UN says will engage Israel on 'realistic options' for talks

[dexterm]

They were mostly tenant farmers and did not own any land. They worked for the rich absentee landlords in Beirut, Damascus and Cairo who did, but that would have been in the 1800s. The Jewish population had increased by a lot in the early 1900s. In about 1850, there were already Jews living in Jerusalem than Arabs and they made the economy work.

In your fabrication as usual you muddy the timeline as well as the statistics... "The Jewish population increased by a lot." is meaningless. But when you look at the facts...

Even the The Jewish Virtual Library claims that as far back as 1800 almost 100 years before the founding of Zionism in 1896 and the waves of Jewish migration that Zionism encouraged,Jews formed a mere 8.7% (24,000) and Palestinians 91.3% (275,000) of the population.

Even after the first waves of Jewish migrations 1890 - 1922, the Jewish population of Palestine was only 11% when the first census was taken, and they owned a mere 3% of the land

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/demograhics.html

Further evidence of your myth...

"Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews. In the following 30 years a few hundreds came to Palestine. Most of them were animated by religious motives; they came to pray and to die in the Holy Land, and to be buried in its soil.'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Palestine#Ottoman_period_demographics

So according to you this handful of orthodox Jews living mainly in Jerusalem were the ones making the economy work attracting thousands of Palestinians.They may have been printing Bibles and carving their tombstones but that was about their only industry.

Lets have a bit of honesty please. The main thrust of Jewish migration (much of it illegal) occurred between 1920 and 1947, and even then at the time of partition Jews only formed max 33% of the population with land ownership 6%, but demanding 56% of the land.

Using your source website Jewish virtual Library.

Size of Jewish population in 1918 was 8.1%, By 1931 it was 16.9% and by 1936 it wa 28.1%

Around the mid to late 1800's the total population of about 300,000 of which 24,000 were Jewish or 8.1% of the population.

I am sure you accept that the influx of Jews was because of the fact that by 1920 the British Mandate promised the land the the Jews. That between the 1930's to 1947, all the jews were escaping Nazi persecution.

You also fail to acknowledge that as much as there was ilegal enrty to Israel by Jews, The same was also true of the Arabs

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/mandate.html

By contrast, throughout the Mandatory period, Arab immigration was unrestricted. In 1930, the Hope Simpson Commission, sent from London to investigate the 1929 Arab riots, said the British practice of ignoring the uncontrolled illegal Arab immigration from Egypt, Transjordan and Syria had the effect of displacing the prospective Jewish immigrants.⁷

The British Governor of the Sinai from 1922-36 observed: “This illegal immigration was not only going on from the Sinai, but also from Transjordan and Syria, and it is very difficult to make a case out for the misery of the Arabs if at the same time their compatriots from adjoining states could not be kept from going in to share that misery.”⁸

The Peel Commission reported in 1937 that the “shortfall of land is, we consider, due less to the amount of land acquired by Jews than to the increase in the Arab population.”⁹

Just keeping it honest!

Nothing to acknowledge.

If Jews were fleeing persecution from Nazis in the Holocaust, that is not justification for entering Palestine illegally ultimately to displace Palestinians. It was the world's responsibility, not Palestinians. Many countries, including the USA, heartlessly turned away boatloads of persecuted Jews .

You muddy the waters with your final quote ... the 1937 Peel Commission concerns shortfall of land availability, not % of ownership which I quoted.

Also you make much of Arab migration cherry picking quotes. I could do the same. But I invite forum members to read the very thorough coverage of that whole debate at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Palestine#The_question_of_late_Arab_immigration_to_Palestine

..in every instance, whichever scholar's research you choose, Jewish migration by far outweighs any Palestinian.

Look...the bottom line is this, the Jews were a clear minority in land ownership and population in the 19th century (and even at the time of Partition in 1947 still were), and as a result of Zionism in the 20th century they have displaced the existing Palestinians into refugee camps. That's the whole crux of the problem.

Personally, any religious considerations "God promised us this land" or justifying ownership after a 2,000 year absence as though Judaism were a undiluted religion/race and they still possessed their title deeds, and the existing Palestinians were merely caretakers on non renewable annual leases, is silly. But believe it or not that actually forms the basis of Zionist claims to Palestine.

It's that sort of reality in the OP that Israelis must address...the injustice they have perpetrated against the Palestinians. You can't undo the past, when planning for the future, but at least Israelis could acknowledge their true history, rather than rubbing salt in the wound with a pack of lies.

That is what first interested me in this whole issue..... the Zionists' chutzpah at the enormous con job they have pulled on the global community especially the USA, portraying themselves as merry folk dancing martyrs who just want to live in their settlements but the wicked neighbors won't let them. When the truth is that the Zionists are the invaders and the Palestinians the now homeless victims.

Edited May 29, 2015 by dexterm

[ABCer]

Following numerous calls to return to OP and stay on topic from Mods -

somebody, please tell me what are these new realistic options we are engaging?

[Ulysses G.]

They were mostly tenant farmers and did not own any land. They worked for the rich absentee landlords in Beirut, Damascus and Cairo who did, but that would have been in the 1800s. The Jewish population had increased by a lot in the early 1900s. In about 1850, there were already Jews living in Jerusalem than Arabs and they made the economy work.

In your fabrication as usual you muddy the timeline as well as the statistics... "The Jewish population increased by a lot." is meaningless.

As usual, you ignore the post that I was responding to distort the facts - as you do in pretty much every single post. The time period in question ranged from the mid 1800s to 1948 and my post is entirely accurate.

What about the 93% of majority of Palestinian Arabs ? What did they do in the region before 1948 ?

This population chart is from YOUR SOURCE and confirms more Jews living in Jerusalem in 1844 than Muslims. Of course Jews made the economy work. Do you think that a bunch of broke, uneducated tenant farmers and desert nomads did it?

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/jerupop.html

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/jerupop.html

[Ulysses G.]

..in every instance, whichever scholar's research you choose, Jewish migration by far outweighs any Palestinian.

More of your usual nonsense. By 1945, the Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry reported that, although the Jewish population had risen from 84,000 in 1922 to 554,000, and three-fourths of this [Jewish] expansion was accounted for by immigration, the Arabs had increased "by a greater number" than the Jews.

Most of the immigration by Jews AND ARABS was technically "illegal."

[Ulysses G.]

Lets have a bit of honesty please. The main thrust of Jewish migration (much of it illegal) occurred between 1920 and 1947, and even then at the time of partition Jews only formed max 33% of the population with land ownership 6%, but demanding 56% of the land.

Yes, some honesty would be nice. The Jews did not "demand" anything. The land was alloted to Israel by the UN AFTER Britain gouged out roughly three-fourths of the Palestine territory mandated for the Jewish homeland and formed Jordan. That would have meant TWO homelands for the Palestinian Arabs and a lot more land for Arabs than Jews, but the Arabs refused the second chunk and declared war on Israel instead.

[Thorgal]

Palestine has been a modern Arab region before 1948. Peace and welfare finished after Zionist occupation. It's historically not correct to tell now that Palestine 'needed' Jewish intervention to boost their economy.

UN future peace plan can not be based on rumors that Israel contributed in the Palestinian economy.

I would never consider the Palestinians "a bunch of broke, uneducated tenant farmers and desert nomads" f you have a closer look to the Palestinian citizens and their modern lifestyle before 1948.

[Jingthing]

Palestinian "citizens" of what country? During British mandate Palestine Jews there were also referred to as Palestinian.

There never existed a nation called Palestine.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Edited May 29, 2015 by Jingthing

[ggold]

They were mostly tenant farmers and did not own any land. They worked for the rich absentee landlords in Beirut, Damascus and Cairo who did, but that would have been in the 1800s. The Jewish population had increased by a lot in the early 1900s. In about 1850, there were already Jews living in Jerusalem than Arabs and they made the economy work.

In your fabrication as usual you muddy the timeline as well as the statistics... "The Jewish population increased by a lot." is meaningless. But when you look at the facts...

Even the The Jewish Virtual Library claims that as far back as 1800 almost 100 years before the founding of Zionism in 1896 and the waves of Jewish migration that Zionism encouraged,Jews formed a mere 8.7% (24,000) and Palestinians 91.3% (275,000) of the population.

Even after the first waves of Jewish migrations 1890 - 1922, the Jewish population of Palestine was only 11% when the first census was taken, and they owned a mere 3% of the land

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/demograhics.html

Further evidence of your myth...

"Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews. In the following 30 years a few hundreds came to Palestine. Most of them were animated by religious motives; they came to pray and to die in the Holy Land, and to be buried in its soil.'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Palestine#Ottoman_period_demographics

So according to you this handful of orthodox Jews living mainly in Jerusalem were the ones making the economy work attracting thousands of Palestinians.They may have been printing Bibles and carving their tombstones but that was about their only industry.

Lets have a bit of honesty please. The main thrust of Jewish migration (much of it illegal) occurred between 1920 and 1947, and even then at the time of partition Jews only formed max 33% of the population with land ownership 6%, but demanding 56% of the land.

Using your source website Jewish virtual Library.

Size of Jewish population in 1918 was 8.1%, By 1931 it was 16.9% and by 1936 it wa 28.1%

Around the mid to late 1800's the total population of about 300,000 of which 24,000 were Jewish or 8.1% of the population.

I am sure you accept that the influx of Jews was because of the fact that by 1920 the British Mandate promised the land the the Jews. That between the 1930's to 1947, all the jews were escaping Nazi persecution.

You also fail to acknowledge that as much as there was ilegal enrty to Israel by Jews, The same was also true of the Arabs

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/mandate.html

By contrast, throughout the Mandatory period, Arab immigration was unrestricted. In 1930, the Hope Simpson Commission, sent from London to investigate the 1929 Arab riots, said the British practice of ignoring the uncontrolled illegal Arab immigration from Egypt, Transjordan and Syria had the effect of displacing the prospective Jewish immigrants.⁷

The British Governor of the Sinai from 1922-36 observed: “This illegal immigration was not only going on from the Sinai, but also from Transjordan and Syria, and it is very difficult to make a case out for the misery of the Arabs if at the same time their compatriots from adjoining states could not be kept from going in to share that misery.”⁸

The Peel Commission reported in 1937 that the “shortfall of land is, we consider, due less to the amount of land acquired by Jews than to the increase in the Arab population.”⁹

Just keeping it honest!

Nothing to acknowledge.

If Jews were fleeing persecution from Nazis in the Holocaust, that is not justification for entering Palestine illegally ultimately to displace Palestinians. It was the world's responsibility, not Palestinians. Many countries, including the USA, heartlessly turned away boatloads of persecuted Jews .

You muddy the waters with your final quote ... the 1937 Peel Commission concerns shortfall of land availability, not % of ownership which I quoted.

Also you make much of Arab migration cherry picking quotes. I could do the same. But I invite forum members to read the very thorough coverage of that whole debate at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Palestine#The_question_of_late_Arab_immigration_to_Palestine

..in every instance, whichever scholar's research you choose, Jewish migration by far outweighs any Palestinian.

Look...the bottom line is this, the Jews were a clear minority in land ownership and population in the 19th century (and even at the time of Partition in 1947 still were), and as a result of Zionism in the 20th century they have displaced the existing Palestinians into refugee camps. That's the whole crux of the problem.

Personally, any religious considerations "God promised us this land" or justifying ownership after a 2,000 year absence as though Judaism were a undiluted religion/race and they still possessed their title deeds, and the existing Palestinians were merely caretakers on non renewable annual leases, is silly. But believe it or not that actually forms the basis of Zionist claims to Palestine.

It's that sort of reality in the OP that Israelis must address...the injustice they have perpetrated against the Palestinians. You can't undo the past, when planning for the future, but at least Israelis could acknowledge their true history, rather than rubbing salt in the wound with a pack of lies.

That is what first interested me in this whole issue..... the Zionists' chutzpah at the enormous con job they have pulled on the global community especially the USA, portraying themselves as merry folk dancing martyrs who just want to live in their settlements but the wicked neighbors won't let them. When the truth is that the Zionists are the invaders and the Palestinians the now homeless victims.

Also you make much of Arab migration cherry picking quotes. I could do the same

You do Cherry pick your quotes, that is obvious. I invite readers to read the link which you and I used from the website

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/mandate.html

Surely that is more pertinant than using wiki to refute the reality?

A link for the demographics of Palestine https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Society_&_Culture/israel_palestine_pop.html.

you said ".in every instance, whichever scholar's research you choose, Jewish migration by far outweighs any Palestinian."

Arab immigration into Israel was far higher than Jews up until the war of independence 1948 when over 1,000,000 non Jews fled from Israel. presumably back to where they came from in the first place. So many ilegal Arab immigrants!

Look...the bottom line is this, the Jews were a clear minority in land ownership and population in the 19th century (and even at the time of Partition in 1947 still were), and as a result of Zionism in the 20th century they have displaced the existing Palestinians into refugee camps. That's the whole crux of the problem.

The bottom line is The Arabs couldn't even accept those parts of Palestine given to the Jews, even when they still were the larger percentage of the population in those given areas. The Arab league are the ones who hearded the Arabs into refugee camps. They were displaced by their own people who could have so easily absorbed them into their communities. So Blame the arabs for the misery they have brought apon themselves.

The Palestinians have been used by the Arab League for dacades, Even Abbas a Jordanian has no real right to negotiate for the Arabs. He keeps his own people in refugee camps in the West Bank? Do the Arabs pity their homeless people. Sure doesn't look like it to me!

[Ulysses G.]

Palestine has been a modern Arab region before 1948.

I'm not sure what the point of the Youtube video is. I don't think you can call a region with Arabs, Christians and Jews living there an "Arab region". Zionism came to the Palestine region in the early 1800s - long before 1948.

As Jingthing said, "There never existed an independent Arab nation called Palestine." During British mandate Palestine Jews were referred to as Palestinians. Arabs were mostly just called Arabs.

[Thorgal]

Palestinians from before 1948 had land titles, birth certificates, passports, ID's, currency, etc..., but they were not 'citizens'...?

It's known that early Israeli government provided selective 'right to return' after 1948 to those Palestinians who could provide their original Palestinian birth certificates. Others who couldn't provide their birth certificate due to the aggressive exit are not allowed - till now - to enter Gaza and/or West Bank.

Just another UN violation to keep people stateless.

I think you try to drawn your own fish again.

[Ulysses G.]

There has never been an Arab country called Palestine. You keep making up faux-history Any documents would have been for the British Mandate of Palestine or the Ottoman Empire before that.

VERY few Palestinian Arabs owned any land. Rich absentee landlords - citizens of the the Ottoman Empire - in Beirut, Damascus and Cairo had the deeds.

Edited May 29, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[Jingthing]

The clear motivation of the Israel demonizers in pushing their twisted one sided narrative about the history of Israel is to argue it shouldn't have existed in the first place. No hope for peace without accepting Israel's existence. Palestinian so called refugees ... time to let it go.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Ulysses G.]

I have started to think that they hope by posting so many obvious distortions and lies, they hope to confuse readers who are too lazy to locate a decent source of actual history and read it.

dexterm - a major demonizer of Israel - often refers to http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/mandate.html, which IS great source, but he mostly uses it for dates and such and then makes up fairy tales about the actual history which is not on the website. I guess he thinks that using the link makes his fake history more convincing, but if you look, the website tells a completely different story.

This is another legitimate source for people who want easily understood history that is very accurate.

https://books.google.co.th/books?id=ft-BgQpMvmUC&pg=PA162&lpg=PA162&dq=Jamal+Husseini++told+the+Security+Council:+&hl=en#v=onepage&q=Jamal%20Husseini%20%20told%20the%20Security%20Council%3A&f=false

[ABCer]

Following numerous calls to return to OP and stay on topic from Mods -

somebody, please tell me what are these new realistic options we are engaging?

Palestine has been a modern Arab region before 1948. Peace and welfare finished after Zionist occupation. It's historically not correct to tell now that Palestine 'needed' Jewish intervention to boost their economy.

UN future peace plan can not be based on rumors that Israel contributed in the Palestinian economy.

I would never consider the Palestinians "a bunch of broke, uneducated tenant farmers and desert nomads" f you have a closer look to the Palestinian citizens and their modern lifestyle before 1948.

I really appreciate the emotional appeal of the references quoted above.

Therefore, trying to present a balanced picture let me call the following "The evolution of nomad":

http://player.vimeo.com/video/106171741

[ggold]

They were mostly tenant farmers and did not own any land. They worked for the rich absentee landlords in Beirut, Damascus and Cairo who did, but that would have been in the 1800s. The Jewish population had increased by a lot in the early 1900s. In about 1850, there were already Jews living in Jerusalem than Arabs and they made the economy work.

In your fabrication as usual you muddy the timeline as well as the statistics... "The Jewish population increased by a lot." is meaningless. But when you look at the facts...

Even the The Jewish Virtual Library claims that as far back as 1800 almost 100 years before the founding of Zionism in 1896 and the waves of Jewish migration that Zionism encouraged,Jews formed a mere 8.7% (24,000) and Palestinians 91.3% (275,000) of the population.

Even after the first waves of Jewish migrations 1890 - 1922, the Jewish population of Palestine was only 11% when the first census was taken, and they owned a mere 3% of the land

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/demograhics.html

Further evidence of your myth...

"Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews. In the following 30 years a few hundreds came to Palestine. Most of them were animated by religious motives; they came to pray and to die in the Holy Land, and to be buried in its soil.'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Palestine#Ottoman_period_demographics

So according to you this handful of orthodox Jews living mainly in Jerusalem were the ones making the economy work attracting thousands of Palestinians.They may have been printing Bibles and carving their tombstones but that was about their only industry.

Lets have a bit of honesty please. The main thrust of Jewish migration (much of it illegal) occurred between 1920 and 1947, and even then at the time of partition Jews only formed max 33% of the population with land ownership 6%, but demanding 56% of the land.

Using your source website Jewish virtual Library.

Size of Jewish population in 1918 was 8.1%, By 1931 it was 16.9% and by 1936 it wa 28.1%

Around the mid to late 1800's the total population of about 300,000 of which 24,000 were Jewish or 8.1% of the population.

I am sure you accept that the influx of Jews was because of the fact that by 1920 the British Mandate promised the land the the Jews. That between the 1930's to 1947, all the jews were escaping Nazi persecution.

You also fail to acknowledge that as much as there was ilegal enrty to Israel by Jews, The same was also true of the Arabs

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/mandate.html

By contrast, throughout the Mandatory period, Arab immigration was unrestricted. In 1930, the Hope Simpson Commission, sent from London to investigate the 1929 Arab riots, said the British practice of ignoring the uncontrolled illegal Arab immigration from Egypt, Transjordan and Syria had the effect of displacing the prospective Jewish immigrants.⁷

The British Governor of the Sinai from 1922-36 observed: “This illegal immigration was not only going on from the Sinai, but also from Transjordan and Syria, and it is very difficult to make a case out for the misery of the Arabs if at the same time their compatriots from adjoining states could not be kept from going in to share that misery.”⁸

The Peel Commission reported in 1937 that the “shortfall of land is, we consider, due less to the amount of land acquired by Jews than to the increase in the Arab population.”⁹

Just keeping it honest!

Nothing to acknowledge.

If Jews were fleeing persecution from Nazis in the Holocaust, that is not justification for entering Palestine illegally ultimately to displace Palestinians. It was the world's responsibility, not Palestinians. Many countries, including the USA, heartlessly turned away boatloads of persecuted Jews .

You muddy the waters with your final quote ... the 1937 Peel Commission concerns shortfall of land availability, not % of ownership which I quoted.

Also you make much of Arab migration cherry picking quotes. I could do the same. But I invite forum members to read the very thorough coverage of that whole debate at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Palestine#The_question_of_late_Arab_immigration_to_Palestine

..in every instance, whichever scholar's research you choose, Jewish migration by far outweighs any Palestinian.

Look...the bottom line is this, the Jews were a clear minority in land ownership and population in the 19th century (and even at the time of Partition in 1947 still were), and as a result of Zionism in the 20th century they have displaced the existing Palestinians into refugee camps. That's the whole crux of the problem.

Personally, any religious considerations "God promised us this land" or justifying ownership after a 2,000 year absence as though Judaism were a undiluted religion/race and they still possessed their title deeds, and the existing Palestinians were merely caretakers on non renewable annual leases, is silly. But believe it or not that actually forms the basis of Zionist claims to Palestine.

It's that sort of reality in the OP that Israelis must address...the injustice they have perpetrated against the Palestinians. You can't undo the past, when planning for the future, but at least Israelis could acknowledge their true history, rather than rubbing salt in the wound with a pack of lies.

That is what first interested me in this whole issue..... the Zionists' chutzpah at the enormous con job they have pulled on the global community especially the USA, portraying themselves as merry folk dancing martyrs who just want to live in their settlements but the wicked neighbors won't let them. When the truth is that the Zionists are the invaders and the Palestinians the now homeless victims.

Are you not contrdicting yourself?

First you say Jews were a minority. Now you claim Jewish migration by far outweighs any Palestinian. Which would imply the oposite of Jews were a minority!

Getting confused are we?

[Seastallion]

There has never been an Arab country called Palestine. You keep making up faux-history Any documents would have been for the British Mandate of Palestine or the Ottoman Empire before that.

VERY few Palestinian Arabs owned any land. Rich absentee landlords - citizens of the the Ottoman Empire - in Beirut, Damascus and Cairo had the deeds.

I thought the "there never was a country called Palestine" argument would be below you since it is so meaningless in the context of the what is, and has been happening. Yet you still have to refer to those people that were there at the time as "Palestinian Arabs" (quoting you).

Never mind...

So...you are very fond of talking about the landlords in Damascus, Cairo, and Beirut......why were the Zionists allowed to take over their land?

[Seastallion]

In your fabrication as usual you muddy the timeline as well as the statistics... "The Jewish population increased by a lot." is meaningless. But when you look at the facts...

Even the The Jewish Virtual Library claims that as far back as 1800 almost 100 years before the founding of Zionism in 1896 and the waves of Jewish migration that Zionism encouraged,Jews formed a mere 8.7% (24,000) and Palestinians 91.3% (275,000) of the population.

Even after the first waves of Jewish migrations 1890 - 1922, the Jewish population of Palestine was only 11% when the first census was taken, and they owned a mere 3% of the land

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/demograhics.html

Further evidence of your myth...

"Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews. In the following 30 years a few hundreds came to Palestine. Most of them were animated by religious motives; they came to pray and to die in the Holy Land, and to be buried in its soil.'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Palestine#Ottoman_period_demographics

So according to you this handful of orthodox Jews living mainly in Jerusalem were the ones making the economy work attracting thousands of Palestinians.They may have been printing Bibles and carving their tombstones but that was about their only industry.

Lets have a bit of honesty please. The main thrust of Jewish migration (much of it illegal) occurred between 1920 and 1947, and even then at the time of partition Jews only formed max 33% of the population with land ownership 6%, but demanding 56% of the land.

Using your source website Jewish virtual Library.

Size of Jewish population in 1918 was 8.1%, By 1931 it was 16.9% and by 1936 it wa 28.1%

Around the mid to late 1800's the total population of about 300,000 of which 24,000 were Jewish or 8.1% of the population.

I am sure you accept that the influx of Jews was because of the fact that by 1920 the British Mandate promised the land the the Jews. That between the 1930's to 1947, all the jews were escaping Nazi persecution.

You also fail to acknowledge that as much as there was ilegal enrty to Israel by Jews, The same was also true of the Arabs

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/mandate.html

By contrast, throughout the Mandatory period, Arab immigration was unrestricted. In 1930, the Hope Simpson Commission, sent from London to investigate the 1929 Arab riots, said the British practice of ignoring the uncontrolled illegal Arab immigration from Egypt, Transjordan and Syria had the effect of displacing the prospective Jewish immigrants.⁷

The British Governor of the Sinai from 1922-36 observed: “This illegal immigration was not only going on from the Sinai, but also from Transjordan and Syria, and it is very difficult to make a case out for the misery of the Arabs if at the same time their compatriots from adjoining states could not be kept from going in to share that misery.”⁸

The Peel Commission reported in 1937 that the “shortfall of land is, we consider, due less to the amount of land acquired by Jews than to the increase in the Arab population.”⁹

Just keeping it honest!

Nothing to acknowledge.

If Jews were fleeing persecution from Nazis in the Holocaust, that is not justification for entering Palestine illegally ultimately to displace Palestinians. It was the world's responsibility, not Palestinians. Many countries, including the USA, heartlessly turned away boatloads of persecuted Jews .

You muddy the waters with your final quote ... the 1937 Peel Commission concerns shortfall of land availability, not % of ownership which I quoted.

Also you make much of Arab migration cherry picking quotes. I could do the same. But I invite forum members to read the very thorough coverage of that whole debate at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Palestine#The_question_of_late_Arab_immigration_to_Palestine

..in every instance, whichever scholar's research you choose, Jewish migration by far outweighs any Palestinian.

Look...the bottom line is this, the Jews were a clear minority in land ownership and population in the 19th century (and even at the time of Partition in 1947 still were), and as a result of Zionism in the 20th century they have displaced the existing Palestinians into refugee camps. That's the whole crux of the problem.

Personally, any religious considerations "God promised us this land" or justifying ownership after a 2,000 year absence as though Judaism were a undiluted religion/race and they still possessed their title deeds, and the existing Palestinians were merely caretakers on non renewable annual leases, is silly. But believe it or not that actually forms the basis of Zionist claims to Palestine.

It's that sort of reality in the OP that Israelis must address...the injustice they have perpetrated against the Palestinians. You can't undo the past, when planning for the future, but at least Israelis could acknowledge their true history, rather than rubbing salt in the wound with a pack of lies.

That is what first interested me in this whole issue..... the Zionists' chutzpah at the enormous con job they have pulled on the global community especially the USA, portraying themselves as merry folk dancing martyrs who just want to live in their settlements but the wicked neighbors won't let them. When the truth is that the Zionists are the invaders and the Palestinians the now homeless victims.

Are you not contrdicting yourself?

First you say Jews were a minority. Now you claim Jewish migration by far outweighs any Palestinian. Which would imply the oposite of Jews were a minority!

Getting confused are we?

No confusion except from you...it's very simple maths.

As an example.....There are 100 yellow jellybeans, and 1000 blue jellybeans. Add 500 yellow jellybeans and 100 blue jellybeans. You have a greater increase of yellow jellybeans, but still less in number than blue jellybeans.

[Ulysses G.]

So...you are very fond of talking about the landlords in Damascus, Cairo, and Beirut......why were the Zionists allowed to take over their land?

As usual, you have nothing worthwhile to say, but that never stops you. The "there never was a country called Palestine" argument is a FACT. It fits anywhere.

The "Zionists" BOUGHT a lot of Arab land. That was the initial plan, but when the Arabs attacked them anyway, that all went out the window and the Jews fought back and WON. Hence the country of Israel and zip for the Arabs that started the violence in the first place.

Edited May 29, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[Seastallion]

The clear motivation of the Israel demonizers in pushing their twisted one sided narrative about the history of Israel is to argue it shouldn't have existed in the first place. No hope for peace without accepting Israel's existence. Palestinian so called refugees ... time to let it go.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Clear to you, maybe, but your perspective is clearly ......to put it nicely, hmmmm.....(you used the word "twisted" to refer to us and I won't use that as it may be inflammatory, which you can get away with but I can't)....less than balanced.

All the major "Israel demonisers" (as you inflammatorily call us) on this forum do not argue that Israel should not have existed in the first place. All of us accept the existence of Israel. That's very clear.

Please stop with the inflammatory language and distortions.

[BKKBobby]

As usual, you have nothing worthwhile to say, but that never stops you. The "there never was a country called Palestine" argument is a FACT. It fits anywhere.

The "Zionists" BOUGHT a lot of Arab land. That was the initial plan, but when the Arabs attacked them anyway, that all went out the window and the Jews fought back and WON. Hence the country of Israel and zip for the Arabs that started the violence in the first place.

"there never was a country called Palestine"

Its a fact, we all know it.

But you and your sidekick mentions it everytime you feel you have half a weak reason to mention it.

Lets discuss and cut the tiresome statements, they dont help your cause.

Edited May 29, 2015 by BKKBobby

[Seastallion]

As usual, you have nothing worthwhile to say, but that never stops you. The "there never was a country called Palestine" argument is a FACT. It fits anywhere.

The "Zionists" BOUGHT a lot of Arab land. That was the initial plan, but when the Arabs attacked them anyway, that all went out the window and the Jews fought back and WON. Hence the country of Israel and zip for the Arabs that started the violence in the first place.

The Zionists bought a lot of land...I do not doubt you! What, exactly, is "a lot"? What is "a lot" in comparison to what they didn't buy, but occupied? Is it still "a lot" relatively?

NO it isn't!!! So stop with the obfuscation.

[Ulysses G.]

"there never was a country called Palestine"

Its a fact, we all know it.

Maybe it finally stuck in a few pea-brains, but some Jew-haters still continually deny it on this form. It is a FACT well worth bringing up regularly.

Edited May 29, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[Seastallion]

"there never was a country called Palestine"

Its a fact, we all know it.

Maybe it finally stuck in a few pea-brains, but some Jew-haters still continually deny it on this form. It is a FACT well worth bringing up regularly.

For posterity.

Pea-brains. Jew-haters.

Charming language.

Edited May 29, 2015 by Seastallion

[Ulysses G.]

As usual, you have nothing worthwhile to say, but that never stops you. The "there never was a country called Palestine" argument is a FACT. It fits anywhere.

The "Zionists" BOUGHT a lot of Arab land. That was the initial plan, but when the Arabs attacked them anyway, that all went out the window and the Jews fought back and WON. Hence the country of Israel and zip for the Arabs that started the violence in the first place.

The Zionists bought a lot of land...I do not doubt you!

Good. The point is that the Arabs kept attacking the Jews and and tried driving them off the land they had bought legally anyway. If you want exact dimensions, educate yourself for a change. You could really use it.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Virtual_Library

[Thorgal]

There has never been an Arab country called Palestine. You keep making up faux-history Any documents would have been for the British Mandate of Palestine or the Ottoman Empire before that.

VERY few Palestinian Arabs owned any land. Rich absentee landlords - citizens of the the Ottoman Empire - in Beirut, Damascus and Cairo had the deeds.

Quote from link : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandatory_Palestine

Why Palestine (majority)never became a nation before end of British Mandatory Palestine:

Following its occupation by British troops in 1917–1918, Palestine was governed by the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration. In July 1920, the military administration was replaced by a civilian administration headed by a High Commissioner.The first High Commissioner, Herbert Samuel, a ZIONIST recent cabinet minister, arrived in Palestine on 20 June 1920, to take up his appointment from 1 July.

The 1922 Palestine Order in Council established a Legislative Council, which was to consist of 23 members: 12 elected, 10 appointed, and the High Commissioner. Of the 12 elected members, eight were to be Muslim Arabs, two Christian Arabs and two Jews. Arabs protested against the distribution of the seats, arguing that as they constituted 88% of the population, having only 43% of the seats was unfair.

Why Israel (minority)became a nation BEFORE end of British Mandatory Palestine:

The British had notified the U.N. of their intent to terminate the mandate not later than 1 August 1948. However, early in 1948, the United Kingdom announced its firm intention to end its mandate in Palestine on 14 May.

The Jewish Leadership, led by future Prime Minister, David Ben-Gurion, declared the establishment of a Jewish State in Eretz-Israel, to be known as the State of Israel, on the afternoon of Friday, 14 May 1948, to come into force at midnight of that day.

Short analyse how to shift from absentee landlords to permanent cheating landlords and by-passing all UN regulations...

Please do not refer to UN validity today of the Balfour declaration...

Edited May 29, 2015 by Thorgal

[Seastallion]

As usual, you have nothing worthwhile to say, but that never stops you. The "there never was a country called Palestine" argument is a FACT. It fits anywhere.

The "Zionists" BOUGHT a lot of Arab land. That was the initial plan, but when the Arabs attacked them anyway, that all went out the window and the Jews fought back and WON. Hence the country of Israel and zip for the Arabs that started the violence in the first place.

The Zionists bought a lot of land...I do not doubt you!

Good. The point is that the Arabs kept attacking the Jews and and tried driving them off the land they had bought legally anyway. If you want exact dimensions, educate yourself for a change. You could really use it.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Virtual_Library

As usual, you quote out of context (against forum rules), fail to answer the pertinent point, and respond with inflammatory language (also against forum rules).

How do you continually get away with it?

[Ulysses G.]

Why Palestine (majority)never became a nation before end of British Mandatory Palestine:

I guess typing "ZIONIST" in capital letter is a clue to the silly conspiracy theory you are trying to promote, but this is why Palestine never became a nation before the end of the British Mandatory Palestine period. The Arabs REFUSED and started a war instead, which they promptly LOST..

The Arab-Israeli War of 1948 broke out when five Arab nations invaded territory in the former Palestinian mandate immediately following the announcement of the independence of the state of Israel on May 14, 1948.

https://history.state.gov/milestones/1945-1952/arab-israeli-war

[dexterm]

There is now a state of Palestine recognized by 70% of the world's countries already, and they are not going to unrecognize it are they? So lets look towards the future rather than the past.

Another realistic option would be that the number of nations recognizing Palestine will increase, building pressure on Israel and the USA and its embarrassing blind support. If USA would abstain in any UNSC vote and does not use its veto, full statehood would happen tomorrow.

Then all Palestine has to do is appeal to UN against the illegal occupation of its country with all the consequences that might entail. It may be the most peaceful solution to the problem in the end. Accept the umpire's decision.

Edited May 29, 2015 by dexterm

[geriatrickid]

Considering that the UN was formed in 1945 for the notion of "never again" after WW2, and considering the history behind the formation of the state of Israel, it's beyond arrogance for Israel to continually ignore the UN.

Check the history, because you are incorrect. The UN was formed to promote international co-operation. It was intended to be more effective than the League of Nations which had failed to prevent the Spanish civil war, the invasion of North Africa by Italy and the Invasion of Poland by Germany and Russia. It had nothing to do with "Never Again".

The UN actually worked in its early years. Then, when all sorts of nations who have never contributed to the betterment of humanity joined and were willing to sell their votes, it went downhill.

[geriatrickid]

There is now a state of Palestine recognized by 70% of the world's countries already, and they are not going to unrecognize it are they? So lets look towards the future rather than the past.

Another realistic option would be that the number of nations recognizing Palestine will increase, building pressure on Israel and the USA and its embarrassing blind support. If USA would abstain in any UNSC vote and does not use its veto, full statehood would happen tomorrow.

Then all Palestine has to do is appeal to UN against the illegal occupation of its country with all the consequences that might entail. It may be the most peaceful solution to the problem in the end. Accept the umpire's decision.

Your solution would work both ways, because the Arab countries would be obliged to pay billions in compensation for the seizure of jewish arabs property and possessions. These refugees could make their claim against the disputed lands. Keep in mind that much of the territory claimed by "Palestinians" wasn't legally theirs to begin with. Look up the history of Jordan and who owned the west bank. It was part of Jordan, and lost in a war that Jordan started. Gaza was an Egyptian protectorate. When Gaza was initially lost it was due to a war that Egypt had waged against Israel.

My point is that the "Palestinians" are claiming lands they never had legal right to.