Governor under fire as rains bring Bangkok to a standstill

[MaxLee]

Thais always want to run before they can walk. Building mega malls. But not removing rubbish from klongs. Everything is for show. But the basics are forgotten. And the big flood is coming one day.

It'll come sooner than we all expect it,...

[abitmiffed]

Here's something which would help a little bit: Intersections with dedicated right turn signals/lanes.

4-way intersections in Thailand only allow one lane to move at any one time. If there were dedicated right turn lanes, along with traffic lights with right-turn arrows (red and green), then TWO/OPPOSING LANES COULD MOVE CONCURRENTLY.

Traffic lights are not needed on lightly used side roads. That would ease traffic flow along busier lanes. I've seen, in Thailand and Burma, intersections where traffic lights have been installed - where there are almost no vehicles coming in from small side roads. The main road might have 50 vehicles/minute whereas the side road may have one motorbike/minute.

Similarly, with T-junctions. The top of the T should have a lane which is always open for moving traffic. The traffic lights could keep changing as before, and the open lane would not interfere - and would, of course, keep traffic moving non-stop in that one direction.

My former town, in California, had zero traffic lights. Population: about 200,000. Granted, a lot smaller than Bkk, but not smaller than many towns in Thailand which have dozens of traffic lights. A key factor: decency by drivers, and willingness to stop at stop signs. The same town had zero fast-food franchises, but that's a different topic.

Yeah great in theory however remove the lights and it's a free for all road carnage. They even fitted countdown numbers for the less than average brain cell. And they still don't wait.

Basically this country is in the shit and NO ONE can fix it.

[English 1]

Because the Defunct sewers are inadequate and are blocked by garbage, rats and cockroaches!

[Homeropec]

Sukhumbhand Paribatra is more powerful than the rich soldier... he won't dare even to challenge Sukhumbhand.

"Please replace them with efficient, experienced and knowledgeable persons," the association said in the statement" : What????? Who the hell are those people

[duidui45]

Very informative and well written,thank you very much sir..Have a good day.

They should do what KL did with the underground flood tunnels that when not in use for that double as traffic routes easing congestion on the roads.

Impossible. KL is on average just under 22m above sea level. Bangkok is on average 1.5 m above sea level with sections at or below sea level.

KL and Bangkok have very different soil characteristics. Bangkok was a natural wetland/swamp that was built over. It has a layer of clay over water. Not the best soil for drainage properties or supporting structures without risk of subsidence.

KL had a strong base of limestone for 1/2 the city and much of the key business areas and sedimentary rock and sand in the Kenny Hills formation. Your tunnel proposal makes use of two holding ponds and they are an integral part of the flood diversion plan because the water has to be held somewhere and then slowly drained. There is nowhere to build drainage ponds in Bangkok. As well, the elevation of Bangkok would preclude the natural elevation drainage method of KL.

The people of Bangkok need to understand that they are living in a place where they do not belong. The swamp land was reclaimed centuries ago for farming use. The structures and drainage was built for farming, not high density urban living. There is no way to save Bangkok unless large portions of the city are given up to build proper drainage and protection structures. None of the land owners will ever agree to that. It's easier to blame the governor than to accept that Bangkok is several million people too large. In 50 years, as the city floods worsen maybe the people will get it. By then the BMA will hold 15-20 million people and they will have to go somewhere.

Thank you.... good piece of writing.

[ezzra]

This is utterly unacceptable and ridicules that one session of hard rain brought the capital

to a stand still for most of the day,

I was driving out bound on Rama II yesterday morning and I have witnessed the ' grandmother'

of all traffic jam on the inbound lane of the freeways, like 10 km long, solid jam, I could fee

the hopelessness and the frustrations of those derivers stuck there with no where to go, no U turn,

no nothing, just sitting there for hours....

[ratcatcher]

I realy hope the floods get sorted in Bangkok, then the thais would not come to Pattaya and buy the condos, and coming here at weekend, gridlocking our roads too,.

".....then the thais would not come to Pattaya and buy the condos, and coming here at weekend, gridlocking our roads too,."

Yes, damn it, those pesky Thais wanting to enjoy Pattaya, after all, one would wish they would stay in their own country not bothering the thousands of happy farangs. Only farangs and Chinese should be admitted to that lovely town.

[buhi]

Fortunately last nights downpour wasn't anywhere as large as Mondays

Not sure. From where I live (Khet Dusit in Bangkok) last night sounded like heavier rain than the night before. Started arounf 1:30AM and went on and off for a few hours.

I think it was more localised. I live near Bang Na and last night I heard the thunder and it rained briefly.

Many good points on this thread.

[spidermike007]

Now if only half of those who chose to drive their private cars, mostly one person per vehicle, in the city were to leave them at home and use public transport then, rain or not, the traffic congestion would be sorted.

All that lovely desperately needed water going to waste, what would those in the drought areas give for good downpours like that ?

Anyone who can come up with a method of efficiently moving water to where it is needed will be a national hero.

And a very rich man. Water is the clear gold of the future. The drought on the west coast of the US is so bad, if things do not improve, or they do not get serious about desalination soon, California may start to be abandoned within a decade or so. We may see water prices of 50 cents per gallon in our lifetime in some drought affected areas. My guess is that people will choose to leave their pools empty and will take sponge baths at that rate.

And as far as finding competent replacement for the current governor, where would you look for one? Where are the competent leaders hiding these days?

[Guest]

I realy hope the floods get sorted in Bangkok, then the thais would not come to Pattaya and buy the condos, and coming here at weekend, gridlocking our roads too,.

You honestly believe that these are in any way shape or form ... related?

" ... gridlocking our roads too,.." PRICELESS !!!!

[NongKhaiKid]

With the rainy season in the early days this is just a taste of what's to come and worse.

All that can be expected is fine words and excuses plus the annual " we must make sure this never happens again " because we can be sure little has been done in the way of preparation or prevention.

It will be the usual ' fire brigade ' response as the problem unfolds.

Edited June 9, 2015 by NongKhaiKid

[luckyman]

"Ironically, as flooding wreaked havoc in the capital, Sukhumbhand and his deputies were in the Netherlands inspecting a water-drainage system."

so he does have a vision, hope he learned a lot there in my home country and will use it to his best to help his BKK citizens...

[Guest]

Several good postings have been made and one of the key points in them is that Bangkok is ... in some places ... below sea level (water needs to be pumped UP to get out.

And the remainder is about one meter above sea level.

The problem is physics. It takes time to drain a nearly flat city with no slope to run the water off.

Replacing the Governor at the start of every rainy season?? .. well ,, better get a truck load of them.

My gues is, the team in charge of this looks at it and says "We do not know when the probem will start. We can not exhaust our "clean the klong" funds betting on the rain season, only to have them stuffed and no funds to clean them when the REAL monsoons roll in."

It is like this in the snow country in the USA. They do not gravel or salt the roads on some predetermined day and hope it snows. They tackle the problem in real time, and "keep their powder dry" for when the real snow season begins.

So now that mother nature has given BKK a good hose down and flush, this is the time to now clean up the garbage and plants clogging the escape routes for the water.

Welcome to a city, that was never designed to be a city, one meter above sea level, and sinking at the same time. This is not "Thianess" or stupid.

Look at Venice, or New Orleans or other fabulous cities in the same predicament.

And please do not pull out the "Dutch" card .. they had the foresight and luxury to PLAN every cubic meter of land under management. I know little of their weather, but doubt they have monsoon conditions that can compare with the tropics.

[Yunla]

I agree with the earlier posts about the importance of renovating and clearing the drainage infrastructure. But the posts I agreed most with, and which I consider to be the most critically important, are the posts relating to cars versus public transport. The cars model of commuting is unsustainable, and based on the sales of cars and not the use of cars, the use of cars line actually stops entirely when mapped against the urban population growth line. People are being sold a dream which does not function in waking reality. This is of course a worldwide issue, and has been discussed for fifty years. People need to be sold the idea that commuting in cars is not a badge of success, and that public transport is not a badge of failure. This is the job of government, to constantly upgrade and prioritise public transportation, and to sell the shiny new travel options to commuters, as a badge of success. Many people already see that sitting in miles of gridlock is the true badge of failure, but in many areas they feel that public transport options are either too weak, or simply non-existent. Blaming rain for miles of gridlock is just ridiculous, when the real issue is modes of transportation.

[Lupatria]

"We have been in contact with the BMA Drainage and Sewerage Department."

In which hotel was it? And how was the lunch?

[jumbo]

Now if only half of those who chose to drive their private cars, mostly one person per vehicle, in the city were to leave them at home and use public transport then, rain or not, the traffic congestion would be sorted.

All that lovely desperately needed water going to waste, what would those in the drought areas give for good downpours like that ?

Anyone who can come up with a method of efficiently moving water to where it is needed will be a national hero.

It's called canals....no need to applaud...

[DM07]

Did anybody already blame Yingluck for it?

[brewsterbudgen]

Did anybody already blame Yingluck for it?

Of course! Post #13

[Guest]

I agree with the earlier posts about the importance of renovating and clearing the drainage infrastructure. But the posts I agreed most with, and which I consider to be the most critically important, are the posts relating to cars versus public transport. The cars model of commuting is unsustainable, and based on the sales of cars and not the use of cars, the use of cars line actually stops entirely when mapped against the urban population growth line. People are being sold a dream which does not function in waking reality. This is of course a worldwide issue, and has been discussed for fifty years. People need to be sold the idea that commuting in cars is not a badge of success, and that public transport is not a badge of failure. This is the job of government, to constantly upgrade and prioritise public transportation, and to sell the shiny new travel options to commuters, as a badge of success. Many people already see that sitting in miles of gridlock is the true badge of failure, but in many areas they feel that public transport options are either too weak, or simply non-existent. Blaming rain for miles of gridlock is just ridiculous, when the real issue is modes of transportation.

Thank you .. good stuff .. and accurate. There is only so much of anything that can be pushed through a pipe .. and only so many cars that can fill a city. there is a breaking point. We are at it.

What I wanted to add was that the least BKK can do is create a tax on large SUV types that clog the roads so quickly. Just stand on any BKK over pass at rush hour, and watch everything, including the uber efficient motorbikes...get log jammed behind them.

That is one piece of "look at how successful" I am BS that needs to be nipped in the bud. These urban turds that clog everything have paralyzed many American downtown grids .. and their roads were built over sized to begin with !

Smaller efficient cars allow traffic to flow. They allow for more parking spaces. They use less fuel. They make sense.

If you could wave a magic wand and every vehicle in BKK was transformed into a Mini ... you wuld buy 5 more years to tackle the problem.

[brfsa2]

How can that guy still be a governor until today?

Cant wait for him to get fired, what a corrupt. cant get anything done on this city...

Edited June 9, 2015 by brfsa2

[Artisi]

They should do what KL did with the underground flood tunnels that when not in use for that double as traffic routes easing congestion on the roads.

Impossible. KL is on average just under 22m above sea level. Bangkok is on average 1.5 m above sea level with sections at or below sea level.

KL and Bangkok have very different soil characteristics. Bangkok was a natural wetland/swamp that was built over. It has a layer of clay over water. Not the best soil for drainage properties or supporting structures without risk of subsidence.

KL had a strong base of limestone for 1/2 the city and much of the key business areas and sedimentary rock and sand in the Kenny Hills formation. Your tunnel proposal makes use of two holding ponds and they are an integral part of the flood diversion plan because the water has to be held somewhere and then slowly drained. There is nowhere to build drainage ponds in Bangkok. As well, the elevation of Bangkok would preclude the natural elevation drainage method of KL.

The people of Bangkok need to understand that they are living in a place where they do not belong. The swamp land was reclaimed centuries ago for farming use. The structures and drainage was built for farming, not high density urban living. There is no way to save Bangkok unless large portions of the city are given up to build proper drainage and protection structures. None of the land owners will ever agree to that. It's easier to blame the governor than to accept that Bangkok is several million people too large. In 50 years, as the city floods worsen maybe the people will get it. By then the BMA will hold 15-20 million people and they will have to go somewhere.

Remember, TIT and logic don't mix.

Easy solution is to ban any further major building development and give financial support for people, business, etc to re-locate elsewhere and return the swamp to a swamp and farming land. There is plenty of space in the north where flooding wouldn't be a problem - a few satellite cities well planned for the future wouldn't go astray. Oop's that's the alarm clock, time to wake up.

[balford]

The drains have been cleaned ad nauseum but why blame the ones who throw the garbage into the Klongs, onto the streets and build shanties on the river banks and Klongs when you can blame someone as a political stunt? In Australia it's called cutting down the tall poppie.

These so-called social media aces and bar stool philosophers should blame the Somchais and Somchits who cause the blocked drains and watercourses instead of cherry picking for the easiest target.

End of rant.

Bob A. Relaxed in Lampang

[buhi]

This is not a new problem; Bangkok floods.

Historically, Bangkok is a new city and has been built on a flood plain. Marsh in fact.

I, as readers of my posts should be aware, have lived here for a very long time.

I sent as a present to a friend a signed photograph, taken in about 1920 of Hua Lampong, ( no I did not take it, not that old)

of boats ferrying people out of the station as the flood waters were high.

Once at this time of year I was staying in a hotel in downtown Bangkok, with my now wife. It was flooded outside and I knew her parents were probably inundated.

Asked a taxi to take us to Bang Na.

Impossible he said, you need a boat not a car!

Another time caught out by flash floods in the Klong Toey area, got a taxi, but sad to say it was a bit old and not well maintained; within minutes full of water. The nice driver apologised.

"What for?"I said,You were kind enough to try to get us home."

I am English and recall a sudden blizzard and being stuck for hours in the snow.

Did make it home eventually, but was then snowed in for four days.

Blaming the governor is petty and stupid.

Our Dutch friends have better solutions.

Edited June 9, 2015 by buhi

[Just1Voice]

My gut feeling is that this Monsoon season is going to be a particularly bad one. El Nino is off to a very strong start his year, already recording record high winds and storms in the Pacific. This does not bode well for Thailand, and especially for BKK. I live in Chiang Mai, and in the past 2 weeks we've had a couple of major storms that hit early in the season. Is this a sign of things to come? Who can say. All I know for sure is that I'd rather be here, in the mountainous north, than the swamp land of BKK.

Edited for spelling.

Edited June 9, 2015 by Just1Voice

[FredNL]

"The statement suggested that they could be removed by either the National Council for Peace and Order chief, Prime Minister General Prayut Chan-ocha, or Interior Minister General Anupong Paochinda.

"Please replace them with efficient, experienced and knowledgeable persons," the association said in the statement."

Not the electorates choice then?

So the replacement must be a foreigner. No doubt about it !!!

BTW: The Dutch also know how to swim as they have been taught at the average age of 5. The Thai only copy doggy style (swimming) on a chair...

Edited June 9, 2015 by FredNL

[stoli]

Now if only half of those who chose to drive their private cars, mostly one person per vehicle, in the city were to leave them at home and use public transport then, rain or not, the traffic congestion would be sorted.

All that lovely desperately needed water going to waste, what would those in the drought areas give for good downpours like that ?

Anyone who can come up with a method of efficiently moving water to where it is needed will be a national hero.

Just to understand you then. If only half the cars were on the road, the remaining cars would then be able to navigate through 50 cm of water?

[buhi]

My gut feeling is that this Monsoon season is going to be a particularly bad one. El Nino is off to a very strong start his year, already recording record high winds and storms in the Pacific. This does not bode well for Thailand, and especially for BKK. I live in Chiang Mai, and in the past 2 weeks we've had a couple of major storms that hit early in the season. Is this a sign of things to come? Who can say. All I know for sure is that I'd rather be here, in the mountainous north, than the swamp land of BKK.

Edited for spelling.

We built our house here in the Bang Na area, and it is Thai style, high above most flood levels. If we get flooded here, then goodness help the rest of Bangkok.

One thing that always amazes me, Chinese/Thai shop houses are below street level in many instances.

You step down to enter them, yes even in Sukumwit, which always floods.

You need to climb up to enter our house!

[jvs]

Yes easy to blame the big guy,but what would your city of choice look like after 150mm. of rain?

I would hate to be downtown Amsterdam after that much rain,it would be chaos.

[northernphil]

Governor under fire. Best place to be ,in the warm and dry. Hey, at least he was in the Netherlands and thinking about the problem and not on a junket. Oh and why do I find Asoke a funny word when it pours with rain ? Oh and why do I find miles of traffic jams in BKK amusing ? Rhetorical. I live in the far north ,don't see a traffic jam from one year to the next. I will go now .

[kannot]

Huh no one to blame but the glorious Thai people, filling their canals with crap and building on them.....is the penny dropping for them yet? doubt it