how to manage their money

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/05/the-danger-of-financial-ignorance-do-you-understand-money/361851/?utm_source=SFFB

Its global, i work with a company that helps people who are in debt. There are plenty of people who are in debt and plenty of them are stupid. But you see it with high income earners too.

[sambum]

Same old story. I earn minimum wages. I have wife and children to feed. Cost of living is too high to support my wife and kids on minimum wages.

Yes we all know. But why are you still earning minimum wages? Why do you not aquire more knowledge or skill to be productive and climb the wage ladder?

And why do you get married and have children when you can barely support just yourself?

Should society be responsible for you and your foolish acts?

This is such a horrible and arrogant way of thinking. And I'm shocked that it has the most likes at this topic. Wait, this is Thaivisa, home of the ignorant and arrogant, so I'm not really shocked.

Yeah, like it's just too easy to acquire the skills and climb the wage ladder, keep on dreaming. And blaming someone because he got married and had children?

Again, it is just sick to blame the common working man and woman. The government should be blamed, because they don't provide better minimum wages and social security.

The main factor for the huge sex industry is low wages and lack of social security. If I was a Thai who had to take care of his/her elderly parents who have no social security, instead of working at 7-11 for minimum wage, I'd have probably become a sex worker as well.

For many people Thailand is synonymous with sex tourism. If government really wants to improve this bad image, they should start by increasing minimum wage and provide social security for retired people.

Same root cause of many problems - money. For instance, why would anyone in their right mind want to become a policeman for app 7000 baht a month, and have to buy their uniform, gun, and motor bike out of that? Simples! The amount of money they can make from corruption compensates them for their low basic wage. And once they get used to the extra income, they find it very difficult to do without it.

As you quite rightly say, this is also a factor in the sex industry. I know a certain bar girl who was in tears because she wanted to be back home with her weeks old baby. She had been sending money home to her parents, but of course once she became pregnant that source of income stopped, and she went home to Esan to have the baby. In a matter of days, she was forced by her parents to leave the baby with them, and move back to B/K to resume her former occupation in order to send money back to her parents. And I am pretty sure that this is not an isolated case.

And actually, the government do provide for their elderly/retired people - my girlfriend's elderly mother gets the princely sum of 500 baht a month to buy food, and pay all the bills!

Was hoping to read just a mention on the father of the baby...

Do you actually live in Thailand, or just believe the "Amazing Thailand" B/S? This is not the UK where they have an agency called the CSA to chase up the payments by absent fathers!

[sambum]

Min wage rises will never be enough since inflation will rise in kind. Suggest those folks who struggle sell that face-gaining truck and cut back on cigs & alcohol. 15k is plenty for a standard Thai family living within their means.

Plenty for a Thai family?

Could you actually be any more patronising? Why would this be insufficient for a farang family? Do Thais have lesser need than a farang family.

So lets look at it. A family of 4 on 15k?

Rent 4k. Food, minimum 100 baht per day per person. 400*30=12000

Ah, thanks for coming. Obviously with education they could manage to live on 15k by not eating. Obviously they need to be educated in starvation.

Plenty. What world are you living in.

I do believe a struggling family like this in a developed world would have both parents working to support the family...

And what becomes of traditional family life then? Both parents working, child looked after by Nanny, (because the rest of the family also have to work) and then shipped off to boarding school? I do not have the figures/info/facts to hand, but I believe that most doctors and psychologists agree that the most important years in any child's life are the pre school years i.e. the bonding with mother years.

[Fat Haggis]

I do not pretend to know about the situation in Bangkok and some of the larger cities in the south.

There are a few things about minimum wage I know to be true here in the north I have never seen mentioned on a TV post before that I think should be known.

1) Most people who work for Min wage are required to work 12 hours per day to get that 300 baht

.

2) Most min wage jobs require the worker to work 6 days per week.

That breaks down to 25 baht per hour.

A 72 our week pays 1800 baht

or 7,200 baht per month

3( Another important fact I never hear mentioned is that farm labor (working in the hot sun 12 hours per day ) does not pay 300 baht per day.

Farm labor is only paid 200 baht per day....legal or not, that is the fact in northern Thailand.

Can you imagine trying to support yourself on these wages with only one day per week off to take care of business at home?

Now, try to imagine supporting a family on these wages...even with two adults working 6 days per week!

I have to say your assessment is wrong.

1.) Most people who work min wage works 8 hours per day as by law, and majority of factories abide by it.

2.) Most work min of 6 days because factories have to operate 6 days to meet demand, same for many service sectors which are open 7 days per week.

Those that work 12 hours (employees in departments stores or restaurants) do get paid for the extra hours they work, and they get comissions for meeting sale targets too.

Most people do get payed more than 300 baht per day in or areas surrounding Bangkok. If you do not pay more, you will not find any worker. There is even a shortage of foreign, legal and illegal workers. Even illegal workers are being paid at least 300 baht.

I won't compare to the country side where pay is lower. But I do agree, it is hard to live on minimum wage, but I think one of the contributing problem is because basic cost of living good is too expensive.

I don't believe Willyumiii's wording of "required" meant as per the law, more like to get 300 baht, they need to work 12 hours a day, I'm sure he will correct this.

I don't believe he was talking mostly about those in the retail trade, more like your labourers and outdoors workers, when he said up North, when you state they also get commissions for their sales targets, are you talking about the entire retail team here, like from the little lass on the floorall the way up to the manager of the store?

[Thai at Heart]

Productivity sounds good, but it's not that easy.

What about the productivity of Thai women, measured in the amount of children they raise to keep the supply of fresh labour force in the next generation?

Capitalist economy would say "That's not our problem", but that's not true.

Fact is: Thailand is already running short of labour force now, in another thread they are already complaining about this.

Get used to the idea that you need an international welfare system to cope with this (not so new) challenge, and the days of simply taking other nations' women or land are over.

Thailand isn't facing a shortage of labour, Thailand is facing a misallocation of labour.

The fact that there are so many people on minimum wage and there is a massive supply of low wage labour means that employers can continually supply labour from overseas to fill the gaps thus negating wage pressure to move the market. Hence, why now burmese are starting to be found in restaurants where they were only in menial labour. Beyond that, there is a lack of competition in so many markets that Homepro can continue to have hundreds of peopel standing around doing nothing, while in the rest of the world online shoppping has moved these people into other jobs.

The market here is very sticky, and full of inefficiences, but there is no shortage of labour, just a large percentage of people in jobs that are not very productive. Obviously, if the food manufacturers had no access to supply of labour from overseas, wages and conditions would improve. Basic economics.