French businessman electrocuted in Pattaya

[Monkeyrobot]

They don't know what a ground or earth is here.

[elgordo38]

RIP to this poor man. Back home, all outside plugs are GFCI protected. As are all plugs in bathrooms or near water sources.

http://www.doityourself.com/stry/gfci-electrical-outlet-in-the-bathroom-a-must-have

Some years back my then g/f's mother was building a new house and store. The idiot contractor put a plug right beside the shower head. When I questioned him him say dat OK. The bugger did not like me and to this day I think he was trying to kill me. There was no bldg. inspection done nothing. That's life in a small village. By the time he reached the other side of the 3 section bldg. the water was pouring into our unit around the windows ceiling the gypsum ceiling was buckling and collapsing under the weight of the water what a mess. It was the last season of heavy rains. What a disaster. I only lasted a year.

[elgordo38]

So sad, RIP Man

Just a thought,

Go buy a meter and check power is off before messing about with any electrical gear.

even if you have flipped the main switch still check..

You can make your own meter. All you need is a light socket with 2 pigtails and a light bulb. If the bulb lights up its live.

[elgordo38]

Electrocuted and killed? Uh, kind of redundant, wouldn't you say?

Explain...?

In the strictest sense electrocution (as opposed to electric shock) implies death.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrocution

Get a mental picture in your head of a guy sitting in a electric chair.

[Gsxrnz]

I watched an "electrician" install a new water pump at the house I rented last year.

He wondered why I asked him what he was doing as he uncoiled the separate earth wire provided with the pump and dutifully screwed it to the plastic plinth the pump was mounted on.

His answer was "ert wire" as he gave me that "you stoopit falang, not now anyting" look on his face.

And that's why <deleted> happens here.

[elgordo38]

The quality of the electrical work here is one of my biggest fears (other than driving on the roads). Whenever I leave the house for more than a couple of days I unplug everything and turn off all of the circuit breakers. When I lived in South Pattaya I had a water heater installed in the bathroom of my apartment. The guy ran the cable from the heater to the front door and then, as I was watching, started poking at this octopus mess of wires above the ceiling tile. He found one he liked, undid the screw-cap connector, joined the new wire in and taped the lot together. It looked to me like one main power cable with numerous other ones spliced to it, some with plastic screw-caps, some just with tape. I bought a fire extinguisher the next day.

More recently, at the house I'm in now, I needed a main circuit breaker changed as the old cheap one was falling apart and would pop off for no reason (when the guy removed it, it literally fell apart into 4 pieces in his hand). I told him where the main powerbox was on the pole outside the house but he didn't see the need to disconnect the power and instead proceeded to remove the old and install the new circuit breaker while the lines were still live ! He would (very carefully) grab one wire with his insulated pliers and twist it to the side, then grab another one and do the same until he had them all out, then reversed the procedure when connecting them to the new breaker.

I actually had my friend's phone number up and ready to be called on my phone, expecting that when this guy electrocuted himself I'd call my friend to get him to get an ambulance dispatched ASAP. Fortunately nothing happened (and the new circuit breaker is working fine).

I like using these photos I took one day when I was living in South Pattaya, whenever I have to give a safety briefing about something:

Not electricians its 2 guys doing a high wire act complete with balance pole.

[The Deerhunter]

Yup ^^^.

And a 500 Baht RCBO would likely have saved him

EDIT For those interested in how to add an RCBO and other electrical safety issues please have a look here http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/693630-how-to-make-your-thai-electrical-system-safe/

Yes. I retro installed 3 RCD's in different places here & will have one on the current building project (pun not intended) You cannot buy portable RCD's here so I brought one from Home country which is a bit fiddly with different plugs. Them, a fibreglass & rubber ladder & flipflops & I am still nervous. The last electrician had 20 meters of cable to the new kitchen melt because he found something weird left by a previous cowboy. Scary stuff. RIP Monsieur.

[carlyai]

Yup ^^^.

And a 500 Baht RCBO would likely have saved him

EDIT For those interested in how to add an RCBO and other electrical safety issues please have a look here http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/693630-how-to-make-your-thai-electrical-system-safe/

Crossy, I'm sorry but I don't know you personally as I would love to speak to you to confirm what is your intent in posting the previous shortcut?

Is this as a guide to what to ask for (or expect) when others have a qualified electrician install or modify equipment, or is it a guide on how to complete this works themselves?

In spite of this sad and tragic accident (the very thought that this man has been taken while his wife is carrying their child is heartbreaking) I find it totally bewildering that anyone would continue to post advice for the uneducated and untrained to carry out electrical work themselves!!! I believe you (and others on TVF) have an electrical background? Does it not go against everything you were taught to share this kind of electrical information with the electrically untrained person?

Genuine apologies if I have misunderstood your post and its intent, it's just that every time an untrained person touches something electrical there is extreme potential for a repeat headline.

Please, no matter what you're qualifications or experience, please stop posting information to be used by others. I appreciate there is a huge amount of information available on the internet, but by readily engaging in this kind of technical exchange you are legitimizing or condoning this kind of amateur activity, you're training will/should tell you this is unacceptable.

Commiserations and condolences to his wife, family and friends...

Bignose,

you have no idea what you are writing about.

Just visit the link and the electrical forum, take a couple of weeks, and have another think before you post this well intentioned, but highly missinformed crap.

[elgordo38]

Aaaaaaahhhh, a short circuit on a water pump in Thailand - a foreigner as the victim... Time for some serious Thai bashing!!!

Even though I am up for some good old Thai bashin' myself, wherever it applies, I can't ignore that in most cases like this one the foreigner always gets some extra bonus trust credit by the majority of posters. Ever considered that there also are a lot of uneducated foreigners out there? Some who might take on fixin' some electrical stuff, brake systems, gas stoves, etc. even though they haven't got a clue?

The death of this Frenchman is something that could have been avoided, yes - he could have avoided it by calling it a day, switch off the FI to the pump room and making an appointment with the electrician or property manager instead. Accidents happen, but this story leaves too much of a gray zone to be Thai bashed deservedly...

The saddest part of this one is that Francoise will not be able to meet his child and be a father to her. Sad tragedy indeed

RIP, poor Francoise, condolences to wife, relatives and friends.

Its a male thing. We never read directions just have at it. Male Tarzan stubbornness. I can remember when I was in my 20's and decided to move a electric panel from one room to another. I was drilling through a wall when the sparks flew. I had hit a live wire on the old electric panel. Luckily I was using an old hand drill with a wood end piece and also a wooden middle piece to hold otherwise I think I would have been dead. Next day everything was forgotten and life luckily went on. My condolences to his wife and unborn child. Life unfortunately does not have a reset button.

Edited June 5, 2015 by elgordo38

[sitti]

Are you trying to say this was not a Thai-built building? Are you seriously suggesting that a Thai electrician would have been able to fix the problem?

If you are indeed electrically trained, you will certainly have looked in horror at the incompetently installed electrical systems in most Thai buildings.

Well, if he had called pump manufacturer and have them send their technician, he would have much better chance of making it work again.

Not sure where you live but you must only have seen some old buildings. All newer buildings built by reputable companies are fine. My houses are perfectly fine. My apartment and condo buildings are fine, tenants never complained about this. I very frequently visit many new housing/building/hotel projects, they are all just fine. Any truly qualified electrician can get this basic job done right.

Before jump to conclusion and point fingers at Thai as usual, why not point them at this farang. It was his fault that, obviously, he did not switch off the main. He was about to take shower. He attempted to repair at that moment. He was not careful.

Edited June 5, 2015 by sitti

[Transporter]

seems that after living few years in Thailand he realized he can fix the water pump better than thai technician, it costs him his life :-(

R.I.P.

My water pump has a to pin plug, no earth. I bashed a 2 metre rod in the ground next to it, then connected a stout wire to it, the other end onto the metal pump motor casing.

PS. Anyone trying to fix anything electrical HERE should FIRST switch off the main house switch and hope everything runs through it.

Unfortunately that is still not enough because if one of the two main cables from the meter out in the street is damaged and goes to ground you could still get a shock by touching anything metal that is plugged in to the wall socket. The only safe way is to pay an experienced Thai electrician properly to do a good job in the first place. Dont skimp on cheaper options. Install ELCB safety trips. I am not an expert but I have experienced some of the shoddy wiring and install work here.

Dont DIY when it makes little sense.

So sad for this mans family.

[aripengu]

RIP

Rule number one: always cut the power before trying to fix anything especially a an electric water pump.

Edited June 5, 2015 by aripengu

[crusty]

Thai electwistitee no need Earth.

'Cuse me, the Thai pronunciation is "electric city" !

[hkt83100]

When I moved into a new house, I had an electric meter installed by a so-called technician. Later I found out, that this bl**dy idiot switched the connectors. The ground line was going over the fuses and the hot was always hot, even if you switched off the fuses. I found it out in a quite shocking way

[TerrylSky]

A wake up call for me; I've been zapped a few times in my kitchen due to a cheap ass line I guess. I am not one for excess regulations (like in the U.S. generally) - as I've been able to affordably develop my place in Thailand (and haven't been able to in the U.$); but indeed there is a line (or hot wire) between basic common sense and fool hardiness/cheap faulty work. I will however upgrade my Thai residence for sure. My condolences.

[Kondiao]

Yup ^^^.

And a 500 Baht RCBO would likely have saved him

Is there a difference with the voltage here? Many years ago, I was in my father's pool when the pump went off. I opened the box to switch it back on and accidentally hit a live wire as it was late at night. The current grabbed me, but luckily when I fell back, it let me go. Would a GFCI have helped with that??? Or is 120V less "dangerous". Just curious....

Again, RIP to this man and my heart goes out to his wife. How horrible.

Its the amps that kill you not the volts, if it was voltage, tasers would be killing everyone

You are dead wrong. It is the voltage that drives the current, measured in amperes. 220 V. is twice the voltage of 110 V. and more likely to drive a larger current through you to ground. 550 V. can kill you even if there is no load (and so no amperage) on the line. Just touch a live 550 v. buss and. if you are gorunded, it grabs you, forces all your muscles to spasm, so you can't breathe, until you die and relax and let go.

A TASER is DC and extremely high voltage in order to give you a shock, not a current like the Frenchman had going through his body. TASERS do kill people. It is not the voltage or lack of that kills it is the psychotic cops who get off on repeatedly shocking a person who is drunk of out of control - so his heart gives out, or he falls and dies from banging his head on something while unable to react normally because of the shock. Spark plug wires do the same thing - high voltage, tiny current - give you a shock.

Not the same as a 110 or 220/230v. AC source, which even with low amperage can electrocute you - different process, same result. Your heart takes a big hit.

[mercman24]

i very old English saying. "you can't see electric coming" very true and sad in this case,

[crazykopite]

R.I.P to the deceased !! No matter where in the world you live if your going to check out any electrical issues turn off the main switch in the fuse box before attempting any repairs !

[pizzachang]

After starting work(many years ago in Alaska) in industry using 460v machinery, I was taught to turn off, tag and check. Always check for power....

[wandasloan]

Thats the 3rd world for you

RIP poor bloke

Agreed. It's a good place to live. In the 1st world, electrocution is constant danger.

[Doc46]

I woke up a few weeks ago to the sound of my water pump whirring. I went outside and water was pouring out of it. I turned off all the electric in the house, put some rubber flip flops on & some rubber gloves on. I still felt a fair bit of trepidation as I pulled the plug out of the socket!!

You just as smart as the french that died,,, I am a dutch electrician by trade,,, ALWAYS TURN OF THE MAINS POWER,,,if not you will die,,,only a matter of time,,,

[RabC]

Are you trying to say this was not a Thai-built building? Are you seriously suggesting that a Thai electrician would have been able to fix the problem?

If you are indeed electrically trained, you will certainly have looked in horror at the incompetently installed electrical systems in most Thai buildings.

Well, if he had called pump manufacturer and have them send their technician, he would have much better chance of making it work again.

Not sure where you live but you must only have seen some old buildings. All newer buildings built by reputable companies are fine. My houses are perfectly fine. My apartment and condo buildings are fine, tenants never complained about this. I very frequently visit many new housing/building/hotel projects, they are all just fine. Any truly qualified electrician can get this basic job done right.

Before jump to conclusion and point fingers at Thai as usual, why not point them at this farang. It was his fault that, obviously, he did not switch off the main. He was about to take shower. He attempted to repair at that moment. He was not careful.

I really hate to burst your bubble but go look in the roof/crawl spaces of these wonderfully wired homes/hotels and condos you will see the real truth about the quality of workmanship. In Thailand as ever "Out of sight Out of mind"

[Mudcrab]

So sad, RIP Man

Just a thought,

Go buy a meter and check power is off before messing about with any electrical gear.

even if you have flipped the main switch still check..

You can make your own meter. All you need is a light socket with 2 pigtails and a light bulb. If the bulb lights up its live.

unless the light bulb is blown..they were banned many years ago in Australia for that reason.

[tom21]

not sure what he done but he did not follow the golden rules, that is isolate , check no power then touch . hope his family is taken care of.

[Mudcrab]

Yup ^^^.

And a 500 Baht RCBO would likely have saved him

EDIT For those interested in how to add an RCBO and other electrical safety issues please have a look here http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/693630-how-to-make-your-thai-electrical-system-safe/

Crossy, I'm sorry but I don't know you personally as I would love to speak to you to confirm what is your intent in posting the previous shortcut?

Is this as a guide to what to ask for (or expect) when others have a qualified electrician install or modify equipment, or is it a guide on how to complete this works themselves?

In spite of this sad and tragic accident (the very thought that this man has been taken while his wife is carrying their child is heartbreaking) I find it totally bewildering that anyone would continue to post advice for the uneducated and untrained to carry out electrical work themselves!!! I believe you (and others on TVF) have an electrical background? Does it not go against everything you were taught to share this kind of electrical information with the electrically untrained person?

Genuine apologies if I have misunderstood your post and its intent, it's just that every time an untrained person touches something electrical there is extreme potential for a repeat headline.

Please, no matter what you're qualifications or experience, please stop posting information to be used by others. I appreciate there is a huge amount of information available on the internet, but by readily engaging in this kind of technical exchange you are legitimizing or condoning this kind of amateur activity, you're training will/should tell you this is unacceptable.

Commiserations and condolences to his wife, family and friends...

Bignose,

you have no idea what you are writing about.

Just visit the link and the electrical forum, take a couple of weeks, and have another think before you post this well intentioned, but highly missinformed crap.

On the contrary,

Seems Bignose is from a country where electrical safety is taken seriously and electricians are well trained, educated licensed and responsible.

Not from the realms of where any so called handyman can do electrical work.

If you choose to ignore or bad mouth him then good for you.

Eventually someone will pay the price.

[melvinmelvin]

Many of you seem to be concerned about having proper grounding. Yes, that is important.

However, the electrical supply system in LoS is quite different from what most of you are familiar with.

(there are very very few countries in the "white" world that has a system comparable to LoS)

Ordinary supply in LoS is fase/neutral (and now and then combined with local grounding).

Local grounding is NOT ok, it is potentially dangerous.

Problem with local grounding is that grounding-faults in one house results in current/potential moving through the ground to your house.

Neighbour has an electrical problem with say a washing machine, you may receive electrical shocks in your house.

Ground as much as you like, fine. But more important is circuit breakers that triggers on ground faults and surges.

[Mudcrab]

An Electrician in Thailand is more like a Magician. Your never more than a milliamp away from being electocuted in Thailand....Perhaps a pair of rubber flip flops would have saved his life. Sad.

I doubt it, a ground (under your feet) shock is usually not a killer - holding the pipes while touching a live connection is and is usually across the chest stopping the heart

This is what many do not seem to understand. I have had more shocks than care to remember, it is an unfortunate fact of life that familiarity breeds contempt which leads to risk.

I even had a 450v DC belt which fortunately just went through my hand, left a quarter inch deep hole on my finger at the point of contact.

It might have been ok many years ago...now we assess the hazard and assess the risk and determine the control measures to reduce the likelihood of an adverse event actually happening.

A quarter inch hole in the finger is not an acceptable outcome.

[Mudcrab]

And don't be confused by the ELCB, RCD or whatever they are called where you come from.....if you contact both the live and the neutral wires.. or hot/ground for our foreign brothers......they may not protect you ...you might very well experience a lethal current ...earthed/grounded or not

[chilli42]

An Electrician in Thailand is more like a Magician. Your never more than a milliamp away from being electocuted in Thailand....Perhaps a pair of rubber flip flops would have saved his life. Sad.

"rubber flip flops" as safety shoes.....

Indeed, rubber flip flops are the safety shoe of choice on all Thai construction sites.

[lostinisaan]

RIP.

Water and domestic electrics worldwide isnt a very god mix but water and Thai electrical installation standards = accident waiting to happen.

I am not Thai bashing, it is a sad truth that Thai Electrical Installation Standards are not very high.

so you are blaming the Thais for this rather than blaming someone who was likely meddling with something he was not qualified to do, maybe a phone call to an electrician might have been the correct course of action - and I am electrically qualified and know the dangers

RIP

Recently I changed the wall isolating switches for the A/C and showers for safety ones, detect no earth etc. On turning the main switch box (RCD's) off I found by pure luck that the showers and A/C did NOT run through the switch box. I changed them live.

My point is, thats how good Thai electricians were in my case, dangerous and useless.

Glad that you're still atyping..aehh alive. And some people were wondering why I wanted to ground my water heaters in Isaan forum?

Fortunately, it was before my artificial knee joint. The light in the bathroom had to be replaced. Okay, not a big deal, were my thoughts.

Switched the circuit breaker off, wife said something about a shock and i played it down and said something about some rest- electricity...

Then I was holding the light and had 235 volts running through my body, standing on the water container.

Then I found out that all electric in that house was switched like that. Life wire to the lights, minus over the switch.

Can't imagine what would happen to my Titanium leg now. Melting perhaps?

I hope the poor lad will rest in peace. Never ever underestimate high voltage and combined with water......