Thaksin says Prayut government's performance unimpressive yet

[waitforusalso]

Seems hard to believe so many here can't see the main factor behind this whole issue & try to pin it on corruption. As we all know, corruption is endemic in Thailand & infiltrates every institution and at every level of society. One of the most corrupt and bloated institutions in the country is the army, but is the General trying to fix that? His attempts to deal with corruption are simply a one-sided political purge, as everyone at an arms-length can see. Thaksin Shinawatra & every other rich person in Thailand became that way playing by the same rules & on the same playing field. How you can then turn around & accuse only a very select few for doing so is dumbfounding. Thaksin's fault was not corruption or ill-gained wealth, as that was a guilt shared by millions of others including the General's own family, it was becoming too popular. He threatened the pillars of Thai society, and that was unacceptable to those who had & continue to gain from holding the reigns of power. Thaksin had to be dealt with and that has been continuing for 10 years now.

To summarise "Little Johnny did it too!" Infantile argument that we should ignore criminality because there's a lot of it about. The way to stop corruption is to START prosecuting it, even with someone who is "too popular".

So if the General committed the coup for this reason why isn't he going after corruption in the army?

To state that the rule of law must be applied equally & fairly is not an 'infantile argument'.

To state that it shouldn't be applied at all certainly is.

The unequal application of justice is the root cause of the past, present & future division in the country. Those like yourself claiming that a one-sided purge of your political opponents is a step in the right direction are sadly deluded.

[scorecard]

So, mr. paymaster, what progress did you, somchai, yingluck, chalerm etc., and trt, pt, udd et all make on the numerous fronts the general is now trying to work through?

Also mr. paymaster are you conveniently not recognizing that on many of these items it will take many years to make progress to eventually get a better picture and then years to lock the changes into place?

And mr. paymaster are you conveniently not recognizing that there will be major delays and slowdowns caused by those who will fight change and renewal on every front possible and for as long as possible.

Hmmm, maybe .... but before you point this out, come with some proof that this populist junta did make some progress , I doubt it, economy down, export down, tourism down, show me what and where it goes better now than under the former government ...

And your quite comfortable with the fact that under the paymasters rule:

- Corruption was massive and getting bigger.

- Interference with the police and the DSI had increased to the point where he controlled the police and the DSI.

- There was massive nepotism to reward the party faithful who were mainly unethical and incapable 'yes men'.

- There were unethical actions in parliament by his red / udd / pt mob to ram grossly unethical amnesty bills through parliament whilst the Thai people were asleep to cancel his conviction (and no it wasn't politically motivated) and to cancel the 15 or so charges against him not yet heard.

- And he / his 'yes men' were making gains to develop a dictatorship whereby his party could never be voted out?

- The media was scared to utter anything which even began to look like criticism, scared of being sued for massive amounts of money.

- And perhaps your indicating that none of the above matters as long as we have higher tourist numbers every year?

- And perhaps nice economic numbers but all aimed at the rich getting richer.

Yes it would be nice if the economy was still very healthy, but do you really expect that there will be no bumps whilst the general tries to get all

of these items fixed and implements reforms to try to get the country into a much more balanced picture.

Edited May 19, 2015 by scorecard

[tonbridgebrit]

The point is this, we've still got to see Thaksin and Abhisit competing in a general election. And once Thaksin is back in power, then, only then, will America and Europe accept that Thailand is a democracy. Who knows, maybe Abhisit can win an election, fine.

Yes, I know that a stack of people on ThaiVisa don't like Thaksin, yes, and it doesn't matter if some Thais want him back in charge. But, the longer Thailand is regarded as being not a democracy, the longer it is that the West will continue to drift away from Thailand. And more time for China to convert Thailand into a Chinese colony.

The ruling Thai elite, the vast bulk of them Chinese-Thais, these are Thailand's richest two or three per cent, they hate Thaksin.

But this ruling elite are also a bit concerned about Thailand drifting away from the West. These people are far more likely to send their children to universities in the West rather than to China. They're also more likely to buy real estate in places like London and America, rather than China. And here's the point. It's not in their interest for Thailand to drift away from the West, they want the West to recognise Thailand as a democracy.

As said earlier, everybody (the Chinese-Thai elite and the West) will only accept Thailand as a deomocracy once Thaksin and Abhisit are in a general election. That's why, Thaksin, love him or hate him, he's still got a role to play regarding Thailand's future. That's why the media still mentions him.

"competing in a general election. And once Thaksin is back in power, then, only then, will America and Europe accept that Thailand is a democracy."

You try very hard not to be pro Thaksin here I guess?

The word you are looking for is psycho-phant

ruble, I did actually write "competing in a general election. And once Thaksin is back in power, then, only then, will America and Europe accept that Thailand is a democracy. Who knows, maybe Abhisit can win an election, fine." !

Yes, that's what I wrote. Correct, the West has never said 'we will restore full diplomatic links once Thailand has got Thaksin back in charge'. The West has said that they will restore full diplomatic links once their are elections. Elections, this means Thaksin against Abhisit in an election. Okay fine, strictly speaking, Thaksin won't actually be in Thailand. Somebody in his family, or one of his staff, will be in Thailand instead. We all know that.

[tonbridgebrit]

trogers, skywalker69 and Tatsujin, do you guys really think I'm talking a load of rubbish ??

Yes.

Okay, do you accept that the West, right now, is drifting away from Thailand, and this is because the West reckons that Thailand is not a democracy ? Surely, with the posts from ThaiVisa here, (some of those posts from the Nation newspaper), we accept that the West is drifting away from Thailand ? Pro-Thaksinites and anti-Thaksinites accept it. It's just that the anti-Thaksinites feel that the West does not understand Thailand, they feel that the West is unable to see that Thaksin is a problem.

No, "Thailand" is pushing the "West" away (effectively), not the other way around, and they are replacing it (for all intents and purposes) with China (as Russia has self imploded). I don't see this as anything at all to do with Thaksin, anti or pro. To clarify, no one in the "west" understands Thailand, not even the Thai's.

Do we agree that the West won't accept Thailand is a democracy unless Thaksin and Abhisit are competing against each other in a general election ? Yes or no ? Do you guys reckon that Thailand can get back in with the West without a general election and return to democracy ?

No, I don't agree with that. Thaksin can't run for a start as Baerboxer mentioned, only a proxy for him (unless or until he gets pardoned by "someone" and whitewashed of all crimes retroactively - which is a distinct possibility if things go the way I think they will). There will be "general elections" at some point, and Thailand will get back in with the "west" when they are good and ready to do so. But it won't happen until the "west" stops telling Thailand what to do.

I wrote a bit of extra stuff about how Thailand's mega-rich are more likely to have their children educated in the West rather China. And I said that they're also more likely to have real estate in London and America rather than China. This is why the ruling elite don't actually want to see the West drifting away from Thailand. It's your choice to agree or disagree.

Sure, the mega-rich here on both/all sides will continue to buy up large parts of real estate all over the world, but that has nothing to do with and is not related in any way, shape or form to how close Thailand and the "west" are diplomatically or whether there are "elections" or "democracy".

Do we agree that Thailand is falling into the arms of China ? I'm not against all the Chinese investments and massive infra-structure projects in Thailand. I just feel it's best for Thailand if Thailand was back in with the West, and that will mean that Thailand can play the West against China (as in pick up gifts from both sides, have them two competing against each other for influence in Thailand).

No, I don't agree. Thailand is not "falling" into the arms of China at all, they are jumping into them willingly with both feet and brain removed, but with both sides making a shit load of money, aboveboard and under the table. And don't worry, no matter who is in charge here, they'll continue to play China/Russia/the "west" off against each other as they have been doing for generations.

I hope that clarifies things.

BTW, out of curiosity, tonbridgebrit ... how long have you lived here?

Tatsujin, thank you for using your time to write your stuff.

You wrote about how it is Thailand pushing the West away, and not the other way round. Hold on, there. The West is reducing it's political links with Thailand because of the 'coup' and the West has also made comments against the coup. This is something that posts from ThaiVisa have already said on many occasions, some of those posts are from the Nation newspaper. I don't think I'ill bore people by saying that when/if the present government of Thailand visits the West, well, they're not looked at in the same way as Thaksin or Abhisit would be. Do you accept that ?

You say that Thaksin can't run, he can't take part in an election. Well yes, what I meant was an election with a Thaksin proxy competing against Abhisit. We all know that whatever Thaksin proxy will be taking orders from Thaksin, the person will do and say as Thaksin says. We all accept that.

You wrote "[unless or until he gets pardoned by "someone" and whitewashed of all crimes retroactively - which is a distinct possibility if things go the way I think they will]". I find your comment very interesting.

Okay, why would the system remove all his 'crimes' and let him come back to fight a general election against Abhisit ? We all know that any future general election is going to be between Abhisit and Thaksin, if not, well, who on earth is going to be competing against who ?? But why declare Thaksin to be free of charges, and let him compete in an election ?

Well surely, the answer is, THE WEST WILL ONLY REGARD Thailand as being a democracy when Thaksin and Abhisit (who on earth is going to be competing, if it's not them two men) are in a general election, and one of them wins. Thailand actually wants to get back in with the West, Thailand wants to be recognised with full political links with the West, that's why it is that Thailand is trying to walk towards elections. IF THE WEST accepted Thailand fully as it is today, with full political links, then, there would be no need for Thailand to have elections, there would be no need to let Thaksin compete in a general election. Do you see what I mean ? Thailand might as well declare that there will be no elections for the next ten years. Why bother to have elections ? It's being done to get Thailand back in with the West.

[ikke]

So, mr. paymaster, what progress did you, somchai, yingluck, chalerm etc., and trt, pt, udd et all make on the numerous fronts the general is now trying to work through?

Also mr. paymaster are you conveniently not recognizing that on many of these items it will take many years to make progress to eventually get a better picture and then years to lock the changes into place?

And mr. paymaster are you conveniently not recognizing that there will be major delays and slowdowns caused by those who will fight change and renewal on every front possible and for as long as possible.

Hmmm, maybe .... but before you point this out, come with some proof that this populist junta did make some progress , I doubt it, economy down, export down, tourism down, show me what and where it goes better now than under the former government ...

People who make statements like this are not really realistic with their views. Economy and export is down pretty much all over the world and across most manufacturing sectors. Tourism is NOT down, its recovering and increasing if you care to read the news. Agriculture sector such as Rice has been damaged by the PTP's Rice Scheme. Shrimp farming sector is down because of disease that struck the shrimps and cut output by 50%. Rubber prices are down due to decrease demand from China.

Electronic sectors such as hard drive is down because people are steering away from traditional hard drives. Car production is down because the First Car Scheme is over.

The list goes on if you know what I mean...

Whats better now? Law enforcement across the board. That's probably the best positive change that will ripple on and will have a long term effect. Due to all these political wrangling, I think politicians are watching their backs more, thinking before they act too.

What a joke ...." if you care to read the news" haha, no I don't care, but do care to see that there are no bookings, that there are less arrivals, but , if you relay on a junta controlled news....

Shrimp farming down because Eu ban, but maybe you look only to Thai news.... Wake up or maybe grow up would help you.

[halloween]

The unequal application of justice is the root cause of the past, present & future division in the country. Those like yourself claiming that a one-sided purge of your political opponents is a step in the right direction are sadly deluded.

But that wasn't what you posted. You said that corruption is endemic and one criminal shouldn't be prosecuted, while I'm happy to see ANY criminal prosecuted, and deliriously happy to see this manipulative mongrel go down.

BTW the "one sided purge" is a false perception which slots in nicely with "politically motivated" and the false claims of massive unrest and further political division.

"Seems hard to believe so many here can't see the main factor behind this whole issue & try to pin it on corruption. As we all know, corruption is endemic in Thailand & infiltrates every institution and at every level of society. One of the most corrupt and bloated institutions in the country is the army, but is the General trying to fix that? His attempts to deal with corruption are simply a one-sided political purge, as everyone at an arms-length can see. Thaksin Shinawatra & every other rich person in Thailand became that way playing by the same rules & on the same playing field. How you can then turn around & accuse only a very select few for doing so is dumbfounding. Thaksin's fault was not corruption or ill-gained wealth, as that was a guilt shared by millions of others including the General's own family, it was becoming too popular. He threatened the pillars of Thai society, and that was unacceptable to those who had & continue to gain from holding the reigns of power. Thaksin had to be dealt with and that has been continuing for 10 years now."

Edited May 19, 2015 by halloween

[Gunna]

Their are hundreds or may even be thousands of people that get transferred for corruption and he is the only one that was sentenced by a Junta linked court to prison of which the state did not lost one cent. Just yesterday at the Tourism & Sport Ministry about 3 billion Baht was cheated and no one has been put in jail beside that CIB big shot a few months which we can't really discuss due to LM.

The economy is down, the yellows with Suthep destroyed tourism last year and the tourism that we see today comes from Chinese visitors which is good of course.

What happened to the land taxes. The 10 biggest Thai Chinese tycoons own over 1 million Rai so I called that political corruption for not moving forward with the land taxes. 1 million Rai x 5000 Baht for commercial land is 5.000.0000.000 Baht in the cover for the government and another 7 million Rai for farmland x 500 Baht is 3.5 billion Baht to the coffers.

When is Prayuth hunting the army on encroaching forestry land?

Try and at least get some correct facts

"CIB big shot a few months which we can't really discuss due to LM."

Pongpat was imprisoned for LM amoungst many other convictions

No problem disscussing his evil deeds

"The economy is down"

Announced on Monday 18th

Thai economy grew a modest 0.3% in Q1

"the yellows with Suthep destroyed tourism last year"

Yes it was down 6.7% in 2014 - hardly destroyed

Not helped by the dramatic fall in Russian visitors due to the falling Ruble.

Not helped by the strong Baht

And if PTP RTP & DSI had stopped criminals firing grenades at the protesters the foreign Governments wouldn't have had to issue warnings about central Bangkok

"the tourism that we see today comes from Chinese visitors which is good of course"

Many would disagree with that statement

Also lots of the Chinese are on inclusive packages at cut rates and little money is spent outside their closely organised tour programs

"the army on encroaching forestry land"

I thought the army was giving all the land illegally acquired back to the forestry department"

Are you saying they are keeping it for themselves

The Army is a government department, Ministry of Defense, so can one Government department use another departments land.

Or are you saying they are clearing forests and selling logs, or building race tracks and golf courses

YS appointed her self as Minister of Defense so maybe she knows something about it - if she ever attended a meeting,

[NeilSA1]

So, mr. paymaster, what progress did you, somchai, yingluck, chalerm etc., and trt, pt, udd et all make on the numerous fronts the general is now trying to work through?

Well Under Tackys rule was a consistent 6 - 7 % average growth rate.. Now its what ?? 3 and being revised down..

Kinda dwarfs any losses in the rice subsidy...

Please note that there was a general increase in growth rate WORLD WIDE in 2006/2007.

Country 1999 2000 2001 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 World 3 4.8 2.7 3.8 4.9 4.7 5.3 5.2 3.1 -0.7 4.9 3.7

Thailand's growth rate in 2006 was 5-1% and 5% in 2007 according to World GDP - real growth rate - Economy - Mundi

www.indexmundi.com › Factbook › Countries › World › Economy

Just for interest -

United Kingdom 3.2% (2014 est.)

1.7% (2013 est.)

0.3% (2012 est.) United States 2.4% (2014 est.)

2.2% (2013 est.)

2.3% (2012 est.)

[Srikcir]

The point is this, we've still got to see Thaksin and Abhisit competing in a general election. And once Thaksin is back in power, then, only then, will America and Europe accept that Thailand is a democracy. Who knows, maybe Abhisit can win an election, fine.

Yes, I know that a stack of people on ThaiVisa don't like Thaksin, yes, and it doesn't matter if some Thais want him back in charge. But, the longer Thailand is regarded as being not a democracy, the longer it is that the West will continue to drift away from Thailand. And more time for China to convert Thailand into a Chinese colony.

The ruling Thai elite, the vast bulk of them Chinese-Thais, these are Thailand's richest two or three per cent, they hate Thaksin.

But this ruling elite are also a bit concerned about Thailand drifting away from the West. These people are far more likely to send their children to universities in the West rather than to China. They're also more likely to buy real estate in places like London and America, rather than China. And here's the point. It's not in their interest for Thailand to drift away from the West, they want the West to recognise Thailand as a democracy.

As said earlier, everybody (the Chinese-Thai elite and the West) will only accept Thailand as a deomocracy once Thaksin and Abhisit are in a general election. That's why, Thaksin, love him or hate him, he's still got a role to play regarding Thailand's future. That's why the media still mentions him.

You miss the tiny point that Thaksin can't compete in a general election. Convicted criminals aren't allowed to stand - whether serving their punishment or fugitives on the run.

Then there is the matter of the 15 more serious crimes awaiting his appearance in court, which he's desperate to avoid.

So he's tried, tries to bribe the court with his lawyer being caught, convicted and then legs it before sentencing. No attempt to appeal and fight. Does that tell you something? 15 serious charges - which he's letting the statute of limitations tick away rather than fighting them in court. Does that tell you anything?

Are you a fan of then blanket Amnesty, wipe the slate clean, forget the past, zero the clock theory?

"then legs it before sentencing"

Wasn't he out on bail after the government appealed his "Not Guilty" verdict by the lower court? While on bail he left the country with permission of the government, he then decided not to return for the 2nd trial and was tried in absentia. It was then he was ruled Quilty and sentencing renedered.

[CiaranO]

Good man Thaksin. Say it like it is

[Muirton]

"He also said he has neither plans for his son, Oak, to take over the Pheu Thai Party, nor plans to mobilise his Red Shirt supporters. Instead he called on the Thai people not to resort to violence."

All said with a straight face, and whilst continuing to fund and encourage the PTP/UDD violence.

I've gotten to the point with this liar, that I automatically take the opposite meaning from anything he says.

At least ThaiPBS got this bit correct "who lives abroad to avoid a jail sentence handed down for graft" ... AFP etc keep saying he's essentially a political fugitive, rather than a convicted felon on the run, escaping an actual jail sentence which he didn't appeal.

I had started to reach that same conclusion toward the end of his first term. I became convinced at the start of his second.

Along with, if he takes credit for something, he probably had nothing to do with it and if he denies any involvement or knowledge, he is probably in it up to his neck.

Had a CEO once with a similar personality. During flag waving, he would clamor to hold the flag. When shit hits the fan, he would be the one furthest away.

Gosh, how fascinating, how connected to the OP. Tell us more, please, you must be so interesting.

[Muirton]

The point is this, we've still got to see Thaksin and Abhisit competing in a general election. And once Thaksin is back in power, then, only then, will America and Europe accept that Thailand is a democracy. Who knows, maybe Abhisit can win an election, fine.

Yes, I know that a stack of people on ThaiVisa don't like Thaksin, yes, and it doesn't matter if some Thais want him back in charge. But, the longer Thailand is regarded as being not a democracy, the longer it is that the West will continue to drift away from Thailand. And more time for China to convert Thailand into a Chinese colony.

The ruling Thai elite, the vast bulk of them Chinese-Thais, these are Thailand's richest two or three per cent, they hate Thaksin.

But this ruling elite are also a bit concerned about Thailand drifting away from the West. These people are far more likely to send their children to universities in the West rather than to China. They're also more likely to buy real estate in places like London and America, rather than China. And here's the point. It's not in their interest for Thailand to drift away from the West, they want the West to recognise Thailand as a democracy.

As said earlier, everybody (the Chinese-Thai elite and the West) will only accept Thailand as a deomocracy once Thaksin and Abhisit are in a general election. That's why, Thaksin, love him or hate him, he's still got a role to play regarding Thailand's future. That's why the media still mentions him.

You miss the tiny point that Thaksin can't compete in a general election. Convicted criminals aren't allowed to stand - whether serving their punishment or fugitives on the run.

Then there is the matter of the 15 more serious crimes awaiting his appearance in court, which he's desperate to avoid.

So he's tried, tries to bribe the court with his lawyer being caught, convicted and then legs it before sentencing. No attempt to appeal and fight. Does that tell you something? 15 serious charges - which he's letting the statute of limitations tick away rather than fighting them in court. Does that tell you anything?

Are you a fan of then blanket Amnesty, wipe the slate clean, forget the past, zero the clock theory?

Baerboxer, you have written your stuff. Okay, the pro-Thaksinites will feel that the charges against Thaksin were basically politically motivated. Now, it doesn't matter if people like us are anti or pro-Thaksin. It doesn't matter if five Thais or five million Thais want to wear red t-shirts.

The important or significant thing is, is what is the West trying to say ? The West obviously feels that there should be a general election with Thaksin and Abhisit competing against each other. And the West reckoning this, well, that's what's significant. Or do you reckon that the West drifting away from Thailand is not important ?

Nothing political at all. He broke the law, because he thought he was above the law, got caught, tried to bribe the court, failed, got convicted and ran.

Shin apologists will claim the conviction and all those 15 other charges, are all politically motivated; along with every other conviction and charge against any Shin family member, in-law or crony. Up to you if you want to believe it.

The West want to see democracy returned because that's their stand point, politically, which they use to try to get the moral ground.

Now, research how many business people, academics, educators NGO's, politicians and representatives from Western democracies have visited Thailand, signed agreements, held discussions aimed at collaborating more etc. You'll be surprised.

Saying the politically correct thing and actual actions are often completely the opposite.

BTW - the West ask for a return to elections and democracy. Never once have I read where they support Thaksin personally or any of his proxy parties or lackeys.

"Never once have I read where they support Thaksin personally or any of his proxy parties or lackeys." Poodle-in-the-Microwave alert.

[bristolgeoff]

from someone who left to escape a goal term and never can go back.the sister is paying the price now for his sins

[WhizBang]

Thaksin says Prayut government's performance unimpressive yet

Yet, significantly more impressive than the previous government, which was was run by Thaksin, er, I mean his clone.

What a hypocrite this man is. Why do they even give him any press time? Does anyone (other than the reds) care anymore about this bum?

[WhizBang]

<snip> That's why, Thaksin, love him or hate him, he's still got a role to play regarding Thailand's future. <snip>

The best role for Thaksin, no, the ONLY role for Thaksin, in Thailand's future, is to fade away into obscurity. No press/tv appearances, no interviews, no funding of red/udd activities and no more involvement in PTP. The same goes for the rest of that mongrel clan.

[WhizBang]

trogers, skywalker69 and Tatsujin, do you guys really think I'm talking a load of rubbish ??

Okay, do you accept that the West, right now, is drifting away from Thailand, and this is because the West reckons that Thailand is not a democracy ? Surely, with the posts from ThaiVisa here, (some of those posts from the Nation newspaper), we accept that the West is drifting away from Thailand ? Pro-Thaksinites and anti-Thaksinites accept it. It's just that the anti-Thaksinites feel that the West does not understand Thailand, they feel that the West is unable to see that Thaksin is a problem.

Do we agree that the West won't accept Thailand is a democracy unless Thaksin and Abhisit are competing against each other in a general election ? Yes or no ? Do you guys reckon that Thailand can get back in with the West without a general election and return to democracy ?

I wrote a bit of extra stuff about how Thailand's mega-rich are more likely to have their children educated in the West rather China. And I said that they're also more likely to have real estate in London and America rather than China. This is why the ruling elite don't actually want to see the West drifting away from Thailand. It's your choice to agree or disagree.

Do we agree that Thailand is falling into the arms of China ? I'm not against all the Chinese investments and massive infra-structure projects in Thailand. I just feel it's best for Thailand if Thailand was back in with the West, and that will mean that Thailand can play the West against China (as in pick up gifts from both sides, have them two competing against each other for influence in Thailand).

Thais are the ones obsessed with Thaskin (and apparantly you too), NOT the west. The west could care less who is in power. They just prefer that it is all democratic.

[FangFerang]

Having one criminal talking about other criminals seems a bit of a stretch....

[WhizBang]

There is nothing "common" about Taksin. He is the only genuine politician in the history of Thailand. Not a criminal, not a coward, just the future of Thailand, that's all.

Thaksin is both a criminal AND a coward.

If Thaksin is the future of Thailand, then Thailand has no future at all. Look at the antics of the last government to get a glimpse of what a Thaksin future would hold.

[Tatsujin]

Tatsujin, thank you for using your time to write your stuff.

You wrote about how it is Thailand pushing the West away, and not the other way round. Hold on, there. The West is reducing it's political links with Thailand because of the 'coup' and the West has also made comments against the coup. This is something that posts from ThaiVisa have already said on many occasions, some of those posts are from the Nation newspaper. I don't think I'ill bore people by saying that when/if the present government of Thailand visits the West, well, they're not looked at in the same way as Thaksin or Abhisit would be. Do you accept that ?

You say that Thaksin can't run, he can't take part in an election. Well yes, what I meant was an election with a Thaksin proxy competing against Abhisit. We all know that whatever Thaksin proxy will be taking orders from Thaksin, the person will do and say as Thaksin says. We all accept that.

You wrote "[unless or until he gets pardoned by "someone" and whitewashed of all crimes retroactively - which is a distinct possibility if things go the way I think they will]". I find your comment very interesting.

Okay, why would the system remove all his 'crimes' and let him come back to fight a general election against Abhisit ? We all know that any future general election is going to be between Abhisit and Thaksin, if not, well, who on earth is going to be competing against who ?? But why declare Thaksin to be free of charges, and let him compete in an election ?

Well surely, the answer is, THE WEST WILL ONLY REGARD Thailand as being a democracy when Thaksin and Abhisit (who on earth is going to be competing, if it's not them two men) are in a general election, and one of them wins. Thailand actually wants to get back in with the West, Thailand wants to be recognised with full political links with the West, that's why it is that Thailand is trying to walk towards elections. IF THE WEST accepted Thailand fully as it is today, with full political links, then, there would be no need for Thailand to have elections, there would be no need to let Thaksin compete in a general election. Do you see what I mean ? Thailand might as well declare that there will be no elections for the next ten years. Why bother to have elections ? It's being done to get Thailand back in with the West.

Of course the "west" has made comments decrying the coup, but it's hypocritical at best. They pretend they only deal with "democracies", the truth however is very different. If Thailand was to simply declare itself a "dictatorship" now for example, there would be condemnation from the "west" initially, but ultimately, they would still deal with Thailand. You only have to look at any other country that the USA deals with for example (other than Russia/China/Korea) ... if there's something there that the USA wants or needs, they'll deal with anyone. The idea that there was "democracy" under Thaksin though is laughable, it was a dictatorship where he did whatever he wanted and made himself immensely rich whilst doing so, all the while fooling the "sheeple" that believe it was all done for them.

I can't talk about "how" or "why" Thaksin might be pardoned at some point in the near future, you'll have to dig into that yourself ... but it's not hard to connect the dots if you've been here a while. It's a possibility, but a very strong one.

[scorecard]

<snip> That's why, Thaksin, love him or hate him, he's still got a role to play regarding Thailand's future. <snip>

The best role for Thaksin, no, the ONLY role for Thaksin, in Thailand's future, is to fade away into obscurity. No press/tv appearances, no interviews, no funding of red/udd activities and no more involvement in PTP. The same goes for the rest of that mongrel clan.

Plus the remaining charges heard and decided, punishment announced (if he's proven guilty) all in absentia, and of this published widely and accurately in simple balanced language in many media outlets so that all Thais can understand that he broke the law and got punished (if he's proven guilty).

In fact I often wonder whether there is a need to have regular media items to get more Thai people to understand what the law is, how it works, how the process works, etc.

Why? Well here's one example, one of the outer family circle 'aunties' in my Thai family is very vocal about everything, she's has numerous brushes with the law in terms of car accidents (in most cases she is at fault), arguments with neighbors, and more. She totally refuses to accept any responsibility for anything. She's never been outside of Thailand, she never reads newspapers etc.

When she's told by the police or more educated / more balanced family members about 'the law' her response is:

- 'There is no such thing as 'the law' for Thailand or for any country'.

- 'The law books people show you are fake, you can buy these fake books everywhere'.

- 'The local police should listen to each case and the local police should decide each case, and if your lucky enough to have the money to get the case to go your way then that's your good luck'.

I've heard other comments saying that in many areas many Thais see the same / similar picture.

[Nickymaster]

Blowing 13 billion dollar in 3 years on a crooked policy and fake rice deals is of course much more impressive. Thaksin does have a point I am afraid.

If Thaksin would have been successful in making a 'deal' with the army would he still have criticized them?

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/SEA-01-090813.html

Edited May 20, 2015 by Nickymaster

[mike324]

So, mr. paymaster, what progress did you, somchai, yingluck, chalerm etc., and trt, pt, udd et all make on the numerous fronts the general is now trying to work through?

Also mr. paymaster are you conveniently not recognizing that on many of these items it will take many years to make progress to eventually get a better picture and then years to lock the changes into place?

And mr. paymaster are you conveniently not recognizing that there will be major delays and slowdowns caused by those who will fight change and renewal on every front possible and for as long as possible.

Hmmm, maybe .... but before you point this out, come with some proof that this populist junta did make some progress , I doubt it, economy down, export down, tourism down, show me what and where it goes better now than under the former government ...

People who make statements like this are not really realistic with their views. Economy and export is down pretty much all over the world and across most manufacturing sectors. Tourism is NOT down, its recovering and increasing if you care to read the news. Agriculture sector such as Rice has been damaged by the PTP's Rice Scheme. Shrimp farming sector is down because of disease that struck the shrimps and cut output by 50%. Rubber prices are down due to decrease demand from China.

Electronic sectors such as hard drive is down because people are steering away from traditional hard drives. Car production is down because the First Car Scheme is over.

The list goes on if you know what I mean...

Whats better now? Law enforcement across the board. That's probably the best positive change that will ripple on and will have a long term effect. Due to all these political wrangling, I think politicians are watching their backs more, thinking before they act too.

What a joke ...." if you care to read the news" haha, no I don't care, but do care to see that there are no bookings, that there are less arrivals, but , if you relay on a junta controlled news....

Shrimp farming down because Eu ban, but maybe you look only to Thai news.... Wake up or maybe grow up would help you.

You don't read the news, then I assume you own a hotel or something to know there are no bookings? and less arrivals? I'm not arguing that there are more arrivals compare to before, I'm saying arrivals are reassuming and increasing again.

In case you missed the news since you don't read it...

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-04-02/tourists-are-back-in-thailand-for-now

Another indicator or tourist returning is AOT (airport authority of thailands) share price rising.

Shrimp farming down because of EU ban? show the be link where its ban? Nothing is banned, EU has only given out a yellow card!

But here are links from the junta controlled news stating why shrimp output has been down

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424127887323998604578565201120674008

http://www.dw.de/thai-shrimp-death-scientists-still-baffled-by-southeast-asian-disease/a-17301496

I think I have a pair of balls to back up what I write, do you?

[Nobb]

Thaksin says bad government performance so far. Does he mean no other Thia policeman has not have the chance to cheat the poor Thai people as much as he did. Come back to Thailand and talk! If not you are no better then a coward, cheater and bad example for Thai politics!

[tonbridgebrit]

Tatsujin, thank you for using your time to write your stuff.

You wrote about how it is Thailand pushing the West away, and not the other way round. Hold on, there. The West is reducing it's political links with Thailand because of the 'coup' and the West has also made comments against the coup. This is something that posts from ThaiVisa have already said on many occasions, some of those posts are from the Nation newspaper. I don't think I'ill bore people by saying that when/if the present government of Thailand visits the West, well, they're not looked at in the same way as Thaksin or Abhisit would be. Do you accept that ?

You say that Thaksin can't run, he can't take part in an election. Well yes, what I meant was an election with a Thaksin proxy competing against Abhisit. We all know that whatever Thaksin proxy will be taking orders from Thaksin, the person will do and say as Thaksin says. We all accept that.

You wrote "[unless or until he gets pardoned by "someone" and whitewashed of all crimes retroactively - which is a distinct possibility if things go the way I think they will]". I find your comment very interesting.

Okay, why would the system remove all his 'crimes' and let him come back to fight a general election against Abhisit ? We all know that any future general election is going to be between Abhisit and Thaksin, if not, well, who on earth is going to be competing against who ?? But why declare Thaksin to be free of charges, and let him compete in an election ?

Well surely, the answer is, THE WEST WILL ONLY REGARD Thailand as being a democracy when Thaksin and Abhisit (who on earth is going to be competing, if it's not them two men) are in a general election, and one of them wins. Thailand actually wants to get back in with the West, Thailand wants to be recognised with full political links with the West, that's why it is that Thailand is trying to walk towards elections. IF THE WEST accepted Thailand fully as it is today, with full political links, then, there would be no need for Thailand to have elections, there would be no need to let Thaksin compete in a general election. Do you see what I mean ? Thailand might as well declare that there will be no elections for the next ten years. Why bother to have elections ? It's being done to get Thailand back in with the West.

Of course the "west" has made comments decrying the coup, but it's hypocritical at best. They pretend they only deal with "democracies", the truth however is very different. If Thailand was to simply declare itself a "dictatorship" now for example, there would be condemnation from the "west" initially, but ultimately, they would still deal with Thailand. You only have to look at any other country that the USA deals with for example (other than Russia/China/Korea) ... if there's something there that the USA wants or needs, they'll deal with anyone. The idea that there was "democracy" under Thaksin though is laughable, it was a dictatorship where he did whatever he wanted and made himself immensely rich whilst doing so, all the while fooling the "sheeple" that believe it was all done for them.

I can't talk about "how" or "why" Thaksin might be pardoned at some point in the near future, you'll have to dig into that yourself ... but it's not hard to connect the dots if you've been here a while. It's a possibility, but a very strong one.

Tatsujin, again, thanks for your reply.

Okay, you wrote ["Of course the "west" has made comments decrying the coup, but it's hypocritical at best. They pretend they only deal with "democracies", the truth however is very different. If Thailand was to simply declare itself a "dictatorship" now for example, there would be condemnation from the "west" initially,".] Now then, I do actually mainly agree with your comment ! You also wrote about how ultimately, they would still deal with Thailand. Now, yes they would, but it will be on a lower level than if Thailand was a democracy.

Yes, I agree, countries like China and Saudi Arabia are not democracies, but the West still deals with them. But that's mainly because the West needs to deal with China (the West still wants to import a huge amount of cheap Chinese goods, the West is not interested in putting up sanctions against China). And Saudi Arabia has oil, the West is not interested in boycotting Saudi oil. By the way, I use the word the 'West' because I don't want to constantly write "America and the European Union".

But the West still has to, at the very least, make it look like that it is spreading freedom and democracy, which is why it is that we are seeing a reduction in political links withThailand. And yes, the reduction in political links, I think, does effect economic links.

On the issue of what America wants from Thailand, well, I think it's mainly to do with America not wanting Thailand to be totally under China's sphere of influence. Basically, China wants Thailand to be aligned with China, but America wants Thailand to be aligned with America. It can be said that the big boys (America, Russia, China) are taking part in a competition to see who can get the most countries aligned with it. Remember, your gain is somebody's loss, aligned with you means not being aligned with one of the others.

A very interesting issue that you have raised, Thaksin getting a pardon ?? You really reckon he might get one ? There's a difference between a prediction and a hope, you're predicting he might get a pardon. Well, surely, the vast bulk of the anti-Thaksinites on ThaiVisa predict that he won't get one, and all of them hope he will not get one. As for me, I predict that Thaksin will never be allowed to set foot in Thailand again, I'm pretty convinced on that point. Whether there is going to be an election (obviously involving a Thaksin proxy competing against the Democrats) or not, I'm not so certain, but I believe there isn't going to be one.

Yes, I am a person who was previously pretty familiar with Thailand !

[scorecard]

Tatsujin, thank you for using your time to write your stuff.

You wrote about how it is Thailand pushing the West away, and not the other way round. Hold on, there. The West is reducing it's political links with Thailand because of the 'coup' and the West has also made comments against the coup. This is something that posts from ThaiVisa have already said on many occasions, some of those posts are from the Nation newspaper. I don't think I'ill bore people by saying that when/if the present government of Thailand visits the West, well, they're not looked at in the same way as Thaksin or Abhisit would be. Do you accept that ?

You say that Thaksin can't run, he can't take part in an election. Well yes, what I meant was an election with a Thaksin proxy competing against Abhisit. We all know that whatever Thaksin proxy will be taking orders from Thaksin, the person will do and say as Thaksin says. We all accept that.

You wrote "[unless or until he gets pardoned by "someone" and whitewashed of all crimes retroactively - which is a distinct possibility if things go the way I think they will]". I find your comment very interesting.

Okay, why would the system remove all his 'crimes' and let him come back to fight a general election against Abhisit ? We all know that any future general election is going to be between Abhisit and Thaksin, if not, well, who on earth is going to be competing against who ?? But why declare Thaksin to be free of charges, and let him compete in an election ?

Well surely, the answer is, THE WEST WILL ONLY REGARD Thailand as being a democracy when Thaksin and Abhisit (who on earth is going to be competing, if it's not them two men) are in a general election, and one of them wins. Thailand actually wants to get back in with the West, Thailand wants to be recognised with full political links with the West, that's why it is that Thailand is trying to walk towards elections. IF THE WEST accepted Thailand fully as it is today, with full political links, then, there would be no need for Thailand to have elections, there would be no need to let Thaksin compete in a general election. Do you see what I mean ? Thailand might as well declare that there will be no elections for the next ten years. Why bother to have elections ? It's being done to get Thailand back in with the West.

Of course the "west" has made comments decrying the coup, but it's hypocritical at best. They pretend they only deal with "democracies", the truth however is very different. If Thailand was to simply declare itself a "dictatorship" now for example, there would be condemnation from the "west" initially, but ultimately, they would still deal with Thailand. You only have to look at any other country that the USA deals with for example (other than Russia/China/Korea) ... if there's something there that the USA wants or needs, they'll deal with anyone. The idea that there was "democracy" under Thaksin though is laughable, it was a dictatorship where he did whatever he wanted and made himself immensely rich whilst doing so, all the while fooling the "sheeple" that believe it was all done for them.

I can't talk about "how" or "why" Thaksin might be pardoned at some point in the near future, you'll have to dig into that yourself ... but it's not hard to connect the dots if you've been here a while. It's a possibility, but a very strong one.

Tatsujin, again, thanks for your reply.

Okay, you wrote ["Of course the "west" has made comments decrying the coup, but it's hypocritical at best. They pretend they only deal with "democracies", the truth however is very different. If Thailand was to simply declare itself a "dictatorship" now for example, there would be condemnation from the "west" initially,".] Now then, I do actually mainly agree with your comment ! You also wrote about how ultimately, they would still deal with Thailand. Now, yes they would, but it will be on a lower level than if Thailand was a democracy.

Yes, I agree, countries like China and Saudi Arabia are not democracies, but the West still deals with them. But that's mainly because the West needs to deal with China (the West still wants to import a huge amount of cheap Chinese goods, the West is not interested in putting up sanctions against China). And Saudi Arabia has oil, the West is not interested in boycotting Saudi oil. By the way, I use the word the 'West' because I don't want to constantly write "America and the European Union".

But the West still has to, at the very least, make it look like that it is spreading freedom and democracy, which is why it is that we are seeing a reduction in political links withThailand. And yes, the reduction in political links, I think, does effect economic links.

On the issue of what America wants from Thailand, well, I think it's mainly to do with America not wanting Thailand to be totally under China's sphere of influence. Basically, China wants Thailand to be aligned with China, but America wants Thailand to be aligned with America. It can be said that the big boys (America, Russia, China) are taking part in a competition to see who can get the most countries aligned with it. Remember, your gain is somebody's loss, aligned with you means not being aligned with one of the others.

A very interesting issue that you have raised, Thaksin getting a pardon ?? You really reckon he might get one ? There's a difference between a prediction and a hope, you're predicting he might get a pardon. Well, surely, the vast bulk of the anti-Thaksinites on ThaiVisa predict that he won't get one, and all of them hope he will not get one. As for me, I predict that Thaksin will never be allowed to set foot in Thailand again, I'm pretty convinced on that point. Whether there is going to be an election (obviously involving a Thaksin proxy competing against the Democrats) or not, I'm not so certain, but I believe there isn't going to be one.

Yes, I am a person who was previously pretty familiar with Thailand !

"Whether there is going to be an election (obviously involving a Thaksin proxy competing against the Democrats) or not, I'm not so certain, but I believe there isn't going to be one."

I also hope this won't happen because I desperately hope that when the main reforms are in place / locked in place we will see new and much more professional parties who have specific manifestos and the members of these parties are highly capable, sincere and honest Thais.

I have met many Thais who fit this profile, and I hope they make up the new parties and the new governments and oppositions.

If we just see a replay of the old parties and their lack of morals and lack of capability then progress will continue to be very slow.

[Robby nz]

I wonder if anyone on here can explain why the US, and their allies in the west, supported the 2013 military coup in Egypt that overthrew an elected president and now supports the death sentence handed down against him by a military Govt.

Then condemns a military coup in Thailand and sanctions the military Govt here.

You may be able to clear this conundrum up as it looks very much like hypocrisy to me.

But anyway the subject is a comparison with the performance of the present administration, although I don't know what its supposed to be compared with.

If with the Yingluck administration then it is way ahead.

This military Govt found the country in a terrible mess with private and Govt debt at record levels.

The farmers having not been paid for the rice scheme because someone had forgotten to allow for their payment before they dissolved the house.

A mountain of deteriorating rice that has to be disposed of with huge corruption within the pledging scheme that is now being exposed.

The fisheries in a mess that had gone on and not been addressed through multiple Thaksin administrations and the Abhisit Govt.

Human trafficking in the same situation.

Corruption at record levels, even to temple level.

Tourism down.

And a world economic slowdown along with the attitude of some western countries to make things even worse.

[Muirton]

Democracy is the same all over the world. The people get to vote to choose who will exploit and enslave them.

That's the most accurate summation of "democracy" I've read so far ...

That's the most infantile definition of democracy I've read so far. Read your J.S. Mill, MacAulay, Pitt the Younger, etc. and acquire some adult education.

[Thaddeus]

Democracy is the same all over the world. The people get to vote to choose who will exploit and enslave them.

That's the most accurate summation of "democracy" I've read so far ...

That's the most infantile definition of democracy I've read so far. Read your J.S. Mill, MacAulay, Pitt the Younger, etc. and acquire some adult education.

Reality has a habit of straying from book definitions.

[Thailand]

Well he is right in what he says?

[metisdead]

Some off topic posts and replies have been removed.