Vatican recognizes state of Palestine in new treaty

[krisb]

If there wasn't a Jewish Israel, the Arab/Muslim world would have to invent one. Perfect scapegoat to blame all their own failings on, and those failings are massive.

Couched so carefully that your tame apologists on this forum could argue that your post is not racist....but it is.

A bizarre and silly post nonetheless.

I'm concerned patient Thing is becoming quite manic over all things Israel. We need to up the zanex Dr. Edited May 14, 2015 by krisb

[Jingthing]

I'm concerned patient Thing is becoming quite manic over all things Israel. We need to up the zanex Dr.

Is the name of this imaginary doctor, Dr. Harvey Adhominem by any chance?

[konying]

Another stepping stone towards justice. After a few more EU states do the right thing, the EU itself will too.

The writing is on the wall, and it is clear to nearly everyone the direction this is heading. But some (especially some here) either have their heads buried so deep in the sand or like petulant children, they simply refuse to admit it.

Bravo, Pope Francis!

I can not wait to see your comments and Pope's reaction when the fight for leadership will break out between Hamas, Fatah and possibly ISIS,

[krisb]

If there wasn't a Jewish Israel, the Arab/Muslim world would have to invent one. Perfect scapegoat to blame all their own failings on, and those failings are massive.

Consider the high percentage of people in the Arab and Muslim who actually believe the 9-11 attack on the USA was done by Israel.

What percentage should we be considering?

[boomerangutang]

If there wasn't a Jewish Israel, the Arab/Muslim world would have to invent one. Perfect scapegoat to blame all their own failings on, and those failings are massive.

Consider the high percentage of people in the Arab and Muslim who actually believe the 9-11 attack on the USA was done by Israel.

What percentage should we be considering?

Quite high, probably in the 90's. But being wrong and very subjective about an attack on the US is not grounds to deny sovereignty. There are other reasons to deny Statehood at this time.

[Scott]

Inflammatory posts and replies removed.

[Naam]

Considering they sided with Hitler, the news isn't surprising is it?

Rubbish, the Vatican was strictly neutral throughout the war

next interesting claim will be that the Pope was a member of the SS

They did call him Hitler's Pope.

correct when referrung to Pius XII who had quite some facts but did not speak out. however, to the best of my knowledge Pius is dead since decades and was not involved in the recent acknowledgment of Palestine.

[Jingthing]

Some interesting history exposed in this item.

The Vatican recognized the Nazi regime within four months of its existence.

The Vatican did not recognize the state of Israel which came into existence in 1948 until 1993!

The "State of Palestine" which arguably doesn't really exist as yet is now recognized by the Vatican.

Hmmm.

Why has such a different standard been applied to Israel? Because of anti-Semitism and the aversion they felt upon seeing Israel again among the family of nations. For the Vatican, an independent Jewish State bearing the name “Israel,” with Jerusalem as its capital, and a renewal of life in the land of the Bible, has been the most complex theological Christian problem and a total contradiction to Church dogma.

And now, because of the same anti-Semitism, the Vatican has hurried to recognize the “State of Palestine”, this Trojan horse against the Jewish people, a tool to dismantle the State of Israel and a proto-Nazi entity from which all the Jews are to be cleansed.

We note in shock Pope Francis’ eagerness to recognize the “State of Palestine” before it has even yet arisen and we recall the eagerness of another Pope to recognize the Nazi regime just four months after it was established.

They are both declarations of moral war against the Jewish people.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/16922

[NeverSure]

It's nice to see the self-proclaimed atheists cheering for a religion. Especially a religion which calls its God "The God of Israel." I'm not and never have been a member, nor do I approve of the Catholic Church, but Google is my friend. The statements below are the Catholic Church speaking its doctrine to its followers.

From The official Catechism of the Roman Catholic Church:

201 To Israel, his chosen, God revealed himself as the only One: "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD; and you shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might."4 Through the prophets, God calls Israel and all nations to turn to him, the one and only God: "Turn to me and be saved, all the ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other.. . To me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear. 'Only in the LORD, it shall be said of me, are righteousness and strength.'"5

205 "I Am who I Am". Moses said to God, "If I come to the people of Israel and say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you', and they ask me, 'What is his name?' what shall I say to them?" God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM." And he said, "Say this to the people of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you'. . . this is my name for ever, and thus I am to be remembered throughout all generations."10

212 Over the centuries, Israel's faith was able to manifest and deepen realization of the riches contained in the revelation of the divine name. God is unique; there are no other gods besides him.24 He transcends the world and history. He made heaven and earth: "They will perish, but you endure; they will all wear out like a garment. . . .but you are the same, and your years have no end."25 In God "there is no variation or shadow due to change."26 God is "HE WHO IS", from everlasting to everlasting, and as such remains ever faithful to himself and to his promises.

218 In the course of its history, Israel was able to discover that God had only one reason to reveal himself to them, a single motive for choosing them from among all peoples as his special possession: his sheer gratuitous love.38 And thanks to the prophets Israel understood that it was again out of love that God never stopped saving them and pardoning their unfaithfulness and sins.39

[NeverSure]

The Vatican is the only place I've ever been where I absolutely got the creeps for no reason that I could identify. Perhaps I felt the centuries of evil including the creepy pedophilia which was imposed on so many. I stepped into a distant land from a long time ago and my skin crawled. I can see why it's a separate country. There's nothing else like it. To me St. Peter's Basilica was just old and creepy and nothing beautiful at all yet I guess it's supposed to be one of the most famous "churches" there is.

Even the Sistine Chapel with the ceiling paintings by Michelangelo is creepy. It is the chapel of the Apostolic Palace which is the residence of the Pope. What a creepy bunch of people, and who gives a damn what they think.

[Naam]

The Vatican is the only place I've ever been where I absolutely got the creeps for no reason that I could identify. Perhaps I felt the centuries of evil including the creepy pedophilia which was imposed on so many. I stepped into a distant land from a long time ago and my skin crawled. I can see why it's a separate country. There's nothing else like it. To me St. Peter's Basilica was just old and creepy and nothing beautiful at all yet I guess it's supposed to be one of the most famous "churches" there is.

Even the Sistine Chapel with the ceiling paintings by Michelangelo is creepy. It is the chapel of the Apostolic Palace which is the residence of the Pope. What a creepy bunch of people, and who gives a damn what they think.

some give a dàmn

Vatican officially recognizes Palestine, while Israel fumes

http://rt.com/news/258297-vatican-palestine-state-recognize/

[dexterm]

The Vatican is the only place I've ever been where I absolutely got the creeps for no reason that I could identify. Perhaps I felt the centuries of evil including the creepy pedophilia which was imposed on so many. I stepped into a distant land from a long time ago and my skin crawled. I can see why it's a separate country. There's nothing else like it. To me St. Peter's Basilica was just old and creepy and nothing beautiful at all yet I guess it's supposed to be one of the most famous "churches" there is.

Even the Sistine Chapel with the ceiling paintings by Michelangelo is creepy. It is the chapel of the Apostolic Palace which is the residence of the Pope. What a creepy bunch of people, and who gives a damn what they think.

some give a dàmn

Vatican officially recognizes Palestine, while Israel fumes

http://rt.com/news/258297-vatican-palestine-state-recognize/

1.2 billion Roman Catholics give a damn....almost a quarter of the world's population.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-21443313

Let's hope the Pope's recognition of Palestine gets a mention in next week's sermon.

Edited May 14, 2015 by dexterm

[Ulysses G.]

The Vatican recognized the Nazi regime within four months of its existence.

So, there is precedent for this idiocy.

[Linky]

Another stepping stone towards justice. After a few more EU states do the right thing, the EU itself will too.

The writing is on the wall, and it is clear to nearly everyone the direction this is heading. But some (especially some here) either have their heads buried so deep in the sand or like petulant children, they simply refuse to admit it.

Bravo, Pope Francis!

I can not wait to see your comments and Pope's reaction when the fight for leadership will break out between Hamas, Fatah and possibly ISIS,

Probably the same reaction as the approx 130 countries that recognise Palestine. Just adding more and more to recognise it was until the US and Israel are the only ones left. The Pariahs.

[Credo]

The Vatican is the only place I've ever been where I absolutely got the creeps for no reason that I could identify. Perhaps I felt the centuries of evil including the creepy pedophilia which was imposed on so many. I stepped into a distant land from a long time ago and my skin crawled. I can see why it's a separate country. There's nothing else like it. To me St. Peter's Basilica was just old and creepy and nothing beautiful at all yet I guess it's supposed to be one of the most famous "churches" there is.

Even the Sistine Chapel with the ceiling paintings by Michelangelo is creepy. It is the chapel of the Apostolic Palace which is the residence of the Pope. What a creepy bunch of people, and who gives a damn what they think.

Oh, oh, somebody isn't going to go to heaven!

[Scott]

NeverSure, if your post removed maybe I can do it before God sees it.

[JingerBen]

The Vatican's recognition of Palestine may be the first fruit to come from Israel's recent elections.

The one positive aspect of Netanyahu's new coalition is that there will be no pretense or expectation about the prospect of Palestinian self-determination. This will add to Israel's growing international isolation and give further impetus to the increasingly effective Boycott, Sanctions and Divestment movement.

Israel's flagrant rejection of an independent Palestine may also galvanize the movement for a single binational state. This movement's ranks have been bolstered in recent years by the realization among more and more people that a two-state solution is no longer possible given the extent of Israel's colonization and fragmentation of Palestine.

Ironically, those Israeli politicians most vehemently against a Palestinian state may be bringing about their own worst nightmare - a binational state with equality of citizenry, rather than the Jewish ethnocracy/theocracy that currently exists and which they want to entrench.

The Palestinians might be able to turn Israel's intransigence and obstructionism - personified by its new government - into an opportunity. That is, if the incompetence of their leadership doesn't squander it.

Most likely the cycle of mindless violence will continue with no end in sight.

The only sensible way forward for the Palestinians is non-violent resistance against Israeli aggression. Hopefully, this latest encouragement from Europe will help to empower the moderates and marginalize the militants among them.

[Naam]

Some interesting history exposed in this item.

The Vatican recognized the Nazi regime within four months of its existence.

The Vatican did not recognize the state of Israel which came into existence in 1948 until 1993!

The "State of Palestine" which arguably doesn't really exist as yet is now recognized by the Vatican.

Hmmm.

the Nazi regime came into power in a democratic way based on free elections in an existing state.

today, dear children, the Right Honourable J. Ing. Thing, Esq. is lecturing how easy it is to mix up vegetables with various fruit based on near identical appearances such as potatoes and grapes, cauliflower and pineapple, as well as onions and strawberries.

[JingerBen]

Some interesting history exposed in this item.

The Vatican recognized the Nazi regime within four months of its existence.

The Vatican did not recognize the state of Israel which came into existence in 1948 until 1993!

The "State of Palestine" which arguably doesn't really exist as yet is now recognized by the Vatican.

Hmmm.

the Nazi regime came into power in a democratic way based on free elections in an existing state.

today, dear children, the Right Honourable J. Ing. Thing, Esq. is lecturing how easy it is to mix up vegetables with various fruit based on near identical appearances such as potatoes and grapes, cauliflower and pineapple, as well as onions and strawberries.

Otherwise known as a Pattaya Fruit Salad.

[geriatrickid]

Considering they sided with Hitler, the news isn't surprising is it?

Rubbish, the Vatican was strictly neutral throughout the war

Not exactly. The Vatican strongly supported Franco's fascists in their slaughter of the Republicans. Spain was "neutral" too yet aligned with the axis powers in WWII. The Church was also very active in the protection of Nazi war criminals after WWII providing safe passage to countries where the church held sway, like the Pope's stomping grounds of Argentina. A large part of the Roman Catholic hierarchy embraced neutrality in WWII because they thought it would save the church from the Nazis. And therein lies the repeat of history for the Vatican. The Vatican's position is predicated not so much on a concern for social justice, but a concern to protect its church in the middle east. Many locations the church considers holy are under PLA administration. In case you missed it, Christians are being killed with regularity in the muslim world and its churches and holy sites are being looted and desecrated. The church's position is one of appeasement. By making an empty gesture of sympathy for this arab group, it hopes to protect its own interests. The Church of Rome only recognized the state of Israel in 1993. Took them 45 years to it and that speaks volumes.

[Ulysses G.]

This will add to Israel's growing international isolation and give further impetus to the increasingly effective Boycott, Sanctions and Divestment movement.

Why do the "Zionist"-haters insist on reposting the same old discredited nonsense?

Boycotting Israel is a Stupendous Failure

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/gaza-strip-crisis-boycotting-israel-stupendous-failure-1459879

Boycotting Israel is doomed to fail

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2009/jan/24/israelandthepalestinians-internationaltrade

Britain's failing Israel boycott campaign

The Israel boycott movement is (rather hilariously in the quoted case) flopping in the UK. Maybe steam is running out of any enthusiasm for boycott campaigns that have zero effect on Israel’s economy

http://www.thecommentator.com/article/4219/britain_s_failing_israel_boycott_campaign

[boomerangutang]

I can not wait to see your comments and Pope's reaction when the fight for leadership will break out between Hamas, Fatah and possibly ISIS,

.... or Hezbollah or whatever extremist group is 'flavor of the month.'

Trouble is, fighting in Palestinian Territories isn't limited to Palestinians. It often spills over to Israel, and then shots are fired, bombs are dropped, and Palestinian leaders have added ammo to plead for sympathy from outside countries, who rush aid to the Territories. It's a bad cycle.

Palestinians need to deal with their problems, and drop the idea of Israel being destroyed, in order to take over that property. All over the world, there have been land-grabs and/or one side defeating the other side. Austria used to be bigger empire than it is now - is just one of a thousand examples. People adjust and go on. If people are bent on destruction, then nothing good can come of it.

[geriatrickid]

the Nazi regime came into power in a democratic way based on free elections in an existing state.

today, dear children, the Right Honourable J. Ing. Thing, Esq. is lecturing how easy it is to mix up vegetables with various fruit based on near identical appearances such as potatoes and grapes, cauliflower and pineapple, as well as onions and strawberries.

The repetition of a myth does not make it a fact. The Nazis never achieved a majority but attained power through a series of backroom deals that stripped the socialists and communists of their democratic rights. At the time, there was more opposition to the Nazis than there was support for them. The illegitimate Enabling Act of 1933 a short time after the election allowed Hitler to become dictator. The law could not be properly contested because opponents were blocked from doing so by violence and intimidation. The brown shirts were very good at murdering opponents. Shortly after the imposition of the Enabling Act. opposition parties were banned and the Reichstag dissolved.

Please study your own history. Many Germans were opposed to the Nazis and they paid the price. The same can be said for the Vatican's position. Many members of the Church do not support it. However, the Church hierarchy will use the same tools as it used against those who spoke out against corruption and sexual abuse by the Church, to silence critics. It's wonderful to be a leader who is declared infallible.

[JingerBen]

This will add to Israel's growing international isolation and give further impetus to the increasingly effective Boycott, Sanctions and Divestment movement.

Why do the "Zionist"-haters insist on reposting the same old discredited nonsense?

Boycotting Israel is a Stupendous Failure

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/gaza-strip-crisis-boycotting-israel-stupendous-failure-1459879

Boycotting Israel is doomed to fail

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2009/jan/24/israelandthepalestinians-internationaltrade

Britain's failing Israel boycott campaign

The Israel boycott movement is (rather hilariously in the quoted case) flopping in the UK. Maybe steam is running out of any enthusiasm for boycott campaigns that have zero effect on Israel’s economy

http://www.thecommentator.com/article/4219/britain_s_failing_israel_boycott_campaign

The Boycott, Sanctions and Divestment movement is beginning, it's not ending anytime soon.

How long did it take the South African resistance to bring about the needed changes to the apartheid regime?

Incidentally, please don't edit my posts.

[Linky]

Considering they sided with Hitler, the news isn't surprising is it?

Rubbish, the Vatican was strictly neutral throughout the war

Not exactly. The Vatican strongly supported Franco's fascists in their slaughter of the Republicans. Spain was "neutral" too yet aligned with the axis powers in WWII. The Church was also very active in the protection of Nazi war criminals after WWII providing safe passage to countries where the church held sway, like the Pope's stomping grounds of Argentina. A large part of the Roman Catholic hierarchy embraced neutrality in WWII because they thought it would save the church from the Nazis. And therein lies the repeat of history for the Vatican. The Vatican's position is predicated not so much on a concern for social justice, but a concern to protect its church in the middle east. Many locations the church considers holy are under PLA administration. In case you missed it, Christians are being killed with regularity in the muslim world and its churches and holy sites are being looted and desecrated. The church's position is one of appeasement. By making an empty gesture of sympathy for this arab group, it hopes to protect its own interests. The Church of Rome only recognized the state of Israel in 1993. Took them 45 years to it and that speaks volumes.

There are 130 nations that recognise a Palestinian state. The Vatican is late on the scene to recognise it.

There are still over 30 countries that do not recognise Israel. The Vatican was similarly late.

So when you look at the facts the Vatican has been quite standard, they have recognised each at about the same level as other countries did.

If the Vatican was concerned of the looting of churches etc it would not have waited until 130 countries recognised Palestine, they would have done so much earlier.

The list just keeps growing. ??

[JingerBen]

Considering they sided with Hitler, the news isn't surprising is it?

Rubbish, the Vatican was strictly neutral throughout the war

Not exactly. The Vatican strongly supported Franco's fascists in their slaughter of the Republicans. Spain was "neutral" too yet aligned with the axis powers in WWII. The Church was also very active in the protection of Nazi war criminals after WWII providing safe passage to countries where the church held sway, like the Pope's stomping grounds of Argentina. A large part of the Roman Catholic hierarchy embraced neutrality in WWII because they thought it would save the church from the Nazis. And therein lies the repeat of history for the Vatican. The Vatican's position is predicated not so much on a concern for social justice, but a concern to protect its church in the middle east. Many locations the church considers holy are under PLA administration. In case you missed it, Christians are being killed with regularity in the muslim world and its churches and holy sites are being looted and desecrated. The church's position is one of appeasement. By making an empty gesture of sympathy for this arab group, it hopes to protect its own interests. The Church of Rome only recognized the state of Israel in 1993. Took them 45 years to it and that speaks volumes.

There are 130 nations that recognise a Palestinian state. The Vatican is late on the scene to recognise it.

There are still over 30 countries that do not recognise Israel. The Vatican was similarly late.

So when you look at the facts the Vatican has been quite standard, they have recognised each at about the same level as other countries did.

If the Vatican was concerned of the looting of churches etc it would not have waited until 130 countries recognised Palestine, they would have done so much earlier.

The list just keeps growing. ??

Short and sweet and factual.

It clears the fog of propaganda.

Thanks.

[arunsakda]

Considering they sided with Hitler, the news isn't surprising is it?

Rubbish, the Vatican was strictly neutral throughout the war

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies removed.

[konying]

The Vatican is the only place I've ever been where I absolutely got the creeps for no reason that I could identify. Perhaps I felt the centuries of evil including the creepy pedophilia which was imposed on so many. I stepped into a distant land from a long time ago and my skin crawled. I can see why it's a separate country. There's nothing else like it. To me St. Peter's Basilica was just old and creepy and nothing beautiful at all yet I guess it's supposed to be one of the most famous "churches" there is.

Even the Sistine Chapel with the ceiling paintings by Michelangelo is creepy. It is the chapel of the Apostolic Palace which is the residence of the Pope. What a creepy bunch of people, and who gives a damn what they think.

some give a dàmn

Vatican officially recognizes Palestine, while Israel fumes

http://rt.com/news/258297-vatican-palestine-state-recognize/

1.2 billion Roman Catholics give a damn....almost a quarter of the world's population.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-21443313

Let's hope the Pope's recognition of Palestine gets a mention in next week's sermon.

1.2 billion do not seem to mind priests raping boys, but is that off topic I wonder?

[jdinasia]

In related fantasy news, Iran Ayatollah recognizes the U.S. state of Jefferson located between California and Oregon.

But California and Oregon don't.

StateofJeffersonMap.jpg

The world is steadily turning against Israel due to its treatment of the Palestinian people.

That is not fantasy.