Second rice crop planting ban takes toll on farmers

[Thai at Heart]

As I said, preventing someone from doing something perfectly legal should involve some compensation. They have actually done a service to the country by shortening the market.

But this is all part and parcel of the chaos of Thailand. There should be quotas and the such but no one has the will to enforce and manage it. So, its a messy free for all. Now they want mandated areas which probably doesn't work half as well as they want but will stop marginal production.

They need quotas and licenses to produce against committed contracts from buyers with prices and volumes set waaaay ahead so that they can back out and change if they like. But that would help farmers too much. A little like the idiot minister the other day saying that removing slavery might cost money. Yeah, making sure farmers can feed themselves costs money. Crazy idea huh

[dcutman]

There is a big chunk of your story missing Apetley. How did the soldiers physically stop these farmers from planting rice?

They made the farmer switch off his water pump and told him that he would be in trouble if he resumed preparing his paddy.

Ok so they did not stop him from planting , they stopped him fro using the water the govt said they would not supply to people growing a second rice crop. I dont suppose you asked him why he tried when he was told this was going to happen? I am sure in hindsight he was happy they stopped him so he would not waste any more money on a crop that was bound to completely fail without additional water.

[trogers]

There is a big chunk of your story missing Apetley. How did the soldiers physically stop these farmers from planting rice?

They made the farmer switch off his water pump and told him that he would be in trouble if he resumed preparing his paddy.

Would the soldiers still stopped him if he had used water from his own pond?

[apetley]

There is a big chunk of your story missing Apetley. How did the soldiers physically stop these farmers from planting rice?

They made the farmer switch off his water pump and told him that he would be in trouble if he resumed preparing his paddy.

Ok so they did not stop him from planting , they stopped him fro using the water the govt said they would not supply to people growing a second rice crop. I dont suppose you asked him why he tried when he was told this was going to happen? I am sure in hindsight he was happy they stopped him so he would not waste any more money on a crop that was bound to completely fail without additional water.

That particular canal always has water and currently being pumped by a wealthy landowner growing a huge area of sugar cane.

[apetley]

There is a big chunk of your story missing Apetley. How did the soldiers physically stop these farmers from planting rice?

They made the farmer switch off his water pump and told him that he would be in trouble if he resumed preparing his paddy.

Would the soldiers still stopped him if he had used water from his own pond?

He only has about 4 rai and no pond of his own.

[dcutman]

As I said, preventing someone from doing something perfectly legal should involve some compensation. They have actually done a service to the country by shortening the market.

But this is all part and parcel of the chaos of Thailand. There should be quotas and the such but no one has the will to enforce and manage it. So, its a messy free for all. Now they want mandated areas which probably doesn't work half as well as they want but will stop marginal production.

They need quotas and licenses to produce against committed contracts from buyers with prices and volumes set waaaay ahead so that they can back out and change if they like. But that would help farmers too much. A little like the idiot minister the other day saying that removing slavery might cost money. Yeah, making sure farmers can feed themselves costs money. Crazy idea huh

They did not stop farmers from planting or growing rice. Not sure why you cant understand that. The govt did stop the free flow of water because of serious drought. Have you considered what the consequences might have been if the govt didnt take these actions and let the farmers plant all they wanted?

We would be arguing about the the compensation owed to hundreds of thousand of people and businesses that have no access to fresh water because the govt allowed an off season rice crop. Think about it T@h one group or the other was going to suffer here, and demand compensation. IMO the govt made the right decision in this case. If the country had no rice stocks I would think the decision would have gone the other way.

[dcutman]

There is a big chunk of your story missing Apetley. How did the soldiers physically stop these farmers from planting rice?

They made the farmer switch off his water pump and told him that he would be in trouble if he resumed preparing his paddy.

Ok so they did not stop him from planting , they stopped him fro using the water the govt said they would not supply to people growing a second rice crop. I dont suppose you asked him why he tried when he was told this was going to happen? I am sure in hindsight he was happy they stopped him so he would not waste any more money on a crop that was bound to completely fail without additional water.

That particular canal always has water and currently being pumped by a wealthy landowner growing a huge area of sugar cane.

Not sure if you read any of the links I posted in #85. But in one of those the govt suggested alternative crops, and employment options. Maybe if these farmers would have gone in that direction, we would not be having this discussion right now, Thailand does not need any more rice coming to market right now.

As for the wealthy sugar cane owner pumping water, "Wealthy" nuff said on that.

[halloween]

Sometimes when I read the comments on here I despair of being a member of the human race. My brother in law works damned hard and is struggling to make a living this year. He's getting on in years, how on earth can he uproot from his home in the sticks and get a job in the city amongst all the younger competition? Now, maybe nobody owes this guy a living but members on here could at least have a little sympathy for their fellow humans struggling to make ends meet.

Yours is the sort of comment I'd expect from an avid supporter of the junta.

While it is only human to have sympathy for someone working hard for little result because they are too old and uneducated to do anything else, when there are millions of them and they insist on electing any criminal who will offer them the (often false) promise a handout, and consequently cost the country billions, the sympathy wears pretty thin.

Being so short-sighted and stupid not to be able to see that is what I expect of Shinawatra faux-democracy supporters.

[halloween]

I very much doubt any of the geniuses giving out advice here to the farmers would be anywhere near the position in life they are if they too were born into a rice farmers family.

Farmers worldwide have a tough life, and the job they do is essential as it provides cheap food for the masses. I know this is explaining the obvious but it seems some here do not understand the simplest simplest thing when it comes to the economics of food production.

Telling farmers to go get a job to better themselves is about as stupid a comment as could possibly be made.

There is surplus supply of rice for mankind. If these farmers cannot survive from farming such a cheap produce, either switch to a high value crop, or sell off the farm to someone who can.

Then get a job and buy cheap rice farmed by someone else.

Nonsensical! You must be the only person in the world who thinks there is a surplus of rice in the world.

Even if it were anywhere near true, the person leaving farming would have to be replaced by someone else wouldnt they? or the amount of rice produced would go down and prices go up. Then the farmer who left his fields would also have to pay more for his rice and he would still be unhappy.

I can only suggest you research a few basic concepts before commenting further. Start with "labour intensive" then try "mechanisation" and then go to "productivity".

In case you lack the time or skill, let me summarise fr you. Too many workers working in a labour intensive industry producing a low value crop result in poverty for most of them. Reducing the number of workers, increasing the acreage of each farm, and using mechanical equipment results in sufficient yield per worker to afford them a reasonable income, and the market price actually drops.

[Thai at Heart]

As I said, preventing someone from doing something perfectly legal should involve some compensation. They have actually done a service to the country by shortening the market.

But this is all part and parcel of the chaos of Thailand. There should be quotas and the such but no one has the will to enforce and manage it. So, its a messy free for all. Now they want mandated areas which probably doesn't work half as well as they want but will stop marginal production.

They need quotas and licenses to produce against committed contracts from buyers with prices and volumes set waaaay ahead so that they can back out and change if they like. But that would help farmers too much. A little like the idiot minister the other day saying that removing slavery might cost money. Yeah, making sure farmers can feed themselves costs money. Crazy idea huh

They did not stop farmers from planting or growing rice. Not sure why you cant understand that. The govt did stop the free flow of water because of serious drought. Have you considered what the consequences might have been if the govt didnt take these actions and let the farmers plant all they wanted?

We would be arguing about the the compensation owed to hundreds of thousand of people and businesses that have no access to fresh water because the govt allowed an off season rice crop. Think about it T@h one group or the other was going to suffer here, and demand compensation. IMO the govt made the right decision in this case. If the country had no rice stocks I would think the decision would have gone the other way.

Why is it any of the farmers problem if there is a stockpile? His job is to grow whatever he thinks he can to make a profit or feed himself. If the normal practice is that he grows product using water from a canal and the govenrment chooses not to send water down the line, then why isn't he entitled to compensation, any more than if the government digs up the road in front of your noodle stand, you are entitled.

Now if there is a drought, then that is a different issue, which begs the question, why the hell is the government permitting songkran, but not rice production? Which is more of a priority? Sanook and getting smashed, or business of any type. It isn't a matter of who made a right or wrong decision, the issue is what about the earnings of the farmers.......

[trogers]

I very much doubt any of the geniuses giving out advice here to the farmers would be anywhere near the position in life they are if they too were born into a rice farmers family.

Farmers worldwide have a tough life, and the job they do is essential as it provides cheap food for the masses. I know this is explaining the obvious but it seems some here do not understand the simplest simplest thing when it comes to the economics of food production.

Telling farmers to go get a job to better themselves is about as stupid a comment as could possibly be made.

There is surplus supply of rice for mankind. If these farmers cannot survive from farming such a cheap produce, either switch to a high value crop, or sell off the farm to someone who can.

Then get a job and buy cheap rice farmed by someone else.

Nonsensical! You must be the only person in the world who thinks there is a surplus of rice in the world.

Even if it were anywhere near true, the person leaving farming would have to be replaced by someone else wouldnt they? or the amount of rice produced would go down and prices go up. Then the farmer who left his fields would also have to pay more for his rice and he would still be unhappy.

I can only suggest you research a few basic concepts before commenting further. Start with "labour intensive" then try "mechanisation" and then go to "productivity".

In case you lack the time or skill, let me summarise fr you. Too many workers working in a labour intensive industry producing a low value crop result in poverty for most of them. Reducing the number of workers, increasing the acreage of each farm, and using mechanical equipment results in sufficient yield per worker to afford them a reasonable income, and the market price actually drops.

Children of the previous generation of farmers are inheriting smaller farm plots (from sharing among siblings) and become not economical for mechanization.

[dcutman]

As I said, preventing someone from doing something perfectly legal should involve some compensation. They have actually done a service to the country by shortening the market.

But this is all part and parcel of the chaos of Thailand. There should be quotas and the such but no one has the will to enforce and manage it. So, its a messy free for all. Now they want mandated areas which probably doesn't work half as well as they want but will stop marginal production.

They need quotas and licenses to produce against committed contracts from buyers with prices and volumes set waaaay ahead so that they can back out and change if they like. But that would help farmers too much. A little like the idiot minister the other day saying that removing slavery might cost money. Yeah, making sure farmers can feed themselves costs money. Crazy idea huh

They did not stop farmers from planting or growing rice. Not sure why you cant understand that. The govt did stop the free flow of water because of serious drought. Have you considered what the consequences might have been if the govt didnt take these actions and let the farmers plant all they wanted?

We would be arguing about the the compensation owed to hundreds of thousand of people and businesses that have no access to fresh water because the govt allowed an off season rice crop. Think about it T@h one group or the other was going to suffer here, and demand compensation. IMO the govt made the right decision in this case. If the country had no rice stocks I would think the decision would have gone the other way.

Why is it any of the farmers problem if there is a stockpile? His job is to grow whatever he thinks he can to make a profit or feed himself. If the normal practice is that he grows product using water from a canal and the govenrment chooses not to send water down the line, then why isn't he entitled to compensation, any more than if the government digs up the road in front of your noodle stand, you are entitled.

Now if there is a drought, then that is a different issue, which begs the question, why the hell is the government permitting songkran, but not rice production? Which is more of a priority? Sanook and getting smashed, or business of any type. It isn't a matter of who made a right or wrong decision, the issue is what about the earnings of the farmers.......

To answer your first question about stockpiles and profits. It makes no business sense at the moment to to even consider growing rice. The BKK post quoted farmers last month only getting 6 to 7000 baht a ton This Nation article has production costs at over 10,500 per rai with an average yield of 450kg per rai http://www.nationmultimedia.com/business/High-cost-to-pull-down-Thailands-rice-exports-in-n-30243947.html If these numbers are true, its kind of a no brainier.

Your second question about how the canal (irrigation) water is allocated was answered in a prior post. But here it is again . The government encouraged the farmers to plant a alternative crop that uses less water. If you haven't bothered to look how much water it takes to grow rice vs other grains, here you go, you will have to confirm it yourself if you dont believe me.

400L water = 1kg corn

800L water = 1 kg soybean

5000L water = 1kg rice

Everybody is extremely emotional about the plight of the poor Thai farmer here, but I am pretty certain farmers in other countries have it the same or worse, and dont stick their hand out every time things get tough. But unlike Thai farmers, they realize its the business they choose be in and have adapted (modernized)to the risks of doing that business.

[Thai at Heart]

As I said, preventing someone from doing something perfectly legal should involve some compensation. They have actually done a service to the country by shortening the market.

But this is all part and parcel of the chaos of Thailand. There should be quotas and the such but no one has the will to enforce and manage it. So, its a messy free for all. Now they want mandated areas which probably doesn't work half as well as they want but will stop marginal production.

They need quotas and licenses to produce against committed contracts from buyers with prices and volumes set waaaay ahead so that they can back out and change if they like. But that would help farmers too much. A little like the idiot minister the other day saying that removing slavery might cost money. Yeah, making sure farmers can feed themselves costs money. Crazy idea huh

They did not stop farmers from planting or growing rice. Not sure why you cant understand that. The govt did stop the free flow of water because of serious drought. Have you considered what the consequences might have been if the govt didnt take these actions and let the farmers plant all they wanted?

We would be arguing about the the compensation owed to hundreds of thousand of people and businesses that have no access to fresh water because the govt allowed an off season rice crop. Think about it T@h one group or the other was going to suffer here, and demand compensation. IMO the govt made the right decision in this case. If the country had no rice stocks I would think the decision would have gone the other way.

Why is it any of the farmers problem if there is a stockpile? His job is to grow whatever he thinks he can to make a profit or feed himself. If the normal practice is that he grows product using water from a canal and the govenrment chooses not to send water down the line, then why isn't he entitled to compensation, any more than if the government digs up the road in front of your noodle stand, you are entitled.

Now if there is a drought, then that is a different issue, which begs the question, why the hell is the government permitting songkran, but not rice production? Which is more of a priority? Sanook and getting smashed, or business of any type. It isn't a matter of who made a right or wrong decision, the issue is what about the earnings of the farmers.......

To answer your first question about stockpiles and profits. It makes no business sense at the moment to to even consider growing rice. The BKK post quoted farmers last month only getting 6 to 7000 baht a ton This Nation article has production costs at over 10,500 per rai with an average yield of 450kg per rai http://www.nationmultimedia.com/business/High-cost-to-pull-down-Thailands-rice-exports-in-n-30243947.html If these numbers are true, its kind of a no brainier.

Your second question about how the canal (irrigation) water is allocated was answered in a prior post. But here it is again . The government encouraged the farmers to plant a alternative crop that uses less water. If you haven't bothered to look how much water it takes to grow rice vs other grains, here you go, you will have to confirm it yourself if you dont believe me.

400L water = 1kg corn

800L water = 1 kg soybean

5000L water = 1kg rice

Everybody is extremely emotional about the plight of the poor Thai farmer here, but I am pretty certain farmers in other countries have it the same or worse, and dont stick their hand out every time things get tough. But unlike Thai farmers, they realize its the business they choose be in and have adapted (modernized)to the risks of doing that business.

Uh, yes. The govt has encouraged them to grow something less water intensive. Question is in reality, how are they going to control where and how much rice they will produce in the market going forward for the next few years. They have happily produced 2nd rice crops to the detriment of the water supply for decades now. Expecting someone with a water channel with water in it, with bunding for a rice paddy to change to something else at the drop of a hat is a little fanciful. People don't just break the hard pan in a paddy a the drop of a hat and go and grow something else.

Of course rice needs a lot of water, it does all over the world.

They need to get it into everyone's head that there are some parts of the country that have zero place growing any rice at all because the water supply is so marginal and transfer those lands to something else asap to shorten the rice production. Then they have the problem that huge swathes of say Isaan are barely good for any agriculture but farmers continue to grow. Problems such as salinity are all over Isaan, but farmers have to produce rice just to eat. Well if they are going to do that, then they also produce to sell, even though the margin is so poor. This is literally hand to mouth existance and has nothing to do with the larger commercial rice prodution in the central plains. In fact they would be better to distribute rice to these people to stop them growing any at all.

Farmers all over the world have it tough, and many in the developed world don't have to even put out their hand. The mechanism to subsidize them runs in the USA, EU, Japan and most other develped country. So telling Thais to stop moaning isn't going to work. Balancing what can be grown profitably, what is grown to subside and what can be grown for consumption is the issue, not ruling out subsidies on some fundamental belief.

[kannot]

Well, the least they should do is compensate them for not being allowed to grow.

Well, the main reason they aren't allowed to grow in 26 provinces is very simple. There ain't enough water there due to lack of rain in the dry/hot season. Farmers near where I live have planted because the Nan river is running well.

The main reason is 50 years of NO PLANNING in water conservation in a country which actually has HUGE annual rainfall, and the blame will fall on all those happy voters who seek to help only themselves.

[NeverSure]

I very much doubt any of the geniuses giving out advice here to the farmers would be anywhere near the position in life they are if they too were born into a rice farmers family.

Farmers worldwide have a tough life, and the job they do is essential as it provides cheap food for the masses. I know this is explaining the obvious but it seems some here do not understand the simplest simplest thing when it comes to the economics of food production.

Telling farmers to go get a job to better themselves is about as stupid a comment as could possibly be made.

With all due respect, this is simply not true. The best thing a poor, small holding farmer can do for himself, his family, and the community is to sell his farm to enlarge another farm, and learn a trade or profession from the modern world of mechanization and technology.

We don't want to see farmers stay in the 18th century as poor people walking behind a buffalo or stooping all day in a field so that we can have cheap food. The food process will be just a cheap or cheaper due to productivity of mechanization which can only be economically viable on a larger scale. Farmers who stay on those small farms stay poor and don't get to enter the 21st century of economic opportunity. This is partly why Thailand is still third world.

Before you challenge my credentials let me just tell you that I grew up on a 4,000 acre (almost 10,000 rai) wheat and cattle ranch in the W. US and I do know something about a profitable farm and ranch. I know something about economy of scale where the large farmer can easily afford to own wheat combines and also make money doing the small neighbor's wheat and therefore even keep those machines productive and profitable. I earned all of my spending money and bought my first new car from driving wheat combines and dump trucks harvesting neighbors wheat. I made quite a bit of money driving tractors prepping fields and planting wheat.

Just as a kid I was making a lot more money that any Thai rice farmer I know simply from the fact that I could harvest and haul wheat to market from about 100 acres (250 rai) of wheat per day all by myself. Productivity in the 20th century.

In this way you have one guy who's farming with mechanization and technology while making a lot of money and a whole bunch of other people who don't have to farm get to eat cheap food. Those other people can make our smartphones and computers and big screen TVs - things that didn't even exist when the Thai farmers learned to farm. Everyone makes more money and has more and newer things.

I know this isn't about wheat but the principle is the same. Take a look please.

…One bushel of wheat contains approximately one million individual kernels (berries).

…A modern combine can harvest 1,000 bushels (60 pounds = one bushel of wheat) per hour. 60,000 pounds of wheat per hour!!

…A family of four could live 10 years off the bread produced by one acre (2.5 rai) of wheat.

LINK

[Thai at Heart]

I very much doubt any of the geniuses giving out advice here to the farmers would be anywhere near the position in life they are if they too were born into a rice farmers family.

Farmers worldwide have a tough life, and the job they do is essential as it provides cheap food for the masses. I know this is explaining the obvious but it seems some here do not understand the simplest simplest thing when it comes to the economics of food production.

Telling farmers to go get a job to better themselves is about as stupid a comment as could possibly be made.

With all due respect, this is simply not true. The best thing a poor, small holding farmer can do for himself, his family, and the community is to sell his farm to enlarge another farm, and learn a trade or profession from the modern world of mechanization and technology.

We don't want to see farmers stay in the 18th century as poor people walking behind a buffalo or stooping all day in a field so that we can have cheap food. The food process will be just a cheap or cheaper due to productivity of mechanization which can only be economically viable on a larger scale. Farmers who stay on those small farms stay poor and don't get to enter the 21st century of economic opportunity. This is partly why Thailand is still third world.

Before you challenge my credentials let me just tell you that I grew up on a 4,000 acre (almost 10,000 rai) wheat and cattle ranch in the W. US and I do know something about a profitable farm and ranch. I know something about economy of scale where the large farmer can easily afford to own wheat combines and also make money doing the small neighbor's wheat and therefore even keep those machines productive and profitable. I earned all of my spending money and bought my first new car from driving wheat combines and dump trucks harvesting neighbors wheat. I made quite a bit of money driving tractors prepping fields and planting wheat.

Just as a kid I was making a lot more money that any Thai rice farmer I know simply from the fact that I could harvest and haul wheat to market from about 100 acres (250 rai) of wheat per day all by myself. Productivity in the 20th century.

In this way you have one guy who's farming with mechanization and technology while making a lot of money and a whole bunch of other people who don't have to farm get to eat cheap food. Those other people can make our smartphones and computers and big screen TVs - things that didn't even exist when the Thai farmers learned to farm. Everyone makes more money and has more and newer things.

I know this isn't about wheat but the principle is the same. Take a look please.

…One bushel of wheat contains approximately one million individual kernels (berries).

…A modern combine can harvest 1,000 bushels (60 pounds = one bushel of wheat) per hour. 60,000 pounds of wheat per hour!!

…A family of four could live 10 years off the bread produced by one acre (2.5 rai) of wheat.

LINK

You are trying to convince people who refuse to change.. Even to the point that they have refused to educate their own people because they wish to retain this quaint monster or subsistence farming.

[ourmanflint]

I very much doubt any of the geniuses giving out advice here to the farmers would be anywhere near the position in life they are if they too were born into a rice farmers family.

Farmers worldwide have a tough life, and the job they do is essential as it provides cheap food for the masses. I know this is explaining the obvious but it seems some here do not understand the simplest simplest thing when it comes to the economics of food production.

Telling farmers to go get a job to better themselves is about as stupid a comment as could possibly be made.

There is surplus supply of rice for mankind. If these farmers cannot survive from farming such a cheap produce, either switch to a high value crop, or sell off the farm to someone who can.

Then get a job and buy cheap rice farmed by someone else.

Nonsensical! You must be the only person in the world who thinks there is a surplus of rice in the world.

Even if it were anywhere near true, the person leaving farming would have to be replaced by someone else wouldnt they? or the amount of rice produced would go down and prices go up. Then the farmer who left his fields would also have to pay more for his rice and he would still be unhappy.

I can only suggest you research a few basic concepts before commenting further. Start with "labour intensive" then try "mechanisation" and then go to "productivity".

In case you lack the time or skill, let me summarise fr you. Too many workers working in a labour intensive industry producing a low value crop result in poverty for most of them. Reducing the number of workers, increasing the acreage of each farm, and using mechanical equipment results in sufficient yield per worker to afford them a reasonable income, and the market price actually drops.

Hilarious nonsense from someone who has absolutley no clue about farming in Thailand or Asia. Western arrogance at its very best.

[NeverSure]

There is surplus supply of rice for mankind. If these farmers cannot survive from farming such a cheap produce, either switch to a high value crop, or sell off the farm to someone who can.

Then get a job and buy cheap rice farmed by someone else.

Nonsensical! You must be the only person in the world who thinks there is a surplus of rice in the world.

Even if it were anywhere near true, the person leaving farming would have to be replaced by someone else wouldnt they? or the amount of rice produced would go down and prices go up. Then the farmer who left his fields would also have to pay more for his rice and he would still be unhappy.

Trogers is absolutely right. The reason rice is so cheap is that there is a worldwide glut. Yes there are people who could use it but can't afford it but that's a result of a lack of them entering even the 20th century of technology and production. That really isn't relevant for the Thai farmer who can sell rice only to people who have money - create demand.

[ourmanflint]

I very much doubt any of the geniuses giving out advice here to the farmers would be anywhere near the position in life they are if they too were born into a rice farmers family.

Farmers worldwide have a tough life, and the job they do is essential as it provides cheap food for the masses. I know this is explaining the obvious but it seems some here do not understand the simplest simplest thing when it comes to the economics of food production.

Telling farmers to go get a job to better themselves is about as stupid a comment as could possibly be made.

With all due respect, this is simply not true. The best thing a poor, small holding farmer can do for himself, his family, and the community is to sell his farm to enlarge another farm, and learn a trade or profession from the modern world of mechanization and technology.

We don't want to see farmers stay in the 18th century as poor people walking behind a buffalo or stooping all day in a field so that we can have cheap food. The food process will be just a cheap or cheaper due to productivity of mechanization which can only be economically viable on a larger scale. Farmers who stay on those small farms stay poor and don't get to enter the 21st century of economic opportunity. This is partly why Thailand is still third world.

Before you challenge my credentials let me just tell you that I grew up on a 4,000 acre (almost 10,000 rai) wheat and cattle ranch in the W. US and I do know something about a profitable farm and ranch. I know something about economy of scale where the large farmer can easily afford to own wheat combines and also make money doing the small neighbor's wheat and therefore even keep those machines productive and profitable. I earned all of my spending money and bought my first new car from driving wheat combines and dump trucks harvesting neighbors wheat. I made quite a bit of money driving tractors prepping fields and planting wheat.

Just as a kid I was making a lot more money that any Thai rice farmer I know simply from the fact that I could harvest and haul wheat to market from about 100 acres (250 rai) of wheat per day all by myself. Productivity in the 20th century.

In this way you have one guy who's farming with mechanization and technology while making a lot of money and a whole bunch of other people who don't have to farm get to eat cheap food. Those other people can make our smartphones and computers and big screen TVs - things that didn't even exist when the Thai farmers learned to farm. Everyone makes more money and has more and newer things.

I know this isn't about wheat but the principle is the same. Take a look please.

…One bushel of wheat contains approximately one million individual kernels (berries).

…A modern combine can harvest 1,000 bushels (60 pounds = one bushel of wheat) per hour. 60,000 pounds of wheat per hour!!

…A family of four could live 10 years off the bread produced by one acre (2.5 rai) of wheat.

LINK

Hi, nice post and I really appreciate that you have a vast amount of experience of farming, but I think your experience has very little relevance to farming in Thailand. Just look at the landscape of many rice growing communities, the principal of mechanization may not be practical unless you have huge superpaddies, paddies here are fractured, combines may work well in big fields as in the USA, but are they as efficient in small fields when you have to factor in access and travelling time?. This would need a massive revolution in how rice is grown in Thailand and is just unlikely to ever happen.

[NeverSure]

I can only suggest you research a few basic concepts before commenting further. Start with "labour intensive" then try "mechanisation" and then go to "productivity".

In case you lack the time or skill, let me summarise fr you. Too many workers working in a labour intensive industry producing a low value crop result in poverty for most of them. Reducing the number of workers, increasing the acreage of each farm, and using mechanical equipment results in sufficient yield per worker to afford them a reasonable income, and the market price actually drops.

Hilarious nonsense from someone who has absolutley no clue about farming in Thailand or Asia. Western arrogance at its very best.

He's absolutely right. His statement right there reads like a passage from a master's degree in agriculture textbook which would be used by your "Western arrogance" universities who have taught Western farmers how to be wealthy.

Farming is big business in the West. Your typical large farmer or rancher will have a million USD (33.5 million baht) in his checking account just for operating capital. I posted a link above where that farmer on a combine can harvest 60,000 pounds (27,000 kg) of wheat per hour. Which Thai does anything close to that with rice? I see them out in the field stooped over planting rice by hand.

They are poor due to small holdings resulting in too much manual labor and a lack of productivity. If one of them spent US$300,000 (10 million baht) on a combine with a 15 - 20 meter wide harvesting head, where would he even find room to turn it around in the field?

[ourmanflint]

I can only suggest you research a few basic concepts before commenting further. Start with "labour intensive" then try "mechanisation" and then go to "productivity".

In case you lack the time or skill, let me summarise fr you. Too many workers working in a labour intensive industry producing a low value crop result in poverty for most of them. Reducing the number of workers, increasing the acreage of each farm, and using mechanical equipment results in sufficient yield per worker to afford them a reasonable income, and the market price actually drops.

Hilarious nonsense from someone who has absolutley no clue about farming in Thailand or Asia. Western arrogance at its very best.

He's absolutely right. His statement right there reads like a passage from a master's degree in agriculture textbook which would be used by your "Western arrogance" universities who have taught Western farmers how to be wealthy.

Farming is big business in the West. Your typical large farmer or rancher will have a million USD (33.5 million baht) in his checking account just for operating capital. I posted a link above where that farmer on a combine can harvest 60,000 pounds (27,000 kg) of wheat per hour. Which Thai does anything close to that with rice? I see them out in the field stooped over planting rice by hand.

They are poor due to small holdings resulting in too much manual labor and a lack of productivity. If one of them spent US$300,000 (10 million baht) on a combine with a 15 - 20 meter wide harvesting head, where would he even find room to turn it around in the field?

Hang on! How can Thai farmers be inefficient when as you said there is also a local glut on rice production, they cannot surely be both inefficient and overproduce rice can they?

[BSJ]

When it comes to harvesting rice and corn were I am most of the contract guys use Sakpattana machines. I went to a funeral in Wang Phup with the wife a few weeks ago and there's a guy there with 9 lined up! There are 5 contractors in Wang Plong with 1, 1, 2, 2, and 3 Sakpattana machines.

But the small farmer can't afford these machines or the smaller Kubota....the exception here being the wifes Uncle who has a Kubota. But he only has it because the family give him all the rice and corn harvest.

So any talk about your average Thai farmer having his own is unrealistic. Forget it!

Besides, who wants a machine that sits idle for many months of the year?

[ExPratt]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Rice farmers in major plantation areas, especially the Central region, are ploughing ahead with a second crop, despite the threat of drought. Most say they're willing to take the chance due to attractive prices at this time.

The ploughing of the fields now is for the first crop of the season with the expectation of this years rains

They are going ahead with it in this part of Ayutthaya

[brain150]

it is highly alerting to read so much BS as written in this threat !!!

Obviously empathy is no longer part of the human race.

"When the last fish is fished, the last corn is eaten, then people will find out that you cannot eat an iPhone !"

Industrial farming is NOT working !

The nutritional value of the available food these days is close to zero !!!

The people who feed us are treated like shit because the brainwashed population believes

that making MONEY is all there is ... just imagine if your money cannot buy you food [or at least something that would be food if it was available !!!]

Most modern diseases are caused by malnutrition, simple and easy like this.

The answer to all problems: ... just go and find a better job !!! Just like a banker who doesn't produce anything of any value but is on top

of society because Society is so brainwashed that it cannot see the tree in the forest ???

The moral high ground of the people in here is astounding ... especially from Europe or the US.

What is this based on ??? 97% of the corn in the US is now GMO ... uneatable for humans !!!

Animals are fed on antibiotics and hormones ...

As long as it looks like food and money can buy it nobody will care.

... when the children get sick and start to die then people will still find an excuse not to open their eyes !!!

Wake up people !!!

And if you have not already forgotten all about it: Remember who you are !!! [and maybe remember what it means to be a human being !!!!]

[thaibeachlovers]

Start with the classifieds like most of us, or check out the Labour ministry? Provided they can read...

You're obviously NOT A THAI RICE FARMER, whose family has farmed Rice for generations!!

Please FH, don't under estimate the stupids on here who denigrate those whose farming efforts have been the backbone of the economy for generations.

trogers can probably read and perhaps even write, but how smug he must be to make such insulting and patronising comments about those whose hard and honest labour puts his rice on the table.

Some times the Fwits on TV are just too much.

Phil you have to admit the farming industry in Thailand has not not been keeping up with modern technology and practices, and the rice farmers seem to be the ones lagging behind the most. The govt of course is at fault in many ways. Instead of pushing subsidies to gain votes at election time, they should have been pushing for strains that produced higher yields, better methods, using less fertilizers, and helping to purchase machinery to lessen the burden of manual labor. As well as providing the ability to irrigate larger areas. But rice farmers themselves are equally at fault, while they were scrounging for more and more subsidies, their neighbors and the rest of the world got modern.

I read PhilW's post in the quote above, then I went looking for it because I wanted to add a "like." But it looks like Metisdead removed it for some reason. It is easy for educated folks to denigrate those who are not educated and come from families that have never been educated. But the bar is high for those from uneducated families to simply "pull themselves out of it." For one thing, education costs money (and please do not say education is free in Thailand; it is NOT), and the uneducated seldom have much money as they reside at the bottom of the economic food chain. Folks that come from educated families have no concept of what it is like.

An uneducated farmer is not going to suddenly change and employ more modern methods. Vietnam has greatly increased its production by introducing modern farming methods, but it has been by government initiative. If the government held local seminars for farmers, and provided consultants, the new seed and machinery free of charge (instead of subsidies), Thai farmers would embrace the program. But as it is, don't blame the farmer. The countries similar to Thailand that "got modern" while Thai farmers were "scrounging for subsidies" did so ONLY because of government programs providing the tools and guidance. Thai farmers have not been offered this.

Ironically, the best way for farmers to move toward a more successful model is to use less machinery or none at all, to focus on a small amount of rice, about 30 percent of their available land, simplify all of their practices, save their own seeds, make compost and fertilizer from what is readily available, dig swales and diversify from what is available and free which is a lot, focus more on what is here now. You can make oil from moringa, neem powders, many types of plants that can be used for tea, herbal pills made with honey and sunlight, fermented products that can store from rice, beans, flours from pigeon pea, cowpea, small ponds hand dug with fish, chickens, eggs, frogs, all relatively free. As to money for cars and school and computers and air conditioning there is no solution in the mainstream society.

helping to purchase machinery to lessen the burden of manual labor

And your plan to employ those made redundant is?

Even more poor people flooding into the cities in search of work is IMO not a good idea.

The only people that would be happy are the scum employers that wish to exploit workers and the gogo bar owners.

[thaibeachlovers]

I very much doubt any of the geniuses giving out advice here to the farmers would be anywhere near the position in life they are if they too were born into a rice farmers family.

Farmers worldwide have a tough life, and the job they do is essential as it provides cheap food for the masses. I know this is explaining the obvious but it seems some here do not understand the simplest simplest thing when it comes to the economics of food production.

Telling farmers to go get a job to better themselves is about as stupid a comment as could possibly be made.

With all due respect, this is simply not true. The best thing a poor, small holding farmer can do for himself, his family, and the community is to sell his farm to enlarge another farm, and learn a trade or profession from the modern world of mechanization and technology.

We don't want to see farmers stay in the 18th century as poor people walking behind a buffalo or stooping all day in a field so that we can have cheap food. The food process will be just a cheap or cheaper due to productivity of mechanization which can only be economically viable on a larger scale. Farmers who stay on those small farms stay poor and don't get to enter the 21st century of economic opportunity. This is partly why Thailand is still third world.

Before you challenge my credentials let me just tell you that I grew up on a 4,000 acre (almost 10,000 rai) wheat and cattle ranch in the W. US and I do know something about a profitable farm and ranch. I know something about economy of scale where the large farmer can easily afford to own wheat combines and also make money doing the small neighbor's wheat and therefore even keep those machines productive and profitable. I earned all of my spending money and bought my first new car from driving wheat combines and dump trucks harvesting neighbors wheat. I made quite a bit of money driving tractors prepping fields and planting wheat.

Just as a kid I was making a lot more money that any Thai rice farmer I know simply from the fact that I could harvest and haul wheat to market from about 100 acres (250 rai) of wheat per day all by myself. Productivity in the 20th century.

In this way you have one guy who's farming with mechanization and technology while making a lot of money and a whole bunch of other people who don't have to farm get to eat cheap food. Those other people can make our smartphones and computers and big screen TVs - things that didn't even exist when the Thai farmers learned to farm. Everyone makes more money and has more and newer things.

I know this isn't about wheat but the principle is the same. Take a look please.

…One bushel of wheat contains approximately one million individual kernels (berries).

…A modern combine can harvest 1,000 bushels (60 pounds = one bushel of wheat) per hour. 60,000 pounds of wheat per hour!!

…A family of four could live 10 years off the bread produced by one acre (2.5 rai) of wheat.

LINK

So, what is the unemployment rate in the US, and what is it in Thailand?

You want all the displaced people to go and make smartphones for westerners- do you think it is OK for exploited Asians to work in factories so rich westerners can live the high life?

[aaacorp]

Dear rice farmers!!

Maybe time to get a job??...................

Please show us how you could handle such "hobby".... I m quite sure you won t be able to last a single day in the fields...

[aaacorp]

And where is 50 year old rice farmer going to get a job ?

If all these rice paddies turned into veggie patches where would they be able to sell them and at what price ?

Start with the classifieds like most of us, or check out the Labour ministry? Provided they can read...

You seem to have a very high opinion of yourself and a very low esteem for the people who feed you...

[thaibeachlovers]

I very much doubt any of the geniuses giving out advice here to the farmers would be anywhere near the position in life they are if they too were born into a rice farmers family.

Farmers worldwide have a tough life, and the job they do is essential as it provides cheap food for the masses. I know this is explaining the obvious but it seems some here do not understand the simplest simplest thing when it comes to the economics of food production.

Telling farmers to go get a job to better themselves is about as stupid a comment as could possibly be made.

There is surplus supply of rice for mankind. If these farmers cannot survive from farming such a cheap produce, either switch to a high value crop, or sell off the farm to someone who can.

Then get a job and buy cheap rice farmed by someone else.

Nonsensical! You must be the only person in the world who thinks there is a surplus of rice in the world.

Even if it were anywhere near true, the person leaving farming would have to be replaced by someone else wouldnt they? or the amount of rice produced would go down and prices go up. Then the farmer who left his fields would also have to pay more for his rice and he would still be unhappy.

I can only suggest you research a few basic concepts before commenting further. Start with "labour intensive" then try "mechanisation" and then go to "productivity".

In case you lack the time or skill, let me summarise fr you. Too many workers working in a labour intensive industry producing a low value crop result in poverty for most of them. Reducing the number of workers, increasing the acreage of each farm, and using mechanical equipment results in sufficient yield per worker to afford them a reasonable income, and the market price actually drops.

If your plan were to happen, the mongers would be happy as thousands of poor women would be forced to go work in the bars. In case you hadn't noticed, there is no economic safety net in Thailand for redundant people.

[Praematura]

This economy should be transitioning into a middle income with services replacing the type of labor intensive industries but the lack of education of those affected, lack of English skills has trapped them.

The government really needs to implement a credible alternative than telling them to grow fruit.

I see the situation getting worse once ASEAN is fully implemented with a chunk of the population unable to complete.