failed retirement extension Chiang Mai

[laislica]

Chiang Mai certainly used to allow the retirement extension to be applied for at 45 days early.

Yes, the earlier the better and shame that you need to start queuing so early.

Best of luck

[ChrisKC]

I would like to thank all of you for your useful input and ideas about how we process forward.

If you are a UK citizen and accustomed to dealing with the Consulate in Chiang Mai, you will know that operations have ceased there and and are now dealt with in Bangkok. The Chiang Mai Office used to provide a pension letter confirming entitlement in 24 hours. The Bangkok Office say that they only deal with Postal requests and that it takes 10 working days. As a matter of Interest, we visited the Consulate in Chiang Mai 10 days before it officially closed to be told they couldn't give us a letter and we have to do it through Bangkok.

On the issue of Banks and accounts.

Our application failed ONLY because we couldn't PROVE that funds of B1m had been in the account(s) for three months (which they had). OUR paperwork was at fault. Two of the branches where accounts were held both told us independently (yesterday) they couldn't access accounts at other branches. Two separate letters stating our case (one in Thai and an improvement on the first letter to facilitate what Immigration needed) was not considered satisfactory when we returned to their Office.

For the previous ten years we always applied for our extension with money in the bank and pension entitlement combined This year we decided to use bank only money as we had enough to do so.

There can be plenty of thoughts by us and all of you based on hindsight.

Thank you again

Regards from Chris

[NancyL]

Not a good idea to try to offer a "sweetener" at Chiang Mai Immigration. It will only insult the immigration officer who it seems was very kind to this poor couple. Chiang Mai isn't like Udon Thani or some of the other offices. If that was the way to solve the problem, it would have already been suggested to this couple.

As for the problem with getting a bank letter, if the funds have been moved between banks, even branches of the same bank, have they really been "on deposit" continuously for 90 days? Or have they been in the possession of the OP for a time? Or were all the transfers done electronically, instantly, with the OP never taking possession of the money? If that's the case, then perhaps there is a regional office of the bank that could write a bank letter, since obviously no one branch can claim credit for having the funds on deposit for 90 days.

[thai006]

next time use chiang mai immigration online queue last time arrived at 1h30 pm meeting at 2 pm and at 2h30 pm all finish

the first time i do same you 6 am until 3 pm never again lol

[skatewash]

The safest advice for a couple each getting a retirement extension is to have two separate one-name-only accounts (that is, each account is owned by a single person, and only that person) each of which has B800,000 deposited for the required months of seasoning: 2 months for the initial extension and 3 months for subsequent renewals.

In general, immigration seems to want to see individual accounts (not joint accounts). They want to see a single account per person, not multiple accounts per person.

Edited May 9, 2015 by skatewash

[ChrisKC]

You are right! No way will I enter into Mal-practice. Even Immigration Officers have superiors. They could be lenient but that means bending the rules and as far as I can tell, their point is valid and if anybody is to take responsibility for our position it is ourselves we have to look to. We needed to safeguard against others failing us.

And I am talking of the banks. One Bank should be able to work cohesively between branches all within Chiang Mai with the same Customer. There should be no complication with this - all the accounts were ordinary savings accounts.

I am going on about this because I don't want others to suffer misfortune as we are now doing

[FritsSikkink]

You think after 12 years living in Thailand I am not aware of your point? My wife isn't Thai she is English!

So why did you had your money problem? Should have known that too.

[ChrisKC]

There is nothing in my post about having money problems, it is about not being able to prove that I had money in the bank for three consecutive months. This would have been true for B1m as it would for B100m

[NancyL]

You are right! No way will I enter into Mal-practice. Even Immigration Officers have superiors. They could be lenient but that means bending the rules and as far as I can tell, their point is valid and if anybody is to take responsibility for our position it is ourselves we have to look to. We needed to safeguard against others failing us.

And I am talking of the banks. One Bank should be able to work cohesively between branches all within Chiang Mai with the same Customer. There should be no complication with this - all the accounts were ordinary savings accounts.

I am going on about this because I don't want others to suffer misfortune as we are now doing

Yes, Chris, you've learned the unfortunate truth that in Thailand each branch bank is its own little "empire" and it's important to open an account at a branch that is convenient because you'll need to return to that branch to take care of business like getting a new passbook when your current one fills up, retrieving your ATM card when the machine eats it or you lose it, and getting your bank letter for immigration.

[ubonjoe]

I have read that we can leave Thailand and get a 30 day tourist (visa) or 60 day tourist visa from Laos. Surely this would compromise our non-immigrant 'O' visa already in passports?

Your old non-o visas mean nothing now. They only gave you the 90 day permit to stay that you have been extending for several years now.

An option might be to go back to immigration to see if they would give you both a 7 day extension and then allow you to apply for your extension at the end of those seven days. That might give you enough time to get the income letter.

I think if you sent the income letter request to the embassy by EMS you would have it back in time.

Perhaps show immigration this line "We will provide your letter within 10 working days" from this file with info on getting the letter. https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/423129/Pension_10_02_15__Master.pdf

If not them your best option is for both of you to make a trip to Vientiane Laos to get new single entry non-o visas. Just a bank book for an account with 800k baht in it in your name only

[smotherb]

You think after 12 years living in Thailand I am not aware of your point? My wife isn't Thai she is English!

Don't get upset you did not disclose that in your first post. It looks like you may need to exit Thailand and get a single entry O visa based on retirement from Lao. Wish you the best. UJ this OP needs you.

No, but he did not say Thai wife either, and he did say B800k, that he had B400k properly seeded in one bank, and the overstay fine was obviously for two people. So, suffice to say the responders jumped to conclusions without thinking.

[mango66]

Come on people -- Please have some pity -- of course Immigration doesn't open at 3:30 am, but that's when one must come to get in the queue to be sure to be seen that day, especially for a retirement extension. It's common knowledge that's the situation in Chiang Mai. When I read the OP, I had no difficulty in reading between the lines to see that it was a husband and wife as-a-dependent situation, due to the way he was explaining to calculation of the overstay fines -- for two people.

Here's a suggestion -- could the overstay fines be reduced by doing a border run to "buy some time". I don't know about people from the U.K. Do they receive 15 days or 30 days when they exit and re-enter by land?

A few lessons learned:

1. the obvious one, as spelled out by the OP -- don't move your visa bank account funds around during the seasoning period. Never. Period. Full stop. The extra interest you think you'll earn isn't worth it. There have been reports of people having difficulty when they close and reopen an account at the same branch bank. It would be even worse if they change banks.

2. Don't wait until three days before your extension expires to apply. You can apply 30 days early and your extension is stamped for 365 days after the expiration of the previous one, so you don't "lose time" Had the OP applied 30 days prior to expiration, he would have had longer to sort out the problem without paying as steep an overstay fine.

3. One that the OP hasn't thought of -- it's never a good idea for a spouse to be carried as a dependent on a retirement visa if over age 50. The OP mentions having a bank account of B1m. Is it that big a stretch to have two bank accounts of B800,000? Reason I ask, is that if the visa hold dies, the spouse no longer has a valid visa, has seven days to leave the country to apply for a new visa and the bank account is frozen until the Final Will is probated. I just was involved in exactly this situation with a British-British couple. For us, Hubby and I each have our own visas and our own bank accounts in Thailand. If something happened to one of us, the other would be able to manage knowing that joint bank accounts and sole bank accounts of the deceased are frozen while the Final Will is sorted.

yes it reads fine, but than you should have 2 times 800.000,- to be on save side;

A shift of the funds every 6 months between partners contains the same risk,

that something will happen in time when the deposit needs to be seasoned !! murphy !!

[novo58]

This thread is perhaps a timely reminder for us all .

Recently when I re-newed my permission to stay at Udon Thani I ran across a guy whose money was ONLY seeded for 2mths and 20 days. He was told it was not long enough( he needed it to be seeded for 3 mths).........and caused him a few problems also.

He had done the same as this OP ............and moved money around for a ( supposedly) better interest rate.............but it ended up costing him dearly.

Really its a case of appreciating priorities...................................

[Coaster11]

I have read that we can leave Thailand and get a 30 day tourist (visa) or 60 day tourist visa from Laos. Surely this would compromise our non-immigrant 'O' visa already in passports?

An option might be to go back to immigration to see if they would give you both a 7 day extension and then allow you to apply for your extension at the end of those seven days. That might give you enough time to get the income letter.

Or even a 30 day extension as usually it's up to the officers discretion re the mitigating circumstances? then re apply in that time frame/when the money has seasoned in the one account.....and take all the documents that show 12 years of extensions and that the money was always there but not to the satisfaction of the relevant bank people.

Certainly worth a shot!

[Tony125]

I am beginning to get confused.

The Immigration Officer told us we could get a pension letter in a few days but he was wrong. He anticipated us arriving back with money and time period resolved before the current extension expires. He gave us back all our papers and said we could use the same application and forms and even gave us our queue tickets back so we would be first in line. Therefore we left without pursuing the issue of overstay. Only upon asking the Bangkok Office were we told 10 working days - no urgent cases accepted for reducing this time.

Its an interesting point about the non-immigrant visa having "expired long ago". I am sure this cannot be right as both my wife and I have been using the same one for at least eight years. She got hers in UK and I got mine in Penang. Every year since then, Immigration Officers have examined our passports and nobody ever raised the issue. Does a non-immigrant 'O' visa have a limited life?

Oh, now I understand. He thought the process of getting an income letter was like it is for the Americans where they'd work you in pronto without an appointment for an "emergency" like this. Won't the British Embassy do the same thing? It's absolutely essential you get this resolved before your current extension expires. I suggest you appeal to a higher authority at the British Embassy or contact the British Honorary Consul in Chiang Mai, especially if travel to Vientiane is a hardship for either of you. Otherwise, you'll just have to resign yourself to an unexpected little holiday to Laos. It takes a couple days to get an O visa in Vientiane. The process is time-consuming, but not especially expensive.

Everyone's correct in saying your visas have been dead for a long time -- what you've been doing is extending your permission to stay from year-to-year. That's now the date that's relevant, not the date of your original visa. People talk about "renewing their visa" when actually they're "extending their permission to stay". Once you're here past the date of your current extension to stay, then you're on overstay and there is nothing the nice officers in Chiang Mai can do to help you. You're going to have to leave the country and apply for a new O visa in a neighboring country. That makes more sense than just getting a 30 day non-exempt entry and doing the two-visit conversion to an O visa in Bangkok.

Nancy you said "once your here past the date of your current extension to stay, then your on overstay and there is nothing the nice officers in Chiang Mai can do to help you" Thats not necessarily correct. My extension to stay expired on March 6th 2015 but I read it wrong and thought it expired on the 16 March . I went to Chaeng Wattena Immigrationn in BKK paid 4,000 baht for 8 days overstay ( got receipt ) then had extension granted after paperwork with letter from embassy ( USA) was checked by her supervisor who said "see you next year"

[ubonjoe]

I have read that we can leave Thailand and get a 30 day tourist (visa) or 60 day tourist visa from Laos. Surely this would compromise our non-immigrant 'O' visa already in passports?

An option might be to go back to immigration to see if they would give you both a 7 day extension and then allow you to apply for your extension at the end of those seven days. That might give you enough time to get the income letter.

Or even a 30 day extension as usually it's up to the officers discretion re the mitigating circumstances? then re apply in that time frame/when the money has seasoned in the one account.....and take all the documents that show 12 years of extensions and that the money was always there but not to the satisfaction of the relevant bank people.

Certainly worth a shot!

Immigration has no discretion to give a 30 day extension. There is no clause in the police order for extensions for one.

There is also no seven day extension. You apply for one and get 7 days to leave the country for a denied extension application.

[ubonjoe]

I have removed several off topic and troll posts along with replies to them. Any further such posts will be removed without notice.

I hope the OP can find my last post.

[Liquorice]

What date does your extension expire Chris?

Have you already applied for the letter from the Embassy. When?

The only option is to leave Thailand and get another 90 day Non Imm O Visa again for yourself and your wife.

Basically start the procedure again.

Just to clarify you are not on a Visa. Your Visa expired a long time ago and then you apply for an extension. It's an extension of your permission to stay in Thailand, not an extension of the Visa.

The financial requirement is to have 800,000 in a Thai bank account (not accounts) for 2 months for the first extension and 3 months thereafter. Personally, I have a fixed deposit account for my 800,000 giving 2.8% which I leave alone, and a savings account with debit card for my normal expenditures.

Edited May 9, 2015 by Faz

[seancbk]

You think after 12 years living in Thailand I am not aware of your point? My wife isn't Thai she is English!

Don't get upset you did not disclose that in your first post. It looks like you may need to exit Thailand and get a single entry O visa based on retirement from Lao. Wish you the best. UJ this OP needs you.

Yes ChrisKC did disclose that his wife was not Thai.

Read carefully... He said "This will involve us in a 27 day overstay which is not difficult to calculate but is B27,000, not to mention endorsements in our passports."

1 person on overstay for 1 day = 500 baht, 2 persons on overstay for one day = 1000 baht. For both persons to 'qualify' for overstay they need to be non Thai.

My question to the OP, could you and your wife not take a short holiday somewhere and come back in on a tourist visa or even a visa exempt stamp? Wouldn't that give you the required time to age the deposits and avoid any overstay? I'm under retirement ago so not sure how it works with switching from a Retirement Visa to a Tourist Visa and back again.

Once on overstay wouldn't you both need to leave Thailand anyway to clear it?

[crazykopite]

He could get a 60 day extension based on marriage which would give his money a chance to do the 90 day seasoning.

Is his wife Thai he does not say it seems everyone thinks that guys who come over here have a Thai wife this is not always the case my wife is British and we have lived here for over 10 years

[crazykopite]

Take a trip abroad come back on a 90 day visa and once into your 60 days transfer it over to extension of stay and as it is a new application your money only needs to be in the bank for two months good luck hope all turns out well for you both !

[nzexpat]

There is no need to be involved with any "overstay" .

This person and his wife could A) Cross a border and return with visa exempt entries which can be extended. Obtain single or double entry tourist visas OR C) Obtain new NON "O" single entry visas !

Taking no positive action in the face of a self generated problem will not provide any solutions .

[Artisi]

Come on Sir!!!!

Get yourself an extension based on marriage instead, only 400K needed...

Glegolo

You can't once you've already been on a retirement visa i think. Perhaps someone could confirm this?

Yes you can if you have a Thai wife! The OP doesn't. But, even with a Thai wife many offices don't like to change someone from a retirement to a marriage extension because of the extra paperwork involved. They need to hear a "good excuse", like the applicant wants to get a work permit, which can't be done on a retirement extension. They're not as sympathetic to hearing "I don't have enough money in the bank"

Exactly what I did, after many years on work related extensions I changed to retirement extension for a number of years, a couple of years back I built a house and needed a little cash injection so changed to a marriage visa - the excuse used was I was asked to return to work and needed a work permit - this was accepted (a few grumble) and marriage extension was granted.

More hassles for immigration and for yourself in paperwork and 2 trips to immigration for the final extension stamp.

[soalbundy]

Come on Sir!!!!

Get yourself an extension based on marriage instead, only 400K needed...

Glegolo

You can't once you've already been on a retirement visa i think. Perhaps someone could confirm this?

I changed from a marriage visa to a retirement visa why shouldn't it work the other way round

[Graemej100]

Why, whenever this topic comes up, there is an obsession with 800,000 baht in the bank? There are alternatives. ie 70,000 baht per month or a combination of two things.

[Liquorice]

Why, whenever this topic comes up, there is an obsession with 800,000 baht in the bank? There are alternatives. ie 70,000 baht per month or a combination of two things.

I can think of one very good reason why some don't want to use the 'Income' method to prove funds.

That isn't relevant to this topic anyway.

[khunPer]

That’s a good advice Nancy L #10 gives in number 3.

To ChrisKC,

To me it sounds like you need to make a Visa Run abroad and obtain a new “non-O” Visa, single entry 90 days will do. I have tried a similar situation (not CM) where Immigration changed from in several years accepting bonds in Fund Books till the deposit should be a normal bank account only, as Fund Book-bonds suddenly were considered risky speculation. Very kind Immigration officer, but he could not bend the (new) rules. I had go abroad (Malaysia) a start Retirement extensions from scratch.

The deposit only method is otherwise very hassle free, just don’t move money the last three month before applying for extension – even you may use some fixed-term high interest accounts, leave the deposit three month on the normal 3-month-fixed interest rate – that’s “cheaper” than problems...

When you restart retirement, you only need 60 days mature of fund for the first Retirement extension.

But do check with CM Immigration if the advise with a 7 days extension and an income letter may do the trick...

Wish you good luck.

[kimroe]

Why did you not check up everthing before???? Stupid to I did not know after so many years down here!! I been Living here for the last 20 years and still have to go true what you are going treu every year!!! YOU knew it was coming so why did you not sort it out before??? Dont blame the banks!!!

[cardinalblue]

He did disclose that his wife is non-thai by stating that his overstay was 27k for 27 days (meaning 500B person per day)....

Someone did not practice reading with inference...

CB

Edited May 9, 2015 by cardinalblue

[FangFerang]

Take a cheap plane to Vientiane, take a break, and come back and get a free 90 day on arrival.