Clinton challenges Bush on immigration as Republicans shift

[NeverSure]

The actual beliefs of these immigrants are more aligned to Republicans than Democrats except for the immigration. They are Catholic Christians, family oriented, hard working, good students and so on. If the Republicans lose this after a big fight they will lose them for at least a couple of generations.

The Democrats get about 90% of the black vote due to what happened in the 1960's and the low information voters fail to see that the plight of blacks hasn't improved that much despite Johnson's Great Society. Some think that The Great Society was an enabler which allowed people to lay back and expect the government to take care of them. The school dropout rate is astronomical despite affirmative action and desegregation and the crime rate is through the roof.

The Hispanics aren't like that in that they'll do almost any kind of job and provide a disproportionate share of the low paying hard labor for the manual labor jobs.

We never, ever should have gotten this far and both parties have failed to stop it even when they had control of the White House and Congress.

Edited May 9, 2015 by NeverSure

[Credo]

There is so much bile that infuses the conversation regarding immigration, I don't know whether any politician, because they are politicians, actually have the balls (inc Hillary) to actually confront the entrenched opinions and move it forward.

Like many others, my Grandparents were legal immigrants, except they didn't arrive through the postcard image of Ellis Island, they just crossed the border from Tijuana and were processed just like the millions from Europe in Ellis Island. But thats the point 'legal' immigration was easy, it was fast, documented and people assimilated.

I speak Spanish (just) but thats primarily because my family when they came, and they came to work, wanted to become Americans and they wanted their kids to be English speaking Americans.

Few, if any immigrants come to the US because of the lure of massive welfare checks...if they wanted that they'd stay on the bus until they got to Canada , or head to Europe.

If truth be told, the immigration debate is more about the fear of ethnicity rather than immigration. The problem is, the more you drive it underground the less likely you will have immigrants like my grandparents who want assimilate, and you will create your own worst nightmare.

Bravo to any politician who's willing to open that can of worms!

The 20 million illegal aliens -- who are not immigrants - did not come into the USA legally... thus the reason they are called Illegal Aliens - which by the way is a term contained in the U.S. Federal Code - along with Resident Legal Aliens. I posted this before -- but posters do not read - they just see the headline and post ... The U.S. has a legal immigration system that allows more new potential citizens into the USA on an annual basis that is more than all other countries do in a similar nature in one year COMBINED... We do our part - more than our part.

Illegal Aliens in the last 15 years have been wage busters reducing construction wages by almost 1/2 - same with trades such as meat packers. Illegal Aliens have caused significant unemployment is certain segments of the job economy. Illegal Aliens have wholesale stolen Social Security Numbers to work and in the process have ruined the credit rating of hundreds of thousands of Americans. There are tens of millions of people around the world who would like to be Americans but they cannot just walk across the U.S. Border . Illegal Aliens from Central America and Mexico do not have a universal right to move to America... no more so than the people of the rest of the world... Illegal Aliens have no special right to come to America under the U.S. Constitution. Coming to America by crossing over from a Mexican city and being legally processed into legal residents was stopped many years ago - mainly because it was unfair to potential legal immigrants from around the world... But Mexicans and Central Americans want to assume that they have a special right to go around the proper Immigration lines to get in...

Democrats want illegal aliens to eventually become dependent compliant voters, the business establishment of the Republican Party want cheap labor to exploit... The tax paying citizens of America are left holding the bag to pay for it all. But nearsighted Americans want to blame it on that old canard racism ... The resistance to massive Amnesty is because of fairness, the rule of law and the FACT that wholesale allowance of illegal aliens to become citizens is simply not needed. Tax paying Citizens of America have a right to chose what is needed for America - the country that they are citizens of and for which they pay.

Funny thing about the attitude of illegal aliens and their pushers... when ask if it would be okay if 20 million other people from around the world - from such countries as India, China, Thailand, Serbia, Croatia, the African countries, etc. could have the place they are occupying in America - since it would be fair and it would demonstrate that Americans are not racist... Would that be okay with you ... of course the answer is NO .... and the reason is Well we deserve it ... And for what? Because they live 1 kilometer over the border in another country - they have special rights over all other citizens of the world? But this is exactly what the illegal aliens are doing when they break in to the USA or over stay their visas is to deny a chance for other people around the world to apply to be U.S. Citizens. But they are special people with special privileges don't ya' know.

Complete and total misinformation and diversion. First of all the people getting social security numbers can't access the accounts. They can pay into it, but they can't collect from it. How on earth they can ruin the credit rating of 'hundreds of thousands' of peoples credit rating is unbelievable.

I wonder if it's so bad, why the Republicans are backing the same sort of thing as the Democrats?

[GinBoy2]

There is so much bile that infuses the conversation regarding immigration, I don't know whether any politician, because they are politicians, actually have the balls (inc Hillary) to actually confront the entrenched opinions and move it forward.

Like many others, my Grandparents were legal immigrants, except they didn't arrive through the postcard image of Ellis Island, they just crossed the border from Tijuana and were processed just like the millions from Europe in Ellis Island. But thats the point 'legal' immigration was easy, it was fast, documented and people assimilated.

I speak Spanish (just) but thats primarily because my family when they came, and they came to work, wanted to become Americans and they wanted their kids to be English speaking Americans.

Few, if any immigrants come to the US because of the lure of massive welfare checks...if they wanted that they'd stay on the bus until they got to Canada , or head to Europe.

If truth be told, the immigration debate is more about the fear of ethnicity rather than immigration. The problem is, the more you drive it underground the less likely you will have immigrants like my grandparents who want assimilate, and you will create your own worst nightmare.

Bravo to any politician who's willing to open that can of worms!

The 20 million illegal aliens -- who are not immigrants - did not come into the USA legally... thus the reason they are called Illegal Aliens - which by the way is a term contained in the U.S. Federal Code - along with Resident Legal Aliens. I posted this before -- but posters do not read - they just see the headline and post ... The U.S. has a legal immigration system that allows more new potential citizens into the USA on an annual basis that is more than all other countries do in a similar nature in one year COMBINED... We do our part - more than our part.

Illegal Aliens in the last 15 years have been wage busters reducing construction wages by almost 1/2 - same with trades such as meat packers. Illegal Aliens have caused significant unemployment is certain segments of the job economy. Illegal Aliens have wholesale stolen Social Security Numbers to work and in the process have ruined the credit rating of hundreds of thousands of Americans. There are tens of millions of people around the world who would like to be Americans but they cannot just walk across the U.S. Border . Illegal Aliens from Central America and Mexico do not have a universal right to move to America... no more so than the people of the rest of the world... Illegal Aliens have no special right to come to America under the U.S. Constitution. Coming to America by crossing over from a Mexican city and being legally processed into legal residents was stopped many years ago - mainly because it was unfair to potential legal immigrants from around the world... But Mexicans and Central Americans want to assume that they have a special right to go around the proper Immigration lines to get in...

Democrats want illegal aliens to eventually become dependent compliant voters, the business establishment of the Republican Party want cheap labor to exploit... The tax paying citizens of America are left holding the bag to pay for it all. But nearsighted Americans want to blame it on that old canard racism ... The resistance to massive Amnesty is because of fairness, the rule of law and the FACT that wholesale allowance of illegal aliens to become citizens is simply not needed. Tax paying Citizens of America have a right to chose what is needed for America - the country that they are citizens of and for which they pay.

Funny thing about the attitude of illegal aliens and their pushers... when ask if it would be okay if 20 million other people from around the world - from such countries as India, China, Thailand, Serbia, Croatia, the African countries, etc. could have the place they are occupying in America - since it would be fair and it would demonstrate that Americans are not racist... Would that be okay with you ... of course the answer is NO .... and the reason is Well we deserve it ... And for what? Because they live 1 kilometer over the border in another country - they have special rights over all other citizens of the world? But this is exactly what the illegal aliens are doing when they break in to the USA or over stay their visas is to deny a chance for other people around the world to apply to be U.S. Citizens. But they are special people with special privileges don't ya' know.

You actually highlight a good part of the narrative:

Are they welfare scroungers, or depressing wages?

Well couple of points there. If you really are concerned about the depression of average wages, globalization and the sweat shops of asia I would suggest contribute 1000% more than the illegal mowing your lawn.

I grew up in the California central valley, and I can tell you, all the farmers that knowingly employed the illegal farm workers, harvest the food you eat, not a one, not a one of those guys was a Democrat, Liberal or anything close. Sometimes a little self introspection does wonders to clear the thought process