Unexpected triumph means Cameron can govern UK on his own

[thaibeachlovers]

I'm glad the Tories won. A return to Labour tax and spend would have been disastrous for the UK.

Hopefully they will now start to cut off the dole to people fully able to work that have been accustomed to sitting in their susidised council houses and doing nothing while people from all over the world go to do the jobs they are too idle to do.

[thaibeachlovers]

The mis-representation of the majority in UK is cause for concern for any supporter of inclusive democracy. It's easy to have adversarial politics and FPTP election system, so that's what we have, but the result is that the majority are disenfranchised, they did not vote for the people that now govern them. Such situations cause at minimum a high level of discontent, and in flash points, much more direct action against the unwanted rulers.

Party membership is such that after Cons and Lab, the 3rd largest membership in all of the UK is SNP, so it is no surprise that they did well and now wield some influence in Westminster.

UKIP have 33 seats. I'd like to see them in a union with the Tories so Cameron can give the middle finger to the SNP. Up to them ( SNP ) it'd be back to tax and waste of public funds. End of austerity my bottom!

[thaibeachlovers]

I think the biggest shock is the result in Scotland.

Having rejected independence, 50% of Scottish voters then voted for the SNP!

A huge swing to them from both Labour and the LibDems .

The Tory vote dropped by a only couple of per cent and they retained their one seat.

The big question is why?

Personally, I feel that Milliband's remarks about the SNP made a huge difference there, as did Labour's 'borrow and spend' policy. But, historically, the Tories have always done badly in Scotland so Scottish voters couldn't bring themselves to vote for them, and turned their backs on the LibDems as they saw a vote for them being a vote for a Tory/LibDem coalition.

Sturgeon is, understandably, jubilant and will doubtless make much of this result; but the result was more of a protest vote, against Labour in particular, than a vote for her party.

There's no shock there. The Scots appear to have become the people of "gimme".with their long time support of Labour. The SNP chorus of "An End to Austerity" appealed more than Labour's failed promises of the past.

[thaibeachlovers]

I would offer the suggestion of optional preferential voting. That is you make one vote and then put in a second or third preference if you choose. First past the post is good in two party systems, but becomes unreflective of the electorate when there are many parties with a following.

The country is an integral part of Europe so the more fragmented political cliques the UK has the better it is for political stability that it has the first past the post system.

I'm thinking Oswald Mosley, Enoch Powell, UKIP, also concentrated populations of Sharia voters and the like. UKIP finished second in a number of constituencies so imagine if UK had proportional representation....or perhaps some in UK are indeed imagining it.

The just crashed instance of even the essentially mainstream LibDems entering into government and their stomping by the voters yesterday constitutes an excellent illustration of how the vast majority of voters prefer the larger and centrist parties in government, no matter.

Europe invariably gets itself into serious trouble when the political center has to compromise with marginal political parties. The record in the UK in this respect is nowhere near as atrocious as on the continent itself, but let's not tempt fate. Yes to first past the post in UK. Proportional representation in places such as Australia poses no such threat as it could in UK or on the continent.

fragmented parties will be irrelevant when the referendum is held.

I hope they stay in, but with significant improvements in the treaty for Britain.

[thaibeachlovers]

A long detailed article outlining everything going on in the U.K... and not one time the word Muslim was used... Wow! I didn't know the Muslim problem had been resolved...

No surprise there. All politicians in the major parties are too gutless to touch the subject.

[simple1]

A long detailed article outlining everything going on in the U.K... and not one time the word Muslim was used... Wow! I didn't know the Muslim problem had been resolved...

No surprise there. All politicians in the major parties are too gutless to touch the subject.

The Conservative Manifesto 2015 talks to Islamic extremism issues; read the section headed Preventing terrorism, countering extremism.

https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/manifesto2015/ConservativeManifesto2015.pdf

Cameron gave an interview for the "Muslim News" a sample quote...

"In the Conservative manifesto, the Party says it will bring in more legislation including the introduction of new Banning Orders for extremist organisations that fall short of the existing thresholds for proscription"

http://www.muslimnews.co.uk/news/uk/muslims-should-not-be-viewed-through-prism-of-security-says-cameron-in-an-exclusive-interview/

13 Muslims MP's elected to Parliament, eight of whom are women

[JockPieandBeans]

13 Muslims MP's elected to Parliament, eight of whom are women

Perhaps this will help you make sense of it.

http://globemuslims.com/en/news/9152/13-muslim-mps-elected-in-Britain

On party numbers, Labour has nine Muslim MPs, the Tories three and the SNP one. Despite fielding 24 Muslim candidates all in unwinnable seats, the Lib Dems have yet to have a Muslim MP. Of the total of 13 Muslim MPs, six are women.

The Demography of Labour votes here.

http://news.sky.com/election/results

From the source above.

One of the most surprising was mental health campaigner Naz Shah winning Bradford West back for Labour with a majority of 11,420 against Respect party leader George Galloway who had won the seat in a landslide bi-election in 2012.

Which is now subject to a Police probe.

Alleged smearing, online trolling, assault and a possible infringement of election law are all being investigated by police after the bitter election battle between Respect's George Galloway and Labour's Naz Shah.

http://news.sky.com/story/1481024/police-probes-after-bitter-bradford-west-fight

[Basil B]

Well the Tories have a majority of 12...

Well actually 16 if you take into account the 4 Sinn Fein seats that will almost certainly will never be taken.

That means it would take more than 16 Tories to revolt and abstain or 8 to vote against the government assuming all the other parties vote against which I doubt would never happen as the minor parties are likely to vote on the merit of the bill ratter than just to defeat the government and as their party aims differ it is highly unlikely they would all vote the same way.

So probably for any Tory bill to be defeated it will need more than 25 backbenchers to vote against or more than 50 to abstain.

As for my politics...

I was for many years a member of the Young Liberals, then member of the SDP and then the Lib Dems...

It was the 70s and early 80s when I was most active, even standing as a paper candidate for local government in un-winnable wards, just to ensure the party had a candidate on the ballot paper.

Then it happened, 1982... lined up as paper candidate in a ward that was not winnable (well at the time not thought so) but had been worked hard and showing better than average returns, reason for being on the ballot paper in this ward was there had been massive boundary changes of all wards and it was a clean sweep of all counsellors, that meant there were 3 counsellors to be elected from each ward, each voter had 3 votes, and each party put up 3 candidates.

Then it happened woke up one morning a few weeks before the election, we were leading the poles on 42%, reality hit me I was standing for election to be counsellor for Birmingham City Council... where it is more than just a full time job, highly unlikely I could keep my current job... would have to live of expenses and would have no time for other interests, fortunately for me (not the SDP as it was then) the bubble burst when the Arggies sank the Sheffield.

I resigned the Lib Dems 5 years ago not for the reason so many others did but I had not attended any meetings or campaigned for may years and had just been made redundant, as for what Nick Clegg did I feel he did the best thing for this country, supporting the party with the most votes and MP's, the Tories were moderated yet we now have a stable platform on which to get out debt and build a prosperous Britain.

For me the kicking the Lib Dems got was not deserved, and from now on I have decided (well for the time being) to support the party that suits ME and my interests, and that is the Tories, a big jump in the stock market and that means my pension pot will grow nicely, and the pound is strengthening, OK for my next Holiday.

Bring on the cuts, "I am all right Jack".

[Steely Dan]

Regarding the demagogic troll George Galloway, his defeat in Bradford West leaves him free to campaign to become Caliph of Londonistan, providing he is not first martyred by the police for breaking electoral law, not to mention his departing speech, which was vile even by his standards.

The picture of his ugly mug hear is priceless.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/generalelection/naz-shah-interview-labours-new-mp-for-bradford-west-on-beating-rival-george-galloway--and-considering-legal-action-against-him-10238901.html

Edited May 10, 2015 by Steely Dan

[twocatsmac]

Well the Tories have a majority of 12...

Well actually 16 if you take into account the 4 Sinn Fein seats that will almost certainly will never be taken.

That means it would take more than 16 Tories to revolt and abstain or 8 to vote against the government assuming all the other parties vote against which I doubt would never happen as the minor parties are likely to vote on the merit of the bill ratter than just to defeat the government and as their party aims differ it is highly unlikely they would all vote the same way.

So probably for any Tory bill to be defeated it will need more than 25 backbenchers to vote against or more than 50 to abstain.

As for my politics...

I was for many years a member of the Young Liberals, then member of the SDP and then the Lib Dems...

It was the 70s and early 80s when I was most active, even standing as a paper candidate for local government in un-winnable wards, just to ensure the party had a candidate on the ballot paper.

Then it happened, 1982... lined up as paper candidate in a ward that was not winnable (well at the time not thought so) but had been worked hard and showing better than average returns, reason for being on the ballot paper in this ward was there had been massive boundary changes of all wards and it was a clean sweep of all counsellors, that meant there were 3 counsellors to be elected from each ward, each voter had 3 votes, and each party put up 3 candidates.

Then it happened woke up one morning a few weeks before the election, we were leading the poles on 42%, reality hit me I was standing for election to be counsellor for Birmingham City Council... where it is more than just a full time job, highly unlikely I could keep my current job... would have to live of expenses and would have no time for other interests, fortunately for me (not the SDP as it was then) the bubble burst when the Arggies sank the Sheffield.

I resigned the Lib Dems 5 years ago not for the reason so many others did but I had not attended any meetings or campaigned for may years and had just been made redundant, as for what Nick Clegg did I feel he did the best thing for this country, supporting the party with the most votes and MP's, the Tories were moderated yet we now have a stable platform on which to get out debt and build a prosperous Britain.

For me the kicking the Lib Dems got was not deserved, and from now on I have decided (well for the time being) to support the party that suits ME and my interests, and that is the Tories, a big jump in the stock market and that means my pension pot will grow nicely, and the pound is strengthening, OK for my next Holiday.

Bring on the cuts, "I am all right Jack".

I'm alright jack looking after number one too.

That's an honest post you made and Nick Clegg is probably the most decent politician since

old Thatch.

He's an honourable bloke and deserved to be re elected as mp for Sheffield Hallam.

Times move on and the UK needs to re arrange the human rights fiasco.Meaning a liberal in the cabinet

is a liability.

[Jingthing]

A view from Washington.

Watch out U.K, or you'll become a "rump" state.

First time I've heard that expression. Rump state.

While a rump steak is tasty, who wants a rump state?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/election-may-set-britain-on-a-path-to-becoming-little-england/2015/05/09/80316f94-f4fb-11e4-bca5-21b51bbdf93e_story.html?hpid=z1

Thursday’s election may become just the first in a trilogy of rapid-fire votes that set this island adrift from Europe, divide it in half along ancient lines of national identity and ultimately leave behind a rump state of ever-diminishing value to its American allies.

[simple1]

A view from Washington.

Watch out U.K, or you'll become a "rump" state.

First time I've heard that expression. Rump state.

While a rump steak is tasty, who wants a rump state?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/election-may-set-britain-on-a-path-to-becoming-little-england/2015/05/09/80316f94-f4fb-11e4-bca5-21b51bbdf93e_story.html?hpid=z1

Thursday’s election may become just the first in a trilogy of rapid-fire votes that set this island adrift from Europe, divide it in half along ancient lines of national identity and ultimately leave behind a rump state of ever-diminishing value to its American allies.

Considering your interest in politics I'm surprised JT. As a matter of historical interest first used in mid 17th century in the UK.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rump_organization

[Jingthing]

A view from Washington.

Watch out U.K, or you'll become a "rump" state.

First time I've heard that expression. Rump state.

While a rump steak is tasty, who wants a rump state?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/election-may-set-britain-on-a-path-to-becoming-little-england/2015/05/09/80316f94-f4fb-11e4-bca5-21b51bbdf93e_story.html?hpid=z1

Thursday’s election may become just the first in a trilogy of rapid-fire votes that set this island adrift from Europe, divide it in half along ancient lines of national identity and ultimately leave behind a rump state of ever-diminishing value to its American allies.

Considering your interest in politics I'm surprised JT. As a matter of historical interest first used in mid 17th century in the UK.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rump_organization

Well, now I know.

To Brits, rump doesn't bring butts to mind?

How is making a state smaller related to butts?

[simple1]

A view from Washington.

Watch out U.K, or you'll become a "rump" state.

First time I've heard that expression. Rump state.

While a rump steak is tasty, who wants a rump state?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/election-may-set-britain-on-a-path-to-becoming-little-england/2015/05/09/80316f94-f4fb-11e4-bca5-21b51bbdf93e_story.html?hpid=z1

Thursday’s election may become just the first in a trilogy of rapid-fire votes that set this island adrift from Europe, divide it in half along ancient lines of national identity and ultimately leave behind a rump state of ever-diminishing value to its American allies.

Considering your interest in politics I'm surprised JT. As a matter of historical interest first used in mid 17th century in the UK.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rump_organization

Well, now I know.

To Brits, rump doesn't bring butts to mind?

How is making a state smaller related to butts?

Old English, can also infer 'remnant'

Edited May 10, 2015 by simple1

[englishoak]

A few reasons.

1 The SNP all but declaring they would be in with Labour no matter what Ed said.

2 Ed on TV telling people he wasnt going to do a deal with the SNP no matter even though it was the ONLY way to form a government

3 Ed on TVt refusing to accept Labour was responsible for the debts they left or apologise for it.

4 Labour accepted they would borrow but still cut a bit whilst the SNP made it very clear it would want to borrow massively again and stop any cuts all together.

5 England apart from old Labour strongholds isnt socialist red and hasnt been for decades. Tory Blair came up with new Labour to fit and Ed took it in the wrong direction.

6 Ed refused to give the people a referendum on the EU and so did all his possible coalition partners.

The country simply didnt believe Ed on the SNP or trust him with the economy,

England was left with little real choice, the only option left that wouldnt need the SNP, give people a choice on the EU, and look after the economy responsibly were ..........The Tories.

in a nutshell the SNP in Scotland scared and motivated the rest of the UK to vote Tory, certainly enough to get a clear majority, well done the Scots

England is not socialist and hasnt been for decades. The only ones left voting socialist style Labour are the die hards from the black country and pit regions. Labour never stood a chance from day 1 of Choosing Ed as leader 3 years ago, the country has long since moved on from flirting with socialism in the 70s.

This picture says it all.

Next election itll be back to a Tory Blair style Labour centre ground you watch

[Basil B]

Probably the term Socialists should be replaced with Scargillists...

Hate mob in No.10 rampage: Hard Left's shame as rioters attack police and deface WWII memorial as socialists lay siege to Downing Street

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3074951/Socialist-siege-Downing-Street-Hard-left-activists-clash-police-following-David-Cameron-s-triumphant-return-Number-10.html

This is the backbone of the Labour Party, thank god they are not in government.

[Jay Sata]

I'm glad the Tories won. A return to Labour tax and spend would have been disastrous for the UK.

Hopefully they will now start to cut off the dole to people fully able to work that have been accustomed to sitting in their susidised council houses and doing nothing while people from all over the world go to do the jobs they are too idle to do.

I have to agree. The reason so many came off the dole during the last government is the weeding out of those with black economy jobs while claiming unemployment benefit.

Estates full of layabout families where three generations have never worked apart from producing sprogs,watching tv and sponging off the state need to be spring cleaned.

I read the Tories plan to 'lance the EU boil' as a matter of priority. Lets hope this includes the legal gravy train that is powered by the EU Human Rights act. The UK managed with a human rights act since we got Magna Carta.

I want to see offeneders returned to enjoy the human rights in the country from which they came and that includes serving jail sentences there.

Unemployed and unemployable enjoying expensive public housing should do what everyone else has to do when money is tight and move to a cheaper area such as the north east.

If just a fraction of the residents of Tower Hamlets were moved to Hull or Grimsby their social housing could provide accomodation for nurses,firemen and much needed public service empoyees who have to pay thei rown way.

[thaibeachlovers]

A long detailed article outlining everything going on in the U.K... and not one time the word Muslim was used... Wow! I didn't know the Muslim problem had been resolved...

No surprise there. All politicians in the major parties are too gutless to touch the subject.

The Conservative Manifesto 2015 talks to Islamic extremism issues; read the section headed Preventing terrorism, countering extremism.

https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/manifesto2015/ConservativeManifesto2015.pdf

Cameron gave an interview for the "Muslim News" a sample quote...

"In the Conservative manifesto, the Party says it will bring in more legislation including the introduction of new Banning Orders for extremist organisations that fall short of the existing thresholds for proscription"

http://www.muslimnews.co.uk/news/uk/muslims-should-not-be-viewed-through-prism-of-security-says-cameron-in-an-exclusive-interview/

13 Muslims MP's elected to Parliament, eight of whom are women

I'm happy to be wrong, but it's not enough.

[MAJIC]

Let's face it Ed lost the plot for labour.

Knowing that it was due to be a closely run election, making a statement such as "if being prime minister meant a deal with the SNP then there would be no Labour government" was ridiculous. Maybe that's his true feeling but to speak it out is political suicide.

Saying there would definitely be no referendum on Europe also turned a lot of people off.

Sometimes it's what you don't say that gets you over the line.

If Scotland still likes the SNP in a couple of years, it will be decades before Labour gets into power again.

I'm sure Scotland will like the SNP and what they expect to gain from numerous financial demands, it's when they find out the rest of the UK can't pay,that the SNP bright Liights will dim somewhat!

[Basil B]

Let's face it Ed lost the plot for labour.

Knowing that it was due to be a closely run election, making a statement such as "if being prime minister meant a deal with the SNP then there would be no Labour government" was ridiculous. Maybe that's his true feeling but to speak it out is political suicide.

Saying there would definitely be no referendum on Europe also turned a lot of people off.

Sometimes it's what you don't say that gets you over the line.

If Scotland still likes the SNP in a couple of years, it will be decades before Labour gets into power again.

I'm sure Scotland will like the SNP and what they expect to gain from numerous financial demands, it's when they find out the rest of the UK can't pay,that the SNP bright Liights will dim somewhat!

can't won't

There will be an awful lot of hot air from Tartan Knickers & co, but even with 56 MP's they have no bargaining power.

[7by7]

A long detailed article outlining everything going on in the U.K... and not one time the word Muslim was used... Wow! I didn't know the Muslim problem had been resolved...

No surprise there. All politicians in the major parties are too gutless to touch the subject.

The Conservative Manifesto 2015 talks to Islamic extremism issues; read the section headed Preventing terrorism, countering extremism.

https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/manifesto2015/ConservativeManifesto2015.pdf

Cameron gave an interview for the "Muslim News" a sample quote...

"In the Conservative manifesto, the Party says it will bring in more legislation including the introduction of new Banning Orders for extremist organisations that fall short of the existing thresholds for proscription"

http://www.muslimnews.co.uk/news/uk/muslims-should-not-be-viewed-through-prism-of-security-says-cameron-in-an-exclusive-interview/

13 Muslims MP's elected to Parliament, eight of whom are women

I'm happy to be wrong, but it's not enough.

So you think 13 Muslim MPs aren't enough.

How many would you like?

[englishoak]

Let's face it Ed lost the plot for labour.

Knowing that it was due to be a closely run election, making a statement such as "if being prime minister meant a deal with the SNP then there would be no Labour government" was ridiculous. Maybe that's his true feeling but to speak it out is political suicide.

Saying there would definitely be no referendum on Europe also turned a lot of people off.

Sometimes it's what you don't say that gets you over the line.

If Scotland still likes the SNP in a couple of years, it will be decades before Labour gets into power again.

I'm sure Scotland will like the SNP and what they expect to gain from numerous financial demands, it's when they find out the rest of the UK can't pay,that the SNP bright Liights will dim somewhat!

They want control over their own budget and probably will be given more fiscal autonomy but most fully expect the Tories to put on the proviso that Scotland sets and raises its own tax to pay for its choices and debts and the rest of the UK stops subsidising them.

In other words they will probably be offered financial autonomy to do as they wish including stopping austerity but will also be expected to pay for it themselves. The SNP are probably going to want to spread the transition over years so it keeps getting subsidised but will still want to stop any cuts now,

Currently Scotland falls short by around 14% of taxes to pay for its running costs and the rest of the UK picks up and pays for the shortfall. Scotland is subsidised by about £1400 more per head per annum than the rest of the UK and that is far from fair either.

If the Tories are smart they will allow fiscal autonomy but only if it makes the Scotland fully responsible of how to pay for its own spending. The SNP will have to raise taxes to do so and then we shall see how happy the Scots are in 5 years.

The Independence thing has got a lot of people thinking and talking in England and wondering why England dosnt also start looking after its own people first too. I think as time goes on the UK is likely to move towards a federal UK solution. With the Welsh and the Scots wanting more autonomy and having their own parliaments it makes sense, England wants its own parliament too for English laws.

Give the regions and people what they want, when Scotland's business rates and income tax are much higher than Englands lets see if the people there are prepared to pay that price for those who need/want financial support.

Edited May 11, 2015 by englishoak

[twocatsmac]

A long detailed article outlining everything going on in the U.K... and not one time the word Muslim was used... Wow! I didn't know the Muslim problem had been resolved...

No surprise there. All politicians in the major parties are too gutless to touch the subject.

The Conservative Manifesto 2015 talks to Islamic extremism issues; read the section headed Preventing terrorism, countering extremism.

https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/manifesto2015/ConservativeManifesto2015.pdf

Cameron gave an interview for the "Muslim News" a sample quote...

"In the Conservative manifesto, the Party says it will bring in more legislation including the introduction of new Banning Orders for extremist organisations that fall short of the existing thresholds for proscription"


http://www.muslimnews.co.uk/news/uk/muslims-should-not-be-viewed-through-prism-of-security-says-cameron-in-an-exclusive-interview/


13 Muslims MP's elected to Parliament, eight of whom are women

I'm happy to be wrong, but it's not enough.

So you think 13 Muslim MPs aren't enough.

How many would you like?

650 on November the 5th.

[thaibeachlovers]

No surprise there. All politicians in the major parties are too gutless to touch the subject.

The Conservative Manifesto 2015 talks to Islamic extremism issues; read the section headed Preventing terrorism, countering extremism.

https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/manifesto2015/ConservativeManifesto2015.pdf

Cameron gave an interview for the "Muslim News" a sample quote...

"In the Conservative manifesto, the Party says it will bring in more legislation including the introduction of new Banning Orders for extremist organisations that fall short of the existing thresholds for proscription"

http://www.muslimnews.co.uk/news/uk/muslims-should-not-be-viewed-through-prism-of-security-says-cameron-in-an-exclusive-interview/

13 Muslims MP's elected to Parliament, eight of whom are women

I'm happy to be wrong, but it's not enough.

So you think 13 Muslim MPs aren't enough.

How many would you like?

Sorry that I wasn't clear. Not enough politicians prepared to take on the Muslim fundamentalists.

[jayboy]

LOL! Lots of sore losers here. When you can't win, you want to change the rules of the game. Sounds like some of you have been too long in Thailand.

You mean the rules that give the prize to the first past the post? Not the ideal system, but it suits the two main parties; hence, it is unlikely to change any time soon.

Suited the SNP too.

[meltingpot2015]

The conservatives are now a party machine. The election campaign was like a jaggernaut. At one level tories (conservatives) were appealing to the undecided and also floating (tactical) voters, saying you have to vote tory or your vote will not count, it will be a wasted vote.

On another level, it backed a campaign (well thought-out) undermining the leader of the other parties. Especially, Nick Clegg and Ed Milliband.

1) Nick Clegg - When the lib-dems were campaigning. The tory party machine got a student to ask Clegg for selfie, and the student was told to drop his pants deliberately to cause Nick Clegg Embarrasment and ridicule. it scores points against Clegg through the electorate, also it puts Clegg off the election campaign, even briefly.

At one of the televised debates, a man asks Nick Clegg "What are your plans when you are kicked out after the General Election" - Nick Clegg was quick to respond "Charming!, no, I don't (have any plans)". That man knew the result of the election. He was so confident that the Tories would win. ELECTIONS SHOULD BE UNPREDICTABLE. The polling organisations could have got it wrong due to two reasons. One, due to the shy tories, two, due to some tory interference. Or a mixture of both.

2) Ed Milliband - Tories got all the media (Broadsheet and tabloids) to back them. Did you see that picture on the front page of the sun of Ed Milliband eating a bacon sandwich. Just that picture would have reached millions. It was on the front page, and it would have cost Ed and his party a lot of votes.

At one of the televised debates, a businesswoman owning a local business appears asked Ed Milliband as to why she should trust his party after last time and that big businesses (e.g tesco) are suffering. She was a stooge. She was playing homage to the Tories.

So all of the above happened at during the campaigning. In the UK it is illegal to smear an opponent in an election (unlike the USA where it is allowed), so all of the above happened covertly. We are talking something big, that's what a party machine is.

Look, this kind of election by Media has happened before, if you were visiting Australia during the Aus 2013 Federal Elections, you would have been able to tell how much the Media played a role in getting Abott and his boys elected.

At another level we have something introduced from the top. The Scottish referendum. Tories introduced it knowing full well that, if the SNP lost the referendum (i.e. Scotland remained part of the UK) that would fuel SNP supporters to send a message to Downing Street at the next election. i.e. SNP to do well in the General Election 2015. Is this bad?, for everyone that would like Scotland to remain as part of the UK. Yes. For tories wanting gains over labour at the election. NO!, its a welcome prospect. As it happens Labour lost many seats in Scotland, so did the lib Dems. Douglas Alexander and Danny Alexander both casualties.

The voters were, I'm afraid, duped to a large extend by the media in to believing that a vote for a "minor" party would result in a unpredictable result. SO anyone (mainly undecideds) then voted Tory at the last minute. This is one of the things with first past the post, the tactical vote, is an unsavory part. It can damage the two "major" parties, so if the tories capitalize on this and the media shouts this from the rooftops, it could sway, most of the tactical/undecided voters. Those voters could have done three things..actually four things. One - To vote for their minor party (UKIP, Greens). And there was a large number of votes for these parties, however, these votes did not translate to seats.

Two - Go to vote but spoil the ballot - To say I am not happy with any of the "major" parties. They could have wrote on the ballot "I vote for a more fairer PR electoral system"

Three - Not vote at all. Actually only 66.1% voted.

Four - Vote Conservative - A lot of undecided voters voted Conservative.

The only change from the politics as usual is to change the Electoral system to a more competitive one. (Under First-Past-the-Post, some seats are so safe, that there is very little point casting a ballot for another candidate other than the incumbent) PR is not the same, it provides other candidates a chance. But for any change in the electoral system there needs to be genuine effort by a) those holding power (the elite) AND/OR

by the people.

a) will not push for it - for obvious reasons.

It can only come from For that to happen the people will need to do something brave like what I have suggested above. i.e. Demand it at the next ballot.

Edited May 14, 2015 by meltingpot2015

[eliotness]

The conservatives are now a party machine. The election campaign was like a jaggernaut. At one level tories (conservatives) were appealing to the undecided and also floating (tactical) voters, saying you have to vote tory or your vote will not count, it will be a wasted vote.

On another level, it backed a campaign (well thought-out) undermining the leader of the other parties. Especially, Nick Clegg and Ed Milliband.

1) Nick Clegg - When the lib-dems were campaigning. The tory party machine got a student to ask Clegg for selfie, and the student was told to drop his pants deliberately to cause Nick Clegg Embarrasment and ridicule. it scores points against Clegg through the electorate, also it puts Clegg off the election campaign, even briefly.

At one of the televised debates, a man asks Nick Clegg "What are your plans when you are kicked out after the General Election" - Nick Clegg was quick to respond "Charming!, no, I don't (have any plans)". That man knew the result of the election. He was so confident that the Tories would win. ELECTIONS SHOULD BE UNPREDICTABLE. The polling organisations could have got it wrong due to two reasons. One, due to the shy tories, two, due to some tory interference. Or a mixture of both.

2) Ed Milliband - Tories got all the media (Broadsheet and tabloids) to back them. Did you see that picture on the front page of the sun of Ed Milliband eating a bacon sandwich. Just that picture would have reached millions. It was on the front page, and it would have cost Ed and his party a lot of votes.

At one of the televised debates, a businesswoman owning a local business appears asked Ed Milliband as to why she should trust his party after last time and that big businesses (e.g tesco) are suffering. She was a stooge. She was playing homage to the Tories.

So all of the above happened at during the campaigning. In the UK it is illegal to smear an opponent in an election (unlike the USA where it is allowed), so all of the above happened covertly. We are talking something big, that's what a party machine is.

Look, this kind of election by Media has happened before, if you were visiting Australia during the Aus 2013 Federal Elections, you would have been able to tell how much the Media played a role in getting Abott and his boys elected.

At another level we have something introduced from the top. The Scottish referendum. Tories introduced it knowing full well that, if the SNP lost the referendum (i.e. Scotland remained part of the UK) that would fuel SNP supporters to send a message to Downing Street at the next election. i.e. SNP to do well in the General Election 2015. Is this bad?, for everyone that would like Scotland to remain as part of the UK. Yes. For tories wanting gains over labour at the election. NO!, its a welcome prospect. As it happens Labour lost many seats in Scotland, so did the lib Dems. Douglas Alexander and Danny Alexander both casualties.

The voters were, I'm afraid, duped to a large extend by the media in to believing that a vote for a "minor" party would result in a unpredictable result. SO anyone (mainly undecideds) then voted Tory at the last minute. This is one of the things with first past the post, the tactical vote, is an unsavory part. It can damage the two "major" parties, so if the tories capitalize on this and the media shouts this from the rooftops, it could sway, most of the tactical/undecided voters. Those voters could have done three things..actually four things. One - To vote for their minor party (UKIP, Greens). And there was a large number of votes for these parties, however, these votes did not translate to seats.

Two - Go to vote but spoil the ballot - To say I am not happy with any of the "major" parties. They could have wrote on the ballot "I vote for a more fairer PR electoral system"

Three - Not vote at all. Actually only 66.1% voted.

Four - Vote Conservative - A lot of undecided voters voted Conservative.

The only change from the politics as usual is to change the Electoral system to a more competitive one. (Under First-Past-the-Post, some seats are so safe, that there is very little point casting a ballot for another candidate other than the incumbent) PR is not the same, it provides other candidates a chance. But for any change in the electoral system there needs to be genuine effort by a) those holding power (the elite) AND/OR

by the people.

a) will not push for it - for obvious reasons.

It can only come from For that to happen the people will need to do something brave like what I have suggested above. i.e. Demand it at the next ballot.

If you think that showed the Tory machine in action, just wait until the Euro vote (if it ever happens) then you will see UKIP totally demonised, individuals + party and any other anti group smothered in propaganda. They did a good job attacking them for the UK election, but that was just a warm-up. Any thoughts it will be a free & fair vote 55555

Also, although I take your point about Ed & the bacon sandwich, which Labour <deleted> thought it would make him look like a "man of the people" when everyone knows he's jewish, so of course, poor guy, he didn't look happy ?

[pitrevie]

The conservatives are now a party machine. The election campaign was like a jaggernaut. At one level tories (conservatives) were appealing to the undecided and also floating (tactical) voters, saying you have to vote tory or your vote will not count, it will be a wasted vote.

On another level, it backed a campaign (well thought-out) undermining the leader of the other parties. Especially, Nick Clegg and Ed Milliband.

1) Nick Clegg - When the lib-dems were campaigning. The tory party machine got a student to ask Clegg for selfie, and the student was told to drop his pants deliberately to cause Nick Clegg Embarrasment and ridicule. it scores points against Clegg through the electorate, also it puts Clegg off the election campaign, even briefly.

At one of the televised debates, a man asks Nick Clegg "What are your plans when you are kicked out after the General Election" - Nick Clegg was quick to respond "Charming!, no, I don't (have any plans)". That man knew the result of the election. He was so confident that the Tories would win. ELECTIONS SHOULD BE UNPREDICTABLE. The polling organisations could have got it wrong due to two reasons. One, due to the shy tories, two, due to some tory interference. Or a mixture of both.

2) Ed Milliband - Tories got all the media (Broadsheet and tabloids) to back them. Did you see that picture on the front page of the sun of Ed Milliband eating a bacon sandwich. Just that picture would have reached millions. It was on the front page, and it would have cost Ed and his party a lot of votes.

At one of the televised debates, a businesswoman owning a local business appears asked Ed Milliband as to why she should trust his party after last time and that big businesses (e.g tesco) are suffering. She was a stooge. She was playing homage to the Tories.

So all of the above happened at during the campaigning. In the UK it is illegal to smear an opponent in an election (unlike the USA where it is allowed), so all of the above happened covertly. We are talking something big, that's what a party machine is.

Look, this kind of election by Media has happened before, if you were visiting Australia during the Aus 2013 Federal Elections, you would have been able to tell how much the Media played a role in getting Abott and his boys elected.

At another level we have something introduced from the top. The Scottish referendum. Tories introduced it knowing full well that, if the SNP lost the referendum (i.e. Scotland remained part of the UK) that would fuel SNP supporters to send a message to Downing Street at the next election. i.e. SNP to do well in the General Election 2015. Is this bad?, for everyone that would like Scotland to remain as part of the UK. Yes. For tories wanting gains over labour at the election. NO!, its a welcome prospect. As it happens Labour lost many seats in Scotland, so did the lib Dems. Douglas Alexander and Danny Alexander both casualties.

The voters were, I'm afraid, duped to a large extend by the media in to believing that a vote for a "minor" party would result in a unpredictable result. SO anyone (mainly undecideds) then voted Tory at the last minute. This is one of the things with first past the post, the tactical vote, is an unsavory part. It can damage the two "major" parties, so if the tories capitalize on this and the media shouts this from the rooftops, it could sway, most of the tactical/undecided voters. Those voters could have done three things..actually four things. One - To vote for their minor party (UKIP, Greens). And there was a large number of votes for these parties, however, these votes did not translate to seats.

Two - Go to vote but spoil the ballot - To say I am not happy with any of the "major" parties. They could have wrote on the ballot "I vote for a more fairer PR electoral system"

Three - Not vote at all. Actually only 66.1% voted.

Four - Vote Conservative - A lot of undecided voters voted Conservative.

The only change from the politics as usual is to change the Electoral system to a more competitive one. (Under First-Past-the-Post, some seats are so safe, that there is very little point casting a ballot for another candidate other than the incumbent) PR is not the same, it provides other candidates a chance. But for any change in the electoral system there needs to be genuine effort by a) those holding power (the elite) AND/OR

by the people.

a) will not push for it - for obvious reasons.

It can only come from For that to happen the people will need to do something brave like what I have suggested above. i.e. Demand it at the next ballot.

If you think that showed the Tory machine in action, just wait until the Euro vote (if it ever happens) then you will see UKIP totally demonised, individuals + party and any other anti group smothered in propaganda. They did a good job attacking them for the UK election, but that was just a warm-up. Any thoughts it will be a free & fair vote 55555

Also, although I take your point about Ed & the bacon sandwich, which Labour <deleted> thought it would make him look like a "man of the people" when everyone knows he's jewish, so of course, poor guy, he didn't look happy ?

I don't get this bacon sandwich thing. I know many Jews who are no longer Jews in the strict sense of the word in that they no longer believe in religion they describe themselves as cultural Jews, they acknowledge their history never try to brush it under the carpet but for all intents and purposes are secular. As for the bacon sandwich a Jewish friend of mine in Bangkok told me that a bacon sandwich was something he really enjoyed, I would think many eat pork and any amount of seafood if they are living here. I should think that Milliband is nothing more than a cultural Jew. In the same sense that I often attend church ceremonies when people die or get married but that is my only involvement with religion of any type. When I saw that picture I think like many I didn't give it a second thought other than to think politicians should always avoid pictures of them stuffing something into their mouths at any time.

[jpinx]

The conservatives are now a party machine. The election campaign was like a jaggernaut. At one level tories (conservatives) were appealing to the undecided and also floating (tactical) voters, saying you have to vote tory or your vote will not count, it will be a wasted vote.

On another level, it backed a campaign (well thought-out) undermining the leader of the other parties. Especially, Nick Clegg and Ed Milliband.

1) Nick Clegg - When the lib-dems were campaigning. The tory party machine got a student to ask Clegg for selfie, and the student was told to drop his pants deliberately to cause Nick Clegg Embarrasment and ridicule. it scores points against Clegg through the electorate, also it puts Clegg off the election campaign, even briefly.

At one of the televised debates, a man asks Nick Clegg "What are your plans when you are kicked out after the General Election" - Nick Clegg was quick to respond "Charming!, no, I don't (have any plans)". That man knew the result of the election. He was so confident that the Tories would win. ELECTIONS SHOULD BE UNPREDICTABLE. The polling organisations could have got it wrong due to two reasons. One, due to the shy tories, two, due to some tory interference. Or a mixture of both.

2) Ed Milliband - Tories got all the media (Broadsheet and tabloids) to back them. Did you see that picture on the front page of the sun of Ed Milliband eating a bacon sandwich. Just that picture would have reached millions. It was on the front page, and it would have cost Ed and his party a lot of votes.

At one of the televised debates, a businesswoman owning a local business appears asked Ed Milliband as to why she should trust his party after last time and that big businesses (e.g tesco) are suffering. She was a stooge. She was playing homage to the Tories.

So all of the above happened at during the campaigning. In the UK it is illegal to smear an opponent in an election (unlike the USA where it is allowed), so all of the above happened covertly. We are talking something big, that's what a party machine is.

Look, this kind of election by Media has happened before, if you were visiting Australia during the Aus 2013 Federal Elections, you would have been able to tell how much the Media played a role in getting Abott and his boys elected.

At another level we have something introduced from the top. The Scottish referendum. Tories introduced it knowing full well that, if the SNP lost the referendum (i.e. Scotland remained part of the UK) that would fuel SNP supporters to send a message to Downing Street at the next election. i.e. SNP to do well in the General Election 2015. Is this bad?, for everyone that would like Scotland to remain as part of the UK. Yes. For tories wanting gains over labour at the election. NO!, its a welcome prospect. As it happens Labour lost many seats in Scotland, so did the lib Dems. Douglas Alexander and Danny Alexander both casualties.

The voters were, I'm afraid, duped to a large extend by the media in to believing that a vote for a "minor" party would result in a unpredictable result. SO anyone (mainly undecideds) then voted Tory at the last minute. This is one of the things with first past the post, the tactical vote, is an unsavory part. It can damage the two "major" parties, so if the tories capitalize on this and the media shouts this from the rooftops, it could sway, most of the tactical/undecided voters. Those voters could have done three things..actually four things. One - To vote for their minor party (UKIP, Greens). And there was a large number of votes for these parties, however, these votes did not translate to seats.

Two - Go to vote but spoil the ballot - To say I am not happy with any of the "major" parties. They could have wrote on the ballot "I vote for a more fairer PR electoral system"

Three - Not vote at all. Actually only 66.1% voted.

Four - Vote Conservative - A lot of undecided voters voted Conservative.

The only change from the politics as usual is to change the Electoral system to a more competitive one. (Under First-Past-the-Post, some seats are so safe, that there is very little point casting a ballot for another candidate other than the incumbent) PR is not the same, it provides other candidates a chance. But for any change in the electoral system there needs to be genuine effort by a) those holding power (the elite) AND/OR

by the people.

a) will not push for it - for obvious reasons.

It can only come from For that to happen the people will need to do something brave like what I have suggested above. i.e. Demand it at the next ballot.

If you think that showed the Tory machine in action, just wait until the Euro vote (if it ever happens) then you will see UKIP totally demonised, individuals + party and any other anti group smothered in propaganda. They did a good job attacking them for the UK election, but that was just a warm-up. Any thoughts it will be a free & fair vote 55555

Also, although I take your point about Ed & the bacon sandwich, which Labour <deleted> thought it would make him look like a "man of the people" when everyone knows he's jewish, so of course, poor guy, he didn't look happy ?

All this is a product of what people mistakenly believe is "democracy". Democracy and competitive politics are mutually exclusive. How can people expect politicans to play well together when they have been totally immersed in the culture of defeating their opposition? The days of a politican being elected from the community he lives in are long gone. Now they are in it for the money and power, paying lip service to the morals of the issues those communities face. It's probably too late to change the system into a true democracy, so now people vote for the "least offensive" option, not for the person who actually comes from their community and truly understands the issues.

Solutions --

Make the result depend on the %age of the ELECTORATE -- not of votes cast.

No candidates -- make people write down the name of the person they want to represent them.

No candidates -- people can vote for whoever they want -- anyone who appears on the electoral roll of the community they live in.

All perfectly possible with an electronic voting system

Edited May 15, 2015 by jpinx

[Basil B]

Farage's resignation just a sham and cheap PR stunt.

It had been fixed, Farge instructed UKIP not to accept his resignation...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-32732129