Irish man claims his house, land worth Bt65 million defrauded

[SCARLETIBIS1]

I saw that on TV yesterday. What the police spokeman explained was that the house was in the wife name. She used it as collateral for a loan she couldn't pay back. They went to court, the wife lost and the house was repossessed. Case closed. Unfortunetly a very common story.

The wife owed 600000 baht to a loan shark but the guy got screwed out of 65 million baht and you say that is equitable? Where did you learn your ritmatik?

Yeah, the guy was a fool but then you have to assume all Thais are crooks and be surprised when you find one who isn't.

When you hear so much how corrupt the police and the system is here, well there ya go................

I wonder if the PM will revoke the guy's passport for damaging Thailand's reputation? LOL

[h90]

"his house and land plots"??

[micmichd]

This is one of the classic ongoing property scams in Thailand.

Thai wives,Thai shareholders etc they will set you up to loose your properties...They push you out of your home/land by fake signatures and go to the land office with fake documents and POA and without you even being there...Now your house/land has suddenly been loaned out to an influence local loan shark.The loan does not get repaid.You then will loose your home and land without u even know there was any loan placed on your property..

You then will go to Thai court very expensive btw against the persons who made the fraud and against the local loan shark who now owns your property and in court you will loose again too.

The reason you loose is because u r a foreigner,and they will say that the loan shark was not in on the scam..hahaha infact they are all in on the scam...They can prevent these scam at land offices if they repair some of their laws and procedures but they are fine with it.

This particular scam with the irish gentleman only get some media attention cause it is high scam amount besides that its business as usual..

Do you really believe this kind of scam with fake documents etc cannot happen in the West?

No I don't. Not in a country that has effective rule of Law.

"Under the rule of law" I wonder how Mr Vard made his money in Ireland...

Edited June 3, 2015 by micmichd

[KarenBravo]

This is one of the classic ongoing property scams in Thailand.

Thai wives,Thai shareholders etc they will set you up to loose your properties...They push you out of your home/land by fake signatures and go to the land office with fake documents and POA and without you even being there...Now your house/land has suddenly been loaned out to an influence local loan shark.The loan does not get repaid.You then will loose your home and land without u even know there was any loan placed on your property..

You then will go to Thai court very expensive btw against the persons who made the fraud and against the local loan shark who now owns your property and in court you will loose again too.

The reason you loose is because u r a foreigner,and they will say that the loan shark was not in on the scam..hahaha infact they are all in on the scam...They can prevent these scam at land offices if they repair some of their laws and procedures but they are fine with it.

This particular scam with the irish gentleman only get some media attention cause it is high scam amount besides that its business as usual..

Do you really believe this kind of scam with fake documents etc cannot happen in the West?

No I don't. Not in a country that has effective rule of Law.

"Under the rule of law" I wonder how Mr Vard made his money in Ireland...

Huh?

We are not discussing that.

Probably perfectly legally. Do you have evidence to the contrary?

Why are you intent on making the victim the villain?

Edited June 3, 2015 by KarenBravo

[ubonjoe]

A post not in English and a reply to it has been removed.

[AmericanSafety]

If anyone knows how to contact this man, tell him to retain the services of Mossack Fonseca out of Bangkok.

I have them on retainer and have used them in the past.

They are international and do not F about.

​As for all the naysayers, I am hearing way too much BS bar room legal advice here. Expats have rights in Thailand just as nearly everywhere else in the world. Thailand joined the IMF in 1944, and it therefore bound by international banking standards and laws. Fraud is fraud no matter the place or the person's visa status. The thing is this, when you retain adequate legal counsel, in the form of an Internationally recognized firm, the Thai legal system folds like a house of cards. If you seek legal advice from Chang drinkers or go to 101 Services, you get the worst advice possible (and categorically, incorrect).

http://www.mossackfonseca.com/our_offices/thailand/

THAILAND

MOSSACK FONSECA & CO. (THAILAND) LTD.

Suite 3104, 31st Floor, Abdulrahim Place
990 Rama 4 Road
Bangkok 10500, Thailand

• Tel : (662) 636 3100
• Fax : (662) 636 3110
• Email : [email protected]

Edited June 3, 2015 by AmericanSafety

[ghworker2010]

For all you geniuses that don't bother to get the facts, HE HAD A LEGITIMATE 30 YEAR LEASE AND HIS SIGNATURE WAS FORGED TO SELL THE PROPERTY. This is the basis of him losing the property due to fraud and corruption.

I read about another case last year on this forum whereby the farang lost property due to his ex forging signatures at the land office.

I feel sorry for the guy but he has learnt the hard way. Who on earth would set up a company legally and put that amount of money into it.... Its so dodgy here in thailand- that much is known and written about here on a daily basis.

I hope he gets some justice but I doubt it

[micmichd]

@Karen Bravo:

I'm not posting about villains or victims.

Complete recklessness is one of the prerequisites to be successful in Western economy. Just saying, as an ex-banker.

This

Still feel empathy for the children, hope they're not instrumentalized now to raise some tears.

Edited June 3, 2015 by micmichd

[fred Kubasa]

A (rich) fool and his money...

And, I think, mostly OTHER'S MONEY !

[crazydrummerpauly]

A (rich) fool and his money...

So...let's get this straight, if the stories are true and top agencies, your own lawyers and the mafia conspire to rob you ....your a fool if you don't win against them ??????????

Sorry to have to point this out, but your summary missed out the one crucial adjective - THAI / lawyers, agencies, mafia, possible family....The post you criticise was obviously coming from the standpoint of it being foolish to trust - pretty much anything - in Thailand. I agree with that.

[crazydrummerpauly]

This is one of the classic ongoing property scams in Thailand.

Thai wives,Thai shareholders etc they will set you up to loose your properties...They push you out of your home/land by fake signatures and go to the land office with fake documents and POA and without you even being there...Now your house/land has suddenly been loaned out to an influence local loan shark.The loan does not get repaid.You then will loose your home and land without u even know there was any loan placed on your property..

You then will go to Thai court very expensive btw against the persons who made the fraud and against the local loan shark who now owns your property and in court you will loose again too.

The reason you loose is because u r a foreigner,and they will say that the loan shark was not in on the scam..hahaha infact they are all in on the scam...They can prevent these scam at land offices if they repair some of their laws and procedures but they are fine with it.

This particular scam with the irish gentleman only get some media attention cause it is high scam amount besides that its business as usual..

Do you really believe this kind of scam with fake documents etc cannot happen in the West?

No I don't. Not in a country that has effective rule of Law.

I think you mean Yes, that kind of scam cannot happen in a country with the effective rule of law ?

[Nick167]

Showed this article to my thai neighbours this afternoon and we all had a great laugh.......Farangs.....interesting lot.....they never learn and always think they are superior or know bests....why....they are not even united as a community and just look at this forum, they spit on their own kind and think that each is more superior than the best. We even like those that defend that they know thailand better and are married to hiso thai chinese wives and that claim thailand is great and when they fall....we really laugh loud. But we Asians and Thais love these farangs, no matter what you do to their types...be it murder, rape, scams, etc.....they still keep on coming.

[KarenBravo]

This is one of the classic ongoing property scams in Thailand.

Thai wives,Thai shareholders etc they will set you up to loose your properties...They push you out of your home/land by fake signatures and go to the land office with fake documents and POA and without you even being there...Now your house/land has suddenly been loaned out to an influence local loan shark.The loan does not get repaid.You then will loose your home and land without u even know there was any loan placed on your property..

You then will go to Thai court very expensive btw against the persons who made the fraud and against the local loan shark who now owns your property and in court you will loose again too.

The reason you loose is because u r a foreigner,and they will say that the loan shark was not in on the scam..hahaha infact they are all in on the scam...They can prevent these scam at land offices if they repair some of their laws and procedures but they are fine with it.

This particular scam with the irish gentleman only get some media attention cause it is high scam amount besides that its business as usual..

Do you really believe this kind of scam with fake documents etc cannot happen in the West?

No I don't. Not in a country that has effective rule of Law.

I think you mean Yes, that kind of scam cannot happen in a country with the effective rule of law ?

Thankyou. That's what I meant.

[KarenBravo]

Showed this article to my thai neighbours this afternoon and we all had a great laugh.......Farangs.....interesting lot.....they never learn and always think they are superior or know bests....why....they are not even united as a community and just look at this forum, they spit on their own kind and think that each is more superior than the best. We even like those that defend that they know thailand better and are married to hiso thai chinese wives and that claim thailand is great and when they fall....we really laugh loud. But we Asians and Thais love these farangs, no matter what you do to their types...be it murder, rape, scams, etc.....they still keep on coming.

Glad that a family's misery provided you and your neighbours with such hilarity.

What's next? A good laugh at your fellow Asians, the Rohingya?

Think I'll have a laugh over how the Chinese now own this country and it's people.

[philliphn]

if this farang is so well off why didnt he buy property in south of France ,Spain or the Greek islands where he legally owns it! He could then come out to Thailand whenever he has the urge and stay in a nice 5 star hotel.

These guys are fools. His ex wife seems to be in the middle of all this mess. . You never marry these isan village girls because they gamble and will use the title deed for collateral with loan sharks.

money gone - house gone very common throughout Thailand. The old guys are the easiest and most sought after in LOS for marriage.

Take a look at the old farang sitting on the ground. His Thai wife set him up on the first day they met. Money gone ...... shes now gone. Same old story. Old farangs never learn.

My question to you is. What is your problem with older expats?

Do you think that young people don't make those sort of mistakes? Younger men marry some women from Issan, experience the same thing, some times. Not all women from Issan gamble away the families assets. Many members on this site. Can tell your about their wife from Issan. Who does not act in a irresponsible way.

He could legally own a house. As it was in his legitimate performing companies name. He has the right as we all do to choose what property and where he wants to buy.

I am 60 years old. I assure you that. I am capable of learning. Have wealth and success. That I worked hard for. Older men make mistakes, but I have seen no shortage of young men in Thailand making mistakes!

[stevepompey]

Why I would never buy a house here or build one.

Do your homework and keep your wife out of any document.

[micmichd]

Why I would never buy a house here or build one.

Do your homework and keep your wife out of any document.

Keep who out of any document?

[wotaplonker]

i visit Los perhaps once a year on a 3 week jolly to Pattaya (nuff said) but even if i was as rich as croesus

i would never 'buy' a house, condo etc in such a volatile nation where 'western' type morality is irrelevant and corruption is normal,

renting longish term would be the way to go for me

[Jim walker]

He should have married a nice Issan girl who doesn’t gamble and is never in such a dire situation that she needs to borrow money from a loan shark I did and have never had any financial issue with my wife in the last 16 years I bought my wife a house in her name only 4 years after we married and she still has the house and she has never used it for collateral or anything like that she just bought herself a nice new car a few months ago and paid it outright just as I told her to do. I have also purchased property in Thailand but only ones that I completely own the part of the condo block that can be owned by a foreigner, and I sold a 2 bedroom one in March and got the money repatriated back to UK without any problems in just a few days, as for buying a house or a building plot in a company name not owned 100% by me would never consider that in Thailand as we business people know all the pitfalls especially with so much corruption and dishonesty in Thailand I am sure we would all end up banging our heads on a brick wall, Thailand is built to enjoy yourself with no stress and just a little business but always only as much as you can walk away from without caring about a small loss from your portfolio.

[Beetlejuice]

The whole case stinks to high heaven.

The Irish guy probably not legally allowed to own the real estate and then robbed blind by those who saw his vulnerability.

The odds of this guy receiving even one baht of his investment back is zilch.

[useronthenet]

Will foreigners ever learn ?

[Mr Somtam]

65 million is how many days in super deluxe 5 star hotel?

Yet another bright spark with nothing useful to say.

I was on my tablet, too lazy to type more, sorry.

What I mean is you can rent a fantastic place in Phuket for anywhere from 70,000 to 200,000 or even more. I saw some really over the top villas for around 170,000 THB a month. You live there 10 years, it will "only" cost you 20 million... And when you get bored you can move in a second...

But this guy really got robbed, I hope he gets some justice, but I am not holding my breath as they say.

[sweatalot]

This is why you only invest what you can afford to lose they are a very crooked lot in phuket.

An often used, but, ultimately meaningless statement.

Ultimately accurate, I think you mean.

Those who invest, gamble or try 'get-rich-quick' schemes are usually doomed to failure.

So it is entirely accurate and meaningful to state 'only invest what you can afford to lose'.

How many expats invested all their money in a house to live in with their -not always fraudulent- wives.

How many of them can afford to lose it?

[nontabury]

Showed this article to my thai neighbours this afternoon and we all had a great laugh.......Farangs.....interesting lot.....they never learn and always think they are superior or know bests....why....they are not even united as a community and just look at this forum, they spit on their own kind and think that each is more superior than the best. We even like those that defend that they know thailand better and are married to hiso thai chinese wives and that claim thailand is great and when they fall....we really laugh loud. But we Asians and Thais love these farangs, no matter what you do to their types...be it murder, rape, scams, etc.....they still keep on coming.

There's a lot of truth in what you say, we Farangs are our own worst enemies, instead of sticking together, some Farangs prefare to stab others in the back.

And yes for some reason the media in the west keeps quite about the bad side of Thailand.

[Tony125]

I have sympathy for this guy and his family, I really do. But this story is a perfect example of how the expat dream can quickly turn into a nightmare.

Thailand's laws on land ownership are quite clear and because of these laws, foreigners who end up in the position of Mr Vard stand little chance and are often left with nothing. Mr Vard isn't the first foreigner this kind of thing has happened to and he certainly wont be the last.

Of course, I'm sure there is much more to this story and I'm only going off the article in the OP.

However, whilst a substantial amount there is more to life than a house in Phuket.

For the moment at least it seems Mr Vard has his health and safety and the health and safety of his children.

I admire this guy for standing up and fighting for what he believes is his but if I was in his position, I think I would admit when defeated and if possible, start a new life with my children somewhere else.

I wish Mr Vard the best of luck.

Blimey!

How many more times must the facts be laid out?

HE DIDN'T OWN THE LAND. HE LEASED IT.

HIS SIGNATURE WAS FORGED TO MAKE THE LEASE NULL AND VOID.

Yes, I'm shouting.

I'm not doubting this for a moment and have no doubt that Mr Vard has probably been swindled out of what is rightfully his but according to the chief of police, a court has already ruled against the claims for Mr Vard. Whether the ruling of the court is correct or not, a decision has been made on this case. Bearing in mind the judicial system we're dealing with here, it is going to be very difficult for Mr Vard to get true justice. I feel desperately sorry for him.

Doesn't mean because a local court rules against him that an appeal to a higher court or authority (Military) can't over rule the lower court.

[timewilltell]

No The land does not get auctioned off to pay the debtor...............

There are 3 forms of lending money in Thailand---(outside of the banking circles)

The one his wife took was called a Ki-Far...(I am probably writing these wrong--but that is how it's pronounced ) With Ki-Far you sign the property over to the lender (in the land office) with the proviso that it will be returned when the debt is paid. Many people like this way because the dok-beer ดอกเบี้ย Interest rate is much lower as the loan has a guarantee.

Therefor if the loan is not paid the house/land is already in the name of the new owner. No auction

There is an illegality it would seem on what they have done to his lease----

Its OK putting the boot into this guy--- but on the estate I live in, (quite a small one 65 houses) 4 homes have gone this way --(wife gambling)

If you are married (with or without a lease etc) where at this moment is your chanuk (shanuk---however its pronounced) ownership papers.

Do You Know ????

because if you do not have them in a safety deposit box--then leave it with a trusted friend.

Sure the people involved could at a stretch go down to the land office and declare it lost---they then have to report that lost to the police & sign many papers stating this fact, before beginning the issue of a new one ALSO--if there is a lease attached to the document registered with the land office , that party has to come in again and either resign again or release it.

I am not saying 100% --that with enough white envelopes being handed around that you could not be cheated , but this would make it so much more difficult, especially when you provide proof you have the ownership papers with you signature on them for the lease.

How many of you know just where your papers are----because when this was asked some time ago of a friend---he found his house was mortgaged.

The 'loan' is called a sale with right of redemption - interest is front loaded between 36% to 48% per year plus transfer taxes and agents fees to sell and buy back - which of course is nigh impossible. But it is not as simple because usually these people use threats and violence to seal the deal and a LOAD of fraud, connected corrupt lawyers, police and thugs. This is not a transparent transaction, is illegal because of the interest charged as well as a whole slew of other illegalities. The shame is the courts protect them via their corrupt pally lawyers.

You can keep your Chanote a safe as you like - they just get copies. A fairly simple police report same as you make if you lose your bank book.

I just wanted to higlight that your supposed comfort zone is not a comfort zone at all but a horrible illusion.

[timewilltell]

I have sympathy for this guy and his family, I really do. But this story is a perfect example of how the expat dream can quickly turn into a nightmare.

Thailand's laws on land ownership are quite clear and because of these laws, foreigners who end up in the position of Mr Vard stand little chance and are often left with nothing. Mr Vard isn't the first foreigner this kind of thing has happened to and he certainly wont be the last.

Of course, I'm sure there is much more to this story and I'm only going off the article in the OP.

However, whilst a substantial amount there is more to life than a house in Phuket.

For the moment at least it seems Mr Vard has his health and safety and the health and safety of his children.

I admire this guy for standing up and fighting for what he believes is his but if I was in his position, I think I would admit when defeated and if possible, start a new life with my children somewhere else.

I wish Mr Vard the best of luck.

Blimey!

How many more times must the facts be laid out?

HE DIDN'T OWN THE LAND. HE LEASED IT.

HIS SIGNATURE WAS FORGED TO MAKE THE LEASE NULL AND VOID.

Yes, I'm shouting.

Not this case - his business was defrauded. If you search #TySaysNo (with the hash) you will come across the facebook page of the family where the lease was cancelled. He didn't get his lease restored by the court despite the fraud already proven - watch the videos on the page better.

[Acharn]

"His" house and land plots. How's that again?

2 million US dollars? No Thai could cheat him out of that.

Oh, for [deleted]'s sake, quit it with the "No Thai ..." bullshit. It was old a year ago. The problem is a guy who makes that much money at whatever it was he did back in the Ould Sod doesn't believe there are smarter people than him out there, just because they're Thai. There was a Brit name of Rudyard Kipling who tried to warn his countrymen. This is just another con man who thought he could cheat the East and got taken. What's his wife doing in debt to a loan shark gang for ฿ู600,000? Why couldn't she tell him about it and why didn't he pay it off? Moreover, he's obviously not learned his lesson, thinking he's so special he can only make his complaint to the Chief of the Royal Thai Police. He still has money? That won't last long.

[chrisinth]

65M??

Chump change.

Yeah, but its the principal..................

[watcharacters]

I have little sympathy for the greedy.

Who do you think was greedy in this matter?