Israel veterans group alleges Israeli misconduct in Gaza war

[webfact]

Israel veterans group alleges Israeli misconduct in Gaza war

JERUSALEM (AP) — An Israeli group that collects testimonies from combat soldiers published accounts Monday from last year's Gaza war alleging indiscriminate fire killed Palestinian civilians.

Breaking The Silence said its accounts, gathered from dozens of unnamed soldiers, show a "change in the military's combat norms."

"A troubling picture arises of a policy of indiscriminate fire that led to the deaths of innocent civilians," director Yuli Novak said.

The report said the testimonies came from soldiers who served in the 50-day war between Israel and the Islamic militant group Hamas. Soldiers only were identified by their rank and branch of the military they served in to protect their privacy.

The group says its reports, which are critical of the military, are meant to show the Israeli public the difficult "reality" where soldiers serve in Palestinian areas.

Over 2,200 Palestinians, including hundreds of civilians, were killed during the war. In Israel, 67 soldiers and six civilians were killed.

The accounts claimed that Israel loosened its rules of engagement, resulting in heavy civilian casualties.

"Anything inside (the Gaza Strip) is a threat, the area has to be sterilized, empty of people and if we don't see someone waving a white flag, screaming, 'I give up,' or something then he's a threat and there's authorization to open fire," one soldier, identified in the report as an infantry sergeant, said. Others described incidents in which civilians were killed.

The Israeli military has launched dozens of investigations into alleged wartime misconduct. It rejected the group's report, saying the claims lacked proof and could not be investigated.

Israel argues that the heavy civilian death toll was Hamas' fault, accusing it of using civilians as human shields and launching rockets — and drawing retaliation — from civilian areas.

Still, the report is likely to add fuel to Palestinian claims that Israel committed war crimes during the fighting. The Palestinians recently joined the International Criminal Court in hopes of prosecuting Israel over alleged war crimes.


-- (c) Associated Press 2015-05-05

[Suradit69]

Hardly a revelation although the source is interesting.

The Israeli military has launched dozens of investigations into alleged wartime misconduct. It rejected the group's report, saying the claims lacked proof and could not be investigated.

It launched the investigations and then buried them out of sight with the occasional meaningless wrist slap.

...saying the claims lacked proof and could not be investigated.

Says a lot about their willingness to do anything and their assumption that members of the military, active or veteran, are not to be believed.

Edited May 5, 2015 by Suradit69

[ezzra]

This "group" a radicle left entity who get it's funding from overseas sources tasked with the sole purpose to

demonise and show Israel in a very negative lights, this group is one of many, the army has asked them

repeatedly for their 'evidences' so they can investigate the allegations but none was supplied,

[mike324]

Can't deny that innocent civilians were killed, wasn't the UN compound hit too?

[Jingthing]

Where are the Palestinian groups being self critical of their actions in this or any war with Israel?

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[Seastallion]

" the area has to be sterilized, empty of people and if we don't see someone waving a white flag, screaming, 'I give up,' or something then he's a threat and there's authorization to open fire," "

Disgusting. Not surprising, and absolutely abominable. Hopefully the ICC will put the IDF monsters in their place.

[Jingthing]

Can't deny that innocent civilians were killed, wasn't the UN compound hit too?

Nobody is denying innocent civilians were killed. That isn't really the point in this.

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[Seastallion]

Where are the Palestinian groups being self critical of their actions in this or any war with Israel?

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They probably have their internet restricted, or the pens with which to write blockaded.

But two wrongs don't make a right.....so the (apparent perceived) lack of Palestinian-sourced criticism is completely irrelevant here...and off-topic.

[Linky]

Where are the Palestinian groups being self critical of their actions in this or any war with Israel?

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Oh, i thought Israel consider themselves beyond reproach and always act impeccably. Good to know you think they only should act same as the Palestinians that they despise for their actions.

[Linky]

This "group" a radicle left entity who get it's funding from overseas sources tasked with the sole purpose to

demonise and show Israel in a very negative lights, this group is one of many, the army has asked them

repeatedly for their 'evidences' so they can investigate the allegations but none was supplied,

The group asked for a meeting with IDF officials to discuss the evidence but received no response. So the IDF really does not want to investigate.

What the IDF really wants is the names of the witnesses so they can undergo some attitude adjustment.

I certainly would not want my name given out as we know how Israel reacts to those that dont follow blindly.

[Ulysses G.]

Breaking the Silence is a far-left group of malcontents known for not backing up their accusations with any proof. When a former soldier tried to speak out about his positive experiences concerning the IDF taking care of Palestinian civilians at one of their events, they would not let him speak.

And that is the virtue that makes the IDF the most moral army of the world, and turns you people into hypocrites tainted with anti-Semitism that try to besmirch the most moral army in the world with lies and slander.

But here, at least, your attempt to use the IDF as a pawn in your political game didn't succeed. And you know why? Because we Israelis know the truth full well, and we know who are the good guys, and who are the bad guys. And you? Have you understood that yet?

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/181533#.VUiKruVJ3fI

[user786895]

Where are the Palestinian groups being self critical of their actions in this or any war with Israel?

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I would imagine that it is mixed with the report that 67 Israeli soldiers died, as opposed to over 2,000 civilians wouldn't you?

[ggt]

"A troubling picture arises of a policy of indiscriminate fire that led to the deaths of innocent civilians,"

This happens in EVERY conflict...the US calls it collateral damage...one is supposed to minimize the exposure of destruction to civilians...but know that it will happen...

Death is a norm for armed conflict...stop all wars...spend the money on building up the world's economies instead of building up military war machines...learn to cooperate and prosper in a peaceful co-existence...

I know...wishful thinking...but someone has to think outside the box...break the continuous cycle of death and destruction...else the world as we have known it will be destroyed by human stupidity...

[Ulysses G.]

No wonder Israel wins wars. The rules of engagement favor the soldiers of Israel, rather than the enemy. The USA has forgotten this lesson. Most of this is nothing shocking.

The Israeli air force dropped thousands of leaflets on areas it was preparing to attack, but according to the testimonies, it was assumed that once these leaflets had been distributed, anyone left would be from Hamas, or one of the other militant groups that took part in the war.

Another first sergeant, from an infantry division operating northern Gaza, said that he was told that, “if it looks like a man, shoot. It was simple: You’re in a motherf***ing combat zone. A few hours before you went in the whole area was bombed, if there’s anyone there who doesn’t clearly look innocent, you apparently need to shoot that person.”
http://www.independe...s-10223427.html

In a statement the IDF said: The IDF is committed to properly investigating all credible claims raised via media, NGOs, and official complaints concerning IDF conduct during operation Protective Edge, in as serious a manner as possible.

Today, as in the past the organisation Breaking the Silence has been asked to provide any evidence or testimony related to IDF activities prior to publication, in order for genuine investigations to be carried out. Unfortunately, as in the past, Breaking the Silence has refused to provide the IDF with any proof of their clai

[snowgard]

This "group" a radicle left entity who get it's funding from overseas sources tasked with the sole purpose to

demonise and show Israel in a very negative lights,

The Nazis & SS Propaganda Ministerium spoke like this all the time too!!! We don't kill someone, we don't have Concentration Camps. We have only Arbeitslager!! Radicale Groups gives false Information because they not like our system!!!

You guys learned a lot of the Nazis & SS Propaganda Ministerium!!!

ISRAELIS are GOOD!!! All others are EVILS!!!

Same for every dead Israli Soldier their army killed around 50 palestine civilians. This is real Nazi Style!!!

I know!!! What can you do if the civilians jumped into the shotings.They are stupid and want kill thereself!!

And everyone hate ISRAEL!!!

But this is not true. Be fair and respect other like you want be respectet. And give EVERYONE the same rights!!!

[Jingthing]

Typical anti-Israel hate speech. Pushing the false idea that modern Israel is equivalent to Nazi Germany.

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[dexterm]

This "group" a radicle left entity who get it's funding from overseas sources tasked with the sole purpose to

demonise and show Israel in a very negative lights, this group is one of many, the army has asked them

repeatedly for their 'evidences' so they can investigate the allegations but none was supplied,

They are also ex frontline IDF soldiers who have the conscience to speak the uncomfortable truth. One day there will be a memorial of the righteous for them.

They have contacted IDF high command...and have been met with a wall of ..... Silence.

In a letter seen by The Independent, Breaking the Silence approached the IDF on 23 March. The group wrote to the IDF chief of staff, Gadi Eizenkot, requesting a meeting. “With the completion of the first stage of gathering testimonies from the combatants from Operation Protective Edge, and in the light of the severity of the facts described in the [testimonies], we ask to present the findings to you, urgently,” the letter says.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/fire-at-every-person-you-see-israeli-soldiers-reveal-they-were-ordered-to-shoot-to-kill-in-gaza--even-if-the-targets-may-have-been-civilians-10223427.html

[dexterm]

Where are the Palestinian groups being self critical of their actions in this or any war with Israel?

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Two wrongs don't make a right.

Would you rather "Breaking the Silence" remained silent if they see war crimes and then claim "We didn't know"

[humqdpf]

This "group" a radicle left entity who get it's funding from overseas sources tasked with the sole purpose to

demonise and show Israel in a very negative lights, this group is one of many, the army has asked them

repeatedly for their 'evidences' so they can investigate the allegations but none was supplied,

This "radical" group as you (appear to) call them, were themselves in the Israeli army. There is no evidence for your claim that they get funding from overseas - funding to do what, exactly? Why would veterans who put their lives on the line for their country, right or wrong, now have "a sole purpose" to show their own country in a negative light?

[Jingthing]

This "group" a radicle left entity who get it's funding from overseas sources tasked with the sole purpose to

demonise and show Israel in a very negative lights, this group is one of many, the army has asked them

repeatedly for their 'evidences' so they can investigate the allegations but none was supplied,

This "radical" group as you (appear to) call them, were themselves in the Israeli army. There is no evidence for your claim that they get funding from overseas - funding to do what, exactly? Why would veterans who put their lives on the line for their country, right or wrong, now have "a sole purpose" to show their own country in a negative light?

"No evidence" of overseas funding you say?

Perhaps you've got that wrong:

European Funders and Their Agenda

• Contrary to BtS’ claim that “the contents and opinions in this booklet do not express the position of the funders,” NGO Monitor research reveals that a number of funders made their grants conditional on the NGO obtaining a minimum number of negative “testimonies.” This contradicts BtS’ declarations and thus turns it into an organization that represents its foreign donors’ interest, severely damaging the NGO’s reliability and its ability to analyze complicated combat situations.

http://www.ngo-monitor.org/article/europe_to_breaking_the_silence_bring_us_as_many_incriminating_testimonies_as_possible

As far as the claims made. they are from anonymous sources and cannot be independently verified. It can't even be verified that they are IDF soldiers making those claims.

Edited May 5, 2015 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

Typical anti-Israel hate speech. Pushing the false idea that modern Israel is equivalent to Nazi Germany.

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This is the TRUE not a Anti-Israel hate speech!!! I hope only that the day come where all the MONEY SUPPORTERS of Israel stop to spend Money, weapons and technic Support. Also stop to Import/Export from/to Israel!!! Interesting what happen than. This will change a lot of minds.

So what's your goal? The end of Israel? In my impression that's the usual goal of extremist Israel demonizers and also of course Hamas and most BDS activists.

[Scott]

Some off-topic posts removed.

[dexterm]

This "group" a radicle left entity who get it's funding from overseas sources tasked with the sole purpose to

demonise and show Israel in a very negative lights, this group is one of many, the army has asked them

repeatedly for their 'evidences' so they can investigate the allegations but none was supplied,

This "radical" group as you (appear to) call them, were themselves in the Israeli army. There is no evidence for your claim that they get funding from overseas - funding to do what, exactly? Why would veterans who put their lives on the line for their country, right or wrong, now have "a sole purpose" to show their own country in a negative light?

"No evidence" of overseas funding you say?

Perhaps you've got that wrong:

European Funders and Their Agenda

• Contrary to BtS’ claim that “the contents and opinions in this booklet do not express the position of the funders,” NGO Monitor research reveals that a number of funders made their grants conditional on the NGO obtaining a minimum number of negative “testimonies.” This contradicts BtS’ declarations and thus turns it into an organization that represents its foreign donors’ interest, severely damaging the NGO’s reliability and its ability to analyze complicated combat situations.

http://www.ngo-monitor.org/article/europe_to_breaking_the_silence_bring_us_as_many_incriminating_testimonies_as_possible

As far as the claims made. they are from anonymous sources and cannot be independently verified. It can't even be verified that they are IDF soldiers making those claims.

and cannot be independently verified.

That's because the IDF won't allow an independent inquiry

"Breaking the Silence argues that its findings justify an independent investigation into the conduct of last summer’s war. The group says each time Israel goes to war in Gaza, the threshold of what is acceptable is pushed up a level."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/fire-at-every-person-you-see-israeli-soldiers-reveal-they-were-ordered-to-shoot-to-kill-in-gaza--even-if-the-targets-may-have-been-civilians-10223427.html

[Ulysses G.]

That's because the IDF won't allow an independent inquiry

Please provide evidence from a credible source. You have been caught posting fabrications over and over again. I would never take your word for it.

[snowgard]

So what's your goal? The end of Israel? In my impression that's the usual goal of extremist Israel demonizers and also of course Hamas and most BDS activists.

No, but to go back to the table and find the best solution for everyone!!! Give the palestines their own country and help to build it up.

I know this is not easy but this is the only way how to solve the problems.

And for sure to murder Hamas Politicans and thousands of civlians isn't a solution.

[The manic]

I imagine they were goaded into it. The I'D has a lot of youngsters drafted in to it. The 'Pals' like other terror groups specialise in this kind of behaviour to misdirected people from the outrageous crimes they commit.

[dexterm]

That's because the IDF won't allow an independent inquiry

Please provide evidence from a credible source.

ezzra above claimed

the army has asked them

repeatedly for their 'evidences' so they can investigate the allegations but none was supplied,

The truth is quite the opposite. I gave the link already. Right click it.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/fire-at-every-person-you-see-israeli-soldiers-reveal-they-were-ordered-to-shoot-to-kill-in-gaza--even-if-the-targets-may-have-been-civilians-10223427.html

"In a letter seen by The Independent, Breaking the Silence approached the IDF on 23 March. The group wrote to the IDF chief of staff, Gadi Eizenkot, requesting a meeting. “With the completion of the first stage of gathering testimonies from the combatants from Operation Protective Edge, and in the light of the severity of the facts described in the [testimonies], we ask to present the findings to you, urgently,” the letter says."

The Independent is one of most highly respected UK newspapers, because it has not affiliated itself with any political party and prides itself on being free from proprietorial influence unlike the Murdoch empire. It was named National Newspaper of the Year at the 2004 British Press Awards.

It was founded under the Chairmanship of Sir Marcus Joseph Sieff, the owner of Marks and Spencers. He was also a leading figure in UK Zionism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcus_Sieff,_Baron_Sieff_of_Brimpton.

Some further chilling details of atrocities committed by IDF in evidence from Breaking the Silence comes from a different source, The Guardian, another highly respected UK newspaper.named newspaper of the year at the 2014 British Press Awards.

One soldier describes the killing of two women, because one had a mobile phone.When they sent 3 tanks to check the bodies they found them unarmed ......"They were listed as terrorists. They were fired at. So of course they must have been terrorists.”

Many of the buildings (with people inside) and infrastructure destroyed were revenge killings by the IDF. Soldiers recall the loopholes and tricks they played to enable them to fire on civilians. Sickening stuff....much more at..

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/may/04/israeli-soldiers-cast-doubt-on-legality-of-gaza-military-operation

Breaking the Silence soldiers are the most courageous in the IDF

Their evidence may force Israelis and their apologists to overcome their state of denial, and be more honest about the injustices they have perpetrated against their Palestinian neighbors.

Edited May 6, 2015 by dexterm

[Seastallion]

That's because the IDF won't allow an independent inquiry

Please provide evidence from a credible source.

I gave the link already. Right click it.

The Independent is one of most highly respected UK newspapers, because it has not affiliated itself with any political party and prides itself on being free from proprietorial influence unlike the Murdoch empire. It was named National Newspaper of the Year at the 2004 British Press Awards.

It was founded under the Chairmanship of Sir Marcus Joseph Sieff, the owner of Marks and Spencers. He was also a leading figure in UK Zionism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcus_Sieff,_Baron_Sieff_of_Brimpton.

Some further chilling details of atrocities committed by IDF in evidence from Breaking the Silence comes from a different source, The Guardian, another highly respected UK newspaper.named newspaper of the year at the 2014 British Press Awards.

One soldier describes the killing of two women, because one had a mobile phone.When they sent 3 tanks to check the bodies they found them unarmed ......"They were listed as terrorists. They were fired at. So of course they must have been terrorists.”

Many of the buildings (with people inside) and infrastructure destroyed were revenge killings by the IDF. Soldiers recall the loopholes and tricks they played to enable them to fire on civilians. Sickening stuff....much more at..

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/may/04/israeli-soldiers-cast-doubt-on-legality-of-gaza-military-operation

Breaking the Silence soldiers are the most courageous in the IDF

Their evidence may force Israelis and their apologists to overcome their state of denial, and be more honest about the injustices they have perpetrated against their Palestinian neighbors.

When it comes to critical comments upon Israel or the IDF, I think for some, the only "credible" source would be out of the mouth of Netanyahu, and even then, they'd have to hear it for themselves, first-hand, not get it from media.

It's a shame that people with no vested interest are such vehement deniers that the truth is ignored.

Ignorance is bliss, I suppose.

[simple1]

"Breaking the Silence also made it clear that the personal details of the soldiers quoted in the collection, and the exact location of the incidents described in the testimonies, would readily be made available to any official and independent investigation of the events, as long as the identity of the testifiers did not become public"

Was this request authorised by the IDF and if so what was the outcome? In any case there are video & print testimonials identifying some contributors by name e.g.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/any-person-you-see--shoot-to-kill-the-idf-doctrine-which-causes-the-death-of-innocent-palestinians-10225904.html

http://www.breakingthesilence.org.il/testimonies/videos/56076

[Seastallion]

"Breaking the Silence also made it clear that the personal details of the soldiers quoted in the collection, and the exact location of the incidents described in the testimonies, would readily be made available to any official and independent investigation of the events, as long as the identity of the testifiers did not become public"

Was this request authorised by the IDF and if so what was the outcome? In any case there are video & print testimonials identifying some contributors by name e.g.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/any-person-you-see--shoot-to-kill-the-idf-doctrine-which-causes-the-death-of-innocent-palestinians-10225904.html

http://www.breakingthesilence.org.il/testimonies/videos/56076

Brave people....they'd better be careful though...whistle-blowers are not tolerated well in Israel...look at Vanunu.