Taking my Thai wife and our 3 kids to the UK

[Marco71]

Dear all,

Any advice would be welcome;

I'm British and live in Bangkok with my wife, a Thai national, and our 3 kids aged 6, 4 and a baby of 3 months. Obviously all the kids have dual nationality.

My wife and I have been married officially, in Thailand and registered with the British Embassy, for 7 years.

Our first child was born in the UK after I successfully applied, without an agency, for her settlement visa but that was 7 odd years ago. After being in the UK for about 18-20 months, we decided to move and live in Bangkok so her settlement visa obviously lapsed. Since we have had our other 2 children here in Bangkok.

We have had 1 holiday for about a month to the UK back in 2012 and managed to get a visa for my wife, no problems.

Now we would like to go back to the UK for up to 6 months and if it works out, then apply for a settlement visa for my wife.

I just want to find out the best visa application process and cost effective way to do this; I'm checking the relevant websites but things change and any experienced advice would be most welcome. (no agencies pls; I'm pretty good at getting these things done, I'm just after inside knowledge)

Basically, I may try and get work when back in the UK and possibly settle or simply come back to BKK within months (sadly I have a very sick relative there who we would like to spend some time with also) so I don't feel a settlement visa would be easy or relevant at this time.

Any advice would be welcome, as I say, thanks to anyone in advance for their efforts, Marco

[theoldgit]

If your wife just wants to visit she can apply for a Standard Visitor Visa, https://www.gov.uk/standard-visitor-visa, this, if granted, would allow her to stay in the UK for up to six months.

There is no actual visa that is designed for somebody who wants to see if it works out, the Standard Visit Visa has replaced, general and family visit visa categories. Obviously your kids will have their own UK passports and wouldn't require visas.

She wouldn't be allowed to work, though with three kids she probably wouldn't want to, nor could she access the NHS for anything other than emergency treatment, in fact none of you could.

Your wife will need to satisfy the Entry Clearance Officer that the trip is genuine and affordable and that she's likely to return to Thailand at the conclusion of her trip.

If she wants to apply for settlement again she would need to do so from Thailand, you would need to meet the financial requirements that are in force at the date of application.

http://www.vfsglobal.co.uk/thailand/vfsglobalintroduction.html

[Marco71]

Thank you for your reply old g; I kind of thought that would be the process in having to come back to Thailand to get the settlement visa for the wife but we could do that, although I'd have thought I could get me and kids NHS numbers etc; but that'd just be something to explore when we're back over in Blighty and guess it would be related to me being tax registered/employed etc. Thanks again though and for the links as things change quickly with visa's etc. particularly in the current global climate. Kind Regards, Marco

[SantiSuk]

If you are still registered with a UK GP you would still get free treatment and they would probably give it to your kids with British passports too (mine did 2 years ago, but they indicated there was an element of discretion to it and because she was a 3 year-old sick child they would 'make exceptions').

However you are not entitled to free treatment once you are non-resident for UK tax purposes. Whether your GP or a hospital would ever find out you were not entitled is another matter (unless you de-registered) - I have not tested that since I went non-resident. I have kept my GP registration just in case I ever resettled or lost my NRI status, but since HMRC gave me lots of lovely tax back on gaining NRI I feel it's only fair not to take advantage of the system weaknesses. It costs about 65 quid for a 10 minute private appointment with a UK GP (Cambridge - probably more in London and less in Midlands North etc).

I have never tested the emergency treatment rules or how Emergency Rooms at hospitals behave, so dunno how it works. Things are generally tightening in this area I think so I don't think there are any guarantees

Edited June 6, 2015 by SantiSuk

[theoldgit]

This is part of a response I recently received from the DoH

More generally, anyone who lives outside this country for more than six months is no longer automatically entitled to free NHS hospital treatment. If the person is away on, for example, a one-off extended holiday, then they will continue to be fully entitled to free hospital treatment as soon as they return to live permanently in the UK. They will then be ordinarily resident again.

Whilst the Department is aware that many UK nationals living overseas still consider themselves to be UK residents, sometimes even maintaining accommodation here, someone who regularly and routinely spends the majority of each year settled in a residence outside the UK cannot legitimately be considered as being ordinarily resident here.

[Marco71]

Thank you both of you for your advice. I'm hopeful that health / NHS / GP for me or the kids or indeed the wife won't be required (you never know of course) but we wouldn't be going back over with any pre-existing complaints. And clearly, if we did decide to settle back, then we would make up the required time of settlement to get re-registered etc. Actually, I am still registered with my GP in London, as is my first child but that is more down to us merely not notifying them. I think, our plan at present would be to head back, get my wife on a 6 month visitor visa, see my very ill Aunt for a while (this would be the main purpose of the visit). I may then try a job offer from an old friend who has asked me to work for him (paying tax etc) and if that worked out, come back to Bangkok with the family 6 months in, to get my wife a settlement visa or if the work and UK life simply doesn't fit for us again; head back to settle back into life in Thailand.

Thank you for your advice and help both the old g and santisuk. I'm still happy to hear any other advice; I'm not sure when we would be heading to the UK and that is somewhat reliant on my current Aunts condition but it would probably be within the next 6 months.

Regards, Marco

[MaeJoMTB]

She wouldn't be allowed to work, though with three kids she probably wouldn't want to, nor could she access the NHS for anything other than emergency treatment, in fact none of you could.

The OP would be entitled to family tax credit (if working 16hrs a week)(salary topped up to 16kgbp/year)

Child benefit for all three children (40GBP/week) this will still be paid if you subsequently leave the UK, no way to cancel it.

School and NHS for all three children (if he tells all officials he intends to stay in the UK).

Edited June 6, 2015 by MaeJoMTB

[Lobber]

Hope you are not on the same flight as me LOL. ....Seriously have a great trip and hope you alll enjoy the UK!!

[Marco71]

She wouldn't be allowed to work, though with three kids she probably wouldn't want to, nor could she access the NHS for anything other than emergency treatment, in fact none of you could.

The OP would be entitled to family tax credit (if working 16hrs a week)(salary topped up to 16kgbp/year)

Child benefit for all three children (40GBP/week) this will still be paid if you subsequently leave the UK, no way to cancel it.

School and NHS for all three children (if he tells all officials he intends to stay in the UK).

Cheers MaeJoMTB, all helpful, regards

[Marco71]

Hope you are not on the same flight as me LOL. ....Seriously have a great trip and hope you alll enjoy the UK!!

Ha ha; cheers, just look out for the screaming kids, moaning mother and the father with the whiskey in one hand and xanex in the other. Just kidding....!

[maprao]

After 3 months back in the UK you are entitled to all NHS and "other" privileges.(but not for the wife only you and your kids)

I have no intention of ever returning but it's worth noting

Edited June 6, 2015 by maprao

[7by7]

She wouldn't be allowed to work, though with three kids she probably wouldn't want to, nor could she access the NHS for anything other than emergency treatment, in fact none of you could.

The OP would be entitled to family tax credit (if working 16hrs a week)(salary topped up to 16kgbp/year)

Child benefit for all three children (40GBP/week) this will still be paid if you subsequently leave the UK, no way to cancel it.

School and NHS for all three children (if he tells all officials he intends to stay in the UK).

Only if the family are entering the UK to take up residence.

Anyone who is only visiting the UK, British citizen or not, but "tells all officials he intends to stay in the UK" in order to claim the benefits you list, or any others, is guilty of benefit fraud; a criminal offence.

Benefit fraud could lead to 10-year jail terms, says DPP

[mickyboy]

well doing your slef will save money but hope you have plenty in the bank because i believe now you have to put down deposit i been told its £500 perperson for medical expensise let alone air fares and every thing else visa wow it mount up

[7by7]

I think you are referring to the NHS surcharge.

This applies to those coming to the UK for longer than 6 months, e.g. settlement, not to visitors.

Of course, whilst not a requirement for the visa or for entry to the UK as a visitor, adequate health insurance is strongly recommended for visitors.

If a visitor does obtain non emergency NHS treatment, including any follow up treatment after a visit to A&E, then they should be billed for it. If they don't pay that bill then any future UK visa application by them will be refused until they do pay it.

Edited June 6, 2015 by 7by7

[MaeJoMTB]

She wouldn't be allowed to work, though with three kids she probably wouldn't want to, nor could she access the NHS for anything other than emergency treatment, in fact none of you could.

The OP would be entitled to family tax credit (if working 16hrs a week)(salary topped up to 16kgbp/year)

Child benefit for all three children (40GBP/week) this will still be paid if you subsequently leave the UK, no way to cancel it.

School and NHS for all three children (if he tells all officials he intends to stay in the UK).

Only if the family are entering the UK to take up residence.

Anyone who is only visiting the UK, British citizen or not, but "tells all officials he intends to stay in the UK" in order to claim the benefits you list, or any others, is guilty of benefit fraud; a criminal offence.

Benefit fraud could lead to 10-year jail terms, says DPP

None of the claims I specified are covered by 'benefit fraud' rules.

Child benefit is for the children, if they exist, and you are living in the UK (at any time during their childhood), you can claim it until they are age 19.

Child Tax credit, entitles a family of 3 to a minimum wage of 16kgbp/year tax free. If you work and have the kids, you can claim it.

If you intended to move to the UK and get your wife a settlement VISA .... then for some reason it didn't happen, all totally legit claims.

I'd love to see a court case where immigration broke up a family, then SS wanted the child tax credit or benefit back, total humiliation for the UK government and a trip to the EU court of human rights ........ all paid for by some charitable organisation.

Edited June 6, 2015 by MaeJoMTB

[catman20]

Hope you are not on the same flight as me LOL. ....Seriously have a great trip and hope you alll enjoy the UK!!

Ha ha; cheers, just look out for the screaming kids, moaning mother and the father with the whiskey in one hand and xanex in the other. Just kidding....!

are you !!!

[7by7]

MaeJoMTB,

To claim any UK public funds, including the benefits you mention, one must be ordinarily resident in the UK. Check if you don't believe me.

If a British ex pat returns to the UK to take up residence then they can claim any and all public funds to which they may be entitled.

But if they live overseas and are just visiting the UK, then saying they are taking up ordinary residence in the UK so they can claim public funds whilst visiting is fraud.

If you think that the government would not deport the foreign spouse and take the British one to court in such a case, then you have not been paying attention to the increasingly tough stance they are taking on both immigration and benefit fraud!

You also don't seem to fully understand the ECHR; especially Article 8 which is a qualified right.

Visitors cannot apply for settlement in the UK; they have to return to their country of residence to do so. That the OPs wife may be contemplating returning to Thailand to apply for settlement at the end of her visit does not make her a UK resident whilst there as a visitor.

Neither does it make the OP ordinarily resident; unless he intends to remain in the UK while she returns to Thailand to apply for settlement.

Edited June 6, 2015 by 7by7

[bkk_mike]

She wouldn't be allowed to work, though with three kids she probably wouldn't want to, nor could she access the NHS for anything other than emergency treatment, in fact none of you could.

The OP would be entitled to family tax credit (if working 16hrs a week)(salary topped up to 16kgbp/year)

Child benefit for all three children (40GBP/week) this will still be paid if you subsequently leave the UK, no way to cancel it.

School and NHS for all three children (if he tells all officials he intends to stay in the UK).

You're wrong on the Child Benefit. - It can definitely be cancelled - I did it when we moved out to Thailand originally.

Admittedly I also sent in our NHS cards to say we'd emigrated, but that didn't stop the GP sending reminders to my wife for smear tests to our old address.

However, we did always go back at least once every 2 years - so my wife kept her ILR status. (I knew an Indian guy who was working in Tokyo who literally flew back for 3 days every two years to keep his ILR status valid... because of the hassle in renewing it compared to the ease of booking flights.)

[7by7]

<snip>

However, we did always go back at least once every 2 years - so my wife kept her ILR status. (I knew an Indian guy who was working in Tokyo who literally flew back for 3 days every two years to keep his ILR status valid... because of the hassle in renewing it compared to the ease of booking flights.)

You should be aware that if an ILR holder lives outside the UK and uses their ILR for visits and this becomes apparent to immigration on their arrival at a UK port of entry, then they will be questioned as to their intentions and if they fail to satisfy immigration that they are entering the UK to resume residence then their ILR will be cancelled.

Though they would be allowed in as a visitor on that occasion, they would need the appropriate visa to enter the UK subsequently.

[7by7]

<snip>

Child benefit for all three children (40GBP/week) this will still be paid if you subsequently leave the UK, no way to cancel it.

You're wrong on the Child Benefit. - It can definitely be cancelled - I did it when we moved out to Thailand originally......

Not only can it be cancelled, you must tell them if leaving the UK for more than 8 weeks.

How long you'll still receive it for, if at all, depends on the reasons for leaving the UK and length of absence.

Child Benefit if you leave the UK

[Marco71]

Hey Guys, thanks for all the input and some interesting points / banter; for our situation it's a lot less complex, we've no intention of 'claiming' it was just really a go back, visitor visa for the wife, see a sick relative and if the job offer I've got seems worth it, perhaps we'll stay and zip back to Thailand within the required time (6 mths) to arrange the wife's settlement visa and bingo. Luckily enough for us, all the relevant docs, financial and housing support will be there for the wife's visitor visa and, as said, if the job offer or rather the job itself suits what I want, then so also will be all the requirements for the wife's settlement visa should we return to Thailand to sort out the settlement visa. But all of your input is appreciated and will be reviewed. I'll post any developments of interest on here as/if they arise in the meantime. Kind regards to all, Marco

[Jay Sata]

<snip>

Child benefit for all three children (40GBP/week) this will still be paid if you subsequently leave the UK, no way to cancel it.

You're wrong on the Child Benefit. - It can definitely be cancelled - I did it when we moved out to Thailand originally......

Not only can it be cancelled, you must tell them if leaving the UK for more than 8 weeks.

How long you'll still receive it for, if at all, depends on the reasons for leaving the UK and length of absence.

Child Benefit if you leave the UK

So are the DWP checking all the new Euro migrants who check in,claim and return home?

I doubt it.

While ex pats trying to return home have a hard time the new migrants with no documentation claim asylum.

Best bet is UK ex pats claim asylum as they can suggest they are threatened by lack of Thai free speech and non settlement criteria.

The les majeste route springs to mind.

Edited June 6, 2015 by Jay Sata

[dbrenn]

This is part of a response I recently received from the DoH

More generally, anyone who lives outside this country for more than six months is no longer automatically entitled to free NHS hospital treatment. If the person is away on, for example, a one-off extended holiday, then they will continue to be fully entitled to free hospital treatment as soon as they return to live permanently in the UK. They will then be ordinarily resident again.

Whilst the Department is aware that many UK nationals living overseas still consider themselves to be UK residents, sometimes even maintaining accommodation here, someone who regularly and routinely spends the majority of each year settled in a residence outside the UK cannot legitimately be considered as being ordinarily resident here.

Right - new rule. Only residents of the UK have access to the NHS. Expatriates no longer qualify.

Edited June 7, 2015 by dbrenn

[maprao]

NHS has deteriorated to such an extent that having access is not worth it anyway. Better health care in Thailand or the rest of Europe.

[sandyf]

the Standard Visit Visa has replaced, general and family visit visa categories.

What do you actually mean? My wife has recently applied and got a family visitor visa.

[7by7]

the Standard Visit Visa has replaced, general and family visit visa categories.

What do you actually mean? My wife has recently applied and got a family visitor visa.

It is a very recent change which combined several different visit visa categories into one.

Your wife must have applied for her family visit visa before the change.

Standard Visitor visa

You can apply for a Standard Visitor visa if you want to visit the UK:

• for leisure, eg on holiday or to see your family and friends
• for business, or to take part in sports or creative events
• for another reason, eg to receive private medical treatment

Edited to add quote of preceding post as gone over page.

Edited June 7, 2015 by 7by7

[sandyf]

Very recent indeed, the visa was applied for on 27th April and issued on the 29th.

Edit.

Just checked the application form, same as when my wife did it. The various visa categories still exist, embedded in a standard form.

Select Visa Type

Please select the correct visa category. When you select the visa category you want, we will ask you a series of questions to ensure you are applying for the correct visa.

Reason for Visit

-- Select a Reason --VisitStudyWorkSettlementTransitOtherExempt *

Visa Type

-- Select a Visa Type --Diplomatic / Official VisitorGeneral VisitorBusiness VisitorEntertainer VisitorFamily VisitorSpecial VisitorSports VisitorOther *

Visa Sub Type

-- Select a Visa Sub Type --(Family) Long term Visitor Visa (1 Year)(Family) Long term Visitor Visa (10 Year)(Family) Long term Visitor Visa (2 Year)(Family) Long term Visitor Visa (5 Year)(Family) Single, double and multiple, valid up to 6 months *

This visa is intended for applicants wanting to visit close family members.

Edited June 7, 2015 by sandyf
Uneccesary follow on quote removed

[7by7]

I think, but am not certain, that it changed sometime in May.

The UKVI page I linked to was last updated 21st May 2015.

[theoldgit]

The changes were due to be implemented for applications made online on or after 24th April.

But let's not dwell on it, as I have said the Standard Visa has now replaced the Family Visitor visa and, as a matter of interest, also the General Visitor, Child Visitor, Business Visitor, including visas for academics, doctors and dentists, Sports Visitor, Entertainer Visitor, Prospective Entrepreneur,

Private Medical Treatment Visitor and approved Destination Status (ADS) visas.

The changes were advised, and discussed, on TV earlier in the year.

[Thongkorn]

NHS has deteriorated to such an extent that having access is not worth it anyway. Better health care in Thailand or the rest of Europe.

Actually one of the best if not the best health care in the World, You talk out your rectum.