Manners

[LarryBird]

My feelings are that this sort of matter isn't addressed within their 'cultural rules'.. e.g. Don't lose your cool, respect your elders, don't point your feet, greng jai, etc. So, they either a.) feel like they can 'get away with it' in a similar manner to driving like a maniac behind your tinted windows, or b.) they somehow can't figure out that they are hurting the person's feelings..

Thoughts?

[mauGR1]

My feelings are that this sort of matter isn't addressed within their 'cultural rules'.. e.g. Don't lose your cool, respect your elders, don't point your feet, greng jai, etc. So, they either a.) feel like they can 'get away with it' in a similar manner to driving like a maniac behind your tinted windows, or b.) they somehow can't figure out that they are hurting the person's feelings..

Thoughts?

Not all Thais are the same... Most of them don't drive like maniacs, and many, if not most, are careful not to hurt people's feelings.

... Or i am just being lucky ?

[LuckyLew]

Maybe the people posting those comments are just mean people and they are trying to be mean to the girl

Perhaps they do not know it is harmful

[LarryBird]

Maugr, I definitely agree!

[Saastrajaa]

Ok, but shouldn't one be able to perceive how their words will potentially hurt someone's feelings?

The problem is, in the Thai culture the concept of empathy does not exist. They are not capable of "putting themselves in someone else's shoes." Mind you, there are plenty of what I feel are great things about Thai culture...but they are incapable of empathy (unless they learn it from another culture, outside the country). It's not dysfunctional for them except in rare cases, like the one you mention...for the most part, they don't even notice it.

This also explains how when you're walking down the street, Thais will often walk straight into you and collide with you. You know how when you're deciding--even subconsciously--what path to choose when walking, you take into account the obvious intended path of other people coming the other way, and make whatever adjustments you need to avoid them? (think about it---you know you do this) Thais can't do that...they only think about where THEY are walking, and will walk straight into someone who gets in their way. This explains a lot about the way they drive, too. Again, within their culture, it's the norm so nobody notices it...it's only when us outsiders come in, used to foreign concepts--like empathy--that the conflict comes up.

[n210mp]

Ok, but shouldn't one be able to perceive how their words will potentially hurt someone's feelings?

The problem is, in the Thai culture the concept of empathy does not exist. They are not capable of "putting themselves in someone else's shoes." Mind you, there are plenty of what I feel are great things about Thai culture...but they are incapable of empathy (unless they learn it from another culture, outside the country). It's not dysfunctional for them except in rare cases, like the one you mention...for the most part, they don't even notice it.

This also explains how when you're walking down the street, Thais will often walk straight into you and collide with you. You know how when you're deciding--even subconsciously--what path to choose when walking, you take into account the obvious intended path of other people coming the other way, and make whatever adjustments you need to avoid them? (think about it---you know you do this) Thais can't do that...they only think about where THEY are walking, and will walk straight into someone who gets in their way. This explains a lot about the way they drive, too. Again, within their culture, it's the norm so nobody notices it...it's only when us outsiders come in, used to foreign concepts--like empathy--that the conflict comes up.

You are spot on with your observations and I am happy that someone else has noticed this phenomena.

Being on crutches after an accident for a while and walking in Big C it was and still is even without the crutches very frustrating to have to avoid those who would seemingly just walk into you, it's as though they are in another world, another dimension where they dont seem to see anyone on a conflicting trajectory!

At first I was a bit angry, as I was when holding a door open and people just continuing to walk through whilst I was holding it open. They dont seem to be fully aware of what's going on around them do they?

I would not say it was a culture thing, more a lack of a culture really but I dont get annoyed anymore because if you gently remind them of what is going on in those circumstances they usually respond in a very kind and courteous manner so I dont think that this slightly eccentric behaviour is in any way malicious.

Im not sure you have pinned the correct word in using "empathy" though, more like they are just ignorant in the truest interpretation of that word.

I suppose that they could be ignorant of Empathy, maybe you are correct! 5555

[Lukecan]

It's called being honest, not having bad manners.

[daveAustin]

Ignorance, stupidity, selfishness; pick one or add another.

[NickJ]

Very well put Sasstrajaa......

[Beetlejuice]

It`s all very simple, if people don`t like the comments they receive on social media, than don`t publish anything on there.

It always bewilders me why people upload personal details and photos of themselves on facebook and twitter? And if they do receive comments they consider insulting, then they can just click the unfriend button or delete their accounts.

Being insulted on facebook can be regarded as cyber bullying, which can lead to serious psychological trauma for young people, in some cases this had lead to suicides. Cyber bullying is not exclusive to Thailand and any signs of children or young adults being insulted on-line should be taken seriously and not let get out of hand.

[LarryBird]

Did you really spend your time typing that Beetlejuice?

[crickets]

"How much is your salary every month?" my wifes uncle asked me after meeting him for 5 mins.

[HeijoshinCool]

Guilt cultures tend to be benevolent; shame cultures, self-centered.

[JOC]

Did you really spend your time typing that Beetlejuice?

Weren't you the guy, who opened this thread asking about Thai peoples manners??

Just another farang with a self inflated high opinion of himself??

[monkeypete]

Hi,

I am Thai and I would like to share my opinion from my point of view.

It depends on who says that in the Facebook. If they are very close friends, I really think that they just play (not sure it is called 'tease' in English). For example, my very close friends call me 'Short guy' but it is also because the way I interacted with them in the past. I sometimes tease him and he tease me back. So if you are very nice to them, they will not do this (call you Fat, Short, etc.).

To me, I am OK if they are my close friends because I know that they just to play with me (not serious bullying) and I know that they are good friends. But if they are not my closed friend or someone I don't like, it will be a different story and it will not be acceptable for me.

Finally, I think this is a culture thing. The way we (Thais) see this is different from Westerners.

[WitawatWatawit]

Empathy - manners - is a very personalised thing here. For example, when someone barges in and pushes you aside, their behaviour isn't really personal at that point. When you cough to attract their attention and then give them a disapproving look, then it becomes personal. Just about every time at that point you get a polite nod of the head and a "sorry". Some might say the barging in behavior is ignorance, but I'm not entirely comfortable with that as I feel it has a taste of malice.

A couple of years back I read about a Chinese author's first trip to the West. She arrives in London and goes to a museum. As she approaches the door, a little old man on crutches skips ahead to open the door for her. Now her descrption of that was delightful and telling - her surprise that an old man who is a cripple and not as agile as her should make the effort to open the door for a young able bodied person. So what made the old man do it? An innate sense of manners, lifelong training to show respect, a chance to leer at an atractive Asian woman?

n210mp uses the expression "lack of culture" for some of the behavior he encountered while on crutches. Again I'm not comfortable with that in the Thai sense as it seems to me that many Thais simply lack a sense of perception and awareness - I put that down to them being taught not to react to certain social situations for fear of creating a misunderstanding. The krieng jai element is there as well.

[Asheron]

My feelings are that this sort of matter isn't addressed within their 'cultural rules'.. e.g. Don't lose your cool, respect your elders, don't point your feet, greng jai, etc. So, they either a.) feel like they can 'get away with it' in a similar manner to driving like a maniac behind your tinted windows, or b.) they somehow can't figure out that they are hurting the person's feelings..

Thoughts?

Not all Thais are the same... Most of them don't drive like maniacs, and many, if not most, are careful not to hurt people's feelings.

... Or i am just being lucky ?

I guess you don't drive a car nor a "motosai" in Thailand and have your personal "beam me up Scotty!" transporter to take you everywhere to avoid the traffic?

[HeijoshinCool]

Empathy - manners - is a very personalised thing here. For example, when someone barges in and pushes you aside, their behaviour isn't really personal at that point. When you cough to attract their attention and then give them a disapproving look, then it becomes personal. Just about every time at that point you get a polite nod of the head and a "sorry". Some might say the barging in behavior is ignorance, but I'm not entirely comfortable with that as I feel it has a taste of malice.

A couple of years back I read about a Chinese author's first trip to the West. She arrives in London and goes to a museum. As she approaches the door, a little old man on crutches skips ahead to open the door for her. Now her descrption of that was delightful and telling - her surprise that an old man who is a cripple and not as agile as her should make the effort to open the door for a young able bodied person. So what made the old man do it? An innate sense of manners, lifelong training to show respect, a chance to leer at an atractive Asian woman?

n210mp uses the expression "lack of culture" for some of the behavior he encountered while on crutches. Again I'm not comfortable with that in the Thai sense as it seems to me that many Thais simply lack a sense of perception and awareness - I put that down to them being taught not to react to certain social situations for fear of creating a misunderstanding. The krieng jai element is there as well.

.

Interesting anecdote about the the old man on crutches.

Last week I was walking the sidewalk that spans the front of a series of shops in a strip center. A guy comes out of the next shop's front door, a good twenty feet still ahead of me. He lets go of the door, and as it closes behind him, takes a few steps. Then he sees me in his peripheral. He turns back to the door -- as quickly as he can -- as he obviously feels guilty for not holding the door for me. He opens it and nods hello.

I say, as quickly as he can, because the man is in his seventies, and on a walker.

Now, that's manners.

[MAJIC]

Ok, but shouldn't one be able to perceive how their words will potentially hurt someone's feelings?

Must admit it does seem harsh but some Thai's are just brutally honest, you're too fat, too skiny etc. Don't think there's any malice meant, it's just they presume you will be aware of their observation. 99% of the time you are aware and they are right.

I wonder if they also go around being brutally honest and saying 'blue shirt' when someone wears a blue shirt or do they only do this when it comes to something which will be guaranteed to annoy someone else regardless of where they come from.

I think you know the answer, they do it to annoy people.

It would be their reactions to the same accusations,my guess it would be completely unacceptible, Thai bashing!

[MAJIC]

The first time a couple of young men appeared to be letting an old men on the bus first,I looked over both shoulders and I was shocked to see it was me! but at the same time glad they had a good upbringing to carry on a very old tradition!

[ukrules]

Ok, but shouldn't one be able to perceive how their words will potentially hurt someone's feelings?

The problem is, in the Thai culture the concept of empathy does not exist. They are not capable of "putting themselves in someone else's shoes." Mind you, there are plenty of what I feel are great things about Thai culture...but they are incapable of empathy (unless they learn it from another culture, outside the country). It's not dysfunctional for them except in rare cases, like the one you mention...for the most part, they don't even notice it.

This also explains how when you're walking down the street, Thais will often walk straight into you and collide with you. You know how when you're deciding--even subconsciously--what path to choose when walking, you take into account the obvious intended path of other people coming the other way, and make whatever adjustments you need to avoid them? (think about it---you know you do this) Thais can't do that...they only think about where THEY are walking, and will walk straight into someone who gets in their way. This explains a lot about the way they drive, too. Again, within their culture, it's the norm so nobody notices it...it's only when us outsiders come in, used to foreign concepts--like empathy--that the conflict comes up.

You are spot on with your observations and I am happy that someone else has noticed this phenomena.

Being on crutches after an accident for a while and walking in Big C it was and still is even without the crutches very frustrating to have to avoid those who would seemingly just walk into you, it's as though they are in another world, another dimension where they dont seem to see anyone on a conflicting trajectory!

At first I was a bit angry, as I was when holding a door open and people just continuing to walk through whilst I was holding it open. They dont seem to be fully aware of what's going on around them do they?

I would not say it was a culture thing, more a lack of a culture really but I dont get annoyed anymore because if you gently remind them of what is going on in those circumstances they usually respond in a very kind and courteous manner so I dont think that this slightly eccentric behaviour is in any way malicious.

Im not sure you have pinned the correct word in using "empathy" though, more like they are just ignorant in the truest interpretation of that word.

I suppose that they could be ignorant of Empathy, maybe you are correct! 5555

This reminds me of a post I read here on this forum a few years ago.

When walking in a straight line try this...look one way and the person walking towards you will change their direction to the opposite way you're looking accordingly.

As stupid as this sounds I've tried it on numerous occasions. If you walk straight ahead you can control the direction of those who are looking and walking towards you merely by moving your head left or right. Try it, you will be surprised at the results.

I believe this behaviour is on a subconscious level.

[SoiBiker]

Ok, but shouldn't one be able to perceive how their words will potentially hurt someone's feelings?

The problem is, in the Thai culture the concept of empathy does not exist. They are not capable of "putting themselves in someone else's shoes." Mind you, there are plenty of what I feel are great things about Thai culture...but they are incapable of empathy (unless they learn it from another culture, outside the country). It's not dysfunctional for them except in rare cases, like the one you mention...for the most part, they don't even notice it.

This also explains how when you're walking down the street, Thais will often walk straight into you and collide with you. You know how when you're deciding--even subconsciously--what path to choose when walking, you take into account the obvious intended path of other people coming the other way, and make whatever adjustments you need to avoid them? (think about it---you know you do this) Thais can't do that...they only think about where THEY are walking, and will walk straight into someone who gets in their way. This explains a lot about the way they drive, too. Again, within their culture, it's the norm so nobody notices it...it's only when us outsiders come in, used to foreign concepts--like empathy--that the conflict comes up.

Nonsense. If what you said was true, Thai people would be walking into each other constantly. They don't, though, because they have a way of negotiating potential collision courses. You don't understand the way they do this, which is why you're the one who ends up having to get out of the way.

[BookMan]

I think she's just trying to point out to you how hot she is for her age.

My thoughts also. The story is coming from the mum, not the daughter.

If the daughter was so offended why would she continue to post Pics of her mum?

[northernjohn]

As the guy said, different cultural perspectives. How can you expect people to adhere to the rules of a culture they have never even visited?

It never ceases to amaze me the number of people who come to live here and can't understand it is a different culture. that means they may do things different and see things different than you. Go with the flow They were here hundereds of years before you.

[Asheron]

It never ceases to amaze me the number of people who come to live here and can't understand it is a different culture. that means they may do things different and see things different than you. Go with the flow They were here hundereds of years before you.

Well because some things in some cultures are just plain wrong or even worse, dangerous. Sure, calling someone "fat" isn't maybe that nice but other cultural "hobbies" in the world include mutilating the genitalia of children. It's very normal that children get beatings in Thailand. This is a cultural trait in Thailand and it's not ok for me just because i'm a white monkey in Thailand.

It's quite clear that some cultures are far, far, superior in their behavior against other fellow human beings.

[Berkshire]

I think she's just trying to point out to you how hot she is for her age.

Yeap, that's pretty much it. The OP bought it hook, line, and sinker. The irony of this thread is that farangs are always criticizing Thais about this "face" business...you know, not being honest and straightforward like westerners. Well here is a good example of Thais being honest, yet farangs still criticize.

FB is obviously among friends so friends can say anything. Not a huge deal. But let's be perfectly clear, OP: There is no way a 41 year old is hotter than her 22 year old daughter. Not in a million years. I don't care how much make-up you pile-on.

[LarryBird]

Well, the problem also with the 'it's cultural' crowd, is that they're the same ones that always like to say 'could happen anywhere'.. Political corruption, road side accidents, injustices in the courts, bribery, etc etc.. All of the prior mentioned problems could also be explained as 'it's a different culture.'

The example about the mom and her daughter, isn't the only time I've witnessed this sort of stuff.. I'm sure others without blinders on, can attest to this sort of behavior. The rest of you can go along about your way, thinking you're adding something valuable by the conversation by saying 'different culture'... The different part isn't that the daugther wasn't offended, the different part is that her friends said it to her.

[buhi]

My wife's daughter, my step daughter ( age 22) for a joke started giving me a massage. Fortunately my wife was in the room.

"For hells sake stop it, you are turning me on!".

Wife laughed.

[Asheron]

Yeap, that's pretty much it. The OP bought it hook, line, and sinker. The irony of this thread is that farangs are always criticizing Thais about this "face" business...you know, not being honest and straightforward like westerners. Well here is a good example of Thais being honest, yet farangs still criticize.

FB is obviously among friends so friends can say anything. Not a huge deal. But let's be perfectly clear, OP: There is no way a 41 year old is hotter than her 22 year old daughter. Not in a million years. I don't care how much make-up you pile-on.

So in which western nation is it basicly "forbidden" to critizise something "dumba** A" is doing or did because it makes him/her "lose face"?

Just yesterday the neighbor child of about 11-12 was at my house with his younger brother (about 4ish) as the younger brother wanted to play with my son (about same age). As i was sitting on the sofa "watching" Thai TV (not really) i noticed that the older brother was sticking a sharp pen in the back of his younger brother. Of course the younger brother reacted as it hurt and i ask loudly in thai "(older brothers name), what are you doing?! Apologize!". His reaction was like i wasn't even in the room. Sure, children do stupid shit in all the countries regardless of ethnicity but i have never in my life encountered (in Sweden) that the child doing something bad didn't apologize. This is a core value in western societies that whomever did something does apologize and you learn this immediatelly when you are born.

[buhi]

Yeap, that's pretty much it. The OP bought it hook, line, and sinker. The irony of this thread is that farangs are always criticizing Thais about this "face" business...you know, not being honest and straightforward like westerners. Well here is a good example of Thais being honest, yet farangs still criticize.

FB is obviously among friends so friends can say anything. Not a huge deal. But let's be perfectly clear, OP: There is no way a 41 year old is hotter than her 22 year old daughter. Not in a million years. I don't care how much make-up you pile-on.

So in which western nation is it basicly "forbidden" to critizise something "dumba** A" is doing or did because it makes him/her "lose face"?

Just yesterday the neighbor child of about 11-12 was at my house with his younger brother (about 4ish) as the younger brother wanted to play with my son (about same age). As i was sitting on the sofa "watching" Thai TV (not really) i noticed that the older brother was sticking a sharp pen in the back of his younger brother. Of course the younger brother reacted as it hurt and i ask loudly in thai "(older brothers name), what are you doing?! Apologize!". His reaction was like i wasn't even in the room. Sure, children do stupid shit in all the countries regardless of ethnicity but i have never in my life encountered (in Sweden) that the child doing something bad didn't apologize. This is a core value in western societies that whomever did something does apologize and you learn this immediatelly when you are born.

Interesting and probably a correct western obsevation. Language is a clue.

My son, Thai/English, came up to me while I was enjoying a beer at the corner shop.

He asked me for five baht. I of course asked for what. It was for a drink of orange, fine.

But I said you missed the magic word.

He thought for a long time.

Oh yes, please.

Edited May 25, 2015 by buhi