Government concerned with foreigners being ripped off by Thai hospitals

[chiang mai]

My (Thai) wife's gall bladder removal op. (last month) cost THB 7k at the Provincial hospital versus a quote of THB 83k for the same OP at a private hospital. Interestingly, two TVF forum members, both westerners had the OP at the same private hospital for, wait for it, THB 83K.

Meanwhile, I had a stent implanted at a major private hospital, as did a Thai relative, we both paid THB 173k (seven years ago). Interestingly, I have read about other farangs who had the same OP at the same hospital and all claimed to have paid in excess of THB 500K.

Mrs CM had an endoscopy at another private hospital where she paid the same amount that I did six months previously, some farangs have reported on TVF that they have paid substantially more than we paid.

Based on the above examples I have difficulty understanding who is getting ripped off, how and why.

[gemguy]

Ahhhhhh....Hospitals.....do not get me started about hospitals.

Yes they are in it for the money as most of the hospitals are private hospitals and they are owned by people and their corporations that are proud to say their hospital based and medical care based business is thriving and flourishing and making loads of profit while they invite people to participate because medical and health care are up there in the top 10 percent of very lucrative and profitable businesses and amongst the large growth industries in the nation.

However ...that is not anything special because that is the case in any nation concerning the medical and health care industries including the related pharmaceutical industry that helps to sustain and perpetuate the hospital and health care industries.

Sad to say folks...they more or less got you by the balls.......and that includes the health and medical insurance industry that is also very lucrative and profitable and of course all interconnected to the whole affair.

If the government were to come down on the industry and take away those lucrative profits then you can surmise there would be far less incentive for corporations and or investors and far less participation in the medical and health care related infrastructure.

Thailand has a surprising numbers of hospitals and medical facilities...in an otherwise said to be poor nation....but not by way of the governments efforts rather far more so by way of free enterprise and investors chasing after a very profitable and lucrative business model.....that being ....build hospitals and charge a lot for their specialized services and accommodations.....while the profitable business model works well.

If left up to the government to take up the slack in a vital and critical aspect of the nations well being and the citizens well being then you can only surmise just how run amuck the whole medical and health related affair would be under the lead of the existing government and or governments in the future.

Either way hospitals and the health care system are always going to remain expensive....as proven so in every country no matter which approach is taken...it is expensive and the citizens end up paying for it directly or indirectly...some how some way.

[maidee]

hospitals is no different from average somchai & bargirl

every farang is rich, let's take as much as we can

specially if he has insurance

[trogers]

Have you read about the latest social issue in Singapore?

The people there are saying it is cheaper to die than to fall sick in Singapore.

The same can be said about foreigners in Thailand.

[X pat]

If you're a foreigner, and in Chiang Mai, and want to be seriously overcharged for anything medical, simply go to Ram Hospital. You can go to Rajavaj, or McCormick for the same - if not better - treatment, for about half the price. Trust me, I've had the experience and know all about it.

I beleave you could say the same for Ram Hospital in KhonKaen to.

[English 1]

No doubt about it the costs at the best private hospital are sky high.

I recently had an Op and the cost with 1 night stay was 285,000 Baht.

I checked one of the top London hospitals and they quoted 200,000 Baht.

The treatment in Bangkok was superb and the staff of the highest standards.

Edited May 11, 2015 by metisdead
Bold font removed, again.

[soalbundy]

In Surin i had an OP for a hernia in a private hospital, Ruam Pet, i had a gold mesh put in to stop a repeat hernia, one night in a private room, 40K, I thought that was very reasonable. In the OP i had a local anesthetic, all the staff introduced themselves and told me what each of them would be doing, the scar is so fine that after one year now i can't see it.

[monspencer]

If you are an expat and live here as I do without insurance (because of age), then, unless you are extremely wealthy, forget the private hospitals and find a good government hospital.

A few months back I was feeling unwell and was coughing up blood so I went to the hospital I generally use In Si Racha which is about 15 miles from where I live just outside Pattaya.

After a bit of waiting to see the doctor, I was sent for blood tests, an xray and was given an ECG. I was then prescribed a two week supply of tablets. Total bill 1200 Baht.

Went back after the two weeks and was given the all clear.

I am certainly not complaining about being ripped off.

[Saan]

If you're a foreigner, and in Chiang Mai, and want to be seriously overcharged for anything medical, simply go to Ram Hospital. You can go to Rajavaj, or McCormick for the same - if not better - treatment, for about half the price. Trust me, I've had the experience and know all about it.

I had a recent hip replacement at one of the two hospitals you recommended and came out with a bill almost a third more than quoted. When I queried the bill I was told one of the reasons it was so high was they had to use a larger replacement hip. I told them I was the same size as when I was given the quote but all to no avail.

[trogers]

This should be an argument between the insurance companies and the hospitals.

One of Bumnumgrad majority shareholders is Bangkok insurance PLC........I wonder is they argue among themselves

And the major shareholder of Bangkok Insurance is...

[Lupatria]

They should involve the TAT who is still promoting the hub of medical tourism...

[NextStationBangkok]

After entering a hospital, when open the mouth for any questions, the nurse will insert the thermometer!

One should remember that the nurse who checks your temperature, weight and height for no reason is already costing you 150-250 Baht, which yourself can fill that column.

Most of the health issues can be slowly improved by Yoga or light exercise if you spend 1 hour a day. It may cost you 1000-1500 month at the fitness center. It is worth paying and keep yourself healthy living here. I feel the insurance companies should reimburse part of the money if we don't use it much, that can give encouragement for the people to keep themselves healthy.

[BestBitterPhuket]

I went to the prominent ...... hospital (can't name names in Thailand), for a minor surgery. I expected itbto be cheaper than singapore so that I could save the ticket to singapore, and it would still be covered by my singapore insurance. Their "offer" was $10,000. I told them that I had a singapore insurance and the cost of the procedure at Gleneagles in Singapore (the best hospital in S-E Asia), was $4,000. Then I was told that they were going to make me another much better offer, but I told them don't bother, as I would prefer to pay for my ticket to singapore and do it at a hospital who can be trusted.

[cumgranosalum]

I would suspect that this is more concerned with "image" than actually achieving anything.

The entire health system in Thailand is open to some very serious doubts.

Performance, consistency and training of ALL staff should be of particular concern.

for too many people rely on purely anecdotal evidence (recommendations etc.) and get a highly distorted idea of what the industry is like.

above all there is as yet virtually no comeback in the Thai industry due to the rigid hierarchical nature of the industry and an almost complete lack of accountability legislation or monitoring by outside agencies.

[PilotEd]

In 2006 I had an operation for stenosis at Bangkok Int'l. I was on the table for 6 hours. It wound up costing me the equivalent of 15000 USD. I sent a copy of the disc that was provided to me by the hospital with details. I sent a copy to a doctor friend (radiologist) in the USA. He said the operation was done well and that in the USA it would have cost $100000. With Medicare paying 80% it still would have cost more not even figuring traveling costs. So if I have been ripped off I am OK with that.

[cumgranosalum]

I think it is also worth pointing out to members posting on this thread that

"THE PLURAL OF ANECDOTE IS NOT DATA"

[Hans vliege]

It should be time for a cheap Thai assurance for all the in Thailand permanent living foreigners! They bring every month a lot of money in the economy of Thailand, but the governement treat them als second ranked people. So P.M. show your good meaning with us and do something, on this moment as a foreigner i and many others have to pay between 400 and 500 EURO every month!

[glasswort]

Just last week I was quoted in excess of THB 600k for an operation to be performed at Bangkok Pattaya Hospital, almost all of that being paid in advance. BUPA has spent many millions of baht at this hospital on my behalf over the past 10 years, but as I am now retired I cannot afford the level of BUPA cover that I previously enjoyed. No wishing to spend that sort of money I went to the Royal Naval Hospital in Sattahip and will have the operation performed tomorrow morning for less than THB200k. I will post a report in due course.

[slipperylobster]

I can only comment on our own personal experience with private Thai hospitals and coincidentally that was today.

My wife woke up this morning and found blood in her urine on her first toilet call. We promptly visited Bangkok Hospital in PHS and the service was efficient, friendly and affordable.

In and out of the hospital within forty-five minutes and all for 1300 baht, which included consultation and antibiotics. No requirement to fall back on our travel insurance for such a reasonable amount.

If we want to talk about expensive private treatment in the UK then we can talk all day. Thailand comes no where near.

I am privately covered by my employer in the UK and no way could I afford it without their generosity.

Your wife is Thai? The subject concerns foreigners...not Thai.

However, I am glad you shared this information, even if she is Thai. It shows the disparity.

[cumgranosalum]

I went to the prominent ...... hospital (can't name names in Thailand), for a minor surgery. I expected itbto be cheaper than singapore so that I could save the ticket to singapore, and it would still be covered by my singapore insurance. Their "offer" was $10,000. I told them that I had a singapore insurance and the cost of the procedure at Gleneagles in Singapore (the best hospital in S-E Asia), was $4,000. Then I was told that they were going to make me another much better offer, but I told them don't bother, as I would prefer to pay for my ticket to singapore and do it at a hospital who can be trusted.

What I find so disturbing about this anecdote is not the figures or the procedure.......it is the possibility that the hospital are prepared to haggle over pricing. If this proves to be the norm, it raises questions about the whole set of ethics that prevail in the Thai medical industry.

[robblok]

Great.. the general cares at least, can't say I ever seen the previous government care about us.

He must understand that most guys that live here prefer him over the old government (except a vocal minority).

Of course hospitals rip of foreigners its common knowledge. Part of the reason why i got insurance.

[kennw]

Prices for medication are also highly inflated whe issued by the major hospital pharmacies, and they are often unnecessarily prescribed. Suggest you always ask if the medication is available at outside pharmacies, some are not, buy outside whenever you can.

[Yann55]

Not long ago I went to a major hospital in Pattaya (I suppose I can't say the name due to some bizarre rules in this country) for a zona (herpes zoster). The doctor was extremely unpleasant (not the point here I know) but he diagnosed it right away (good on him) and checked with an immediate lab test. So far so good (almost).

Then I was sent to pay the bill and get the medicine, which is acyclovir 800 made in Thailand by Vilerm.

- Physician's evaluation : 800. Not cheap but similar to other places.

- Laboratory : 200. I'd say very reasonable.

- As for the medicine itself... they sold me 30 tablets at 2250 bahts. That's 75 bahts a pop. I paid because I didn't know but next time I went to my favourite pharmacy in Jomtien I asked her if she sold that drug too. Yes she does, it's exactly the same brand, same dosage, same everything ... except she sells it for 26 bahts a pill.

So clearly the hospital ripped me off by selling me a drug at three times its normal price.

The thing is we foreigners tend to not imagine for one second that a hospital would do that, which turns us into ideal cash cows : we pay without giving it a second thought. But hospitals here can rip you off big time, especially in tourist areas, and they will, so my advice is keep your eyes open and compare prices whenever you can.

[khunianb]

It is very doubtful that this has anything to do with foreigners as ripping off foreigners is a Thai pastime. Most foreigners undertake elective surgery and are quoted a price that they agree to before surgery is undertaken.

This is related to the government trying to force private hospitals to accept patients of the government insurance schemes at grossly underfunded prices.

[Yann55]

Just last week I was quoted in excess of THB 600k for an operation to be performed at Bangkok Pattaya Hospital, almost all of that being paid in advance. BUPA has spent many millions of baht at this hospital on my behalf over the past 10 years, but as I am now retired I cannot afford the level of BUPA cover that I previously enjoyed. No wishing to spend that sort of money I went to the Royal Naval Hospital in Sattahip and will have the operation performed tomorrow morning for less than THB200k. I will post a report in due course.

By all means do, because I believe a lot of expats here in Pattaya and Jomtien are dying (no pun intended) to find a hospital with normal prices and a reasonable ethical approach to medicine, money and people, even if these people are (yurk!) farangs.

[SCARLETIBIS1]

I recently stayed overnight at a major well known hospital in CM that all the farongs know about. I thought I had food poisoning so I went to emergency room and they gave me a shot for pain and told me to stay overnight. They did no tests, took no blood or urine or exrays-nothing. When I left the next morning my bill came to 18K baht. I was floored. I refused to pay it. The bill showed a charge for 5000 baht for a drug you can buy over the counter for 100 baht at a pharmacy. It went on and on with bogus charges. So we played let's make a deal. "How much do you want to pay she said". I agreed to half which was probably half as much more than it should have been.

Anyway, when I had arrived at the emergency room I brought in a carryall my reading glasses and my Kindle reader. I never used either. When I got home that morning I noticed the Kindle was missing. They had stolen it while I was asleep and kept it for collateral I guess because they had it at the check out.

When I checked out I only had 5000 baht on me so I said I would come back next morning. But they already stolen it out of my bag. I was furious. When I returned I wanted to make a police report. They said they called the police but the police were too busy to come so maybe they didn't really call them. I then talked with a director who said they would reimburse me but they never did.

When I posted this story I used the hospital name but it was deleted by the moderators. Can't imagine why since it now appears this happens all the time here.

Of course I was told I could be sued for libel. Since it is all true I guess Libel in Thailand is not the same as in civilized countries since if it is true it ain't Libel.

Edited May 11, 2015 by SCARLETIBIS1

[Mot Dang]

The title should read Tourists, not foreigners. There are many foreigners living here that are never ripped off by hospitals.

The only one ever to rip me off was Bamrungrad, but they rip off Thais and foreigners.

I think its horses for courses. Recently my daughter spent 2 days in Bamrungrad (spelling ?) Hospital, off lower Sukhumvit, for a tonsils operation. I paid about 100,000 baht, about $A 3,800 all up. I was not unhappy with that. Last year I spent 2 days in ICU at the Bangkok Hospital in Hua Hin for seafood toxin poisoning. All up 37,000 baht. I considered that OK. In both hospitals I thought the care was brilliant.

I don't question how people feel about their hospital experiences in Thailand, but for me I'm quite happy. And I do recognize that things are very different out in the provinces. That is why I brought my daughter from up-country to BKK for the operation.

[jackanapes]

I am all in favour of a government inquiry into obvious unfair prices charged by private hospitals this is something which has been in effect for quite a long time .

[SCARLETIBIS1]

I am stunned that most of these posts are naming the hospitals that ripped them off since when I mentioned the hospital name of what happened to me the mods deleted it with heavy warnings to me. No consistency here it appears.

Let's just say I would never go to Chiang Mai Ram hospital unless I had a heart attack in front of their premises.

[hugh2121]

I can only comment on our own personal experience with private Thai hospitals and coincidentally that was today.

My wife woke up this morning and found blood in her urine on her first toilet call. We promptly visited Bangkok Hospital in PHS and the service was efficient, friendly and affordable.

In and out of the hospital within forty-five minutes and all for 1300 baht, which included consultation and antibiotics. No requirement to fall back on our travel insurance for such a reasonable amount.

If we want to talk about expensive private treatment in the UK then we can talk all day. Thailand comes no where near.

I am privately covered by my employer in the UK and no way could I afford it without their generosity.

But at least the charge is the same for all.