Israel veterans group alleges Israeli misconduct in Gaza war

[Jingthing]

So much interest in Israel's faults. So little interest in much worse in Syria and so many others. Go figure ...

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[Ulysses G.]

A British journalist, hostile to the settlement movement, found Breaking the Silence to be a bunch of illegitimate frauds.

It was only a hunch at first. But later, the bias of the organisation became clearer. During a break between interviews, I asked Yehuda Shaul, one of the founders of the organisation, how the group is funded. It was with some surprise that I learned that 45 per cent of it is donated by European countries, including Norway and Spain, and the European Union. Other donors include UNICEF, Christian Aid and Oxfam GB. To me this seemed potentially problematic.

As is the case in all democracies, the IDF is an organ of the state, not a political decision-maker. If the goal of Breaking the Silence was simply to clean up the Israeli military, it wouldn’t be such a problem. Instead, the aim is to “end the occupation”, and on this basis it secured its funding.

It appeared, therefore, that these former soldiers, some of whom draw salaries from Breaking the Silence, were motivated by financial and political concerns to further a pro-Palestinian agenda. They weren’t merely telling the truth about their experiences. They were under pressure to perform.

Indeed, I later discovered that there have been many allegations in the past that members of the organisation either fabricated or exaggerated their testimonies.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jakewallissimons/100248886/why-are-european-powers-and-oxfam-funding-a-radical-israeli-group/

So, you have been posting quotes from other sources as if they were your own words....all you did in your previous post was exchange the word "former" for "has been". You did not attribute in the slightest.

tut tut tut.

How did I know that you would come up with something to nit-pick about?

The journalist was not Jewish and the source was not Israeli - that lets those out - so now you are complaining about using similar phrases to the articles that I have been researching. That sentence - the EXACT sentence - is repeated in numerous articles all over the Internet by different writers. Who would I "attribute" it to?

Edited May 7, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[Thorgal]

A British journalist, hostile to the settlement movement, found Breaking the Silence to be a bunch of illegitimate frauds.

It was only a hunch at first. But later, the bias of the organisation became clearer. During a break between interviews, I asked Yehuda Shaul, one of the founders of the organisation, how the group is funded. It was with some surprise that I learned that 45 per cent of it is donated by European countries, including Norway and Spain, and the European Union. Other donors include UNICEF, Christian Aid and Oxfam GB. To me this seemed potentially problematic.

As is the case in all democracies, the IDF is an organ of the state, not a political decision-maker. If the goal of Breaking the Silence was simply to clean up the Israeli military, it wouldn’t be such a problem. Instead, the aim is to “end the occupation”, and on this basis it secured its funding.

It appeared, therefore, that these former soldiers, some of whom draw salaries from Breaking the Silence, were motivated by financial and political concerns to further a pro-Palestinian agenda. They weren’t merely telling the truth about their experiences. They were under pressure to perform.

Indeed, I later discovered that there have been many allegations in the past that members of the organisation either fabricated or exaggerated their testimonies.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jakewallissimons/100248886/why-are-european-powers-and-oxfam-funding-a-radical-israeli-group/

So, you have been posting quotes from other sources as if they were your own words....all you did in your previous post was exchange the word "former" for "has been". You did not attribute in the slightest.

tut tut tut.

How did I know that you would come up with something to nit-pick about? The journalist was not Jewish and the source was not Israeli, so now you are complaining about using similar phrases to the articles that I have been researching. That sentence - the EXACT sentence - is repeated in numerous articles all over the Internet by different writers.

Jake Wallis Simons is a Jew...and your source is biased to the OP...

Quote from link :

"Jake Wallis Simons is a writer, journalist and broadcaster. He grew up in an Orthodox Jewish family in the United Kingdom..."

http://hmd.org.uk/resources/books-for-youngs/english-german-girl-jake-wallis-simons

https://bwisp.wordpress.com/2014/04/30/an-open-letter-to-jake-wallis-simons/

Edited May 7, 2015 by Thorgal

[Ulysses G.]

Jake Wallis Simons is a Jew...

Sorry, I missed that. Of course I was not looking for it either. Something else for the professional Israel-haters to nit-pick about.

[Linky]

Jake Wallis Simons is a Jew...

Sorry, I missed that. Of course I was not looking for it either. Something else for the professional Israel-haters to nit-pick about.

And there is oh so much

[The manic]

Lefties have always been anti jewish. .they inherited it via the pogroms. Nowadays the islmofascist machine churns out anti Israeli and anti jewish race hate. So we have a toxic mix of the leftists and islamacists promoting this vile propaganda. The Pals don't really exist except as an instrument for the Arab world to bludgeon Israel.

[dexterm]

So much interest in Israel's faults. So little interest in much worse in Syria and so many others. Go figure ...

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Two wrongs don't make a right, and the OP concerns Israeli war crimes.

Israel is the one that claims it has the most moral army in the world,

Breaking the Silence testimonials prove that Netanyahu's spokesman Mark Regev was lying when he said:

"even if we have a senior terrorist leader, someone who we want to take out, if we know that innocent civilians will be hurt, we will call off the operation. We do not see the people of Gaza as our enemy.

We did not want to see civilians hurt. We make every effort."

http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2014/s4045856.htm

Orders were coming from high up the chain to sterilize the area to attack targets with a very high risk of civilian casualties.

"It’s always ‘Targets, targets, targets.’ And at a certain point they say ‘You can start submitting targets to the planning crews, you can start submitting targets for approval that are at the highest collateral damage levels, at collateral damage level two.’"

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/fire-at-every-person-you-see-israeli-soldiers-reveal-they-were-ordered-to-shoot-to-kill-in-gaza--even-if-the-targets-may-have-been-civilians-10223427.html

Edited May 7, 2015 by dexterm

[dexterm]

A British journalist, hostile to the settlement movement, found Breaking the Silence to be a bunch of illegitimate frauds.

It was only a hunch at first. But later, the bias of the organisation became clearer. During a break between interviews, I asked Yehuda Shaul, one of the founders of the organisation, how the group is funded. It was with some surprise that I learned that 45 per cent of it is donated by European countries, including Norway and Spain, and the European Union. Other donors include UNICEF, Christian Aid and Oxfam GB. To me this seemed potentially problematic.

As is the case in all democracies, the IDF is an organ of the state, not a political decision-maker. If the goal of Breaking the Silence was simply to clean up the Israeli military, it wouldn’t be such a problem. Instead, the aim is to “end the occupation”, and on this basis it secured its funding.

It appeared, therefore, that these former soldiers, some of whom draw salaries from Breaking the Silence, were motivated by financial and political concerns to further a pro-Palestinian agenda. They weren’t merely telling the truth about their experiences. They were under pressure to perform.

Indeed, I later discovered that there have been many allegations in the past that members of the organisation either fabricated or exaggerated their testimonies.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jakewallissimons/100248886/why-are-european-powers-and-oxfam-funding-a-radical-israeli-group/

So, you have been posting quotes from other sources as if they were your own words....all you did in your previous post was exchange the word "former" for "has been". You did not attribute in the slightest.

tut tut tut.

How did I know that you would come up with something to nit-pick about? The journalist was not Jewish and the source was not Israeli, so now you are complaining about using similar phrases to the articles that I have been researching. That sentence - the EXACT sentence - is repeated in numerous articles all over the Internet by different writers.

Jake Wallis Simons is a Jew...and your source is biased to the OP...

Quote from link :

"Jake Wallis Simons is a writer, journalist and broadcaster. He grew up in an Orthodox Jewish family in the United Kingdom..."

http://hmd.org.uk/resources/books-for-youngs/english-german-girl-jake-wallis-simons

https://bwisp.wordpress.com/2014/04/30/an-open-letter-to-jake-wallis-simons/

There have been other attempts to smear these courageous soldiers' testimonies.

"The group says that it approached soldiers to interview, and that it rejected the testimony of some on the grounds that it was unreliable. Included in that number is a new Israeli MP from Mr Netanyahu’s Likud party, Oren Hazan, who approached the group with the intention of giving false testimony with the aim of discrediting the organisation. Mr Hazan did not take part in the conflict."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/fire-at-every-person-you-see-israeli-soldiers-reveal-they-were-ordered-to-shoot-to-kill-in-gaza--even-if-the-targets-may-have-been-civilians-10223427.html

[thaibeachlovers]

So much interest in Israel's faults. So little interest in much worse in Syria and so many others. Go figure ...

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We are constantly being told that Israel is the only democracy in the area and is the "good guy". A "democracy" is subject to scrutiny. Syria is a dictatorship and no one expects it to be open to criticism.

You can't have it both ways- if you want to be respected don't behave like a murdering bully.

BTW, stop equating anti Israel opinion with pro Palestinian sentiment. One can recognise that Israel commits war crimes without being a Hamas supporter.

Edited May 8, 2015 by thaibeachlovers

[kblaze]

A British journalist, hostile to the settlement movement, found Breaking the Silence to be a bunch of illegitimate frauds.

It was only a hunch at first. But later, the bias of the organisation became clearer. During a break between interviews, I asked Yehuda Shaul, one of the founders of the organisation, how the group is funded. It was with some surprise that I learned that 45 per cent of it is donated by European countries, including Norway and Spain, and the European Union. Other donors include UNICEF, Christian Aid and Oxfam GB. To me this seemed potentially problematic.

As is the case in all democracies, the IDF is an organ of the state, not a political decision-maker. If the goal of Breaking the Silence was simply to clean up the Israeli military, it wouldn’t be such a problem. Instead, the aim is to “end the occupation”, and on this basis it secured its funding.

It appeared, therefore, that these former soldiers, some of whom draw salaries from Breaking the Silence, were motivated by financial and political concerns to further a pro-Palestinian agenda. They weren’t merely telling the truth about their experiences. They were under pressure to perform.

Indeed, I later discovered that there have been many allegations in the past that members of the organisation either fabricated or exaggerated their testimonies.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jakewallissimons/100248886/why-are-european-powers-and-oxfam-funding-a-radical-israeli-group/

Where does he say he is "hostile to the settlement movement"??

He doesn't really give a personal view on the issue, choosing phrasing such as;

"This isn’t to justify the existence of the settlements, or to soften the debate about their legality"

In the blog post, which I read, he gets rubbed the wrong way by BTS and thinks they try to "sex up" the plight of the pals in the occupied territories. He cites two main things; 1) A member of BTS he interviewed changing the wording from "we entered a house in the night" to "kicked in the door of a house in the night" (which happens after the author baits the soldier into it) during the course of an interview. He subsequently leaves out the rest of the soldiers statement which is strange.

2) BTS using Hebron as an example of what its like in the occupied territories. He thinks it should be the exception not the example.

In my opinion those reasons for wishing they EU wouldn't fund the organization are quite weak. He doesn't seem to understand that as a whistleblowing organization they will of course be biased in that their focus isn't "to show the good side of the settlements".

Bottom line, he doesn't point a single specific instance of something BTS said being wrong. He basically says he felt they were overblowing the issue and thus shouldn't be funded.

[kblaze]

So much interest in Israel's faults. So little interest in much worse in Syria and so many others. Go figure ...

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And when all else fails...misdirect!!

Here ya go JT, so you can carry on about Syria

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/815976-suffering-rises-as-militants-take-over-refugee-camp-in-syria/

[Jingthing]

This report appears to be much more objective than the report in the OP which is clear had a specific anti-Israeli agenda from the start.

Over the course of 50 days in the summer of 2014, the Israeli Defense Forces conducted a high-intensity air and ground campaign against Hamas in the Gaza strip. Sparked by the murder of three Israeli teenagers by Hamas militants, this short but violent conflict resulted in over 2,100 killed on the Palestinian side, as well as widespread destruction and damage to civilian infrastructure. Israel suffered roughly 70 casualties during the operation, including IDF soldiers killed in battle and Israeli civilians struck by Hamas’ indiscriminate rocket attacks against Israeli population centers, which also took a large psychological toll on terrorized Israeli civilians. This latest chapter in the long saga of conflict between Israel and Hamas provides another salient lesson in the horrors of war, but also a new opportunity to examine the operation of the law of armed conflict principles in practice.
...

Broadly speaking, we concluded that IDF positions on targeting law largely track those of the United States military. Moreover, even when they differ, the Israeli approach remains within the ambit of generally acceptable State practice. The IDF is served by a corps of highly competent and well-trained legal advisors who operate with a remarkable degree of autonomy, and its operations are subject to extensive judicial monitoring. While there are certainly Israeli legal positions that may be contentious, we found that their approach to targeting is consistent with the law and, in many cases, worthy of emulation.

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2593629

http://justsecurity.org/22392/legal-operational-assessment-israels-targeting-practices/

Edited May 8, 2015 by Jingthing

[Seastallion]

This report appears to be much more objective than the report in the OP which is clear had a specific anti-Israeli agenda from the start.

Over the course of 50 days in the summer of 2014, the Israeli Defense Forces conducted a high-intensity air and ground campaign against Hamas in the Gaza strip. Sparked by the murder of three Israeli teenagers by Hamas militants, this short but violent conflict resulted in over 2,100 killed on the Palestinian side, as well as widespread destruction and damage to civilian infrastructure. Israel suffered roughly 70 casualties during the operation, including IDF soldiers killed in battle and Israeli civilians struck by Hamas’ indiscriminate rocket attacks against Israeli population centers, which also took a large psychological toll on terrorized Israeli civilians. This latest chapter in the long saga of conflict between Israel and Hamas provides another salient lesson in the horrors of war, but also a new opportunity to examine the operation of the law of armed conflict principles in practice.

...

Broadly speaking, we concluded that IDF positions on targeting law largely track those of the United States military. Moreover, even when they differ, the Israeli approach remains within the ambit of generally acceptable State practice. The IDF is served by a corps of highly competent and well-trained legal advisors who operate with a remarkable degree of autonomy, and its operations are subject to extensive judicial monitoring. While there are certainly Israeli legal positions that may be contentious, we found that their approach to targeting is consistent with the law and, in many cases, worthy of emulation.

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2593629

http://justsecurity.org/22392/legal-operational-assessment-israels-targeting-practices/

More objective....That's tongue-in-cheek, right?

[The manic]

The IDF worked with commendable restraint what ever the anti semetic lefties and the Islamsist hate machine says. The whole of the Arab world could learn a lot to their benefit from the State of Israel and it's people.

[Scott]

An inflammatory, off-topic post removed.

[JingerBen]

The IDF worked with commendable restraint what ever the anti semetic lefties and the Islamsist hate machine says. The whole of the Arab world could learn a lot to their benefit from the State of Israel and it's people.

If territorial expansion is what they want to learn how to do successfully, then yes, Israel would be a good example to follow.

[dexterm]

This report appears to be much more objective than the report in the OP which is clear had a specific anti-Israeli agenda from the start.

Over the course of 50 days in the summer of 2014, the Israeli Defense Forces conducted a high-intensity air and ground campaign against Hamas in the Gaza strip. Sparked by the murder of three Israeli teenagers by Hamas militants, this short but violent conflict resulted in over 2,100 killed on the Palestinian side, as well as widespread destruction and damage to civilian infrastructure. Israel suffered roughly 70 casualties during the operation, including IDF soldiers killed in battle and Israeli civilians struck by Hamas’ indiscriminate rocket attacks against Israeli population centers, which also took a large psychological toll on terrorized Israeli civilians. This latest chapter in the long saga of conflict between Israel and Hamas provides another salient lesson in the horrors of war, but also a new opportunity to examine the operation of the law of armed conflict principles in practice.

...

Broadly speaking, we concluded that IDF positions on targeting law largely track those of the United States military. Moreover, even when they differ, the Israeli approach remains within the ambit of generally acceptable State practice. The IDF is served by a corps of highly competent and well-trained legal advisors who operate with a remarkable degree of autonomy, and its operations are subject to extensive judicial monitoring. While there are certainly Israeli legal positions that may be contentious, we found that their approach to targeting is consistent with the law and, in many cases, worthy of emulation.

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2593629

http://justsecurity.org/22392/legal-operational-assessment-israels-targeting-practices/

Your sources have a clear pro IDF bias.

In the second sentence alone of his preamble, the writer assigns the entire blame for the conflict to Hamas.

Then in the 2nd paragraph he writes "the IDF invited us to Israel"...it's a pity the IDF did not extend the same courtesy to an independent UN inquiry.

Breaking the Silence does not as you say have ..

a specific anti-Israeli agenda

It has a specific anti war crimes agenda.

One day Breaking the Silence will be hailed as the conscience of the nation of Israel...the voice of the righteous, while all others were prepared to sweep the truth under the carpet.

Edited May 10, 2015 by dexterm

[Jingthing]

The IDF worked with commendable restraint what ever the anti semetic lefties and the Islamsist hate machine says. The whole of the Arab world could learn a lot to their benefit from the State of Israel and it's people.

If territorial expansion is what they want to learn how to do successfully, then yes, Israel would be a good example to follow.

What a twisted exaggeration. Israel gave up Gaza. Israel was attacked by several nations starting from her beginning. Let us know when Israel invades Poland. Bottom line is the Israel demonizers don't want Israel to exist in any borders. They're not fooling anybody.

Why do they hate Israel so much that they put so much energy into working against her existence?

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Edited May 10, 2015 by Jingthing

[dexterm]

The IDF worked with commendable restraint what ever the anti semetic lefties and the Islamsist hate machine says. The whole of the Arab world could learn a lot to their benefit from the State of Israel and it's people.

If territorial expansion is what they want to learn how to do successfully, then yes, Israel would be a good example to follow.

What a twisted exaggeration. Israel gave up Gaza. Israel was attacked by several nations starting from her beginning. Let us know when Israel invades Poland. Bottom line is the Israel demonizers don't want Israel to exist in any borders. They're not fooling anybody.

Why do they hate Israel so much that they put so much energy into working against her existence?

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I want Israel to end its state of denial (as do the OP Breaking the Silence), face up to the atrocities and injustices it commits against its Palestinian neighbors, move forward and join the family of civilized 21st century democracies.

That is the only way it will continue to exist, by facing reality and making a just peace. It is the alternative that is its own self destruct button.

[Linky]

The IDF worked with commendable restraint what ever the anti semetic lefties and the Islamsist hate machine says. The whole of the Arab world could learn a lot to their benefit from the State of Israel and it's people.

Then i am sure they have nothing to fear and will cooperate fully with the international criminal court ?

[Jingthing]

The IDF worked with commendable restraint what ever the anti semetic lefties and the Islamsist hate machine says. The whole of the Arab world could learn a lot to their benefit from the State of Israel and it's people.

Then i am sure they have nothing to fear and will cooperate fully with the international criminal court ?

Is there an active case? Which court? Is Hamas being charged as well?

Edited May 10, 2015 by Jingthing

[dexterm]

The IDF worked with commendable restraint what ever the anti semetic lefties and the Islamsist hate machine says. The whole of the Arab world could learn a lot to their benefit from the State of Israel and it's people.

Then i am sure they have nothing to fear and will cooperate fully with the international criminal court ?

Is there an active case? Which court? Is Hamas being charged as well?

"The ICC's chief prosecutor launched a "preliminary examination" in January, after the Palestinians signed its founding treaty, the Rome Statute.

Although Israel has not ratified the Rome Statute, its military and civilian leaders could face charges if they are believed to have committed crimes on Palestinian territory.

Palestinian militants will also be open to prosecution."

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-32144186

If either side have been found to have committed war crimes, so be it. I cannot understand what the problem is about exposing and knowing the truth.

[JingerBen]

Breaking the Silence with its investigation of Israeli war crimes is a major threat to the radical Zionists who run the country. Moderate Israelis see a descent into neo-barbarism as the end of Israel as anything other than a rogue state. God didn't give the Jews this land. The international community - acting through the United Nations - gave it to them. They occupied part of British Mandate Palestine with the pledge to live together with the indigenous people on terms of equality and justice.

Given the disaster that the history of Israel has been more or less continuously since its founding in 1948, the efforts at peaceful co-existence have been self-evident failures. The Zionist dream of Eretz Israel with the related land-grabs and displacement of people has created a permanent state of hostility in the region and led to the isolation of Israel as a pariah state. The real "existential threat" doesn't come from a non-existent Iranian nuclear bomb or sporadic acts of terrorism... it comes from the State of Palestine gaining recognition and membership in international organizations like the ICC.

The Palestinians will have the same chance to gain support from the world community that the ANC had in Apartheid South Africa.

[Jingthing]

Jews are indigenous people in Israel.

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[dexterm]

Jews are indigenous people in Israel.

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So were the Canaanites and Philistines, so why can't the Israelites just share the land with the descendants of all the peoples, and stop fighting each other. They all share to some extent common features of a Levant ethnicity.

Edited May 11, 2015 by dexterm

[Throatwobbler]

I didn't know that all Lefties are anti Jewish too. I am very much a leftie but it sounds like I have been letting the side down by being totally not anti Jewish. I must do better. Really by junior school kids make better arguments than some of the posters on here.

[Throatwobbler]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

The IDF worked with commendable restraint what ever the anti semetic lefties and the Islamsist hate machine says. The whole of the Arab world could learn a lot to their benefit from the State of Israel and it's people.

If territorial expansion is what they want to learn how to do successfully, then yes, Israel would be a good example to follow.

What a twisted exaggeration. Israel gave up Gaza. Israel was attacked by several nations starting from her beginning. Let us know when Israel invades Poland. Bottom line is the Israel demonizers don't want Israel to exist in any borders. They're not fooling anybody.

Why do they hate Israel so much that they put so much energy into working against her existence?
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Do you really think that the people who are posting against Israeli war crimes actually don't want Israel to exist? Is that what you really think? Is that how blinkered your views are?

[Jingthing]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

The IDF worked with commendable restraint what ever the anti semetic lefties and the Islamsist hate machine says. The whole of the Arab world could learn a lot to their benefit from the State of Israel and it's people.

If territorial expansion is what they want to learn how to do successfully, then yes, Israel would be a good example to follow.

What a twisted exaggeration. Israel gave up Gaza. Israel was attacked by several nations starting from her beginning. Let us know when Israel invades Poland. Bottom line is the Israel demonizers don't want Israel to exist in any borders. They're not fooling anybody.

Why do they hate Israel so much that they put so much energy into working against her existence?

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Do you really think that the people who are posting against Israeli war crimes actually don't want Israel to exist? Is that what you really think? Is that how blinkered your views are?

Yes, I do think that many do, but certainly not all. The TRUTH of the matter is that the "Palestinian" movement for "right of return" to Israel has a genocidal agenda against Jews. This is easily discovered. The more moderate want to flood Israel with Arabs and then "ask" the Jews to leave and then mass murder those that stay and fight ... total genocide of Jews. The more radical ones don't even want to ask.

I do tie the obsession of Israeli demonizers with supposed "war crimes" when it is not balanced with criticisms of other governments doing worse is closely linked to this end Israel movement (which of course if successful would translate into mass genocide of Jews).

I would assert those that don't see that are the blinkered ones.

My assertions are not a case of paranoia. Paranoia is when you think people are out to get you but they aren't. Large parts of the Arab and Muslim world are definitely out to get the Jews OUT of Israel. Israel if she wants to exist, has no choice but to have a strong military and to use it when attacked, as from Hamas. And no, there is no rule that the casualties must be even and a stalemate reached from war actions. The goal of Israel perhaps should have been even more aggressive, not against civilians of course, but against Hamas ... Israel has every justification to CRUSH Hamas, a ruling organization on public record favoring genocide against Jews.

Edited May 11, 2015 by Jingthing

[Chicog]

In certain peoples' eyes, two groups can do no wrong: Israeli Jews and White Cops.

[thaibeachlovers]

The IDF worked with commendable restraint what ever the anti semetic lefties and the Islamsist hate machine says. The whole of the Arab world could learn a lot to their benefit from the State of Israel and it's people.

If territorial expansion is what they want to learn how to do successfully, then yes, Israel would be a good example to follow.

What a twisted exaggeration. Israel gave up Gaza. Israel was attacked by several nations starting from her beginning. Let us know when Israel invades Poland. Bottom line is the Israel demonizers don't want Israel to exist in any borders. They're not fooling anybody.

Why do they hate Israel so much that they put so much energy into working against her existence?

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Zionists were actively attacking Palestinians and the British before Israel was created by the UN. They also attacked the local Palestinians after the state was created, striving to drive them out in a campaign of ethnic cleansing that had been planned for years.

Zionists even had a flag that included Trans Jordan in the state they wanted to create.

The day Israel goes back to the legal boundaries as given by the UN in 1948, is the day I'll stop criticising it.