Democracy is best for Thailand's economy

[cumgranosalum]

If the econy grows, who will do the work?

Please explain?....

When teachers ask their students " Who wants to be a rice farmer?" There is dead silence and no hands go up. For the economy to grow we must have workers with full bellies. So does that answer your question? If one link in the chain breaks the chain is useless.

I think your reading o=f the situation is WAY off course........the largest sector of the Thai economy is industry. Farming a poor second in just about every respect.......and its getting relatively smaller - less and less people will work on the land in the future....many countries as they industrialise become IMPORTERS of rice - at present Thailand is one of the worlds TOP exporters of rice....so not only is the scenario you present not imminent, it also actually won't ever be that significant.

PS - If you talk to the rank and file in industry a little about where they come3 from, most will say "rice farm" or something similar. .....and almost to a man/woman they are sending a chunk of their salary back to the farm. People do not realise that farming in Thailand is in reality subsidised to a greater or lesser degree by industry in the form of salaries sent home.

[Robby nz]

For those who talk about a stock market crash under the military Govt :

http://www.set.or.th//en/market/setindexchart.html

It would seem from that chart that stocks have risen quite nicely in the last year and remained quite consistent.

The economic slowdown was caused by poor income distribution and political problems, he said. The country also faced heavy competition from Vietnam, Cambodia and Indonesia, whose economies were growing fast.

Interesting also that they should use Vietnam, a communist country Cambodia, a sort of dictatorial semi democracy and Indonesia the only one of the three which can be called a democracy as comparison of completion.

In the case of Cambodia perhaps they agree with Dr Thaksin who was reported as saying that Thailand should move closer to Cambodia's model of democracy. Wonder who he had in mind as Thailands version of Hun Sen ?

Could it be that whats really needed to bring back investor confidence is a minister of finance who tells white lies about the economy ?

[cumgranosalum]

if anyone needs another example of how a single party authority can throw a spanner in the works, just look back at the dictum about having 51% representation in company boardrooms....this resulted in the Japanese summoning a representative from the Thai F/O to explain. Japan companies form about 30% of thai industry and whereas they can handle 51% Thai ownership they certainly won't be happy with 51% Thai control.

this measure - I'm not sure where it's got to at present - is a classic example of a dictum issued without ul democratic consultation and proved to be the greatest threat to Japanese or foreign investment in Thailand for decades......

[chainarong]

Yet only yesterday some senior Thai businessmen stated that they were happy with the Junta and the way that the economy was performing under them. Now we get this. Just whom are we supposed to believe?

With the present crowd running the lunatic asylum , your cat.

[Srikcir]

From financial events that happened in the past two decades, there is a strong correlation between rising debts and economic growth. Seen from the US to Iceland to the EU.

And they are all democracies. Is it still desirable?

As opposed to Socialistic Venzuela or Communist Cuba/North Korea? Yes.

The People in democratic systems can through their sovereignty change the course of government policies and practices.

The people on nondemocratic systems can only HOPE that governments will change.

Edited May 25, 2015 by Srikcir

[trogers]

From financial events that happened in the past two decades, there is a strong correlation between rising debts and economic growth. Seen from the US to Iceland to the EU.

And they are all democracies. Is it still desirable?

As opposed to Socialistic Venzuela or Communist Cuba/North Korea? Yes.

The People in democratic systems can through their sovereignty change the course of government policies and practices.

The people on nondemocratic systems can only HOPE that governments will change.

You have missed out one more, and the biggest one too - Communist China.

And surprisingly, the US is China's major debtor.

Edited May 25, 2015 by trogers

[jesimps]

Isn't it fascinating that the Rice Scheme dreamed up by a democratically elected Puppet set the Thai Rice Market in the most uncompetitive footing (artificially higher prices) and opened the door for rice producing neighbors to (pardon the pun) eat Thailand's lunch. The number one export, shot in the arse.

It is pathetic to see these article coming out that are written in the following way "Create a headline that is absurd" then ramble on with ridiculous "proof" that says "Things that happened before the coup, are now all the coup's fault."

Don't get me wrong, I like democracy. I also like handguns. I just would not give a handgun to a person who did not understand "safety on, safety off" and even though you can use one as a hammer to drive nails .. I would strongly advise against it.

That democratically elected "Puppet" was voted for in a free and fair election. If the people didn't like the results of the rice scheme they could have voted her out the same way. However, the poling stations were blockaded and the military stepped in, to plan.

The only problem now is that irrespective of how well or otherwise the junta handles the economy, the people can't vote it out. See the difference? Dead simple.

By the way, for someone who likes democracy, you make a damn good cheerleader for the junta.

[wowfactor10]

here is why Jungta System does not work in the nowadays world :

It isolates the country only more from the rest of the world.

It can surely expect economical sanctions from Europe and the USA ,Example .upcoming Fishing ban.

Tourist numbers go down cause foreigner to scared to visit.(cant even get travel insurance cause article 44)

Foreign investments flat as can be..Foreign Companies and foreigners individuals are pulling out or wait to invest.

So a Jungta system leads to poor economical times and i sure that is not what the Thai population is waiting for!

Governments should control Armies and not the other way around..

[wowfactor10]

military gives a lot more confidence to investors than a total corrupt clueless government + shooting or burning on the streets.

From university lectures who never worked anything in their life....

No they don,t !

[sawadee1947]

"Democracy allows freedom of thought, which is necessary for the development of innovations," they said.

hahaha, yes thay is Thai democracy, but what about freedom for press, freedom to say and write what I think...?

[Alwyn]

From financial events that happened in the past two decades, there is a strong correlation between rising debts and economic growth. Seen from the US to Iceland to the EU.

And they are all democracies. Is it still desirable?

well.. yeah, of course. Particularly in the case of Iceland.

[candide]

For those who talk about a stock market crash under the military Govt :

http://www.set.or.th//en/market/setindexchart.html

It would seem from that chart that stocks have risen quite nicely in the last year and remained quite consistent.

The economic slowdown was caused by poor income distribution and political problems, he said. The country also faced heavy competition from Vietnam, Cambodia and Indonesia, whose economies were growing fast.

Interesting also that they should use Vietnam, a communist country Cambodia, a sort of dictatorial semi democracy and Indonesia the only one of the three which can be called a democracy as comparison of completion.

In the case of Cambodia perhaps they agree with Dr Thaksin who was reported as saying that Thailand should move closer to Cambodia's model of democracy. Wonder who he had in mind as Thailands version of Hun Sen ?

Could it be that whats really needed to bring back investor confidence is a minister of finance who tells white lies about the economy ?

It's difficult to conclude anything by observing just one year. IIf you look at the stock exchange value since 2011 you can see that it has more or less reached the previous level of 2013 (which is not so bad) and then tends to stagnate.

[Yunla]

Toscano, on 25 May 2015 - 09:48, said:

Since 2006 Thailand has not had a leader with business and entrepreneurial skills !!! The downward economic trend will continue until a semblance of true democracy returns , with a leader who is an astute businessman .

Does it have to be a businessman or could it be a businesswoman?

This is what the FT (The Financial Times) said about Yingluck Shinawatra on July 3, 2011

She was the chief executive of Advanced Info Service, the telecoms company he (Thaksin() founded and built into the country’s biggest mobile carrier; she was also a director of Manchester City, the British Premier League soccer club that her brother bought in 2007 and sold the following year; and most recently she has been the CEO of SC Asset Corp, a listed property developer majority owned by Mr Thaksin’s two children.

But, despite her gilded rise to the top, she commands respect in the business world. SC Asset Corp’s share price has more than doubled in the five years she has been at the helm, compared with a 45 per cent increase in the broader SET Index. She also has a master's degree in public administration from Kentucky State University.

“She was very well armed with all the available facts and statistics, and certainly very professional,” said one businessman who has travelled on international conferences with Ms Yingluck. But, he adds, “She was certainly less approachable then than she seems now.”

Ms Yingluck has proved to be a fast learner. In May, at the start of the election campaign, she was a halting public speaker who tended to sound shrill and who avoided in-depth interviews. Last Friday night, she stood on a stage in the pouring rain working the crowd at Puea Thai’s final campaign event like a seasoned pro.

She's also really good at Tetris, as we all saw at that solemn state funeral when she whipped her mobby out and starting rocking that High Score like the champ she is.

[fobuff]

Oh oh. Some attitude adjustment is required here. Only the PM can talk like this

[SaamBaht]

Isn't it fascinating that the Rice Scheme dreamed up by a democratically elected Puppet set the Thai Rice Market in the most uncompetitive footing (artificially higher prices) and opened the door for rice producing neighbors to (pardon the pun) eat Thailand's lunch. The number one export, shot in the arse.

It is pathetic to see these article coming out that are written in the following way "Create a headline that is absurd" then ramble on with ridiculous "proof" that says "Things that happened before the coup, are now all the coup's fault."

Don't get me wrong, I like democracy. I also like handguns. I just would not give a handgun to a person who did not understand "safety on, safety off" and even though you can use one as a hammer to drive nails .. I would strongly advise against it.

In order for a democracy to evolve, it must exist.

Evolve means to survive and grow. It had existed but did not evolve. So now, we need to correct the environment for it to evolve.

Suspending freedom does help correct the environment. It makes it worse. The constant meddling by the military only helps to safeguard an old power structure that is fearful of losing power. The actions of the elite are understandable just not justifiable.

[joshstiles]

communism is best for thailand...afterall...thats what they are getting

[SEEDGER]

Democracy SUCKs! I would not advise any country to chose it as a form of Government!

And by the way the USA was not set up as a Democracy the founding fathers new what a disaster Democracy was! The US was set up as a "Free Republic!"

Something that died in the US just after the Civil war. .

[cumgranosalum]

Democracy SUCKs! I would not advise any country to chose it as a form of Government!

And by the way the USA was not set up as a Democracy the founding fathers new what a disaster Democracy was! The US was set up as a "Free Republic!"

Something that died in the US just after the Civil war. .

pure gobble-dee-gook! - what do you think "Republic" means??????

[baboon]

communism is best for thailand...afterall...thats what they are getting

Really? When did the workers take over the ownership of the means of production?

[MaiChai]

China doesn't seem to need democracy to economically prosper?

Its more to do with a hands off approach by government when it comes to doing business?

Thus these so called experts are proven wrong?

Thailand is stuck in the middle between being a cheap place to make things and a developed economy with high levels of education. Not to mention a full employment, lack of cheap, educated workers, high prices, strong currency, high personal debt, human trafficking issues, etc. Lack of democracy is far down the list of woes!

[Balance]

From financial events that happened in the past two decades, there is a strong correlation between rising debts and economic growth. Seen from the US to Iceland to the EU.

And they are all democracies. Is it still desirable?

The economic growth was caused by wanna be oligarchs who illegally created paper economic bubbles to their benefit. The 2008 crisis did not just happen, it was caused by the banks because they knew that when the bubble burst, the tax government would have to bail them out, and that is exactly want happened. In the meantime millions of people across the world suffered. Make no mistake, what happened on wall street was a crime against humanity as much as what is happening to the refugees from Burma.

Household debt has been rising for 25 years in the U.S., since the early 80's when the republicans started to dismantle the labor unions in order to diminish their political power at the polls. As productivity increased, workers did not receive a fair share from their contribution. Income inequality was thereby created and household debt increased to make up the difference.

Now, despite the hundreds of millions of dollars spent by a few billionaires to maintain their power, things are beginning to change in the U.S. The American people are waking up and realizing that they have been cheated. We will see what happens in the 2016 election, but I believe that the intentional destruction of the middle class during the last 35 years will now start to be addressed.

Thailand would do well to learn from the mistakes that were made in the U.S. and try not to repeat them. But the gentlemen at the conference are correct, first Thailand has to learn how to be a Democracy and to finally rid itself of the systemic public corruption that has been institutionalized for 250 years. As we say, "the chickens have come home to roost," and it will be hard to do.

[cumgranosalum]

China doesn't seem to need democracy to economically prosper?

Its more to do with a hands off approach by government when it comes to doing business?

Thus these so called experts are proven wrong?

Thailand is stuck in the middle between being a cheap place to make things and a developed economy with high levels of education. Not to mention a full employment, lack of cheap, educated workers, high prices, strong currency, high personal debt, human trafficking issues, etc. Lack of democracy is far down the list of woes!

Again this is a false argument.... Because you consider China to have a successful economy it doesn't follow that therefore democracy is not best for Thailand.

In fact you could equally make the argument that if China was more democratic it would be even more successful.

What is undeniable though is that China consciously made a decision to liberalise their economy and to sdme extent democratise it by taking away the economic and business decisions from a central government and handing them over to the business community... Clearly a more democratic process than the one by hat existed under Mao which had resultedbin famine and stagnation.

China is also not without serious problems regarding their economy... Problemsvthat arise from a lack of true democracy... Pollution is ASN obvious example.... Another is training. To maintain high standards oif production younneedvto educate and pay a class of people who can operate both the sciences and management of an economy. These people inevitably become more politically aware and require a more liberal lifestyle. This in turn undermines most of the tenets of single party states.

If China is to continue as "successful" economy it will most likely have to address issues of democracy at some point.... If you look at China today younwill find evidence that this is happening already.

[cumgranosalum]

China doesn't seem to need democracy to economically prosper?

Its more to do with a hands off approach by government when it comes to doing business?

Thus these so called experts are proven wrong?

Thailand is stuck in the middle between being a cheap place to make things and a developed economy with high levels of education. Not to mention a full employment, lack of cheap, educated workers, high prices, strong currency, high personal debt, human trafficking issues, etc. Lack of democracy is far down the list of woes!

Many of the problems you describe in Thailand in fact emanate from a lack of democracy and the civil rights that derive from this.

One problem that Thai industry has at present is an overpaid management and an underpaid technical side... This is resulting in various shortfalls in recruiting and many trained people working abroad.

Edited May 26, 2015 by cumgranosalum

[trogers]

China doesn't seem to need democracy to economically prosper?

Its more to do with a hands off approach by government when it comes to doing business?

Thus these so called experts are proven wrong?

Thailand is stuck in the middle between being a cheap place to make things and a developed economy with high levels of education. Not to mention a full employment, lack of cheap, educated workers, high prices, strong currency, high personal debt, human trafficking issues, etc. Lack of democracy is far down the list of woes!

Many of the problems you describe in Thailand in fact emanate from a lack of democracy and the civil rights that derive from this.

One problem that Thai industry has at present is an overpaid management and an underpaid technical side... This is resulting in various shortfalls in recruiting and many trained people working abroad.

Highly paid management and lowly paid tech. The company would not be meeting production targets as the market is short of skill techs.

Either it corrects the problem or the company has to relocate in a year or so.

[cumgranosalum]

China doesn't seem to need democracy to economically prosper?

Its more to do with a hands off approach by government when it comes to doing business?

Thus these so called experts are proven wrong?

Thailand is stuck in the middle between being a cheap place to make things and a developed economy with high levels of education. Not to mention a full employment, lack of cheap, educated workers, high prices, strong currency, high personal debt, human trafficking issues, etc. Lack of democracy is far down the list of woes!

Many of the problems you describe in Thailand in fact emanate from a lack of democracy and the civil rights that derive from this.

One problem that Thai industry has at present is an overpaid management and an underpaid technical side... This is resulting in various shortfalls in recruiting and many trained people working abroad.

Highly paid management and lowly paid tech. The company would not be meeting production targets as the market is short of skill techs.

Either it corrects the problem or the company has to relocate in a year or so.

The first signs would be that Japanese companies reduce or stop investment in Thailand and if the situation doesn't improve, they might consider a shift to where they can find suitable technicians. I don't think they will close down in a hurry though - at present for example Thailand has thre 9th largest motor industry in the world....pulling out of that would be impractical.

[spidermike007]

Duh! Look at all of the non democracies worldwide, and study their economies. Only China, is a success story, and their economy is essentially capitalist in nature. Cuba, N. Korea, and so many other non democratic nations have anemic economies at best. Not saying there are not a lot of problems with democracies. But, it does seem a free and open economy is the way to go. China being the exception, for dozens of reasons.

[trogers]

China doesn't seem to need democracy to economically prosper?

Its more to do with a hands off approach by government when it comes to doing business?

Thus these so called experts are proven wrong?

Thailand is stuck in the middle between being a cheap place to make things and a developed economy with high levels of education. Not to mention a full employment, lack of cheap, educated workers, high prices, strong currency, high personal debt, human trafficking issues, etc. Lack of democracy is far down the list of woes!

Many of the problems you describe in Thailand in fact emanate from a lack of democracy and the civil rights that derive from this.

One problem that Thai industry has at present is an overpaid management and an underpaid technical side... This is resulting in various shortfalls in recruiting and many trained people working abroad.

Highly paid management and lowly paid tech. The company would not be meeting production targets as the market is short of skill techs.

Either it corrects the problem or the company has to relocate in a year or so.

The first signs would be that Japanese companies reduce or stop investment in Thailand and if the situation doesn't improve, they might consider a shift to where they can find suitable technicians. I don't think they will close down in a hurry though - at present for example Thailand has thre 9th largest motor industry in the world....pulling out of that would be impractical.

If you are to use Japanese salary for their management staff as a comparison to local tech wages, then you would forever feel that wages paid to Thais would be low.

You need to compare local to local.

A worker in 7-eleven in Japan earns about 40k baht a month. How much does a 7-eleven worker here earns?

[billd766]

How can Thailand have democracy when an ex general installs himself as Thailands self elected PM ???????

How could Thailand have democracy under the last PTP government which was run by a convicted criminal fugitive living offshore? You remember the one who installed his "clone" who had absolutely NO political experience as the PM.

[givenall]

Fair. What's wrong with these people. How can monopoly create Fair economic development. Unless you are talking about for elites only.

[cumgranosalum]

How can Thailand have democracy when an ex general installs himself as Thailands self elected PM ???????

How could Thailand have democracy under the last PTP government which was run by a convicted criminal fugitive living offshore? You remember the one who installed his "clone" who had absolutely NO political experience as the PM.

you might want to check the economic record of previous administrations before spouting off stuff that is a gross misrepresentation of the reality....but then I suppose you wouldn't know things like that?