UN says will engage Israel on 'realistic options' for talks

[Asiantravel]

I think this is great!

Something Else Coming In September: A UN Resolution Establishing A Palestinian State

" At this moment, 136 nations have already recognized a Palestinian state, but the United States has always blocked recognition by the UN Security Council. This time may be different though, because there are quite a few indications that Barack Obama actually plans to back the French resolution in September. If that happens, and the UN Security Council approves this resolution, it is going to have enormous implications for all of us."

http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/something-else-coming-in-september-a-un-resolution-establishing-a-palestinian-state

[Ulysses G.]

I think this is great!

Thanks for todays big laugh. Science fiction and from such a credible source.

End Of The American Dream.com

"The American Dream Is Becoming An Absolute Nightmare And Life As We Know It Is About To Change"

[dexterm]

I think this is great!

Something Else Coming In September: A UN Resolution Establishing A Palestinian State

" At this moment, 136 nations have already recognized a Palestinian state, but the United States has always blocked recognition by the UN Security Council. This time may be different though, because there are quite a few indications that Barack Obama actually plans to back the French resolution in September. If that happens, and the UN Security Council approves this resolution, it is going to have enormous implications for all of us."

http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/something-else-coming-in-september-a-un-resolution-establishing-a-palestinian-state

Good news indeed. The UN is moving more quickly that I thought to get Israel to think realistically about its options...the best deal for Israel is a 2 state solution. And if Israel continues to stall, then France and others I am sure will recognize Palestine. The tide is turning.

The ultimate persuader will be EU sanctions from Israel's biggest trading partner. When Israeli wallets start to hurt, they will begin to see sense.

UN resolution to impose 18-month deadline on Palestinian state talks

UN security council resolution being drafted by France and New Zealand plans to set an 18-month deadline for completion of talks leading to the creation of a Palestinian state.

Details of the draft resolution – disclosed to the French newspaper Le Figaro – emerged on Thursday amid warnings that if no agreement was reached in that timeframe, France would go ahead and unilaterally recognise a Palestinian state.

Pressure appears to be mounting on Israelis and Palestinians, not least from Europe, to return to the negotiating table after a damaging hiatus in the peace process of more than a year.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/may/21/un-resolution-to-impose-18-month-deadline-on-palestinian-state-talks

[Asiantravel]

I think this is great!

Thanks for todays big laugh. Science fiction and from such a credible source.

End Of The American Dream.com

"The American Dream Is Becoming An Absolute Nightmare And Life As We Know It Is About To Change"

" France is hoping this time to avoid a US veto at the UN because of increasing American frustration with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu."

http://www.timesofisrael.com/france-preparing-draft-for-un-resoluton-on-palestine/

[Jingthing]

Your "news" is dated.

[DaddyWarbucks]

Your "news" is dated.

Yes it is... like old wine in new bottles.

The Roman Emperor Hadrian created Syria Palestina in 135 AD, and it remained Palestine - in one form or another - until 1948.

"History repeats itself first as tragedy and then as farce."

Current events are proving how true the old proverbs are.

[Ulysses G.]

The Roman Emperor Hadrian created Syria Palestina in 135 AD, and it remained Palestine - in one form or another - until 1948.

Before that it was called Judea and most of the populace were Jews.

[NeverSure]

Or is your realistic option ? for Israel to unilaterally retreat behind its wall, summon home some of the remote settlers, and call everything else Jordan or Palestine or whatever. Well, that would be silly. Because if you do that you may as well put in the extra miles and negotiate a proper 2 state solution with an internationally recognized border for Israel, and all the appropriate security checks and balances, and all the enormous economic benefits too.

There you go again. Deflection.

"Israel to unilaterally retreat behind its wall, summon home some of the remote settlers..."

Israel is already behind its wall. It has exactly and only that which was internationally agreed to be Israel's after WWII, and only that which it has inhabited for 3,700 years at a minimum. It has only what Jordan then took my military force in 1948-1949 and which Israel took back in the Six Day War in 1967.

I have no idea why (well, actually I know exactly why) there is no reference in the post to E. Jerusalem. E. Jerusalem is the historic city of Judaism and of Israel. Israel has built this city including modern infrastructure and you would just give it to usurpers?

Until people who support the pre-1967 border idea call it what it is they will continue to be disingenuous. You say "remote settlers" as if that just rolls off your tongue when in truth they are settlers in the area that is rightfully Israel's by international decree. It is the Palestinians who are trespassing.

An untruth can consist of intentional omission, and calling it the West Bank which it is, but failing to mention that it is E. Jerusalem with the Old City, the Temple Mount and so many other historical Israeli sites is the height of omission.

Let's tell the truth. The Palestinian Refugees believe they are entitled to a historical Israeli city which Israel built and owns. Until Israel agrees to give away its city and its investment in it along with all of the important Jewish religious sites in it, Israel will be considered by some as the bad guy.

Please start being honest and just say that the Muslims want the Temple Mount and unless they get it there will continue to be acts of war and terrorism against its owner, Israel.

[NeverSure]

Your "news" is dated.

The Roman Emperor Hadrian created Syria Palestina in 135 AD, and it remained Palestine - in one form or another - until 1948.

One more time. Palestine is historically a region comprising all of some countries and parts of others. Jordan was carved out of Palestine by the British in 1923, for instance.

There was no reference to a nation called Palestine until Yassar Arafat with his PLO declared his group of terrorists that in 1988. For most of my life there was no country called Palestine and there still isn't. There never was.

All references to Palestine are references to an area including to the Roman one you mention which was a province created by the Romans about 2,000 years ago.

The Romans were conquerors who themselves got conquered in the area and their historically short time there proves nothing except that they were late comers historically.

[dexterm]

After 10 pages of the usual history mythologizing, semantic gymnastics to explain how there is no such thing as a Palestinian and that even though they formed 90% of the population they were somehow invisible to early Zionist immigrants, and logical contortions appealing to the supernatural that God gave Israel solely to Jews and that today's existing residents were merely the caretakers on non renewable annual leases awaiting their true masters who had been absent for 2,000 years but somehow in an undiluted lineage still held the original title deeds, even though they have just stepped off a plane from New York, Melbourne or Manchester and have never set eyes on the place before. Believe it or not, folks, the above forms the basis of Zionism.

All very interesting school debating society stuff but it doesn't count in the real world. Palestinians aren't concerned whether their ancestors only came from a region called Palestine or a country called Palestine.They know their suffering under Israeli occupation is real enough.

What does count is the 70% of the world's countries (and more to come), with Europe in the vanguard pressurizing Israel to consider some realistic options.

If Israelis don't get serious soon about discussing a just peace in a 2 state solution, they will find themselves on the end of EU sanctions, and Netanyahu's cheerleaders on the wrong side of history.

Edited June 2, 2015 by dexterm

[DaddyWarbucks]

Your "news" is dated.

Yes it is... like old wine in new bottles.

The Roman Emperor Hadrian created Syria Palestina in 135 AD, and it remained Palestine - in one form or another - until 1948.

"History repeats itself first as tragedy and then as farce."

Current events are proving how true the old proverbs are.

The Roman Emperor Hadrian created Syria Palestina in 135 AD, and it remained Palestine - in one form or another - until 1948.

Before that it was called Judea and most of the populace were Jews.

Well, you got it half right; so you're making some progress.

It was the province of Roman Judea, and had been since 63 BC when Pompeius Magnus incorporated it into the Roman Empire.

Prior to that it had been a succession of petty kingdoms founded by nomadic Jews before and after periods of enslavement in Egypt and Babylonia.

[Ulysses G.]

All very interesting school debating society stuff but it doesn't count in the real world.

In the REAL WORLD, Israel accepted the UN's offer to form their own country and the Palestinian Arabs refused, attacked Israel and LOST. They were left with nothing and have accomplished nothing ever since.

Israel has built a thriving nation with a thriving economy and one of the best armies in the world. In the REAL WORLD, Israel holds all the cards.

[Ulysses G.]

All very interesting school debating society stuff but it doesn't count in the real world.

In the REAL WORLD, Israel accepted the UN's offer to form their own country and the Palestinian Arabs refused, attacked Israel and LOST. They were left with nothing and have accomplished nothing ever since.

Israel has built a thriving nation with a thriving economy and one of the best armies in the world. In the REAL WORLD, Israel holds all the cards.

[DaddyWarbucks]

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/history/maps.html

Maybe this helps.

Excellent source of factual information.

It cuts through the fog of Zionist propaganda.

[Ulysses G.]

Well, you got it half right

The PERTINENT half. Save the rest for a game of trivial pursuit.

Edited June 2, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[dexterm]

All very interesting school debating society stuff but it doesn't count in the real world.

In the REAL WORLD, Israel accepted the UN's offer to form their own country and the Palestinian Arabs refused, attacked Israel and LOST. They were left with nothing and have accomplished nothing ever since.

Israel has built a thriving nation with a thriving economy and one of the best armies in the world. In the REAL WORLD, Israel holds all the cards.

And Israel has ignored every UN resolution since, not that they ever had any intention of treating the original Partition Plan seriously anyway...Ben Gurion admitted as much in letters to his son.

I don't want to drift off topic discussing the past. Let's look to the future. The world has moved on.

Perhaps Israel will now also accept the 2015 UN invitation to face some realistic options. Before EU sanctions make the decision for them.

Edited June 2, 2015 by dexterm

[Ulysses G.]

It cuts through the fog of Zionist propaganda.

In case anyone was wondering where you are coming from. The nut-case that runs this website claims that Israelis harvest and traffic Palestinian organs. This lie has been repeatedly debunked, but that does not stop her from repeating it or posting fake history on her blog.

Edited June 2, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[Ulysses G.]

All very interesting school debating society stuff but it doesn't count in the real world.

In the REAL WORLD, Israel accepted the UN's offer to form their own country and the Palestinian Arabs refused, attacked Israel and LOST. They were left with nothing and have accomplished nothing ever since.

Israel has built a thriving nation with a thriving economy and one of the best armies in the world. In the REAL WORLD, Israel holds all the cards.

And Israel has ignored every UN resolution since

Why do you continually post lies? This is complete nonsense - as is your claim about Ben Gurion - so why do you keep posting it?

Edited June 2, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[Scott]

Posting deliberate misinformation is against the forum rules. I suggest members exercise care with claims that either false, exaggerated or can't be substantiated.

Off-topic, inflammatory posts and replies removed.

[Scott]

I have removed a post which is off-topic.

I very strongly suggest you stick to the topic of the OP. You will note that a number of members are currently not active. I am not treading gently or lightly with those who cannot follow the forum rules.

[up-country_sinclair]

The title of this thread includes the phrase "realistic options". And this is taken from the article in the original post on this thread:

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said shortly before his re-election in March that he would not allow the establishment of a Palestinian state on his watch.

The reality is that Israel is not even pretending to be interested in a peaceful way forward. The best option is for the international community to impose swift and crippling economic sanctions on Israel. Hit them where it hurts, or they will only continue with their barbarous acts.

[Jingthing]

Anyone who claims "ethnic cleaning" or apartheid" in Israel does not understand either term. The Palestinian population keep on growing and have one of the biggest obesity problems in the world. 20% of the population of Israel are Arabs with all the same rights as Jews, their own political parties and an Arab on the Supreme Court.

I agree with that but want to mention that people being obese doesn't equate to a population getting good nutrition. It does mean they aren't starving though.

As far as "realistic" options, well I think realistically the parties involved might be better to look at working on building a base of more trust in the LONG TERM over generations as in the short term that is impossible.

Perhaps some kind of negotiation about how the conflict is presented in the education systems so there is a seed of greater human understanding on both sides planted.

Edited June 2, 2015 by Jingthing

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies removed.

[sdanielmcev]

It cuts through the fog of Zionist propaganda.

In case anyone was wondering where you are coming from. The nut-case that runs this website claims that Israelis harvest and traffic Palestinian organs. This lie has been repeatedly debunked, but that does not stop her from repeating it or posting fake history on her blog.

Fair enough about the organ stuff. But please explain how the facts on the page I posted are incorrect. Just because someone is crazy doesn't mean they are stupid. I could've posted many articles from Wikipedia stating the same, but this was more concise.

[Ulysses G.]

I already pointed out that even the first sentence was fallacious and I noticed other inconsistencies on just the first page of what is being presented as "history". I did not bother with any more. .

For example, your website says that "in 1947, the United Nations partitioned Historic Palestine, giving 55% to the Jewish population and 45% to the Palestinian population." They are trying to create the impression that the Jews would have been given more territory than the Arabs, but they purposely left out the fact that the Palestinian Arabs had already been granted 77% of the Mandate of Palestine to form Jordan.

That means the Arabs would have ended up with something like 4 times as much land - of what was supposed to be the "Jewish homeland" - if they had accepted the deal, but they refused and declared war on Israel instead. Not reporting such an important fact, on what is presented as a "historical" website, falls into the category of false propaganda.

Edited June 2, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[NeverSure]

If Israelis don't get serious soon about discussing a just peace in a 2 state solution, they will find themselves on the end of EU sanctions,...

There you go again. Your idea of a just solution is for Israel to give up E. Jerusalem to be the Palestinian capital after an international degree gave it to Israel after WWII. The Palestinians in this context are late comers having named themselves that in 1988.

Because they are Muslims who want the Temple Mount which belongs to Israel "some people" can justify anything to run Israel out of its city. It's not going to happen in your lifetime so why don't you just give it a rest?

I can't believe you think that Israel should or would give away its ancient city of E. Jerusalem to newcomers just because they are Muslims. But that's what it is if you'd be honest in your sentence structure.

You want Muslims to have the Temple Mount by any means including destroying Israel economically and politically. Let's just be honest about it.

[sdanielmcev]

I already pointed out that even the first sentence was fallacious and I noticed other inconsistencies on just the first page of what is being presented as "history". I did not bother with any more. .

For example, your website says that "in 1947, the United Nations partitioned Historic Palestine, giving 55% to the Jewish population and 45% to the Palestinian population." They are trying to create the impression that the Jews would have been given more territory than the Arabs, but they purposely left out the fact that the Palestinian Arabs had already been granted 77% of the Mandate of Palestine to form Jordan.

That means the Arabs would have ended up with something like 4 times as much land - of what was supposed to be the "Jewish homeland" - if they had accepted the deal, but they refused and declared war on Israel instead. Not reporting such an important fact, on what is presented as a "historical" website, falls into the category of false propaganda.

Okay. I don't agree, but I understand your point. I still don't understand why some deny Palestinians historical right to the land.

[dexterm]

If Israelis don't get serious soon about discussing a just peace in a 2 state solution, they will find themselves on the end of EU sanctions,...

There you go again. Your idea of a just solution is for Israel to give up E. Jerusalem to be the Palestinian capital after an international degree gave it to Israel after WWII. The Palestinians in this context are late comers having named themselves that in 1988.

Because they are Muslims who want the Temple Mount which belongs to Israel "some people" can justify anything to run Israel out of its city. It's not going to happen in your lifetime so why don't you just give it a rest?

I can't believe you think that Israel should or would give away its ancient city of E. Jerusalem to newcomers just because they are Muslims. But that's what it is if you'd be honest in your sentence structure.

You want Muslims to have the Temple Mount by any means including destroying Israel economically and politically. Let's just be honest about it.

Under the Partition Plan Jerusalem was meant to be an international city. It was not given to Israel. No idea where you got that from, since no link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine

As part of a realistic option for peace, perhaps we could compromise with all the 3 major world religions who regard it as holy, and stick to the original idea. Make it an international city...that was part of Israeli PM Olmert's plan just 7 years ago.

"Olmert essentially agreed to forgo sovereignty of the Temple Mount in Jerusalem, Judaism’s holiest site, and proposed that in the framework of a peace agreement, the area containing the religious sites in Jerusalem would be managed by a special committee consisting of representatives from five nations: Saudia Arabia, Jordan, Palestine, the United States and Israel."

http://www.jpost.com/Diplomacy-and-Politics/Details-of-Olmerts-peace-offer-to-Palestinians-exposed-314261

Edited June 3, 2015 by dexterm

[dexterm]

I already pointed out that even the first sentence was fallacious and I noticed other inconsistencies on just the first page of what is being presented as "history". I did not bother with any more. .

For example, your website says that "in 1947, the United Nations partitioned Historic Palestine, giving 55% to the Jewish population and 45% to the Palestinian population." They are trying to create the impression that the Jews would have been given more territory than the Arabs, but they purposely left out the fact that the Palestinian Arabs had already been granted 77% of the Mandate of Palestine to form Jordan.

That means the Arabs would have ended up with something like 4 times as much land - of what was supposed to be the "Jewish homeland" - if they had accepted the deal, but they refused and declared war on Israel instead. Not reporting such an important fact, on what is presented as a "historical" website, falls into the category of false propaganda.

You are distorting the stats by confusing two different plans. I will gladly debate this, but I fear we are drifting off topic. Another thread another time maybe.

Lets look to the future, not the past.

[NeverSure]

If Israelis don't get serious soon about discussing a just peace in a 2 state solution, they will find themselves on the end of EU sanctions,...

There you go again. Your idea of a just solution is for Israel to give up E. Jerusalem to be the Palestinian capital after an international degree gave it to Israel after WWII. The Palestinians in this context are late comers having named themselves that in 1988.

Because they are Muslims who want the Temple Mount which belongs to Israel "some people" can justify anything to run Israel out of its city. It's not going to happen in your lifetime so why don't you just give it a rest?

I can't believe you think that Israel should or would give away its ancient city of E. Jerusalem to newcomers just because they are Muslims. But that's what it is if you'd be honest in your sentence structure.

You want Muslims to have the Temple Mount by any means including destroying Israel economically and politically. Let's just be honest about it.

Under the Partition Plan Jerusalem was meant to be an international city. It was not given to Israel. No idea where you got that from, since no link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine

As part of a realistic option for peace, perhaps we could compromise with all the 3 major world religions who regard it as holy, and stick to the original idea. Make it an international city...that was part of Israeli PM Olmert's plan just 7 years ago.

"Olmert essentially agreed to forgo sovereignty of the Temple Mount in Jerusalem, Judaism’s holiest site, and proposed that in the framework of a peace agreement, the area containing the religious sites in Jerusalem would be managed by a special committee consisting of representatives from five nations: Saudia Arabia, Jordan, Palestine, the United States and Israel."

http://www.jpost.com/Diplomacy-and-Politics/Details-of-Olmerts-peace-offer-to-Palestinians-exposed-314261

'You are entitled to your opinion but you are not entitled to your own facts.' - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

The so-called Palestinians and other Arab governments rejected this UN plan you are talking about and instead started a war. End of.