People think that foreigners are not allowed to own houses here. Why?

[AlQaholic]

I have to agree, the topic is redundant. However, everybody, and I do mean everybody, has overlooked the one aspect that DOES allow farangs to legally own land.

Any farang that is working in Thailand, has a Thai spouse or has children born in Thailand and has been living in Thailand for 5 or more years can become a Thai citizen, and in the many cases retain their citizenship from their home country. As a Thai citizen that farang CAN legally own land 100%, CAN legally set up a Thai business without the need for 51% Thai partnership, and so on. In short, AS A THAI CITIZEN YOU WILL HAVE EXACTLY THE SAME LEGAL RIGHTS AS NATIVE BORN THAIS. I have had this confirmed by a Thai legal firm and The Thai Immigration Dept. This information is also readily available on the internet. Also refer to this link: https://www.justlanded.com/english/Thailand/Thailand-Guide/Visas-Permits/Thai-Citizenship

I'm really amazed that nobody has ever made mention of this before. Could it be that nobody has ever thought about researching what is involved in taking out Thai Citizenship? It would seem not. This would solve ALL the problems of the farangs on TV who consistently whinge and whine about paying taxes etc in in Thailand and having no rights, especially the ones with Thai wives and children born in Thailand. The answer is quite simple really, TAKE OUT THAI CITIZENSHIP, and all the issues that you all consistently complain about will go away.

Well, finally after all the interviews and paperwork and signatures from different government institution, of which you will probably do the whole thing over and over again because the turnover of officials are high, and waiting times tend to be years rather than months....finally when everything is complete.....the last thing before you can become a Thai citizen is the personal signature of the King himself.....

[Suradit69]

I agree there is a lot of confusion over foreigners being able to own houses in Thailand.

As I said in the poll thread earlier, foreigners can own any property in Thailand 100% in their name. They just can't legally own the land it sits on.

You can dress it up however you want, but a lease isn't ownership - it's a lease.

If you're hell bent on buying a property, setting up a usufruct on the land plot is perhaps a better way to go, but this still isn't ownership.

I think Thailand's existing laws on foreigners owning land were probably established to stop wealthy foreign individuals and/or corporations buying up masses of land and leaving Thais with nothing. You can't really blame them for wanting to protect their land - don't forget how nationalistic Thais are.

Of course the results of this means that the country misses out on huge investment.

Interestingly, did you see that Vietnam is now offering 100 year leases to foreigners - http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/825366-foreigners-can-own-houses-for-100-years-in-vietnam/

"Of course the results of this means that the country misses out on huge investment."

Of course that would mean missing out on the price of property being driven out of the reach of the locals and the sort of property speculation that nearly brought down several farang economies a few years ago.

"don't forget how nationalistic Thais are."

Another farang special view of history. In the not too distant past nationalism contributed to the deaths of millions throughout Europe and Asia. Nationalism still contributes to the ongoing mess in Europe, the likelihood of another referendum in Scotland, the attempts to resurrect a sense of empire on the part of Vladamir Putin, the never ending mess in Middle East ... but of course the only real nationalism is here in Thailand where the country has laws attempting to preserves its national identity without waging war on everyone else in the neighborhood. Farang-think at its best. A constipated, narrow view of life where all the planets revolve around Freddie Farang.

[Jockey]

I have lived here 12 years. In that time I bought a house by creating a Thai company. I bought for about 5 million baht and sold for 9 million a couple of years later. I was lucky I sold during a property "frenzy". I have similarly bought land and sold at profit / loss using the same type of company structure. I also know many people who have bought AND sold using the same method. The great thing about selling a house that is owned by a company is that you only need to sell / transfer the shares of the company which negates the need to visit the land office.

That said, buying land using a shell company is a risk which I think many are willing to take. Many others, (obviously some of the posters on here), think that the risk is not worth taking. In my years living here I have read many articles on this forum and through other media with shock headlines "LAND OFFICE TO CLAMP DOWN ON LAND OWNERSHIP OF THAI COMPANIES" but the big clamp down never seems to materialize. That is not to say there won't be a massive purge of this type of ownership in the future, but many who have "the company" ownership feel that should the massive purge start happening, they will have time to change the ownership structure of the land by selling it to a trustworthy Thai who then leases the land back to them.

Interestingly, I know of a person who owns a legal office who has assisted foreigners setting up thousands of companies with his and his co-workers owning at least 51% of these companies. The foreigners owning the remaining 49% or less. The foreigner thinks he has control of the company because an "imaginary" meeting takes place where it is recorded that the "shareholders" have "voted" to give the foreigner 51% or more of the voting rights within the company. Now the foreigner feels secure he has control of the company and his shares can be passed on to his heirs.

Imagine what might happen when that said foreigner dies. Even if the heirs manage to have the shares of the company transferred into their names, I am not sure the voting rights of the deceased foreigner will also be automatically transferred into their name. This effectively means the guy from the legal office and his co-workers own 51% or more of the company and have the majority of voting rights. What is to stop them selling the land & house at a fraction of what its worth to friends and family, the heirs receiving 49% or less of the paltry amount of the land sale? If you effectively owned thousands of companies would you be tempted to become mega rich by legal means such as this. Of course if the said person who owns the legal office and has his name on thousands of companies did not have the stomach to do such a dastardly deed, but were to sell his shares to some "big wig" politician or "police chief" we are talking the potential billions of Thai Baht being transferred into Thai names (almost) perfectly legally. Given that obvious scenario must have crossed certain people in high places minds, and given the huge amount of rewards on offer to implement such a scenario, I feel the temptation may be too great and confiscation of property after the death of each foreigner owning property through a company structure will become the norm.

There are many other possible interesting scenarios, which makes me feel owning land though a company is kind of like playing a game of pass the parcel time bomb. I also think a lot of houses will come on to the market at knock down prices the more "owners" are aware their property is not inheritable.

My advice to anyone who owns property through a company is to review the shareholders of your company. It used to be you needed at least 4 or 5 Thai nationals in your company, but that changed a couple of years ago. Now you only need 2 Thais and one foreigner. Arrange to transfer the Thai-owned shares of your company into the names of two Thais you can trust and are well known to you. Keep all records of your company in your own hands and get all company documents translated into your native language.

Edited May 19, 2015 by Jockey

[flyingdoc]

Transam is so right !

[Varangkul]

"Then it doesn't matter who the other two people are in your company or what percentage of stock they own"

Regardless of their management/voting rights, other people own 51% of your company and it's assets. When you die and your will leaves your company to someone other than these shareholders, you are only bequething YOUR 49% arn't you.? Your will cannot give your heirs this 51% as YOU don't own it.

If you have several companies then surely you are willing the 51% in each company to these anonymous shareholders?

Americans can own 100%.

So? We are talking about Thailand, not Americans - by the way, which Americans? Brazilian? Peruvian? Chileans?

[DLang]

Correct me if I am wrong.. I recall something about foreigners who have 1 million US on deposit in a Thai bank can own 1 rai of land.

Correct.

There is no problem with foreigners owning land in Thailand, up to one rai. They just need to invest 40m baht in Thailand.

[johnnytuc]

Hugh 2121, I think you are wrong, even at the end of lease you do own the house (though you might have a big problem flogging it) I owned my house here on a 30 +30 lease I sold it last year best thing I ever did. If everything goes smoothly its no different than a lease in the west, trouble is Thais think that you should pay the increase in the land value I did pay landowner a few K to keep things running smoothly, but that was a lot cheaper than if I had done what everybody said at the beginning to make it easy put it in your GF name, if I had done that and how my lovely lady would have liked that, I would now be sitting on the steps of a 7/11 with a tinny in my hand.....instead I have a nice rented apartment with pool.... my advise for what its worth is just don't buy in Thailand.

[stgrhe]

Just bought a house in Samui. No problems at all. Set up a Thai company and register it all in that name. Easy.

If that company owns land in Thailand you and the other chairholders have commited a crime!

[DLang]

The rules for owning a house are not straightforward, you have to lease the land first and then get a building permit from the local authority in your own name.

The point is, why bother owning a house if the land is leased. When the lease expires the owner of the land can destroy the house... what sort of ownership is that.

It's incredibly easy for foreigners in Thailand to buy a house, but forget about real ownership.

You obviously don't think outside the box.

You are thinking of Western dwellings. Concreted into the ground.

Think more like:

The companies have moveable options, where they can dismantle, move and rebuild at another plot of land, should you wish.

There are also concrete modular house, for those who can't leave the West behind.

[Johnny S]

"People think that foreigners are not allowed to own houses here. Why?"" ..... No doubt we have a realtor here and he now realize that the market for houses are on a stand still ....

Leasing land is a no go - full of scam ... dont do it !

Just rent, dont buy with all their rules - they dont want foreign Investment so they dont get any ...

[thaibeachlovers]

Why, in the name of the deity, would anyone buy a house that can have an all night karaoke or a rock grinding mill set up next door, and TiT so can't do anything about it.

In LOS, renting is the only sane thing to do, IMO.

[lostoday]

"Then it doesn't matter who the other two people are in your company or what percentage of stock they own"

Regardless of their management/voting rights, other people own 51% of your company and it's assets. When you die and your will leaves your company to someone other than these shareholders, you are only bequething YOUR 49% arn't you.? Your will cannot give your heirs this 51% as YOU don't own it.

If you have several companies then surely you are willing the 51% in each company to these anonymous shareholders?

Americans can own 100%.

So? We are talking about Thailand, not Americans - by the way, which Americans? Brazilian? Peruvian? Chileans?

Americans can own 100% of company in Thailand. Treaty of Amity.

[DLang]

There are numerous options for houses that can be dismantled and moved in the region.

Some don't even have to be dismantled.

I mean, think outside the box people.

[GarryP]

I have to agree, the topic is redundant. However, everybody, and I do mean everybody, has overlooked the one aspect that DOES allow farangs to legally own land.

Any farang that is working in Thailand, has a Thai spouse or has children born in Thailand and has been living in Thailand for 5 or more years can become a Thai citizen, and in the many cases retain their citizenship from their home country. As a Thai citizen that farang CAN legally own land 100%, CAN legally set up a Thai business without the need for 51% Thai partnership, and so on. In short, AS A THAI CITIZEN YOU WILL HAVE EXACTLY THE SAME LEGAL RIGHTS AS NATIVE BORN THAIS. I have had this confirmed by a Thai legal firm and The Thai Immigration Dept. This information is also readily available on the internet. Also refer to this link: https://www.justlanded.com/english/Thailand/Thailand-Guide/Visas-Permits/Thai-Citizenship

I'm really amazed that nobody has ever made mention of this before. Could it be that nobody has ever thought about researching what is involved in taking out Thai Citizenship? It would seem not. This would solve ALL the problems of the farangs on TV who consistently whinge and whine about paying taxes etc in in Thailand and having no rights, especially the ones with Thai wives and children born in Thailand. The answer is quite simple really, TAKE OUT THAI CITIZENSHIP, and all the issues that you all consistently complain about will go away.

Well, finally after all the interviews and paperwork and signatures from different government institution, of which you will probably do the whole thing over and over again because the turnover of officials are high, and waiting times tend to be years rather than months....finally when everything is complete.....the last thing before you can become a Thai citizen is the personal signature of the King himself.....

I would guess that the vast majority of posters on this site would not even qualify. Retirees certainly don't.

[Anthony5]

"Then it doesn't matter who the other two people are in your company or what percentage of stock they own"

Regardless of their management/voting rights, other people own 51% of your company and it's assets. When you die and your will leaves your company to someone other than these shareholders, you are only bequething YOUR 49% arn't you.? Your will cannot give your heirs this 51% as YOU don't own it.

If you have several companies then surely you are willing the 51% in each company to these anonymous shareholders?

Americans can own 100%.

So? We are talking about Thailand, not Americans - by the way, which Americans? Brazilian? Peruvian? Chileans?

Americans can own 100% of company in Thailand. Treaty of Amity.

But that company can't own land.

[thaibeachlovers]

I agree there is a lot of confusion over foreigners being able to own houses in Thailand.

As I said in the poll thread earlier, foreigners can own any property in Thailand 100% in their name. They just can't legally own the land it sits on.

You can dress it up however you want, but a lease isn't ownership - it's a lease.

If you're hell bent on buying a property, setting up a usufruct on the land plot is perhaps a better way to go, but this still isn't ownership.

I think Thailand's existing laws on foreigners owning land were probably established to stop wealthy foreign individuals and/or corporations buying up masses of land and leaving Thais with nothing. You can't really blame them for wanting to protect their land - don't forget how nationalistic Thais are.

Of course the results of this means that the country misses out on huge investment.

Interestingly, did you see that Vietnam is now offering 100 year leases to foreigners - http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/825366-foreigners-can-own-houses-for-100-years-in-vietnam/

"Of course the results of this means that the country misses out on huge investment."

Of course that would mean missing out on the price of property being driven out of the reach of the locals and the sort of property speculation that nearly brought down several farang economies a few years ago.

"don't forget how nationalistic Thais are."

Another farang special view of history. In the not too distant past nationalism contributed to the deaths of millions throughout Europe and Asia. Nationalism still contributes to the ongoing mess in Europe, the likelihood of another referendum in Scotland, the attempts to resurrect a sense of empire on the part of Vladamir Putin, the never ending mess in Middle East ... but of course the only real nationalism is here in Thailand where the country has laws attempting to preserves its national identity without waging war on everyone else in the neighborhood. Farang-think at its best. A constipated, narrow view of life where all the planets revolve around Freddie Farang.

It's amazing how many farangs think everything is perfect in their own countries, while seeing only bad in Thailand. I fail to understand why they want to live here.

[Anthony5]

There are numerous options for houses that can be dismantled and moved in the region.

Some don't even have to be dismantled.

I mean, think outside the box people.

I mean, I think you're trolling now.

[DLang]

It's a misunderstanding about the definition of "owning a house," much like the erroneous labeling of a "retirement visa."

To all but the most pedantic twits, "owning a house" includes the property on which the building rests. That is NOT the case in Thailand.

Correct.

There is a massive growth in companies specializing in modular and knock-down houses (unfortunate name).

They have annual shows in places like Impact.

They have options of moving the house at a latter date, should you wish.

There are also concrete pre-fab houses,

[Tchooptip]

Just bought a house in Samui. No problems at all. Set up a Thai company and register it all in that name. Easy.

Sometimes they check on companies that don't have any turn over. Setting up a company with the sole purpose to cheat the land laws is illegal.

I have tried to explained that to a couple of retired French people who thought they were so clever with their new company, also only to own a house in Samui. It's easy they told me, I answered that setting up a company with the purpose of cheating the land laws was not 100% legal, and so they could be checked if the company has no activity at all, but they laughed at me... and I did not made new friends

[Anon999]

Who cares about the structure? It's alllllllllll about that LAND.

Well if you're a Brit you do because the HMRC have world-wide rights to your assets for tax purposes when you eventually 'kick the bucket'! Therefore the value of the house is included in the total amount of your estate and can drastically effect the tax payable.

[DLang]

Who cares about the structure? It's alllllllllll about that LAND.

Well if you're a Brit you do because the HMRC have world-wide rights to your assets for tax purposes when you eventually 'kick the bucket'! Therefore the value of the house is included in the total amount of your estate and can drastically effect the tax payable.

Some people don't really understand about property ownership.

[Time Traveller]

I agree there is a lot of confusion over foreigners being able to own houses in Thailand.

There is no confusion. But most people don't care to much for a house with no where to put it.

[elgordo38]

I agree there is a lot of confusion over foreigners being able to own houses in Thailand.

As I said in the poll thread earlier, foreigners can own any property in Thailand 100% in their name. They just can't legally own the land it sits on.

You can dress it up however you want, but a lease isn't ownership - it's a lease.

If you're hell bent on buying a property, setting up a usufruct on the land plot is perhaps a better way to go, but this still isn't ownership.

I think Thailand's existing laws on foreigners owning land were probably established to stop wealthy foreign individuals and/or corporations buying up masses of land and leaving Thais with nothing. You can't really blame them for wanting to protect their land - don't forget how nationalistic Thais are.

Of course the results of this means that the country misses out on huge investment.

Interestingly, did you see that Vietnam is now offering 100 year leases to foreigners - http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/825366-foreigners-can-own-houses-for-100-years-in-vietnam/

I think Thailand's existing laws on foreigners owning land were probably established to stop wealthy foreign individuals and/or corporations buying up masses of land and leaving Thais with nothing. You can't really blame them for wanting to protect their land - don't forget how nationalistic Thais are.

Love this quote. Forget about foreign individuals, large corporations coming in and buying up masses of land. 10% of the rich Thais already own about 90% of the land. The price now is to high for the average Thai to pay. The rich will continue to gobble up land here till they own it all. Thailand is not the only country where this is happening. Its all part of the new world order where the rich will own it all and we will be peasants working for them. History does repeat itself.

[louse1953]

Didn't realise this forum was for big mouth bitches

Boy...are you going to have a short stay on this forum.....stop being ignorant. Many of the reply posts are trying to help you understand the reality of OWNING a house here....

You say you bought and own a house in Thailand....as long as you believe that you will be happy with yourself...go for it.

Down the track...if you are still on this forum....you will most likely be yet another one asking for advice what to do when whoevers name it is in, takes it away from you......

Only if your stupid enough to let them.

[DLang]

Didn't realise this forum was for big mouth bitches

Boy...are you going to have a short stay on this forum.....stop being ignorant. Many of the reply posts are trying to help you understand the reality of OWNING a house here....

You say you bought and own a house in Thailand....as long as you believe that you will be happy with yourself...go for it.

Down the track...if you are still on this forum....you will most likely be yet another one asking for advice what to do when whoevers name it is in, takes it away from you......

Only if your stupid enough to let them.

[impulse]

3 rules I learned early on in Asia:

1) Just 'cause someone said it happened that way, doesn't mean it did.

2) Just 'cause someone else got away with it, doesn't mean I can, or will.

3) Just 'cause I did it last year, doesn't mean I can get away with it again.

I'm sure lots of foreigners are sitting on land they "bought" through some mechanism or another. And I'm sure a lot of them have gone full cycle, buying, building, selling and profiting.

But that doesn't mean I can get away with it, where I live and with my contacts.

[joshstiles]

duuuhhhh...whats the point of owning the house if you cant own the land

they should make a breakfast cereal that contains brain stem cells

[Naam]

No point technically owning the house for 30 years. At the end of the 30 year lease on the land, it reverts to the owner along with everything on it including your house which is no longer yours. May as well just lease the house and land for 30 years as the end result is the same.

neither usufruct nor superficies are limited to 30 years.

[krisb]

I agree there is a lot of confusion over foreigners being able to own houses in Thailand.

As I said in the poll thread earlier, foreigners can own any property in Thailand 100% in their name. They just can't legally own the land it sits on.

You can dress it up however you want, but a lease isn't ownership - it's a lease.

If you're hell bent on buying a property, setting up a usufruct on the land plot is perhaps a better way to go, but this still isn't ownership.

I think Thailand's existing laws on foreigners owning land were probably established to stop wealthy foreign individuals and/or corporations buying up masses of land and leaving Thais with nothing. You can't really blame them for wanting to protect their land - don't forget how nationalistic Thais are.

Of course the results of this means that the country misses out on huge investment.

Interestingly, did you see that Vietnam is now offering 100 year leases to foreigners - http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/825366-foreigners-can-own-houses-for-100-years-in-vietnam/

Yep!...Vietnam is flying ahead in leaps and bounds now...

Here!...the above posts are correct....YOU can own the house...but not the land it sits on...PERIOD !! To lease in Thailand(land) would be a minefield.

Remind me to have a chat about Vietnam soon mate.

[Time Traveller]

Actually foreigners CAN own house and 1 rai of land in Thailand. Just invest 40 million baht then with ministerial approval, it's yours. It's in the law. Legal foreign ownership of Thai land.

So stop complaining. You'd be better off spending the time working and earning.