Thai forest reclamation plan 'major mistake'

[webfact]

Forest reclamation plan 'major mistake'
PRATCH RUJIVANAROM
THE NATION

BANGKOK: -- THERE have been up to 44 cases of people being adversely affected in 21 provinces by the government's forest-reclamation policy, the National Human Rights Commission said yesterday - suggesting that the enforcement of the policy has spawned mistakes.

NHRC commissioner Niran Pitakwatchara said the number of land-dispute cases related to Order 64/2557 by the National Council for Peace and Order (NCPO) had skyrocketed within a few months of the order being issued.

He was commenting during an NHRC-hosted conference on the national forest master plan and sustainable natural-resource management by the public sector.

The number of aggrieved people "indicates that the government's national forest master plan is a major mistake", Niran said.

"More than 2 million people do not own any land, while 700,000 people do not have title deeds over their lands, but their crops were destroyed and they were forced off their lands because of the anti-forest-encroachment policy."

On the conference's second day today, the NHRC will give those affected by the policy the chance to voice their opinions on the national forest master plan.

With the help of those in attendance, the NHRC will draft a public-sector master plan on sustainable natural-resource management and hand it to the Natural Resources and Environment Ministry and the Internal Security Operations Command.

According to the NHRC, of the 44 cases of affected persons, 17 were in the North, 14 in the Northeast, 11 in the South and one each in the West and the East.

Among the more than 100 people from across the country who attended the conference yesterday was Bandita Yangdee of the Khao Bantad Land Reform Network.

She claimed there were several mistakes in the national forest master plan.

"First of all, officers at the operational level ignore the [provision in] NCPO Order No 66/2557 that spares poor and landless people from the action," she said.

"In reality, poor and landless people are those facing suppression - not the investors who owned large and vast plots that encroached on forestland."

Bandita also said the method of only using aerial images to identify disputed land in forests was problematic and an injustice to the affected people. The traces of land occupation, mostly rubber plantations and orchards, could not be easily distinguished from natural forests if looking from above, she said.

"In the South, many preserved forestlands were leased by the government to oil-palm plantation investors and their agreements expired more than a decade ago, but these plantations are still being operated," she said.

"The government should enforce the law strictly on them, rather than on poor and landless people."

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Forest-reclamation-plan-major-mistake-30260664.html


-- The Nation 2015-05-22

[timber]

Interesting that politicians can't tell the difference between rubber plantations and natural forests. Give me five minutes and they probably can.

[cumgranosalum]

Successive Thai governments have failed to demonstrate any real understanding of the issues surrounding conservation and the environment.....they have allowed encroachment to occur for decades, both by the public at large and even government agencies.........their lack of understanding is further demonstrated by their apparent "black and white" approach to the problem of encroachment. Instead of a sledgehammer approach anyone who with a true grasp of the situation would understand it is far more subtle than that and setting things to right should not involve penalising thosenwho were exploited in the first place.

[cumgranosalum]

Interesting that politicians can't tell the difference between rubber plantations and natural forests. Give me five minutes and they probably can.

The problem is identifying farmed land by aerial photography

[rametindallas]

The NCPO has, of course, achieved something. On April 24, Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha said since the NCPO came to power last May, the country had successfully reclaimed 35.34 million rai (5.4 million hectares) of forest.

The public has seen the authorities taking action against businesses accused of encroachment, such as Pak Chong-based Bonanza International Speedway and rubber plantations in the South.

With soldiers chopping down rubber trees in areas that were encroached on, investors will have to think twice before trying to claim state forestland.

And only 44 people negatively impacted? Not a bad record. According to the National Human Rights Commission, reclaiming the encroached land for the public is a major mistake. Maybe if those 44 people hadn't encroached (that means illegally inhabiting or using land that doesn't belong to them), they wouldn't be negatively impacted today. Public forests belong to ALL Thai people and anyone who encroaches, for whatever reason or excuse, should be made to pay for the restoration of the forest they encroached on. At what point do you stop people encroaching? When there are not forests left?

He believed the NCPO may have had good intentions, pointing out that the order aimed to stop deforestation, while it issued Order No 66/2557 to exempt the poor, landless people who lived in forest areas from evictions.

But on a positive note, Prayong said the government's move to grant landless people the right to use community forests was good.
"This is the right approach," he said.
In April, the PM granted 7,282 rai within the Khun Mae Tha national conserved forest area for this purpose.
The project has three phases. The government will hand over 53,697 rai in four provinces in the first phase, 51,929 rai in eight provinces in the second phase and 50,018 rai in 17 provinces in the third phase.
Prayong suggested the government should respond to land dispute problems by imposing a land tax on a progressive rate for landowners who have more than 50 rai.
Income from this tax should be used to set up a land bank for allocating land to the poor, he said

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Reclamation-of-forest-land-has-had-mixed-results-30260475.html

[smutcakes]

The NCPO has, of course, achieved something. On April 24, Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha said since the NCPO came to power last May, the country had successfully reclaimed 35.34 million rai (5.4 million hectares) of forest.

The public has seen the authorities taking action against businesses accused of encroachment, such as Pak Chong-based Bonanza International Speedway and rubber plantations in the South.

With soldiers chopping down rubber trees in areas that were encroached on, investors will have to think twice before trying to claim state forestland.

And only 44 people negatively impacted? Not a bad record. According to the National Human Rights Commission, reclaiming the encroached land for the public is a major mistake. Maybe if those 44 people hadn't encroached (that means illegally inhabiting or using land that doesn't belong to them), they wouldn't be negatively impacted today. Public forests belong to ALL Thai people and anyone who encroaches, for whatever reason or excuse, should be made to pay for the restoration of the forest they encroached on. At what point do you stop people encroaching? When there are not forests left?

He believed the NCPO may have had good intentions, pointing out that the order aimed to stop deforestation, while it issued Order No 66/2557 to exempt the poor, landless people who lived in forest areas from evictions.

But on a positive note, Prayong said the government's move to grant landless people the right to use community forests was good.

"This is the right approach," he said.

In April, the PM granted 7,282 rai within the Khun Mae Tha national conserved forest area for this purpose.

The project has three phases. The government will hand over 53,697 rai in four provinces in the first phase, 51,929 rai in eight provinces in the second phase and 50,018 rai in 17 provinces in the third phase.

Prayong suggested the government should respond to land dispute problems by imposing a land tax on a progressive rate for landowners who have more than 50 rai.

Income from this tax should be used to set up a land bank for allocating land to the poor, he said

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Reclamation-of-forest-land-has-had-mixed-results-30260475.html

Well if you believe the 35 million rai figure given the % of the country this represents, you will believe anything they tell you........

[seajae]

only in Thailand can you "steal/illegally clear and occupy" govt land and then be upset when it is taken from you and demand to be compensated. Then we see the thai human rights group try to blame the ones that are responsible to control the land be blamed for doing their job, have to wonder why they are screaming so loudly saying they should never have reclaimed any land, personal interests maybe or that of family/friends?

[LivinLOS]

Many related issues are involved here..

In many cases national parks were drawn up and included areas where people were settled and living.. At the time they were told it was just a clerical issue and to continue with their lives.. Decades ago who had formal land titles.. Now fast forward and people have lived for generations on this land and suddenly the new directive is to send them from it, of course this creates frictions and issues.

Yes there are large scale abuses and commercial interests involved who should be stopped for profiting from national park encroachment.. Theres also plenty of people just trying to live as they have done.

The time for a full scale 'magna carta' land assessment and and correct accurate titles introduced country wide is long passed.. Hey it was only 1000 years ago that westerners realized this.

[thesetat2013]

Interesting that politicians can't tell the difference between rubber plantations and natural forests. Give me five minutes and they probably can.

The problem is identifying farmed land by aerial photography

And just how can this be a problem? Any tree farm is organized and lined up with the trees whereas a real forest has trees everywhere. I would think this is an easy way to tell the difference

[thesetat2013]

So their logic is that just because their were many people who encroached illegal into the forests that this means it is wrong to take back that land. Guess what Thailand. They knew what they were doing and knew it was illegal and didn't care and made their own decision to break the laws. They deserve it taken away and deserve to be fined or punished for their actions. No matter how many are affected it doesn't change the facts that these people knowingly broke the laws

[FangFerang]

Yesterday I said that the enforcement was selective, only in red shirt regions, and the south was being let off easy.

"In the South, many preserved forestland were leased by the government to oil-palm plantation investors and their agreements expired more than a decade ago, but these plantations are still being operated," she said."

I also commented that the alleged encroachment by Suthep's son on Koh Samui was notably being uninvestigated. Today an attorney re-summarized what I said.

"First of all, officers at the operational level ignore the [provision in] NCPO Order No 66/2557 that spares poor and landless people from the action. In reality, poor and landless people are those facing suppression - not the investors who owned large and vast plots that encroached on forestland."

[hlj]

The Government needs to use GPS on the determine the forest land form private owned land. They need to send out people to survey the property before they reclaim it to assure no problems would

arrive. This is not rocket science just verify what is forest land before you reclaim what a photo shows.

[cumgranosalum]

Interesting that politicians can't tell the difference between rubber plantations and natural forests. Give me five minutes and they probably can.

The problem is identifying farmed land by aerial photography

And just how can this be a problem? Any tree farm is organized and lined up with the trees whereas a real forest has trees everywhere. I would think this is an easy way to tell the difference

As someone bwho has done a considerable amount of microlight flying, I can tell you it is very difficult to identify different kinds of land use and on top of that one needs accurate GPS as well....if this isn't done correctly it is very hard once on the groiynd to make sure you are in the right place

Any one who has bought land/property in Thailand will know that rural areas in particular in Thailand are not fully surveyed and the borders of properties are not satisfactorily defined....put this together with incomplete papers, graft and corruption and you have a recipe for disaster.

As for those who claim "they knew what they were doing".... Its way more complex than that simplistic interpretation...They just don't understand how traditionally, poor people have moved onto land to farm it....often they rent land from people who claim to own it....they have no idea whatsoever that the land is not legally farmable.... And often have little choice...either farm or starve.

On top of this, it appears the authorities are not being unbiased in who they " remove" allowing politics to sway their decisions and furthermore seem to have no proper ecologically sound plan for the future of the lkand that has been recliamed

[dageurreotype]

So their logic is that just because their were many people who encroached illegal into the forests that this means it is wrong to take back that land. Guess what Thailand. They knew what they were doing and knew it was illegal and didn't care and made their own decision to break the laws. They deserve it taken away and deserve to be fined or punished for their actions. No matter how many are affected it doesn't change the facts that these people knowingly broke the laws

Does that apply to palm oil conglomerates too? Or just the poor?

[Robby nz]

Yesterday I said that the enforcement was selective, only in red shirt regions, and the south was being let off easy.

"In the South, many preserved forestland were leased by the government to oil-palm plantation investors and their agreements expired more than a decade ago, but these plantations are still being operated," she said."

I also commented that the alleged encroachment by Suthep's son on Koh Samui was notably being uninvestigated. Today an attorney re-summarized what I said.

"First of all, officers at the operational level ignore the [provision in] NCPO Order No 66/2557 that spares poor and landless people from the action. In reality, poor and landless people are those facing suppression - not the investors who owned large and vast plots that encroached on forestland."

You didn't read the OP did you.

According to the NHRC, of the 44 cases of affected persons, 17 were in the North, 14 in the Northeast, 11 in the South and one each in the West and the East.

The south has not been ignored as you suggest.

As for Sutheps son, yes it would be great to find out why Chalerm dropped the investigation into his alleged encroachment after he suggested that others around him should be investigated as well.

[Srikcir]

There is certainly sufficient grounds by the Junta government to enforce its forest-reclamation policy against ALLEGED abuse. But people and companies should be allowed due process of law to make their case for occupancy first.

Of course Article 44 negates due process of law and allows the military to make unaccountable and unjustified actions to enforce its policies. All to often the Prayut regime likes to take simple and direct action that befits a military organization. But in the civilian world life is much more complex and laws not as clear or instructive as one might find in a military environment

As in its zeal to reform street and beach vendors, the Junta is too focus with its forest reclamation on showing it's "doing stuff" not done by previous governments and not on the QUALITY of its actions. But then what can you expect of an organization that itself has no respect for the Rule of Law?

[fred Kubasa]

" Major Mistake " number 3.462 versus Minor Mistake 11,372,489 ! Pretty good ,I'd say !

[Enoon]

The NCPO has, of course, achieved something. On April 24, Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha said since the NCPO came to power last May, the country had successfully reclaimed 35.34 million rai (5.4 million hectares) of forest.

The public has seen the authorities taking action against businesses accused of encroachment, such as Pak Chong-based Bonanza International Speedway and rubber plantations in the South.

With soldiers chopping down rubber trees in areas that were encroached on, investors will have to think twice before trying to claim state forestland.

And only 44 people negatively impacted? Not a bad record. According to the National Human Rights Commission, reclaiming the encroached land for the public is a major mistake. Maybe if those 44 people hadn't encroached (that means illegally inhabiting or using land that doesn't belong to them), they wouldn't be negatively impacted today. Public forests belong to ALL Thai people and anyone who encroaches, for whatever reason or excuse, should be made to pay for the restoration of the forest they encroached on. At what point do you stop people encroaching? When there are not forests left?

He believed the NCPO may have had good intentions, pointing out that the order aimed to stop deforestation, while it issued Order No 66/2557 to exempt the poor, landless people who lived in forest areas from evictions.

But on a positive note, Prayong said the government's move to grant landless people the right to use community forests was good.

"This is the right approach," he said.

In April, the PM granted 7,282 rai within the Khun Mae Tha national conserved forest area for this purpose.

The project has three phases. The government will hand over 53,697 rai in four provinces in the first phase, 51,929 rai in eight provinces in the second phase and 50,018 rai in 17 provinces in the third phase.

Prayong suggested the government should respond to land dispute problems by imposing a land tax on a progressive rate for landowners who have more than 50 rai.

Income from this tax should be used to set up a land bank for allocating land to the poor, he said

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Reclamation-of-forest-land-has-had-mixed-results-30260475.html

Your text: "only 44 people negatively impacted"

OP text: "44 cases of people negatively impacted" "44 cases of affected persons"

A "case" may well be a village or settlement group. In the worst scenario it may even refer to the collective incidents within a Changwat, with the Changwat being the "case".

There is no way of telling from the text how many individual people have been affected but:

"NHRC commissioner Niran Pitakwatchara said the number of land-dispute cases related to Order 64/2557 by the National Council for Peace and Order (NCPO) had skyrocketed within a few months of the order being issued."

"More than 2 million people do not own any land, while 700,000 people do not have title deeds over their lands, but their crops were destroyed and they were forced off their lands because of the anti-forest-encroachment policy."

There is also the possibility that, as per usual, the "Law" is beng used by the rich and powerful factions (in their perpetual squabbling) to further their own interests rather than "ALL Thai people". No doubt plenty of land has been taken into "protective custody".

ALL part of the usual cycle.

[cumgranosalum]

In short a black and white interpretation of the law such as it ius....is not really possible...especially if it is tainted by political bias.

Any moves like we have seen are likely to create more problems than

They solkve and the benefits to either national parks or the environment are yet to become apparent.

[xen]

Interesting that politicians can't tell the difference between rubber plantations and natural forests. Give me five minutes and they probably can.

The problem is identifying farmed land by aerial photography

And just how can this be a problem? Any tree farm is organized and lined up with the trees whereas a real forest has trees everywhere. I would think this is an easy way to tell the difference

Up to forty years ago many foresters in the west were using stereo aerial photography and infra-red photography to accurately identify shifts in vegetation , illegal crops and other environmental information in forests so why can't Thai foresters do the same. Now with GPS and satellite technology it is even easier. Is it incompetence or are they being warned off in case they find other illegal activity? .

[phoenixdoglover]

Wind the clock back 3 years.

If the government headed by Yingluck Shinawatra were taking the same actions as the current government, there would be a howl of protests from many quarters, and there would be politicians in parliament proposing to stop it. Criticism of the government would be significant. Possibly justified if in fact 700,000 relatively poor farmers were impacted.

Today there are a few activists, and the head of the national human rights agency making clear arguments against the current policies.

And the media is cowed, often only acting as a stenographer for "officials" who also happen to be Generals.

Does the current government have the capacity for self-correction?

Silly me, there will be no need for self correction. The Prime Minister is wise, and he will not stop until there is no public disagreement and Happiness has been restored to the people. Even the landless farmers, and the arrested lottery ticket sellers, and the migrants in their drifting boats.

Edited May 23, 2015 by phoenixdoglover

[rickudon]

To the untrained eye, from above many crops may appear unidentifiable but that is not the case. Most crops have an identifiable light absorbance/reflection signature which can be picked up by proper aerial photography or satellite images. This is how claims for subsidies under European agriculture are often verified. Trees are not so easy but the ordered nature of trees height and position makes the existence of a plantation stick out compared to natural forests.

[h90]

Yesterday I said that the enforcement was selective, only in red shirt regions, and the south was being let off easy.

"In the South, many preserved forestland were leased by the government to oil-palm plantation investors and their agreements expired more than a decade ago, but these plantations are still being operated," she said."

I also commented that the alleged encroachment by Suthep's son on Koh Samui was notably being uninvestigated. Today an attorney re-summarized what I said.

"First of all, officers at the operational level ignore the [provision in] NCPO Order No 66/2557 that spares poor and landless people from the action. In reality, poor and landless people are those facing suppression - not the investors who owned large and vast plots that encroached on forestland."

A few days ago was big action in Nakhon Si Thammerat, before on Ko Lippe and Ko Tao is still ongoing. I can't see these places are red shirt regions.

[smutcakes]

Yesterday I said that the enforcement was selective, only in red shirt regions, and the south was being let off easy.

"In the South, many preserved forestland were leased by the government to oil-palm plantation investors and their agreements expired more than a decade ago, but these plantations are still being operated," she said."

I also commented that the alleged encroachment by Suthep's son on Koh Samui was notably being uninvestigated. Today an attorney re-summarized what I said.

"First of all, officers at the operational level ignore the [provision in] NCPO Order No 66/2557 that spares poor and landless people from the action. In reality, poor and landless people are those facing suppression - not the investors who owned large and vast plots that encroached on forestland."

A few days ago was big action in Nakhon Si Thammerat, before on Ko Lippe and Ko Tao is still ongoing. I can't see these places are red shirt regions.

Nothing has happened in Koh Tao

[cumgranosalum]

Yesterday I said that the enforcement was selective, only in red shirt regions, and the south was being let off easy.

"In the South, many preserved forestland were leased by the government to oil-palm plantation investors and their agreements expired more than a decade ago, but these plantations are still being operated," she said."

I also commented that the alleged encroachment by Suthep's son on Koh Samui was notably being uninvestigated. Today an attorney re-summarized what I said.

"First of all, officers at the operational level ignore the [provision in] NCPO Order No 66/2557 that spares poor and landless people from the action. In reality, poor and landless people are those facing suppression - not the investors who owned large and vast plots that encroached on forestland."

A few days ago was big action in Nakhon Si Thammerat, before on Ko Lippe and Ko Tao is still ongoing. I can't see these places are red shirt regions.

it isn't the region it's the affiliations of those on the land....

[cumgranosalum]

To the untrained eye, from above many crops may appear unidentifiable but that is not the case. Most crops have an identifiable light absorbance/reflection signature which can be picked up by proper aerial photography or satellite images. This is how claims for subsidies under European agriculture are often verified. Trees are not so easy but the ordered nature of trees height and position makes the existence of a plantation stick out compared to natural forests.

no-one is doubting that this CAN be done - they are complaining that the methods used DON"T do this.....furthermore as the land is not properly legally surveyed and therefore defined it is very difficult to make sure the land is genuine encroachment - this goes right back to when and how the NPs were set up......I don't think people realise that Thailand has never satisfactorily completed a full national survey.........

[cumgranosalum]

The NCPO has, of course, achieved something. On April 24, Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha said since the NCPO came to power last May, the country had successfully reclaimed 35.34 million rai (5.4 million hectares) of forest.

The public has seen the authorities taking action against businesses accused of encroachment, such as Pak Chong-based Bonanza International Speedway and rubber plantations in the South.

With soldiers chopping down rubber trees in areas that were encroached on, investors will have to think twice before trying to claim state forestland.

And only 44 people negatively impacted? Not a bad record. According to the National Human Rights Commission, reclaiming the encroached land for the public is a major mistake. Maybe if those 44 people hadn't encroached (that means illegally inhabiting or using land that doesn't belong to them), they wouldn't be negatively impacted today. Public forests belong to ALL Thai people and anyone who encroaches, for whatever reason or excuse, should be made to pay for the restoration of the forest they encroached on. At what point do you stop people encroaching? When there are not forests left?

He believed the NCPO may have had good intentions, pointing out that the order aimed to stop deforestation, while it issued Order No 66/2557 to exempt the poor, landless people who lived in forest areas from evictions.

But on a positive note, Prayong said the government's move to grant landless people the right to use community forests was good.

"This is the right approach," he said.

In April, the PM granted 7,282 rai within the Khun Mae Tha national conserved forest area for this purpose.

The project has three phases. The government will hand over 53,697 rai in four provinces in the first phase, 51,929 rai in eight provinces in the second phase and 50,018 rai in 17 provinces in the third phase.

Prayong suggested the government should respond to land dispute problems by imposing a land tax on a progressive rate for landowners who have more than 50 rai.

Income from this tax should be used to set up a land bank for allocating land to the poor, he said

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Reclamation-of-forest-land-has-had-mixed-results-30260475.html

Well if you believe the 35 million rai figure given the % of the country this represents, you will believe anything they tell you........

so what percentage IS that?