NSA surveillance powers set to lapse with no deal in US Senate

[webfact]

NSA surveillance powers set to lapse with no deal in Senate
ERICA WERNER, Associated Press
KEN DILANIAN, Associated Press

WASHINGTON (AP) — The National Security Agency will lose its authority at midnight to collect Americans' phone records in bulk, after an extraordinary Sunday Senate session failed to produce a deal to extend the fiercely contested program.

Intelligence officials warned that the outcome amounts to a win for extremist groups. But civil liberties groups applauded the demise, at least temporarily, of the once-secret program made public by NSA contractor Edward Snowden, which critics say is an unconstitutional intrusion into Americans' privacy.

The program is all but certain to be revived in a matter of days, although it also looks certain to be completely overhauled under House of Representatives-passed legislation that Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell reluctantly blessed Sunday evening.

With most senators opposed to extending current law unchanged, even for a short time, McConnell said the House bill was the only option left, other than letting the program die off. The Senate voted 77-17 to move ahead on the House-passed bill.

But no final action was expected before Sunday's midnight deadline after McConnell's fellow Kentucky Republican Sen. Rand Paul said he would assert his prerogatives under Senate rules to delay a final vote for several days.

"This is what we fought the revolution over, are we going to so blithely give up our freedom? ... I'm not going to take it anymore," Paul said.

McConnell countered: "We shouldn't be disarming unilaterally as our enemies grow more sophisticated and aggressive, and we certainly should not be doing so based on a campaign of demagoguery and disinformation launched in the wake of the unlawful actions of Edward Snowden."

Fellow Republicans exited the chamber en masse when Paul stood up to speak after the Senate's vote on the House bill.

In addition to the bulk phone collections provision, two lesser-known Patriot Act provisions also lapse at midnight: One, so far unused, helps track "lone wolf" terrorism suspects unconnected to a foreign power. The second allows the government to eavesdrop on suspects who continually discard their cellphones.

The House bill, backed by the White House, extends those two provisions unchanged, while remaking the bulk collection program over six months by giving phone companies the job of hanging onto records the government could search with a warrant.

CIA Director John Brennan was among those warning that letting the authorities lapse, even for a time, will make America less safe.

Brennan, speaking on CBS, bemoaned "too much political grandstanding and crusading for ideological causes that have skewed the debate on this issue" and said the tools are important to American lives.

For Paul, the issue represents a potent political opportunity, and his presidential campaign has been sending out numerous fundraising appeals focused on it.

The NSA already has begun winding down the phone collection program in anticipation that it will not be renewed. To ensure the program has ceased by the time authority for it expires at midnight, the agency planned to begin shutting down the servers that carry it out at 3:59 p.m. Sunday. That step was reversible for four hours but after that, rebooting would take about a day.


-- (c) Associated Press 2015-06-01

[HeijoshinCool]

The NSA already has begun winding down the phone collection program in anticipation that it will not be renewed.

Yeah, right.

[CWMcMurray]

This lapse is a good thing.

Requiring a warrant before making this information available is a good thing

[Credo]

So now everyone from Google to the Chinese gov't will have everyone's information, but not the US gov't.

[stoli]

So now everyone from Google to the Chinese gov't will have everyone's information, but not the US gov't.

I say we start with all of your phone records as a start. Put them on the internet for everyone to review. Let your wife and your boss see who you call, maybe even what you say. Hell, also where you go, and what you do when you are there. Good for you for understanding how this is healthy, for our government to be with us every moment of every day. I will pass thank you.....My life is my life, not yours or theirs.

[Loptr]

More smoke and mirrors... Obama will sign an order before midnight to extend the program without Congressional approval... Done and dusted...

[BuaBS]

And this is just about spying on US citizens,( which will never stop ) , for the rest of the world it just goes on and on.

Two years after Snowden , and not much has changed for encryption, secure communication and privacy . Spy agencies will never stop . We need better , easier to use and free software to counter them. But who cares ? Billions on social networks & sharing sites don't give a hoot about privacy.

If you've got nothing to hide , you're not living right.

Edited June 1, 2015 by BuaBS

[BudRight]

More smoke and mirrors... Obama will sign an order before midnight to extend the program without Congressional approval... Done and dusted...

He can sign whatever he wants, and would probably avoid prison due to executive immunity, but it becomes illegal on midnight Monday EST. He would surely be impeached and be kicked out of office for such a thing. You can bet the Republican Congress would do it if he committed such an outrageous violation of the Law.

Edited June 1, 2015 by BudRight

[thaibeachlovers]

And this is just about spying on US citizens,( which will never stop ) , for the rest of the world it just goes on and on.

Two years after Snowden , and not much has changed for encryption, secure communication and privacy . Spy agencies will never stop . We need better , easier to use and free software to counter them. But who cares ? Billions on social networks & sharing sites don't give a hoot about privacy.

If you've got nothing to hide , you're not living right.

Anyone that thinks anything they put on the internet, say on the phone, etc etc is private is a fool. Small people are listening and reading.

I trust the government to act in the interests of the citizens, NOT.

[Srikcir]

Ingenuity is often motivated by nescessity.

Take the Patriot Act away from the NSA and it will find a more devious and legally vague process for intelligence gathering.

[thaibeachlovers]

Ingenuity is often motivated by nescessity.

Take the Patriot Act away from the NSA and it will find a more devious and legally vague process for intelligence gathering.

You think they don't already have such?

[arjunadawn]

Nonsense, there is nothing in human history to suggest that Pandora's Box could ever be closed again. The slippery slope to tyranny in the US is now an abyss, and the falling will continue.

Illegal, unconstitutional spying will continue under the stalking horse of "international terrorist" or "criminal" under Executive Order 12333, Section 2.3.c.

Not one single thing will change. I don't state this because I am jaded. It is a fact.

[ALLSEEINGEYE]

I saw a movie last night called Survivor (not a very good movie). At the end of the movie it stated that since 9/11 over 53 acts of terrorism have been prevented in New York alone. I would wager that many of these come from this type of surveillance. I don't like the idea of the government spying on it's citizens, and I am sure it is used for other purposes as well such as industrial espionage.

But when you weigh our the good versus the bad I would rather have my conversations monitored than have my friends and family killed by terrorists.Maybe if this was done in a more transparent and controlled way, with some oversight and checks and balances, then it could be used more specifically to thwart terrorist attack. Then go ahead and monitor all the calls and emails you want.

Just my 2 cents.

[arjunadawn]

There is not one single terrorist event that has been thwarted in the US due to this type of surveillance.

You cannot spy on people in a controlled or transparent way, just like you cannot lie to people in a controlled or transparent way, or rape people in a controlled and transparent way. When there is data collection, online social monitoring, license plate tracking, seamless video monitoring from ATM to mall to traffic light to school to home, etc, etc, ad infintium, you may have many things but only under extreme exercise of language do you have a free people, a democratic process, or liberty in any meaningful sense of the word. The Rights you have may appear to be unchanged, they may practically appear the same, names may not have changed, but surely your Rights are no longer Natural but fiat license from the State alone.

There is a reason people race to the refuge of the familiar quote regarding those who exchange their freedoms for security loose both, and deserve neither- it is because it is a timeless truth! America has allowed the most central, most vital element of what it remains to be free to be taken away and replaced with an imposter, currently aping its former behaviors, but it is an imposter freedom. There has never been a single example in the human drama that suggests such harnessed power is a good idea in the hands of the State or any for that matter. There has never been a single time such things were stuffed back into Pandora's Box.

Again, no single terrorist attack has ever been thwarted by this mechanism of birth to grave tracking (this includes in the home, upstairs, in the bed, etc). It should be noted that nearly all or all of every single thwarted terrorist attack on the US recently was either being managed by the government as a sting or monitored by the government, or individuals monitored by the government (this goes directly back to World Trade Center 92, an FBI operation where they accidentally get real explosives get to the sting targets). You can interpret that as you wish but the sheer number of these stings is stunning even on its face value, without further analysis. In what world is such a thing possible? The numbers against this being chance are exceptional. Perhaps you think this an absurd introduction into a topic regarding NSA spying? However, this is the argument raised by many- "the NSA spying keeps us safe." It is a bold faced lie. It has already been demonstrably proven the then NSA director lied when he stated 50 terrorist attacks (0r 54) have been prevented by this program. Indeed, the entire genesis and buildup and followup to Snowden has been a web of lies and sleight of hand. Moreover, this program will continue unabated as it is governed by both US Code and Executive Order 12333, Section 2.3.c. (Note: The fictitious mechanism by which Bin Laden was ostensibly tracked down never required such laws as they were overseas).

It is now my opinion that the US government is as much a danger to the constitutional republic of the USA as IS, AQ, islamic jihad, China, and others. The difference is the others do not wrap themselves in apple pie and the American flag.

http://www.propublica.org/article/claim-on-attacks-thwarted-by-nsa-spreads-despite-lack-of-evidence. There is a point that sting operations can be argued to be an effective tool in law enforcement arsenal but at a certain time it takes on an Orwellian Hollywood choreography. It seems the single thing the FBI excels at is pretending to also hate American, and solicit others to their perspective; at what point does that viral perspective infect the agency? Once they are successful, they arrest them. It just does not feel like law enforcement. It feels like... entrapment, an orchestra... choreography.

Note: That the tendency if not outright design of government to overstep its authorities and digress is already palpably evident in the government handling of everything from the EPA encroaching on rights to the NSA strong-arming carriers to the IRS blackballing citizens to the government using illegals as weapons against its own citizens, to schools being forcibly fed political and social engineering curricula. That the US is the biggest threat to freedom is hardly debatable. Indeed, a recent poll suggests Americans agree with me. The only real question remains, from a defense point of view, are these the unrelated acts of the Regulatory State or design of the Executive Branch. This is the... Leviathan. From a citizen point of view it makes no matter how this came to pass or how it stalks, it is evil, illegal, and the antithesis of everything that ever made that nation once great.

"I am from the government and I am here to help."

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2015/01/15/us/ap-us-terror-stings-glance.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/29/opinion/sunday/terrorist-plots-helped-along-by-the-fbi.html

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/21/government-agents-directly-involved-us-terror-plots-report

http://news.yahoo.com/fbi-pushed-muslims-plot-terrorist-attacks-rights-report-160325158.html

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/01/16/latest-fbi-boast-disrupting-terror-u-s-plot-deserves-scrutiny-skepticism/

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-01-17/manufactured-terrorism-us-officials-claim-credit-stopping-another-fbi-created-terror

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/03/16/howthefbicreatedaterrorist/

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/nov/16/fbi-entrapment-fake-terror-plots

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/10/nsa-spying-did-not-result-in-one-stopped-terrorist-plot-and-the-government-actually-did-spy-on-the-bad-guys-before-911.html

I have zero doubt about the conclusions of what I assert above.

[Shiver]

"Intelligence officials warned that the outcome amounts to a win for extremist groups"

Pot-kettle-black.

It's a sad day when people wanting to retain some rights are called extremists. How dare they even consider that they are Sovereign beings.

[BudRight]

I saw a movie last night called Survivor (not a very good movie). At the end of the movie it stated that since 9/11 over 53 acts of terrorism have been prevented in New York alone. I would wager that many of these come from this type of surveillance. I don't like the idea of the government spying on it's citizens, and I am sure it is used for other purposes as well such as industrial espionage.

But when you weigh our the good versus the bad I would rather have my conversations monitored than have my friends and family killed by terrorists.Maybe if this was done in a more transparent and controlled way, with some oversight and checks and balances, then it could be used more specifically to thwart terrorist attack. Then go ahead and monitor all the calls and emails you want.

Just my 2 cents.

If you are not a terrorist, how will monitoring your emails prevent a terrorist attack?

[thaibeachlovers]

I saw a movie last night called Survivor (not a very good movie). At the end of the movie it stated that since 9/11 over 53 acts of terrorism have been prevented in New York alone. I would wager that many of these come from this type of surveillance. I don't like the idea of the government spying on it's citizens, and I am sure it is used for other purposes as well such as industrial espionage.

But when you weigh our the good versus the bad I would rather have my conversations monitored than have my friends and family killed by terrorists.Maybe if this was done in a more transparent and controlled way, with some oversight and checks and balances, then it could be used more specifically to thwart terrorist attack. Then go ahead and monitor all the calls and emails you want.

Just my 2 cents.

How many phone conversations in the world every day? How many e-mails? Do you really think terrorists are stupid and say things that will give themselves away? Thanks to Hollywood we know everything about media interception and can take precautions.

I assume that I am being recorded, video'd wherever I am and have no privacy, so I self censor. Terrorists will do the same.

Real information comes from hard men in harm's way, not some geek listening to auntie Jo warbling on about what she had for dinner on twatter.