The truth really does hurt

[kannot]

Ever heard that saying about the definition of insanity?

Isnt it being a TV member?

[Ghostnigel]

Silly question but how many hours a day do you expect from them?

Yes, silly question, if you had read post #7

[Ghostnigel]

Perhaps you should just do it yourself, or get family members to chip in. Would you do that job for 9k a month (18k for 2 people)? Would you be enthusiastic?

I mean, not exactly going to create a better like is it? Can't save for a pension, can't get private health care, can't send the kids to a private school, can't eat out at restaurants, go to the cinema, bowling, can't go on a family holiday, can't pay a monthly payment on a car.

The wage might be higher than what is normally paid for this job, but it still isn't a fair wage and represents everything that is wrong with this country and indeed so many others.

So you think an unqualified labourer working on the land should receive a salary that will allow them to send their children to private school?

Go to the cinema, bowling - have you ever been anywhere near rural Thailand?

Or even hire a lmo once a month to go shopping at Paragon, and an evening in one of the sky restaurants overlooking the river in Bkk...that should do it!

[laobali]

Lots of interesting comment here. My guess is that while Kannot thinks he's offering good wages and benefits for a decent job (and from a Western perspective he is), for the type of people who are likely to apply and try it out, it's not. It's a boring job with little satisfaction. Money and comfortable living is not enough. Most SE Asians are not used to being isolated, away from family, friends or a community of their peers. They won't stay long in a job if they do not have this; they need to be 'happy' and this usually means working as part of a group they can socialise with after hours too. He can only hope that luck will send the right couple along one day.

Which is why we provide them with as much entertainment a s possible tv internet etc free fuel they can go out on the motorbike all day to the sea or wherever, obviously after i have beaten them and they have licked my boots clean...................according to some

You're still thinking as a Westerner. The most likely candidates would be local relatives and even they won't be much different or stay very long. Without the owners living on it, the idea of buying a piece of land in the boondocks was probably flawed.

Edited May 23, 2015 by laobali

[impulse]

Given a decent location, this one here probably makes as much before noon as a minimum wage worker makes in 12 hours.

Works when she wants, where she wants, and has infinite growth potential if she buys a second (or tenth) stand and hires someone at, say, 9,000 per month to run it for her.

Or, she can take a job for 9,000 a month with no growth potential, inflexible hours, hard labor and a few perks.

I don't blame them for not working for "competitive" wages if they can make almost as much, or even more selling fruit, or fish, or fried chicken, or pencils...

[kannot]

Lots of interesting comment here. My guess is that while Kannot thinks he's offering good wages and benefits for a decent job (and from a Western perspective he is), for the type of people who are likely to apply and try it out, it's not. It's a boring job with little satisfaction. Money and comfortable living is not enough. Most SE Asians are not used to being isolated, away from family, friends or a community of their peers. They won't stay long in a job if they do not have this; they need to be 'happy' and this usually means working as part of a group they can socialise with after hours too. He can only hope that luck will send the right couple along one day.

Which is why we provide them with as much entertainment a s possible tv internet etc free fuel they can go out on the motorbike all day to the sea or wherever, obviously after i have beaten them and they have licked my boots clean...................according to some

You're still thinking as a Westerner. The most likely candidates would be local relatives and even they won't be much different or stay very long. Without the owners living on it, the idea of buying a piece of land in the boondocks was probably flawed.

Hmmmmmmmm most advice is never use family in Thailand, thankfully her ( Wife's) parents are both dead and the rest 500 miles away. Her Father was a piece of crap anyway, her words not mine i never met him.

They ask for these things when they come, they understand the job + a fair few are from Burma so are far from the family already, many call home daily and locally ie 1km away are more Burmese that they know of if they want some company.

I live on the land wife visits every 2 weeks or so.

[kannot]

Given a decent location, this one here probably makes as much before noon as a minimum wage worker makes in 12 hours.

Works when she wants, where she wants, and has infinite growth potential if she buys a second (or tenth) stand and hires someone at, say, 9,000 per month to run it for her.

Or, she can take a job for 9,000 a month with no growth potential, inflexible hours, hard labor and a few perks.

I don't blame them for not working for "competitive" wages if they can make almost as much, or even more selling fruit, or fish, or fried chicken, or pencils...

have you read the whole thread?

My staff can choose the hours they want to work, I help them with "hard labour" ( it aint that hard) they also get more than other Burmese workers and some Thais, The local builders crews are on 400 baht a day round by me and thats MUCH harder work.

Of course "she" in the photo has to get someone to work for her who wont 1 nick the food 2 nick the cash 3 actually turn up etc etc

[impulse]

The local builders crews are on 400 baht a day round by me and thats MUCH harder work.

So you're saying they are able to locate, hire and retain hard workers for 400 baht?

Kind of dashes your theory that the fault lies in lazy workers.

[mikebell]

We hired a night security guard for our moo-ban. He turned up 1st night with his own pillow/blanket. When it was pointed out that he was expected to stay awake, he quit! Most Thais in my experience are lazy. They want the money but will avoid the work.

[kannot]

The local builders crews are on 400 baht a day round by me and thats MUCH harder work.

So you're saying they are able to locate, hire and retain hard workers for 400 baht?

Kind of dashes your theory that the fault lies in lazy workers.

No......you are assuming the workers stay and work hard which is different to "hardworking" ( in fact watching some they dont), Im just telling you what the local builders pay their staff, calculating mine out they probably get more than this with free motorcycle fuel unlimited food etc etc house

Sometimes the builders wont even pay the staff as they dont have the money to do it, this is what one builder told us,he was late starting a road and said the staff wouldnt come as he hadnt paid them.....................wonder why they wouldnt come?????

Edited May 23, 2015 by kannot

[SunsetT]

I have thought a lot about this as to why Thais seem to be so lazy. Most that work, own, and run the country are Chinese Thais who have a genetic work ethic.

1) A tropical climate necessarily makes you lazy. Maybe this is why many consider most 'Black' people to be lazy. They have 'Tropical' genes. It is simply too hot and humid to work manually as those in cooler climates do. You must slow down to survive.

2) You dont need to work in a tropical climate. Things grow so fast and prolifically here you can always find something to eat. Eat a banana, catch a fish. You will never starve. Thats why Thais eat all day long. As hunter gatherers in their past, they dont eat set meals as we do, they seem to 'graze' all day long. Also shelter and clothing required has always been minimal. You dont need much to survive in a tropical climate.

3) Historically, I dont think the Thais have suffered much hardship or threat to survival. No racial persecution, No wars, No brutal regimes, Maoist revolution or killing fields (Do Cambodians work harder?). No large scale natural disasters such as earthquakes, hurricanes, major famines or droughts. The Tsunami was the exception and relatively small scale. I would argue that it is hardship and necessity that creates a 'Work ethic'.

And as Westerners we should take a step backward and ask why do we work so hard? Have we been brainwashed and conned by advertising into slogging our lives away to buy more and more stuff we dont need just to keep up with the 'Jones's'. Especially now when it is becoming clear that spreading Capitalist consumerism is not sustainable and is destroying our planet.

[kannot]

The local builders crews are on 400 baht a day round by me and thats MUCH harder work.

So you're saying they are able to locate, hire and retain hard workers for 400 baht?

Kind of dashes your theory that the fault lies in lazy workers.

No......you are assuming the workers stay and work hard which is different to "hardworking" ( in fact watching some they dont), Im just telling you what the local builders pay their staff, calculating mine out they probably get more than this with free motorcycle fuel unlimited food etc etc house

Your mistake, farang easy touch..........

Nah no pay till jobe done and haggled the price down from 60 baht m2 to 55 for concrete road with steel inside besides no one "touches" me cept the Wife.........must be the smell?

[kannot]

I have thought a lot about this as to why Thais seem to be so lazy. Most that work, own, and run the country are Chinese Thais who have a genetic work ethic.

1) A tropical climate necessarily makes you lazy. Maybe this is why many consider most 'Black' people to be lazy. They have 'Tropical' genes. It is simply too hot and humid to work manually as those in cooler climates do. You must slow down to survive.

2) You dont need to work in a tropical climate. Things grow so fast and prolifically here you can always find something to eat. Eat a banana, catch a fish. You will never starve. Thats why Thais eat all day long. As hunter gatherers in their past, they dont eat set meals as we do, they seem to 'graze' all day long. Also shelter and clothing required has always been minimal. You dont need much to survive in a tropical climate.

3) Historically, I dont think the Thais have suffered much hardship or threat to survival. No racial persecution, No wars, No brutal regimes, Maoist revolution or killing fields (Do Cambodians work harder?). No large scale natural disasters such as earthquakes, hurricanes, major famines or droughts. The Tsunami was the exception and relatively small scale. I would argue that it is hardship and necessity that creates a 'Work ethic'.

And as Westerners we should take a step backward and ask why do we work so hard? Have we been brainwashed and conned by advertising into slogging our lives away to buy more and more stuff we dont need just to keep up with the 'Jones's'. Especially now when it is becoming clear that spreading Capitalist consumerism is not sustainable and is destroying our planet.

Ohhhhhhh goodness... a well thought out response, well I could agree in some ways basically "life is easy" introduce mobile phones and cars and bikes which they want then they have to work to get them.

Personally i would be bored shirtless if I had nothing to do all day, if you are careful you can save the money which will give you more "life options " a opposed to breeding just to support you in your old age.

I have a cousin in Indonesia he is an engineer and he reports the same type of problems with staff.

Im not sure the climate has made me lazy but Im now 51 so am getting lazier but I choose the hours to work carefully and never between 11-3pm do I work at "this" time of year.

[Bangkok Barry]

We hired a night security guard for our moo-ban. He turned up 1st night with his own pillow/blanket. When it was pointed out that he was expected to stay awake, he quit! Most Thais in my experience are lazy. They want the money but will avoid the work.

Hilarious And true. I have no idea why anyone spends money on security guards in Thailand. I've rarely seen any of them good for anything if called upon. The fact that he thought you were going to pay him to sleep says it all.

[Walter Travolta]

I have thought a lot about this as to why Thais seem to be so lazy. Most that work, own, and run the country are Chinese Thais who have a genetic work ethic.

1) A tropical climate necessarily makes you lazy. Maybe this is why many consider most 'Black' people to be lazy. They have 'Tropical' genes. It is simply too hot and humid to work manually as those in cooler climates do. You must slow down to survive.

2) You dont need to work in a tropical climate. Things grow so fast and prolifically here you can always find something to eat. Eat a banana, catch a fish. You will never starve. Thats why Thais eat all day long. As hunter gatherers in their past, they dont eat set meals as we do, they seem to 'graze' all day long. Also shelter and clothing required has always been minimal. You dont need much to survive in a tropical climate.

3) Historically, I dont think the Thais have suffered much hardship or threat to survival. No racial persecution, No wars, No brutal regimes, Maoist revolution or killing fields (Do Cambodians work harder?). No large scale natural disasters such as earthquakes, hurricanes, major famines or droughts. The Tsunami was the exception and relatively small scale. I would argue that it is hardship and necessity that creates a 'Work ethic'.

And as Westerners we should take a step backward and ask why do we work so hard? Have we been brainwashed and conned by advertising into slogging our lives away to buy more and more stuff we dont need just to keep up with the 'Jones's'. Especially now when it is becoming clear that spreading Capitalist consumerism is not sustainable and is destroying our planet.

Cannot argue with your last paragraph but your 1st paragraph is so laughable . . . you say a tropical climate makes people lazy which is why black people are classed as lazy?? Well what about the ones in UK or USA that are unable to get up on a morning and do a decent day's graft? Hmmm, maybe they think that dealing drugs is much more lucrative with very little effort?

And then they start blaming everyone else because they havent had the same chances as everyone else? Rubbish. It starts at an early age at school including good parenting. If your dad is in n out of shovel for dealing or thieving, then its not the systems fault, you just fell out of the wrong womb, although that said, school can still give you a good basis for a decent future, but you have got to want it aswell. 2 way street.

[xylophone]

I have thought a lot about this as to why Thais seem to be so lazy. Most that work, own, and run the country are Chinese Thais who have a genetic work ethic.

1) A tropical climate necessarily makes you lazy. Maybe this is why many consider most 'Black' people to be lazy. They have 'Tropical' genes. It is simply too hot and humid to work manually as those in cooler climates do. You must slow down to survive.

2) You dont need to work in a tropical climate. Things grow so fast and prolifically here you can always find something to eat. Eat a banana, catch a fish. You will never starve. Thats why Thais eat all day long. As hunter gatherers in their past, they dont eat set meals as we do, they seem to 'graze' all day long. Also shelter and clothing required has always been minimal. You dont need much to survive in a tropical climate.

3) Historically, I dont think the Thais have suffered much hardship or threat to survival. No racial persecution, No wars, No brutal regimes, Maoist revolution or killing fields (Do Cambodians work harder?). No large scale natural disasters such as earthquakes, hurricanes, major famines or droughts. The Tsunami was the exception and relatively small scale. I would argue that it is hardship and necessity that creates a 'Work ethic'.

And as Westerners we should take a step backward and ask why do we work so hard? Have we been brainwashed and conned by advertising into slogging our lives away to buy more and more stuff we dont need just to keep up with the 'Jones's'. Especially now when it is becoming clear that spreading Capitalist consumerism is not sustainable and is destroying our planet.

A very reasoned response, which I like, although I would put a question mark over the last paragraph, but that's just my opinion.

I've had the chance to observe many Thai workers from various aspects of my interaction with them through the ex-GFs extended family, the "builders" and labourers who helped when I renovated one of my houses and the building activity around the apartments in which I now stay..........and in general I would have to agree that IMO many Thais are lazy.

Contrast this with the many gangs of Burmese workers working in this town and they seem to be able to handle working in the heat, and seem to work well.

I think a couple of other posters may have hit on a reason, one being that once a Thai worker has earned enough money to be able to live for a few months without working again, then they leave and idle their time away until the money is used up, then they start again, and so it goes on.

One thing that always amazes me Is that although a Thai may be out of work, there is always a place for them back in the family (close or extended) and they seem to be able to exist on next to nothing, sharing food and accommodation and occasionally being able to bring a few baht into the fold.

Perhaps it is a combination of factors, some of which the poster above suggests, plus one or two from my post. Whatever the reason, I can sympathise with Kannot because to all intents and purposes he is offering a good package, including accommodation, and I'm sure if he keeps looking he will find "the right ones".

As for the poster berating him as to his "illegal activities", where on earth do you come from?

[laobali]

Lots of interesting comment here. My guess is that while Kannot thinks he's offering good wages and benefits for a decent job (and from a Western perspective he is), for the type of people who are likely to apply and try it out, it's not. It's a boring job with little satisfaction. Money and comfortable living is not enough. Most SE Asians are not used to being isolated, away from family, friends or a community of their peers. They won't stay long in a job if they do not have this; they need to be 'happy' and this usually means working as part of a group they can socialise with after hours too. He can only hope that luck will send the right couple along one day.

Which is why we provide them with as much entertainment a s possible tv internet etc free fuel they can go out on the motorbike all day to the sea or wherever, obviously after i have beaten them and they have licked my boots clean...................according to some

You're still thinking as a Westerner. The most likely candidates would be local relatives and even they won't be much different or stay very long. Without the owners living on it, the idea of buying a piece of land in the boondocks was probably flawed.

Hmmmmmmmm most advice is never use family in Thailand, thankfully her ( Wife's) parents are both dead and the rest 500 miles away. Her Father was a piece of crap anyway, her words not mine i never met him.

They ask for these things when they come, they understand the job + a fair few are from Burma so are far from the family already, many call home daily and locally ie 1km away are more Burmese that they know of if they want some company.

I live on the land wife visits every 2 weeks or so.

Don't mean to be critical, but from what you've told us, the whole setup seems a bit strange, with you only 51, staying there alone while your wife lives in Bangkok and visits only every fortnight or so. What's the plan? I think the real problem lies with you.

[Robert24]

The local builders crews are on 400 baht a day round by me and thats MUCH harder work.

So you're saying they are able to locate, hire and retain hard workers for 400 baht?

Kind of dashes your theory that the fault lies in lazy workers.

yes daily rates for construction are somewhere between 300 and 400. And it's true, construction is a lot harder work than being a helper on a farm. And on top if you work on construction, there might be times without work, whereas if you are employed on a farm, you should have a long time, stable position.

[Robert24]

We hired a night security guard for our moo-ban. He turned up 1st night with his own pillow/blanket. When it was pointed out that he was expected to stay awake, he quit! Most Thais in my experience are lazy. They want the money but will avoid the work.

the reason why such statements are rubbish is if it that were to be true, you wouldn't have a manufacturing hub, a strong export industry, a strong tourism industry, many big successful corporates operating successfully across Asia being headquartered in Bangkok, etc etc.. There are a few things Thais get right and they don't come from being lazy for sure.

You make a personal experience and then generalize and apply it to the whole country which doesn't make sense.

Have you checked what this night security guard would make for a 12 hour night shift? 200 baht? Maybe this is the reason why he quit. He probably works day time too because he doesn't make enough money from the night shift as security guard. And you translate that in being lazy.

[SoiBiker]

I have thought a lot about this as to why Thais seem to be so lazy. Most that work, own, and run the country are Chinese Thais who have a genetic work ethic.

1) A tropical climate necessarily makes you lazy. Maybe this is why many consider most 'Black' people to be lazy. They have 'Tropical' genes. It is simply too hot and humid to work manually as those in cooler climates do. You must slow down to survive.

2) You dont need to work in a tropical climate. Things grow so fast and prolifically here you can always find something to eat. Eat a banana, catch a fish. You will never starve. Thats why Thais eat all day long. As hunter gatherers in their past, they dont eat set meals as we do, they seem to 'graze' all day long. Also shelter and clothing required has always been minimal. You dont need much to survive in a tropical climate.

3) Historically, I dont think the Thais have suffered much hardship or threat to survival. No racial persecution, No wars, No brutal regimes, Maoist revolution or killing fields (Do Cambodians work harder?). No large scale natural disasters such as earthquakes, hurricanes, major famines or droughts. The Tsunami was the exception and relatively small scale. I would argue that it is hardship and necessity that creates a 'Work ethic'.

And as Westerners we should take a step backward and ask why do we work so hard? Have we been brainwashed and conned by advertising into slogging our lives away to buy more and more stuff we dont need just to keep up with the 'Jones's'. Especially now when it is becoming clear that spreading Capitalist consumerism is not sustainable and is destroying our planet.

A genetic work ethic?

Just one highlight in a post jam-packed with laughable nonsense.

[rightlineman]

I just want to thank you, everyone for your comments, that put the "STAMP ON", so to say, on what I've seen, experienced, enjoyed, realized, the

education, etc., that brought tears (of laughter) to my eyes, especially---- SunsetT---. Hey its a great country, not yours.

[zeichen]

I know this is meant to be a Thai bashing thread, but I just think it is a little short sighted to blame the locals for all foreigner inability to work with them.

First of all the OP stated that he had the same problem with Hill Tribe and Burmese workers. The problem is a universal problem and not a Thais are lazy problem.

In this day and age when anyone can get a job at Global or some kind of shop earning the same kind of money for working less than 2 hours a day. These shops hire 40 staff members when they have only 20 customers. They get to hang out and talk with their friends all day and are only bothered to work a few hours a day. So why would anyone want to work extremely hard laboring in the hot sun for the same salary.

There isn't a country in the world where younger generations cannot wait to graduate from high school so they can go work on a farm busting their hump all day for a pittance.

Finding good staff is hard, but the problem you are having is keeping them so I suggest you look internally at the problem. The OP is not currently in the country but often foreign managers or bosses tend to do things that either shame their staff or make them feel uncomfortable. I don't know if the OP has ever raised his voice near or at, or criticized a worker but that will get them to leave quickly.

My suggestion for a job like this is to hire a foreman and have him find the workers. Pay him directly and have him deal with hiring and training workers. That way you limit the exposure you have with them. You won't need to house them or offer them anything.

Our gardener was 74 years old when he stopped working. We had him for 10+ years and our parents used him for 35 years. He ran a small crew but when he died they kind of fell apart. Unless you can find people over 50, you will never have the same commitment or humility.

Frankly your salary is just too low to keep people. Others think you spend too much but really in this day and age 2 people earning 9k a month each is min wage.

All of the agriculture is suffering from the same kind of problem.

[MobileContent]

Perhaps you should just do it yourself, or get family members to chip in. Would you do that job for 9k a month (18k for 2 people)? Would you be enthusiastic?

I mean, not exactly going to create a better like is it? Can't save for a pension, can't get private health care, can't send the kids to a private school, can't eat out at restaurants, go to the cinema, bowling, can't go on a family holiday, can't pay a monthly payment on a car.

The wage might be higher than what is normally paid for this job, but it still isn't a fair wage and represents everything that is wrong with this country and indeed so many others.

So you think an unqualified labourer working on the land should receive a salary that will allow them to send their children to private school?

Go to the cinema, bowling - have you ever been anywhere near rural Thailand?

I am living here and yes their are farmers that send the kids to Malipitak Schools such as a Catholic School. You can see daily old run pickups of 20 years of age old pickups that pick up the kids from a private school.

BTW I live in rurual Thailand and already almost 5 years.

[pitchag]

This is easy fixed give them a uniform army or police style put on plenty of braid and shiny bits to impress and don't forget the loud whistle, they will love you

[Bangkok Barry]

We hired a night security guard for our moo-ban. He turned up 1st night with his own pillow/blanket. When it was pointed out that he was expected to stay awake, he quit! Most Thais in my experience are lazy. They want the money but will avoid the work.

the reason why such statements are rubbish is if it that were to be true, you wouldn't have a manufacturing hub, a strong export industry, a strong tourism industry, many big successful corporates operating successfully across Asia being headquartered in Bangkok, etc etc.. There are a few things Thais get right and they don't come from being lazy for sure.

You make a personal experience and then generalize and apply it to the whole country which doesn't make sense.

Have you checked what this night security guard would make for a 12 hour night shift? 200 baht? Maybe this is the reason why he quit. He probably works day time too because he doesn't make enough money from the night shift as security guard. And you translate that in being lazy.

Thailand might have a strong export industry (for now, but it is facing massive competition from neighbouring countries), but the workforce is largely working for foreign corporations. They are not working for Thais so they are, in effect, paid servants for foreigners. I challenge you to name even one thing that Thailand has invented and given to the world. Their revered silk industry was rescued from obscurity and developed by an American. Red Bull was invented in Thailand but was only a small local company until taken over by Austrians and built into a worldwide enterprise. Thai food is based largely on Chinese and Indian. How can you invent anything when the education system forbids you to question anything or anyone or show any initiative. Someone on TV recently wrote that Thais are the hillbillies of Asia, and that describes them perfectly.

[MobileContent]

Lots of interesting comment here. My guess is that while Kannot thinks he's offering good wages and benefits for a decent job (and from a Western perspective he is), for the type of people who are likely to apply and try it out, it's not. It's a boring job with little satisfaction. Money and comfortable living is not enough. Most SE Asians are not used to being isolated, away from family, friends or a community of their peers. They won't stay long in a job if they do not have this; they need to be 'happy' and this usually means working as part of a group they can socialise with after hours too. He can only hope that luck will send the right couple along one day.

Which is why we provide them with as much entertainment a s possible tv internet etc free fuel they can go out on the motorbike all day to the sea or wherever, obviously after i have beaten them and they have licked my boots clean...................according to some

You're still thinking as a Westerner. The most likely candidates would be local relatives and even they won't be much different or stay very long. Without the owners living on it, the idea of buying a piece of land in the boondocks was probably flawed.

Hmmmmmmmm most advice is never use family in Thailand, thankfully her ( Wife's) parents are both dead and the rest 500 miles away. Her Father was a piece of crap anyway, her words not mine i never met him.

They ask for these things when they come, they understand the job + a fair few are from Burma so are far from the family already, many call home daily and locally ie 1km away are more Burmese that they know of if they want some company.

I live on the land wife visits every 2 weeks or so.

Their is the problem. You got yourself setup in some kind of business, let me guess you invested in it because the Mrs told you it is easy money and in the beginning I guess she was on site. Never ever setup a business with you and the wife away.

You surely didn't do your homework from the beginning and now things is going down the toilet and lets blame the cheap labor.

I have been in Thailand for almost 26 years and A) I don't invest in some kind of fish farm or setting up some kind of farming business as I am not a farmer.

My Mrs too wants a fish pond and I actually don't mind as I know it makes money, so I told her to write a simple business plan and an Excel Sheet of monthly expenses, wages, etc.

I have not got the list yet back from her and it is already 9 months but her latest plans of her is going to make a degree in Hospitality Management so I feel this has a better chance to contribute at her future, even if it cost 1.6 million Baht over the next 4 years (Dusit Thani College and Le Courdon Bleu for a Diploma in French cuisine).

It would be interested to know why your Mrs abounded her fish pond business in the country side. If your Mrs can't handle the locals, shut it down and move on with your life.

Edited May 23, 2015 by MobileContent

[Beetlejuice]

We hired a night security guard for our moo-ban. He turned up 1st night with his own pillow/blanket. When it was pointed out that he was expected to stay awake, he quit! Most Thais in my experience are lazy. They want the money but will avoid the work.

You come across as a pompous, Thai bashing, self righteous twerp with a superiority complex.

Would you work 8 hours labour per day, having to live on the land, earning $65 per week for a foreigner who has no official jurisdiction over his employees or the said land whatsoever? That in my mind almost amounts to slave labour expecting the natives to be completely committed to the Massa farang big boss man and his Thai wife.

Gone are the days of the subservient Thai workers willing to give their all for a pittance and expected to be grateful for it. Over the years the working conditions and economy have substantially improved in Thailand, most can now stick two fingers up to what the OP is offering, as I would do in that situation.

I am certain that the OP`s set up will be short lived as the authorities are no longer turning a blind eye to these practices and hopefully those with such attitudes of inferiority as yourself and the OP towards the Thais, considering them all incompetent and lazy, which is an extreme form of racism, will never prosper here.

Edited May 23, 2015 by Beetlejuice

[SunsetT]

I have thought a lot about this as to why Thais seem to be so lazy. Most that work, own, and run the country are Chinese Thais who have a genetic work ethic.

1) A tropical climate necessarily makes you lazy. Maybe this is why many consider most 'Black' people to be lazy. They have 'Tropical' genes. It is simply too hot and humid to work manually as those in cooler climates do. You must slow down to survive.

2) You dont need to work in a tropical climate. Things grow so fast and prolifically here you can always find something to eat. Eat a banana, catch a fish. You will never starve. Thats why Thais eat all day long. As hunter gatherers in their past, they dont eat set meals as we do, they seem to 'graze' all day long. Also shelter and clothing required has always been minimal. You dont need much to survive in a tropical climate.

3) Historically, I dont think the Thais have suffered much hardship or threat to survival. No racial persecution, No wars, No brutal regimes, Maoist revolution or killing fields (Do Cambodians work harder?). No large scale natural disasters such as earthquakes, hurricanes, major famines or droughts. The Tsunami was the exception and relatively small scale. I would argue that it is hardship and necessity that creates a 'Work ethic'.

And as Westerners we should take a step backward and ask why do we work so hard? Have we been brainwashed and conned by advertising into slogging our lives away to buy more and more stuff we dont need just to keep up with the 'Jones's'. Especially now when it is becoming clear that spreading Capitalist consumerism is not sustainable and is destroying our planet.

Cannot argue with your last paragraph but your 1st paragraph is so laughable . . . you say a tropical climate makes people lazy which is why black people are classed as lazy?? Well what about the ones in UK or USA that are unable to get up on a morning and do a decent day's graft? Hmmm, maybe they think that dealing drugs is much more lucrative with very little effort?

And then they start blaming everyone else because they havent had the same chances as everyone else? Rubbish. It starts at an early age at school including good parenting. If your dad is in n out of shovel for dealing or thieving, then its not the systems fault, you just fell out of the wrong womb, although that said, school can still give you a good basis for a decent future, but you have got to want it aswell. 2 way street.

....But I reckon it is genetic so it doesnt matter where you are in the World. If you have a strong work ethic it has been passed on to you genetically; it is in your genes. Of course this can be reinforced or diluted, depending on your upbringing and life experience. So u can be born with a 'lazy tropical gene' passed down from generation to generation even after u leave the Tropics. These 'psychological' genes are known as 'memes' and they pass on cultural beliefs and dispositions, etc. Another example was when someone argued on here that Thais dont have a conscience. If true, this means we are wrong to assume that a conscience is innate to all. It is a Judeo/Christian belief which has become innate as an inherited 'meme' to us in the West but not to the Thais because it doesnt historically exist in Buddhism or Thai culture. And maybe not in Asia generally. Im no expert. It is just a theory. You can take it or leave it.

Edited May 23, 2015 by SunsetT

[prestburypark]

I had a completely different experience, having our house built the team turned up by 7 am, worked pretty much non stop until 6pm. No alcohol on site and for 10 months straight. Right through the hot and rainy season too , minimum down time.

Each labourer, with building skills got just 200 baht a day.

The main contractor and his wife were onsite always and only near the end of the job when the work was mostly done did he take on other work while niggles were sorted out.

We still have a good relationship with him 3 years on. In fact went to his daughters wedding. He is considered tight fisted and hard to work for locally, but has a great reputation for providing houses with no real issues once the work is complete. I have big respect for his work ethic, he tells me he was taught to build by German builders, so there is some influence at work there, I guess.

We also paid him correctly and on time which he found to be unusual, most people mess builders around.

Our garden is pretty large and I don't fancy sweating my butt off mowing, so a neighbour comes and does it over two days for 600 baht including tree lopping, waste disposal and any odd jobs that need doing. We like to pay the people who need the work and he is very near.

The only negative thing I am facing now, similar to the OP is we are trying to get someone to dog sit and look after the house for 3 months while we are in the UK , I would jump at the chance....if it were me looking for work to house sit a comfortable place , minimum work and good wages, but no-one seems to want to commit themselves although the wages , 10k a month are excellent for here, Phetchabun.

Of course we see similar problems to the OP,s but I do intact have positive experiences and I think they should be aknowledged.

[kannot]

What are you on about we dont have a fish business in fact we dont have any business we grow some pineapples on the land locals take care of the crop our staff dont deal with them, she doesnt even work down here, sometimes i begin to wonder what some members can dream up.

Which is why we provide them with as much entertainment a s possible tv internet etc free fuel they can go out on the motorbike all day to the sea or wherever, obviously after i have beaten them and they have licked my boots clean...................according to some

ay from family, friends or a community of their peers. They won't stay long in a job if they do not have this; they need to be 'happy' and this usually means working as part of a group they can socialise with after hours too. He can only hope that luck will send the right couple along one day.

You're still thinking as a Westerner. The most likely candidates would be local relatives and even they won't be much different or stay very long. Without the owners living on it, the idea of buying a piece of land in the boondocks was probably flawed.

They ask for these things when they come, they understand the job + a fair few are from Burma so are far from the family already, many call home daily and locally ie 1km away are more Burmese that they know of if they want some company.

I live on the land wife visits every 2 weeks or so.

Their is the problem. You got yourself setup in some kind of business, let me guess you invested in it because the Mrs told you it is easy money and in the beginning I guess she was on site. Never ever setup a business with you and the wife away.

You surely didn't do your homework from the beginning and now things is going down the toilet and lets blame the cheap labor.

I have been in Thailand for almost 26 years and A) I don't invest in some kind of fish farm or setting up some kind of farming business as I am not a farmer.

My Mrs too wants a fish pond and I actually don't mind as I know it makes money, so I told her to write a simple business plan and an Excel Sheet of monthly expenses, wages, etc.

I have not got the list yet back from her and it is already 9 months but her latest plans of her is going to make a degree in Hospitality Management so I feel this has a better chance to contribute at her future, even if it cost 1.6 million Baht over the next 4 years (Dusit Thani College and Le Courdon Bleu for a Diploma in French cuisine).

It would be interested to know why your Mrs abounded her fish pond business in the country side. If your Mrs can't handle the locals, shut it down and move on with your life.

To be honest you are so far off track its unbelievable.

Let me set you straight, we grow pineapples on the land to keep it tidy, I like tidy but my main "hobby" is growing palm trees, nope not for sale for something i call "pleasure"

Fish are also for pleasure in fact we give them away to a few neighbours and the staff can have some

In time all pineapples will probably go as i plant more and more trees.

Hell my Wife doesnt even live with me down here.

Never mind keep up the as you say "guess" work