'Democracy is more than polls'

[ddavidovsky]

Basket case.

[Happyman108]

I think the freedom mean.........if you don't like it here, you are free to leave

[Fat Haggis]

"True democracy, he said, was actually based on four principles: justice, equality, freedom and representation."

Education would be good too and a strong tradition.

Yes, they binned the other 11 principles ?

[rametindallas]

Doesn't the country have a PM who described himself as a democratic soldier but sees democracy as a trap ?

Is what he is saying worse that Thaksin saying, "Democracy is not my goal"?

Thaksin wanted to be like his buddy, the thug, Hun Sen, and did everything possible to become 'President for Life' of Thailand.

General Prayut is doing everything possible to bury the influence of Thaksin and to set up conditions in Thailand where democracy, if not thrive, at least can grow. That is my opinion.

And some asked if I wore a Tin Foil hat?

I don't know what kind of hats you wear (nor do I care) but your response to my post makes absolutely no sense except maybe in your own mind. It seems like a dark place so I won't go there.

[Fat Haggis]

You mean he wants HIS version of democracy to grow.

[JAG]

Democracy is more than polls. True, but they are the fundamental building blocks of democracy. And when you are complicit in preventing them, and overthrow the government which resulted from a poll, and was offering itself up to another poll, then you are turning your back on democracy and walking away from it, no matter that you claim to be a "democratic soldier"!

[lewy67]

The military have never let democracy evolve. Justice and power at the end of the barrel of a gun is the only thing that Prayuth and his lackeys care about or understand. He knows zero about democracy. The democratic will of the Thai people runs counter to what the military and elite desire. Therefore no democracy or justice for Thailand unless the military some how have the guns turned on them.

[lostoday]

That word might be in a maths test, but, it isn't in the quoted article. Do you mean Factionalism?

Yes. My spell checker has a mind of it's own some days.

Factionalism. Not that anyone will actually look it up but it is fascinating.

[boomerangutang]

Instead of haughty generalized benign words, here are some items which Thais may embrace within the next 50 years, which pertain to democracy - more specifically: the election process:

>>> televised debates - with each candidate having to think and speak on their own, without teleprompter, notes, or aides whispering in their ears.

>>> more on debates: Candidates can say what they want, with no threats or worries re; defamation of character lawsuits.

>>> candidates would not have to be members of established parties.

>>> Candidates don't have to have a college degree. Anyone familiar with Thailand's educational system knows a college or U degree means little in any real sense. Cheating is allowed and common. Attendance; my pen rai. Innovative or creative thinking?: fogedabowdit. Challenging a teacher if it appears the teacher is wrong?: No way, Jose.

[than]

'Democracy is more than polls'

That all PTP politician forget, for them election is like a lottery "I win, I make what I do and I not listen People...."

[smedly]

Great article and the best publication I have seen since the coup and he is 100% exactly right.......well said Pryuth Chan (O) Cha and you have nailed it, this is exactly why democracy has not worked here, the people using the word have no clue what it actually means - as I have said many times it is much more than an election, education is key to getting this message across.

The simplistic view in the past has been - we won the election so we can do what we want, the people that voted for them have a similar belief. When a Thai uses the word democracy I gaze with amusement and have a brief thought about the last 30 odd years of Thailands democracy and what a success it has been.

[smedly]

The military have never let democracy evolve. Justice and power at the end of the barrel of a gun is the only thing that Prayuth and his lackeys care about or understand. He knows zero about democracy. The democratic will of the Thai people runs counter to what the military and elite desire. Therefore no democracy or justice for Thailand unless the military some how have the guns turned on them.

no they have generally stepped in when it has all gone bad and last year is a fine example - new rules to come

[Fat Haggis]

The military have never let democracy evolve. Justice and power at the end of the barrel of a gun is the only thing that Prayuth and his lackeys care about or understand. He knows zero about democracy. The democratic will of the Thai people runs counter to what the military and elite desire. Therefore no democracy or justice for Thailand unless the military some how have the guns turned on them.

no they have generally stepped in when it has all gone bad and last year is a fine example - new rules to come

From the mist undemocratic organisation within Thailand?

Seriously since when have you ever known ANY military organisation outwith Spec Ops teams where anything other than autocracy was allowed to be practiced?

[lostoday]

Great article and the best publication I have seen since the coup and he is 100% exactly right.......well said Pryuth Chan (O) Cha and you have nailed it, this is exactly why democracy has not worked here, the people using the word have no clue what it actually means - as I have said many times it is much more than an election, education is key to getting this message across.

The simplistic view in the past has been - we won the election so we can do what we want, the people that voted for them have a similar belief. When a Thai uses the word democracy I gaze with amusement and have a brief thought about the last 30 odd years of Thailands democracy and what a success it has been.

Democracy by definition is government elected by the people. Good or bad; right or wrong; democracy means government elected by the people. Sorry you nor anyone else can not change the definition. You sound foolish trying and are making yourself the laughing stock of Thai Visa.

[Fat Haggis]

'Democracy is more than polls'

That all PTP politician forget, for them election is like a lottery "I win, I make what I do and I not listen People...."

Sounds exactly what the current Regime are also practicing and "enforcing" ?

[Plutojames88]

Doesn't the country have a PM who described himself as a democratic soldier but sees democracy as a trap ?

Is what he is saying worse that Thaksin saying, "Democracy is not my goal"?

Thaksin wanted to be like his buddy, the thug, Hun Sen, and did everything possible to become 'President for Life' of Thailand.

General Prayut is doing everything possible to bury the influence of Thaksin and to set up conditions in Thailand where democracy, if not thrive, at least can grow. That is my opinion.

And some asked if I wore a Tin Foil hat?

I don't know what kind of hats you wear (nor do I care) but your response to my post makes absolutely no sense except maybe in your own mind. It seems like a dark place so I won't go there.

Let me clarify ( for you) in a prior post on this thread someone asked if I wore a Tin Foul Hat.?

And I was merely pointing out your opinion on the General trying to make democracy grow , is more befitting of way out stuff.

But if you see little dark hidden messages of boogie men in my reply I can only say sorry.

It was not that dark .

Nor really hard to fathom .

Your maybe just self absorbed in the pandering debate to see the humour.?

[smedly]

Great article and the best publication I have seen since the coup and he is 100% exactly right.......well said Pryuth Chan (O) Cha and you have nailed it, this is exactly why democracy has not worked here, the people using the word have no clue what it actually means - as I have said many times it is much more than an election, education is key to getting this message across.

The simplistic view in the past has been - we won the election so we can do what we want, the people that voted for them have a similar belief. When a Thai uses the word democracy I gaze with amusement and have a brief thought about the last 30 odd years of Thailands democracy and what a success it has been.

Democracy by definition is government elected by the people. Good or bad; right or wrong; democracy means government elected by the people. Sorry you nor anyone else can not change the definition. You sound foolish trying and are making yourself the laughing stock of Thai Visa.

looks like you missed some education yourself - too many lost days at school lol

Get yourself some help and stay off the yogurt

[lostoday]

Great article and the best publication I have seen since the coup and he is 100% exactly right.......well said Pryuth Chan (O) Cha and you have nailed it, this is exactly why democracy has not worked here, the people using the word have no clue what it actually means - as I have said many times it is much more than an election, education is key to getting this message across.

The simplistic view in the past has been - we won the election so we can do what we want, the people that voted for them have a similar belief. When a Thai uses the word democracy I gaze with amusement and have a brief thought about the last 30 odd years of Thailands democracy and what a success it has been.

Democracy by definition is government elected by the people. Good or bad; right or wrong; democracy means government elected by the people. Sorry you nor anyone else can not change the definition. You sound foolish trying and are making yourself the laughing stock of Thai Visa.

looks like you missed some education yourself - too many lost days at school lol

Get yourself some help and stay off the yogurt

Flame. Feel free to offer another definition of Democracy that does not include elections. If not you are offering yourself up for ridicule and derision. Democracy is studied in grade 6 (11 years old) in the West. Surely you can do at least as good as an 11 year old?

[Fat Haggis]

You keep saying you not see Western types of democracy do these things and then you cite Mugabe and ZANU-PF which If I'm not mistaken are not western either, was there a point you were trying to make?

This isn't about the past, it's about the future Thaksin is he past, but for as long as people like you and the other Kool aid drinkers keep bringing his name into almost every topic he's never going to be in the past is he?

He's like the ex girlfriend you despise so much you compare your current girlfriend to them, let me know how well that works when your current woman gets fed up with you bringing your ex into every conversation ?

[smedly]

Great article and the best publication I have seen since the coup and he is 100% exactly right.......well said Pryuth Chan (O) Cha and you have nailed it, this is exactly why democracy has not worked here, the people using the word have no clue what it actually means - as I have said many times it is much more than an election, education is key to getting this message across.

The simplistic view in the past has been - we won the election so we can do what we want, the people that voted for them have a similar belief. When a Thai uses the word democracy I gaze with amusement and have a brief thought about the last 30 odd years of Thailands democracy and what a success it has been.

Democracy by definition is government elected by the people. Good or bad; right or wrong; democracy means government elected by the people. Sorry you nor anyone else can not change the definition. You sound foolish trying and are making yourself the laughing stock of Thai Visa.

looks like you missed some education yourself - too many lost days at school lol

Get yourself some help and stay off the yogurt

Flame. Feel free to offer another definition of Democracy that does not include elections. If not you are offering yourself up for ridicule and derision. Democracy is studied in grade 6 (11 years old) in the West. Surely you can do at least as good as an 11 year old?

where have I ever stated that democracy doesn't or should not include elections - seriously

my last conversation with you as it is really is a waste of time, if you don't get it I'm not going to tell you what it is or explain it, I suggest you read the OP on this thread and try and understand what it is saying although I don't hold much confidence in your ability to do that

now run along and find somewhere else to troll

and as for flame - you took this conversation personal, something I usually resist and leave it up to the admins to sort out

[lostoday]

looks like you missed some education yourself - too many lost days at school lol

Get yourself some help and stay off the yogurt

Flame. Feel free to offer another definition of Democracy that does not include elections. If not you are offering yourself up for ridicule and derision. Democracy is studied in grade 6 (11 years old) in the West. Surely you can do at least as good as an 11 year old?

where have I ever stated that democracy doesn't or should not include elections - seriously

my last conversation with you as it is really is a waste of time, if you don't get it I'm not going to tell you what it is or explain it, I suggest you read the OP on this thread and try and understand what it is saying although I don't hold much confidence in your ability to do that

now run along and find somewhere else to troll

and as for flame - you took this conversation personal, something I usually resist and leave it up to the admins to sort out

You wrote, Where have I ever stated that democracy doesn't or should not include elections"

You wrote, "as I have said many times it is much more than an election, education is key to getting this message across."

I wrote "Democracy can not exist without elections. Democracy is government by elections." This is taught in most countries starting in about the 6th grade.

Democracy is not much more than an election. Democracy is by definition government by election.

[Fat Haggis]

Than

If you vote for us we will reduce income tax by 1%

That sir is vote buying or a "populist policy"

Tell me what was so great about living in Thailand before the Shiniwatra era for frangs such as yourself?

I presume that there were no coups at all post Shiniwatra as life was peachy perfect ?

Oh silly me, I forgot my sarcasm filter is still set on max these days ?

[AGareth2]

elections are the keystones of democracy

[smedly]

You keep saying you not see Western types of democracy do these things and then you cite Mugabe and ZANU-PF which If I'm not mistaken are not western either, was there a point you were trying to make?

This isn't about the past, it's about the future Thaksin is he past, but for as long as people like you and the other Kool aid drinkers keep bringing his name into almost every topic he's never going to be in the past is he?

He's like the ex girlfriend you despise so much you compare your current girlfriend to them, let me know how well that works when your current woman gets fed up with you bringing your ex into every conversation ?

very good point lol - the problem is most ex girlfriends don't keep showing up and stalking you and interfering in your life

Thaksin is like a real bad in-growing hair - a friend of mine had one on his rear and after 20 ops and various other treatments lost the fight and now uses a bag to (deleted) in

Don't underestimate this man, I said on here several years ago that if he doesn't get what he wants he will destroy Thailand instead - he very nearly did last year.

Some say a civil war is what is needed here, I don't agree, it needs a hero who can rescue this country and put it on a path for all of the people (said it before) - is the current PM the man ? only time will tell but I like what I see so far.

[KarenBravo]

Some say a civil war is what is needed here, I don't agree, it needs a hero who can rescue this country and put it on a path for all of the people (said it before) - is the current PM the man ? only time will tell but I like what I see so far.

Pretty obvious he has the same disdain for the people of the north and north-east as the cabal he represents.

Therefore, it is clear that he is not the Thai equivalent of King Arthur.......

[smedly]

elections are the keystones of democracy

yes as much as a motor is needed in a car to move, you also need a gearbox wheels and all the rest to be of any functional use

[KarenBravo]

elections are the keystones of democracy

yes as much as a motor is needed in a car to move, you also need a gearbox wheels and all the rest to be of any functional use

False analogy.

[djjamie]

I moved to Thailand with my parents in 2005. I have lived here or at least been based here for 3380 days. In the 3380 days I have lived here I have witnessed "true democracy" in action for 3 days. They were on the 6th of February, 2005, the 23rd of December, 2007 and the 3rd of July, 2011. I was glad to see the process followed and was happy the party that the majority wanted to win actually win it. Sadly for 3377 days I have seen the opposite of democracy.

When people understand that elections allow the winning party to practice democracy after the ballot box instead of elections giving them carte blanche to abuse the democratic process until the next election then democracy will continue to only be witnessed 1 day every 4 years or so.

Elections are but one tiny important part of a multi faceted complex set of "pillars" if you will that is called democracy. Look above at the comments where some still only harp on about elections as if it is the only principle there is. Ironically those same people will denounce and ignore election results if the party they have invested time in defending on this forum do not win. We have seen it before with the 2007 referendum results. We are starting to see it on this forum with excuses being made if the PTP don't win the next election. All polls that have not gone the PTP way pre and post coup have been brushed off and excuses made. These anti democrats have the mindset of democracy when it suits their agenda and conspiracy when it doesn't. It is those same people that say "It is a shame they didn't burn all of Bangkok down" or "I don't support the killing of kids, but". TVF members have said this and you can guarantee they are not DEM supporters.

Some are perplexed that Prayut is preaching democracy when he came into power off the back of a coup. The UDD supporters criticize Prayut's government by highlighting all the principles of democracy that they do not adhere too. Ironically the very same principles the UDD ignore when referring to the shin governments because the UDD supporters only harp on about elections as that is the only one the PTP / UDD adhere too. Well Prayut has never ever said he is democratic, who has never hidden behind a facade of democracy, has never called his government a democratically elected one, but has witnessed this democratic process poke it's head through the fabric of corruption, political killings and undemocratic rule more than the 3 times I did and recognized it was a self perpetuating process that never moved Thailand forward constructively and only crippled it.

The PTP never recognized any fault with democracy because they were the ones abusing it for personal gain. They didn't want the system to change. They wanted the keep the farmers poor and that carrot just out of reach to continue to win elections. That is not moving a country forward. It is making a few select people incredibly rich.

Prauyt recognized democracy had failed and is doing something about it and for that fact alone it makes him more democratic than the PTP who were run by an unelected criminal leader would ever dream of.

[JAG]

Some say a civil war is what is needed here, I don't agree, it needs a hero who can rescue this country and put it on a path for all of the people (said it before) - is the current PM the man ? only time will tell but I like what I see so far.

Pretty obvious he has the same disdain for the people of the north and north-east as the cabal he represents.

Therefore, it is clear that he is not the Thai equivalent of King Arthur.......

Although possibly a similar approach to respecting the views of the majority as a more recent King Arthur - Arthur Scargill!

[brewsterbudgen]

I moved to Thailand with my parents in 2005. I have lived here or at least been based here for 3380 days. In the 3380 days I have lived here I have witnessed "true democracy" in action for 3 days. They were on the 6th of February, 2005, the 23rd of December, 2007 and the 3rd of July, 2011. I was glad to see the process followed and was happy the party that the majority wanted to win actually win it. Sadly for 3377 days I have seen the opposite of democracy.

When people understand that elections allow the winning party to practice democracy after the ballot box instead of elections giving them carte blanche to abuse the democratic process until the next election then democracy will continue to only be witnessed 1 day every 4 years or so.

Elections are but one tiny important part of a multi faceted complex set of "pillars" if you will that is called democracy. Look above at the comments where some still only harp on about elections as if it is the only principle there is. Ironically those same people will denounce and ignore election results if the party they have invested time in defending on this forum do not win. We have seen it before with the 2007 referendum results. We are starting to see it on this forum with excuses being made if the PTP don't win the next election. All polls that have not gone the PTP way pre and post coup have been brushed off and excuses made. These anti democrats have the mindset of democracy when it suits their agenda and conspiracy when it doesn't.

Some are perplexed that Prayut is preaching democracy when he came into power off the back of a coup. The UDD supporters criticize Prayut's government by highlighting all the principles of democracy that they do not adhere too. Ironically the very same principles the UDD ignore when referring to the shin governments because the UDD supporters only harp on about elections as that is the only one the PTP / UDD adhere too. Well Prayut has never ever said he is democratic, who has never hidden behind a facade of democracy, has never called his government a democratically elected one, but has witnessed this democratic process poke it's head through the fabric of corruption, political killings and undemocratic rule more than the 3 times I did and recognized it was a self perpetuating process that never moved Thailand forward constructively and only crippled it.

The PTP never recognized any fault with democracy because they were the ones abusing it for personal gain. They didn't want the system to change. They wanted the keep the farmers poor and that carrot just out of reach to continue to win elections. That is not moving a country forward. It is making a few select people incredibly rich.

Prauyt recognized democracy had failed and is doing something about it and for that fact alone it makes him more democratic than the PTP who were run by an unelected criminal leader would ever dream of.

Just because your tediously biased democracy posts are

long and verbose doesn't make them any less biased.