Thailand Brit murder suspects 'still waiting' on evidence review

[jdinasia]

An amazing amount of cherry picking in the post above.

[IslandLover]

AleG, I really haven't a clue about what you are referring to, but if the only "fact" you can produce is a conversation between CSILA and Sean McAnna, then there's nothing unusual about that. I think most on here are aware that CSILA (presumably your "conspiracy theorists") during the course of their "investigations", managed to contact not only McAnna but also some guy called Tom who is pictured with Hannah in CCTV footage the night she was murdered. Tom was quite happy to answer the questions put to him.

"AleG, I really haven't a clue about what you are referring to"

You don't?

"but if the only "fact" you can produce is a conversation between CSILA and Sean McAnna, then there's nothing unusual about that. I think most on here are aware that CSILA (presumably your "conspiracy theorists") during the course of their "investigations", managed to contact not only McAnna but also some guy called Tom who is pictured with Hannah in CCTV footage the night she was murdered. Tom was quite happy to answer the questions put to him."

So you do...

That you consider cyberstalking as being "nothing unusual" really speaks volumes about yourself.

Oh dear, here we go again . By "nothing unusual" I was actually implying that the so-called "fact" that you appear to know is common knowledge. It pertains to CSILA and them alone. Nothing new there.

How this translates as me considering cyberstalking as "nothing unusual" is beyond my understanding. It is downright insulting and has reminded me again why I put you on "ignore". For what it's worth, I would never consider contacting anybody closely associated with the victims of this crime.

[jimmybkk]

An amazing amount of cherry picking in the post above.

Nope... try reading it again and what it was in reply to. The cherry picking was in Mr Crab's post...

[berybert]

Does anyone recall that police put bloody clothes in davids travel mates luggage?

Nope.

Didn't happen

This is where you always let yourself down.

Of course you are right it didn't happen. The police put muddy trousers/shorts in Davids travel mates luggage. They thought the mud was blood.

Is that clearer now ?

[berybert]

I guess the defense could contact David's mobile phone operator and find out if, where and when David's phone was used after his death.

Wouldn't it be (un)surprising if it was found to have been used in the island police portacabin.

[ScarpoFongness4U]

If David Miller's and or Hannahs Facebook page is till up then it is my belief they should be contacted and it be urgently suggested that if they have any evidence against anyone other than the accused that they put it in play.

If there isn't any pictures of people who say they weren't there but, were actually there, this is evidence that should get to the defense team today.

The B2 are going to hang otherwise

[JLCrab]

It will be interesting to see if the friends of the deceased will be called as witnesses. If there was an altercation in the bar as reported, then one of them, maybe more witnessed it. One would hope the friends would want the right people punished even though it won't bring the victims back. You'd hope also that the family would support the defence having access to everything necessary for a fair trial too, unless of course they are 100% assured that the Burmese men are guilty of killing their children.

There has been ongoing coverage of this case by the British tabloids, The Guardian, The Telegraph, and the BBC since last September. If there are friends of the late Ms. Witheridge or other persons on-site who observed anything as above, they have as yet chosen for some reason not to tell their story publicly.

It seems you are choosing your words carefully - catsanddogs posted: "It will be interesting to see if the friends of the deceased will be called as witnesses."

Your reply: "If there are friends of the late Ms. Witheridge or other persons on-site who observed anything as above, they have as yet chosen for some reason not to tell their story publicly."

It is very sad that there were 2 young people who lost their lives that night. Why would you choose to disregard statements released by friends of the late Mr. Miller?

You have mentioned on several occasions that if aspects of the investigation are amiss you would find it surprising that no friends of the deceased have come forward to offer their own account of events that would contradict the official account of events.

Well, in fact there have been statements released by a friend of the deceased, who was on-site and who did tell their story - Sean Mcanna, who was a friend of David Miller said:

"...no one believes it was the Burmese guys and anyone would be stupid to even consider it."

"Anybody with half a brain knows it would always be blamed on Burmese."

"But the fact I was threatened by family of the AC owner and by the owner of 'in touch' was (in my eyes) a good lead for starting the investigation. Unfortunately, even though I said to the papers that they need to look for the 3 guys who haven't shown up for work at AC since it happened. Although I said that "Burmese guys will be blamed" and that "they won't let Thai people go down for the sake of the tourist industry", and even though everyone said the same, the police went ahead and did it anyway"

So I guess if I were also to choose my words carefully then I would not be lying if I said that every single friend of the deceased who was on-site and has told their story about what actually happened that night and who they believed was guilty of committing these murders, based on what they saw and heard has stated categorically that they do not believe that the Burmese are the real killers...

From the above: Why would you choose to disregard statements released by friends of the late Mr. Miller? Because I was specifically referring to the friends of the late Ms. Witheridge who might have noticed their friend in the company of a Thai male person let alone being confronted with hostility by a Thai male person.

So you can choose what ever words you like. I'll stick with mine.

[ScarpoFongness4U]

I would agree, the friends of Hannah have much likelier reports to make/ although, davids travel mate may know more than we know,

Let's face it the RTP had him a prime suspect and wasn't he the one that was almost killed on his way off the island ?

[JLCrab]

I would agree, the friends of Hannah have much likelier reports to make/ although, davids travel mate may know more than we know,

Let's face it the RTP had him a prime suspect and wasn't he the one that was almost killed on his way off the island ?

So he says.

[jaidam]

I would agree, the friends of Hannah have much likelier reports to make/ although, davids travel mate may know more than we know,

Let's face it the RTP had him a prime suspect and wasn't he the one that was almost killed on his way off the island ?

So he says.

That plainclothes police were chasing Chris Ware through the streets of Bangkok had been reported in an international newspaper. What I have not seen adequately explained, is how the 2 Burmese were able to get Bangkok police to hassle the initial scapegoat. It is almost as if the B2 are influential players, or something has gone badly wrong with the application of logic in the investigation.

[ScarpoFongness4U]

So, the B2/ were cleared before they weren't

[IslandLover]

I would agree, the friends of Hannah have much likelier reports to make/ although, davids travel mate may know more than we know,

Let's face it the RTP had him a prime suspect and wasn't he the one that was almost killed on his way off the island ?

Not quite almost killed, but certainly harassed by dubious characters, and a girl who was with the Ware brothers in BKK confirms it, as does a report in the Jersey Evening Post.

Edited June 16, 2015 by IslandLover

[JLCrab]

I would agree, the friends of Hannah have much likelier reports to make/ although, davids travel mate may know more than we know,

Let's face it the RTP had him a prime suspect and wasn't he the one that was almost killed on his way off the island ?

Not quite almost killed, but certainly harassed by dubious characters, and a girl who was with the Ware brothers in BKK confirms it, as does a report in the Jersey Evening Post.

The Jersey Evening Post article of 22 SEP 2014 refers to the 22 SEP 2014 article in the Daily Mail which is here (you can get it if you put Sean McAnna Koh Tao into Google search)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2765131/British-man-flees-Thai-island-tourists-murdered-claiming-life-risk-mafia-killed.html

That Daily Mail article relates Mr. McAnna's narrative of events however the newspaper article neither confirms nor corroborates anything Mr. McAnna had to say.

Edited June 16, 2015 by JLCrab

[IslandLover]

I would agree, the friends of Hannah have much likelier reports to make/ although, davids travel mate may know more than we know,

Let's face it the RTP had him a prime suspect and wasn't he the one that was almost killed on his way off the island ?

Not quite almost killed, but certainly harassed by dubious characters, and a girl who was with the Ware brothers in BKK confirms it, as does a report in the Jersey Evening Post.

The Jersey Evening Post article of 22 SEP 2014 refers to the 22 SEP 2014 article in the Daily Mail which is here (you can get it if you put Sean McAnna Koh Tao into Google search)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2765131/British-man-flees-Thai-island-tourists-murdered-claiming-life-risk-mafia-killed.html

That Daily Mail article relates Mr. McAnna's narrative of events however the newspaper article neither confirms nor corroborates anything Mr. McAnna had to say.

I was not talking about Sean McAnna, I was talking about Chris Ware who was David Miller's travelling companion and a suspect at the time. The report in the Jersey Evening Post came from one of Chris Ware's friends (not the girl who was with the Ware brothers in BKK), so that's two people who confirm the story.

Edited June 16, 2015 by IslandLover

[JLCrab]

My apologies -- I didn't realize Mr. Ware was almost killed when leaving the island.

[IslandLover]

My apologies -- I didn't realize Mr. Ware was almost killed when leaving the island.

He wasn't almost killed when leaving the island! He was chased and harassed in the streets of Bangkok by dubious characters on motorbikes. This was before the RTP allegedly stopped him boarding a flight back to the U.K. at BKK airport and asked him to return to KT for further questioning.

[boomerangutang]

So, the B2/ were cleared before they weren't

It appears that way. Though, with reams of other info which may be pertinent to this case, RTP are very picky about what they reveal and what they must hide. At least two dragnets at KT, days after the crime, forced many migrants to be DNA tested. Surely, the 2 scapegoats were among those tranches. All were officially announced to be clear - no matches. Then it was back to looking at the suspects which most of the evidence (running man video, etc) pointed to. Oh, but wait. By that time, the Headman, Mon, and Mon's police friends, top brass in Bangkok switched in to emergency mode, and convinced the RTP that looking closely at Thais and/or anyone connected to influential people - was out of bounds. So, the police quickly shifted to looking again only at impoverished Burmese migrants. And that's a major reason why the whole smelly case 'is in a hole where the sun don't shine.'

Thai officials are digging themselves in deeper, week by week. There is a way toward truth and justice, but Thai officialdom doesn't even want to know about that route.

Edited June 16, 2015 by boomerangutang

[JLCrab]

And as I posted yesterday, as persons were still able to leave the island the morning of September 15, 201, those who committed the crimes may have been other foreign tourists who calmly checked out of their hotel and left the island that morning.

18 SEP 2014 (BBC south-east Asia correspondent Jonathan Head) said investigators had several problems, including that the crime scene was not sealed off and people were not stopped from leaving Koh Tao after the killings.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-29249129

[sartoric]

And as I posted yesterday, as persons were still able to leave the island the morning of September 15, 201, those who committed the crimes may have been other foreign tourists who calmly checked out of their hotel and left the island that morning.

18 SEP 2014 (BBC south-east Asia correspondent Jonathan Head) said investigators had several problems, including that the crime scene was not sealed off and people were not stopped from leaving Koh Tao after the killings.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-29249129

[sartoric]

And, as I posted the day before yesterday Mr Crab, I can't believe that tourists who are on holiday would commit such an horrific crime. Did you see the crime scene photos ?

Far more likely IMO that the crime was committed by an influential gang of local men with a sense of entitlement, past form, and who know they can pay their way out of justice.

[JLCrab]

And, as I posted the day before yesterday Mr Crab, I can't believe that tourists who are on holiday would commit such an horrific crime. Did you see the crime scene photos ?

Far more likely IMO that the crime was committed by an influential gang of local men with a sense of entitlement, past form, and who know they can pay their way out of justice.

So you can't believe it but you will believe that the crime could have been committed by someone who maybe wasn't even there.

[sartoric]

"Maybe" is your key word.

I believe he was there. Didn't the father make conflicting statements about his whereabouts, wasn't the girlfriend unable to find him, didn't the cousin state she was with him, but later she proved to be in Pattaya ?

The so called evidence that he was in Bangkok is rubbery IMO.

Why did he not come forward for several days.....scratches, bruising ?

What about the other goons - stingray tail ring man, and those posing with hoes in the days after the crime. Why haven't they been investigated ?

[JLCrab]

There is not one piece of solid evidence that the alternative suspect numero uno was there on the island regardless of what you choose to believe

[boomerangutang]

"Maybe" is your key word.

I believe he was there. Didn't the father make conflicting statements about his whereabouts, wasn't the girlfriend unable to find him, didn't the cousin state she was with him, but later she proved to be in Pattaya ?

The so called evidence that he was in Bangkok is rubbery IMO.

Why did he not come forward for several days.....scratches, bruising ?

What about the other goons - stingray tail ring man, and those posing with hoes in the days after the crime. Why haven't they been investigated ?

All good points.

[sartoric]

Possibly not Mr Crab, and that's what several million baht can buy.

[JLCrab]

Possibly not Mr Crab, and that's what several million baht can buy.

This gets to be so convoluted I don't know where to start. A trial starts in 3 weeks. If someone wants to prove that someone was in a specific place at a specific time, then they can do so. It is not up to that person to prove that he wasn't

It doesn't take much money to prove someone wasn't there if he wasn't there.

Edited June 16, 2015 by JLCrab

[AleG]

Does anyone recall that police put bloody clothes in davids travel mates luggage?

Nope.

Didn't happen

This is where you always let yourself down.

Of course you are right it didn't happen. The police put muddy trousers/shorts in Davids travel mates luggage. They thought the mud was blood.

Is that clearer now ?

Please don't try to clarify things, you have already been explained that this "The police put muddy trousers/shorts in Davids travel mates luggage." is false; either that didn't get through or you persist on peddling false information; which by the way is against forum rule #2 "You will not use ThaiVisa.com to post any material which is knowingly or can be reasonably construed as false"

[AleG]

Whether the initial suspects were migrant workers or farang is moot. Migrants are going to be pointed at in beach crimes - as a knee jerk reaction by RTP. It's like, whenever there's a coup d'etat in Thailand, the army brass immediately announce the Constitution will be re-written - it's the Thai way of thinking. The important issue is the initial PRIME SUSPECTS were Mon and Nomsod, in that order. Mon was taken by cops and questioned for 3 hours. It would be interesting to get a video or audio or written transcript of that, but it won't happen. Nomsod was declared THE prime suspect just days after the crime, and (surprise!) cops couldn't find him for additional days.

The whole time Burmese were being rounded up by the dozens, Nomsod was claiming he didn't have to give DNA. Ever since that time, Nomsod's DNA has been suspect. The press corps event (NS's DNA sample) didn't impress anyone. I file it in the same category as the reenactment: silliness personified. That's why I think the court decided to switch tracks and postpone the Defense's request to re-examine DNA. The RTP, the headman's people, and the prosecutors will continue to do all they can to obfuscate the DNA trail. Mark my words.

I don't think their main motivation is to nail the B2. I think it's to continue to shield the H's people any way possible. Plus, by keeping the discussions and focus on the B2's plight, it naturally diverts attention away from those who should be prime suspects. Please don't leave the topic. We need to continue to exert pressure toward a semblance of truth & justice. We may not have any overall effect, but then again, maybe we do affect the events in some small ways.

So, your whole thing hinges on those two men being THE initial prime suspects?

17 Sep 2014 "A British man has become the prime suspect for the murder of two British tourists and his arrest is imminent, a senior Thai police officer told The Telegraph on Wednesday."

Now, of course, you'll invent some other self serving excuse to explain that away.

Incidentally, just declaring things that invalidate your arguments to be "moot" doesn't cut it.

"I don't think their main motivation is to nail the B2. I think it's to continue to shield the H's people any way possible"

No, that's just paranoia speaking; try reality, it may not feel so comfortable, but it is what it is.

I can see the denial has kicked in....

[sartoric]

No, but it takes a lot of money to buy off those who might have proof that he was there.

[Linky]

I have no idea who did this crime. It could well have been the 2 in custody, however the way the RTP has bungled the case the 2 would be acquitted in any reasonable court. Even if guilty.